Bluecat Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I am getting a bit confused on that question as probably many are. I know there are rules but rules are not that well defined. For me, at least, this forum should be both informative and entertaining. Of course, if everybody can understand informative, all of us do not have the same definition of entertaining,... And it results in some clashes with the admin that should not happen. Moderating does not mean censoring whatever is not to the liking of the admin. In my book, anyway,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Censoring? How/where is censoring, or are you talking about when members stick it into admins personally? Very few threads are eradicated, some are moved to be discussed among admins, some are moved to prevent flame wars. They are then either moved bck or allowed to die. IT/Mover (Shaking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 Censoring? How/where is censoring, or are you talking about when members stick it into admins personally? Like some of us stick it to ANYBODY writing in this forum. I know, it is stupid and not so nice but entertaining, sometimes,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 What should be moderated: First off, why don't we start w/avatars giving us the "Finger" when we open a thread. Don't know about y'all but I find that offensive. As for the rest for what is inappropriate, check the Rules List. That just about covers it all... Boon Mee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatter than harry Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Surely you just have to go along with the few simple rules. I fell foul of the don't bag a forum spons*r rule when I first joined and whilst I can clearly see the logic in that, it becomes a different story when the sponsor is writing his own mini rantettes in the forum and no one has any comeback, but you know, just makes me want to make enough money so that I can sponsor the forum myself one day I always thought the gentleman added to the forum in his own way but I never ventured into the bearpit, but threatening PM's to other forum member's if thats true is pretty crazy, bless 'im. GP however should just cool it off for a bit and stop gloating, IMHO. I can't quite get to grips with Bronco though, what the devil is the constant snide remarks and bold it-in-the-middle-of-a-word type sh1t all about? Nothing was done to him, right? and he's been here a long time, I don't get it. This forum's like being invited to a friends house, as long as you don't smash stuff up with a hammer or dance around in flippers throwing monkey sh1t at the walls, you'll be welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 So what do you want Bart? A medal? Also it's "KNOW" not "now" in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 being banned or otherwise censored is a badge of honour on this forum...curious that it is another newbie blowin' his wad in this regard... I am all for liberal access to thaivisa but when we get a deluge of newbies and their bullshite perhaps a screening process is in order..."have you ever belonged to security services in the US or Israel?...would you be upset if during an exchange of opinion that you disagreed with you would retort with meaningless polls and abuse directed at the administrators...etc' I've been banned/censored and this site is OK with me...those that got a problem keep you heads firmly up your butts and start your own forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Why can't we all just get along and sing some "Kumbaya" songs together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 boon...I got kicked outta boy scouts for stealing cigs from the scout master so that campfire stuff don't do nothin' for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Moderating does not mean censoring whatever is not to the liking of the admin. Generally said, out of my own experience, I am against any form of banning users permanently and without any chance of a comeback of a forum. If the administrator finds something intolerable offensive, he should delete it and should write an explication for the readers of the forum, why this had to be done by his view of opinion. Bluecat: I agree with your opinion, however all in all I found the owners/administrators of the Thaivisa-Forum very liberal, this is also the reason I am posting now at this forum. I can assure you, that some other forums I visited, are much more single-sided and censored by the administrators. They just delete any posting, they do not like personally and ban any user, who does not agree with their opinion about the subject and this suddenly, without any warning. This happened also to me in two cases: One forum was called - Amptoons Alas a blog - and was discussing how to restrict marriages between white US citizen with foreign (especially Asian) women. I am against such a kind of restrictions of any form. Radical feminists there were immediately using abusive words against my person, followed by insulting arguments of a racist Chinese man. Banned was only I, (and some other people, who were sharing my opinion). Of course the other side continued to post without any restrictions by the administrator. You can read some of the replies I received on my webpage (radical feminist) - These were not simple bad words, but racist and deeply insulting statements against my person. The other forum was called Planet of Love (or similar like that), members mostly white US-citizen married to Asian women. Indeed, there were some really nice people there, however they were the small minority. I was immediately attacked by some posters as I am not an US citizen, not native English speaker and I am not a conservative Christian, and when I replied to a poster, who was insulting Thailand as the country, which is promoting child-sex, I was banned and all my postings (many which had nothing to do with that subject at all) were erased. Two members were posting some understandings for my opinion, and within some hours, also their postings were deleted. And this was my reply, why I was banned: I wrote, that Thailand does not tolerate child-misuse and that there are high prison sentences on that. I also said, that Thailand is open for nightlife otherwise and that I enjoy it, as I am not really a faithful husband, but for me a bar-girl is 20+ with a Thai ID card. The poster, who was calling me a pervert and a Hitler and an Aids-carrier, (beside some other insultations) was not banned - banned was only I for promoting sex with prostitutes. I say it again, I am not against moderating, which means for me to be guided by an experienced person on a certain subject - but I am absolutely against banning forum-users without any explication and warning, I am against editing and erasing of postings, because the administrator has a different opinion on the subject, or does not like the user personally because of his nationality or his way of life. Johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazingthaigirl Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 hi tutsi, as you probably guess this is just an alias of zendesigner. You may or may not like my views but i'll tell you what happened. I posted a negative comment about thailand and plastic surgery to warn people about the dangers off having surgery here, one was an own personal experience, the other a rapport i saw on thai tv some days earlier. i was jumped on by Mr prick pong again (happened two weeks before also) whe i replied " here's the onliner again" he deleted the post and took away my posting rights. I received no explanation as to date, no story about how long this is gonna take, no comment from other moderators. Not on this matter or on the one from two weeks ago. This thing is purely based on a personal disliking of the Dr. It's easy to dislike something and then when you get a reply use your litlle delete button , because you are so powerfull. I personally contacted ###### where i basically got the answer "you are to negative about thailand" Be that as it may in your opinion , i'm entitled to mine about certain things. I've been a member for over a year and have spent hours putting into this stuff over the last months. Not alone the last two weeks i spent over 15 hours adding my thread about cooking witch you know. You don't have to agree with my views nor do you have to like them , you probably not even have to like me. Having post deleted because the admin doesn't really like them has become a basic flaw here and i wonder why people should put in the time and effort to help grow a forum where the admins and owner get benefits from advertising and sales, and the posters can be deleted anytime. I didn't flame nobody , i didn't start american hate topics, i didn't even talk to Dr prick Pong for over a year. I posted a negative and in your face view of plastic surgery in thailand.... I think TOxin style censorship has arrived at thaivisa.com to uplift the ego of a few , who not even have the decency to give a funded contra argument. (see it's comments below) for all i care they can delete all my posts, this one to, they sure have the "delete button for that" Maybe we should need a moderator for the moderators. Everybody can take his own conclusion. Your eventual say in matters here in my opinion is non-existent. UP 2 people if they want to run the same risk as me. i have one conclusion " your post are worthless here, don't put in the time" Zen by the way: read this quick cause it's gonna dissapear also probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 hi tutsi,as you probably guess this is just an alias of zendesigner. You may or may not like my views but i'll tell you what happened. I posted a negative comment about thailand and plastic surgery to warn people about the dangers off having surgery here, one was an own personal experience, the other a rapport i saw on thai tv some days earlier. i was jumped on by Mr prick pong again (happened two weeks before also) whe i replied " here's the onliner again" he deleted the post and took away my posting rights. I received no explanation as to date, no story about how long this is gonna take, no comment from other moderators. Not on this matter or on the one from two weeks ago. This thing is purely based on a personal disliking of the Dr. It's easy to dislike something and then when you get a reply use your litlle delete button , because you are so powerfull. I personally contacted ###### where i basically got the answer "you are to negative about thailand" Be that as it may in your opinion , i'm entitled to mine about certain things. I've been a member for over a year and have spent hours putting into this stuff over the last months. Not alone the last two weeks i spent over 15 hours adding my thread about cooking witch you know. You don't have to agree with my views nor do you have to like them , you probably not even have to like me. Having post deleted because the admin doesn't really like them has become a basic flaw here and i wonder why people should put in the time and effort to help grow a forum where the admins and owner get benefits from advertising and sales, and the posters can be deleted anytime. I didn't flame nobody , i didn't start american hate topics, i didn't even talk to Dr prick Pong for over a year. I posted a negative and in your face view of plastic surgery in thailand.... I think TOxin style censorship has arrived at thaivisa.com to uplift the ego of a few , who not even have the decency to give a funded contra argument. (see it's comments below) for all i care they can delete all my posts, this one to, they sure have the "delete button for that" Maybe we should need a moderator for the moderators. Everybody can take his own conclusion. Your eventual say in matters here in my opinion is non-existent. UP 2 people if they want to run the same risk as me. i have one conclusion " your post are worthless here, don't put in the time" Zen by the way: read this quick cause it's gonna dissapear also probably. I did not read your original posting, but we will see, what is happening with this post. Generally, as I said several times, compared to other forums, Thaivisa-Forum moderators seem to me rather liberal ...... I am against banning any person permanently without warning and explication - if really done, it is a kind of censorship. I think however, you should not post as an Anonymous using various nicknames, you should make your own homepage with your own true identity and your opinion on it. On your homepage for sure, you might post, whatever you like. I was banned from 2 sites without any proper justified reason - so I know, what I am talking about. It is not possible to ban me however from my own homepages. I made my own homepages..... Johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Yeah, there's a severe lack of nice & fluffy these days & I got a question: How come you gotta give the rest of us the finger, bud? If you're pissed at the IT Man, PM him with your finger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamphun Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 There seem's to be a minor problem with one moderator who tends to get involved in arguements instead of staying "above the fray". If he wants to do this he should refrain from falling back on his moderator position when somebody disagrees with him. To lower himself into the forum he should make a new moniker. We'd all no/know who he was as he has a certain style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 There seem's to be a minor problem with one moderator who tends to get involved in arguements instead of staying "above the fray".If he wants to do this he should refrain from falling back on his moderator position when somebody disagrees with him. To lower himself into the forum he should make a new moniker. We'd all no/know who he was as he has a certain style. It does get hard to put up with some members Lamphun. Particularly when they personally attack admins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 My 2 bahts worth. Every few weeks, it becomes fashionable to kick one or the other of Doc, or myself, personally. I don't like it. Posts rarely get deleted unless they are abusive (Dr Prick Pong springs to mind as an example of that), or a member suddenly decides to ride me for a decision. Lamphun, why don't you pop back over the last few weeks and note how many posts were deleted by myself or the doc, which were not a personal insult to either me or someone else? Go through this forum and see how many posts were pro this or that, and are still there, even though I can assure you I disagree with many things written. As to Zen/Thaigirl and his plastic surgery issue, he did not post anything which was informative, he posted a personal view of something he has absolutely zero knowledge of, and is unlikely to get any knowledge of, in the near future. As he reported, the view taken was, and I happen to agree, that many of his postings were reflecting (accurately), his extremely negative view of Thailand, and its' capacity to provide services, which many people here do use very successfully. Many of you are aware of my own experience of the Medical Culture of Thailand, and the fact that while it is not available to everyone, for various reasons, it is available in general, and is quite good. The original poster was asking about something which is in fact not even plastic surgery, but Lasik Surgery, which Zen/Thaigirl is unlikely to ever use, here or any where else for that matter. If he had used the system, and knew what it was, the post would have stayed, he didn't so it didn't, but it was a matter of many different aspects of the one person, all contributing to a view, which was deemed unhelpful. You may be interested to know, that more of my posts are deleted, than yours, put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamphun Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 ###### The point I was attempting to make, perhaps not very clearly, was that you should try not to get drawn into arguements. I've noticed a tendency recently for you to argue the point with a few posters, usually those who've gone a bit too far or who may in fact be trolling. You might like to give yourself another identity if you want to get down and dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 The point I was attempting to make, perhaps not very clearly, was that you should try not to get drawn into arguements. I've noticed a tendency recently for you to argue the point with a few posters, usually those who've gone a bit too far or who may in fact be trolling. You might like to give yourself another identity if you want to get down and dirty. The admins and moderators are meeting this afternoon, and I guess on the agenda is this topic, and all admins modeartors are concerned. We have to be better Admins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted March 28, 2004 Author Share Posted March 28, 2004 Bluecat:I agree with your opinion, however all in all I found the owners/administrators of the Thaivisa-Forum very liberal, this is also the reason I am posting now at this forum. I can assure you, that some other forums I visited, are much more single-sided and censored by the administrators. They just delete any posting, they do not like personally and ban any user, who does not agree with their opinion about the subject and this suddenly, without any warning. Why do I post in this forum? Same reason probably and a few other ones. But anyway, as George said, even good admin can get better and better admin make a better forum and however good this one is, it can get better,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 What should be moderated:First off, why don't we start w/avatars giving us the "Finger" when we open a thread. Don't know about y'all but I find that offensive. As for the rest for what is inappropriate, check the Rules List. That just about covers it all... Boon Mee Dealt with already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaaa Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 I am all for liberal access to thaivisa but when we get a deluge of newbies and their bullshite perhaps a screening process is in order.... life is full of paradoxes! otherwise why would it happen that somehow I always come across some bitter bored "seniors" who r obsessed with or paranoid by the imaginary idea that newbies r humting them, huh? nice phrase: "deluge of newbies"! as if jumping into catergory of "senior" automatially liberates one from deluge and cleans their mouth of bulls*** but well, I guess I shouldn't bother about such outbusrts of snobism (or something more radical?) - after all I'm already "ADVANCED" huh? according to the logic of those "seniors" - I'm already pure of "deluge" - am I not, if there is no word stiking leprosy of word newbies under my ID ! so I don't need to be afraid to get "screened", right?? lucky enough tutsi isn't Admin yet - otherwise he would find some other ways nevertheless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaaaaa Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 I've been banned/censored and this site is OK with me... ALL GLORY to self-proclaimed hero of Thaivisa Forum! the victim of genoside of cruel Admins and tireless warrior-fighter with deluded newbies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 What should be moderated:First off, why don't we start w/avatars giving us the "Finger" when we open a thread. Don't know about y'all but I find that offensive. As for the rest for what is inappropriate, check the Rules List. That just about covers it all... Boon Mee Dealt with already. Thanks, IT It was rather immature - just another d**k with an attitude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gentleman Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 There seem's to be a minor problem with one moderator who tends to get involved in arguements instead of staying "above the fray".If he wants to do this he should refrain from falling back on his moderator position when somebody disagrees with him. To lower himself into the forum he should make a new moniker. We'd all no/know who he was as he has a certain style. It does get hard to put up with some members Lamphun. Particularly when they personally attack admins. Dr Pat Pong, you and ###### are also instigators in many a flame war - you seem to believe, you can say and do whatever you want to do, but when someone sticks up for them selves, you take an admin stance, when in actual fact you started it in the first place - look at your own threads/posts - you antagonise people, then they post something you dont like and so on, until it escalates into them getting banned. It seems finally that a lot of the members here are starting to speak out - it is about time, you guys were suspended from George, then maybe you will feel the frustration that we feel, for something that could of been stopped in the first instance. Look through a few threads that have been moved to this section - for 1 week, you guys and others, have had a go at me and now George has reinstated my membership you guys are having a go at me again for replying to your own flames towards me - if you dont want a "war", dont start one. You guys, need to be brought down to earth! No this isnt a flame, its my beleif and the belief of many, by how many people have pointed it out. a moderator is a position that does not give you a biased stance. I agree with you regarding myself getting out of hand on the bear pit - but go back once more and see where it started. You guys keep going on about me threatening people - the two actual posts you refer to were as follows - socal? said he would come down to Phuket and I would hide - I said come...... - who was the instigator of the first threat? Please post the so called threat against Georgie Porgie!, you will see it wasnt a threat as such, but how you guys have been talking about it, it has escalated into an untruth of what was posted. You piss people off and thats how they stay - maybe if you were doing your job properly, it wouldnt get to that. I will not return to the bear pit, I will carry on on this forum, if the powers that be let me, if not, thats life. Please just leave me alone and let me get on with it - this is my last complaint regarding admin/mods, from now on I will leave you all in peace, just leave me be also - have a nice Sunday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmnp Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 The undeniable success of thaivisa.com is largely a result of the tireless efforts of the Admins to maintain civility of tone and their extreme patience in explaining "one more time" visa requirements to nebies who are looking for a way to get around Thai law and regulations. They should be congratulated, not demeaned. Those who find fault with their decisions in doing their job should look to themselves and only if no fault lies, should a dispassionate defense of the post occur. In almost every post regarding the actions of admins, there is a tacit admission of fault by the poster. The complaint is usually about how the error was handled by the admin, not an apology for having made the error to begin with. The affronted complainers have evidently taken to heart the addage that the best defense is a strong offence and are therefore as offensive as possible. My view is that "members" are guests of the forum and the Admins are the hosts. I act accordingly, enjoy the surviving posts immensely, have learned a great deal and when attacked (rarely) by one on the "offensive", merely turn away and rely on the "hosts" to control their guests, as it is their party, not mine. If the party gets out of hand, most reasonable people will stop coming to the party and that certainly has happend on many forums. Being an admin has to be a thankless job, and I shudder to think what would happen to thaivisa.com if any one of the "complainers" ever became an Admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted March 28, 2004 Author Share Posted March 28, 2004 Hmmm, mrmnp. As much as I like Thaiforum and the way it is moderated, I would not go as far as you. NOTHING is perfect in this world and Thaivisa forum is no exception. There are destructive attacks and contructive ones. I do not think we are in a destructive path when we "complain" about what we think could be improved. Anyway, since you have been seldom attacked, I will stop here,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greattobeinthailand Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 For your information, This was the post concerned http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0entry67928 My reply to MR patpong was " here's the onliner again" Here are some other smart comments for the admins on stuff. Maybe they can read their own posts also one time. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=8157&st=0&hl= http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=75entry68548 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0entry65906 Read the post and decide if they have handled the situation correctly yourself. Zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted March 28, 2004 Author Share Posted March 28, 2004 Zen, please, do not stay into a war you can not win. Whatever you think is right or wrong, the earlier you get out of it, the better it will be,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greattobeinthailand Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Hi blue, I'm not waging a war here. I want to get my point across. since i get banned or suspended when i say something my only choice is to use this method. If i wouldn't do this nobody would even know what is happening. It's easy a an admin first to insult you, then block you and then go blabbering halftruths about why they blocked you. and then start insulting you again behind your back. In Three days i have not gotten one explanation, reason or decision from the complete moderating team on this matter. they prefer to keep silent and hope their problem which they started in the first place , will go away quietly. Well I'm not somebody that's goes away quietly. Yes i'm in your face with my opinions, yes i will not let it go without an reasonable explanation. We could do this discussion on PM but apparently they prefer not to. This is not about winning or loosing. The least you could do is enter the discussion about the problem instead of letting it escalate. So still waiting for an answer from the moderating team. Untill then everybody can learn the about current censorship attitudes developed. Zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted March 28, 2004 Author Share Posted March 28, 2004 I'm not waging a war here. I want to get my point across. That's how wars start,... But anyway, you think you are right and they think they are right. Not a good basis for a constructive discussion,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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