Jump to content
BANGKOK

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

lostinisaan

What does your new contract look like, or did they keep their promises?

Recommended Posts

I've just written my letter of resignation. Cheers-thumbsup.gif

Probably worthwhile discussing things with them rather than just quitting (Unless you have somewhere else lined up).

As I'm sure that the school will agree to stick with the same conditions as last year once they realize that you're not going to be convinced/bullied into working less.

That'd also give you more time to look for a new job for the following year, as otherwise you might end up having to accept an even worse job than your current one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So they tried to add 5 extra classes at the same pay. You refused but still got no raise. Why do you think you won? Sounds like a smart director to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So they tried to add 5 extra classes at the same pay. You refused but still got no raise. Why do you think you won? Sounds like a smart director to me.

Well, they wanted to hire two, or three new teachers for this year, but trying to give the workload to the existing staff, plus not even having the school registered at the SS office, doesn't make him to a smart director.

All the written stuff for his Doctorate was done by a Thai friend of mine and quite a few other things don't really make him to a smart guy either.

Even if I'd stay, having 20 hours a week, instead of 25, is a little victory. And I did win a lot experience for the future.

Please take a look at the other poster's contract. Mine doesn't have any of these rubbish clauses.

12 months fully paid, expenses for visa and work permit paid half by the school, all holidays and school breaks paid for, plus six personal leave days. And the parents of the EP kids seem to be of great help.

Thanks Mr. Sly, it would be damn stupid to hand in my resignation this week, there're other ways to get this sorted out. Sly,you're making less money, just because they've got a new director?

However, the kids give me more than money can buy. Even when the job seems to be pretty difficult from time to time. facepalm.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about teaching but I am definitely not gonna do it. Sounds like most schools want top quaility for the cheapest possible price. Back to Europe to make money - come to Thailand to spend it. Easier, hassle free...

Teaching can have it's frustrations, and you definitely don't make as much as working a fulltime job back in Farangland.

But it's an easy job, I usually think of it as effectively the equivalent of a part time job, which pays part time wages, while living in a country where food/rent/services are about 50% - 75% cheaper than back in Farangland. And although the frustrations at the school, along with the krusapa circus, can get you down from time to time, teaching is the most intrinsically rewarding job which I've ever had, there is simply no substitute for getting paid to do something which you love.

However, even though it's a job which we/I love, we still don't want to work for free, and we can't afford to let our employers walk all over us, else they'll keep on doing it and then we won't won't enjoy our jobs anymore. So we have to play hardball with the schools, as many of us have families to support.

For me, with a stay at home wife & young baby to support, I'd probably save less in NZ than in Thailand due to increased costs, unless of course we changed our lifestyle habits, or if my wife went out and got a job. So for me, I'm definitely happy to put up with the trials and tribulations of teaching, as it's worth it, even if I were single again, the sense of fulfillment I get from teaching kids would still trump the increased salary from my old job.

But then, I'm someone who specifically moved over here to teach, rather than simply using teaching as a means to an end, as many do. My original plan was to teach for 1 term, then if I liked it go back home and do a GradDip so I could teach in NZ. But I liked it too much here, and figured that teachers make crap money after tax back in NZ anyway lol. As they only make around two and a half times what I make here teaching, for double the work & triple the expenses lol.

I get what you mean. But you seem to really LIKE teaching. I tried it and I did NOT like it at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about teaching but I am definitely not gonna do it. Sounds like most schools want top quaility for the cheapest possible price. Back to Europe to make money - come to Thailand to spend it. Easier, hassle free...

Teaching can have it's frustrations, and you definitely don't make as much as working a fulltime job back in Farangland.

But it's an easy job, I usually think of it as effectively the equivalent of a part time job, which pays part time wages, while living in a country where food/rent/services are about 50% - 75% cheaper than back in Farangland. And although the frustrations at the school, along with the krusapa circus, can get you down from time to time, teaching is the most intrinsically rewarding job which I've ever had, there is simply no substitute for getting paid to do something which you love.

However, even though it's a job which we/I love, we still don't want to work for free, and we can't afford to let our employers walk all over us, else they'll keep on doing it and then we won't won't enjoy our jobs anymore. So we have to play hardball with the schools, as many of us have families to support.

For me, with a stay at home wife & young baby to support, I'd probably save less in NZ than in Thailand due to increased costs, unless of course we changed our lifestyle habits, or if my wife went out and got a job. So for me, I'm definitely happy to put up with the trials and tribulations of teaching, as it's worth it, even if I were single again, the sense of fulfillment I get from teaching kids would still trump the increased salary from my old job.

But then, I'm someone who specifically moved over here to teach, rather than simply using teaching as a means to an end, as many do. My original plan was to teach for 1 term, then if I liked it go back home and do a GradDip so I could teach in NZ. But I liked it too much here, and figured that teachers make crap money after tax back in NZ anyway lol. As they only make around two and a half times what I make here teaching, for double the work & triple the expenses lol.

I get what you mean. But you seem to really LIKE teaching. I tried it and I did NOT like it at all.

I love teaching Thai kids and I'm not only in for the money.

My uncle in Germany taught English all his life at a high school in Germany, until he became the principal.

I helped out from time to time, tutoring students with learning difficulties, but really never really liked it. I was in for the money only.

Some skills to become a successful can't be learned at school, you've got to have it in your blood, or you don't.

Similar to a musician, playing an instrument, in my honest and humble opinion.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go. 2 page contract. Signed recently.

I'd like opinions on this please from those who know about these things.

1) Do you see this as a 1 year contract or is April exempt as a month?

2) What months according to this contract would you expect payment to begin and end?

3) Last year the teacher in question was not paid for the 1 month school holiday. I see no mention of being paid or not during holidays. Would you expect to be paid during holidays with this contract?

Thanks.

I'm afraid to let you know that you've signed a contract I wouldn't even wipe something off with. Anyway, I'm used to a bum gun.

I've never ever seen such a for the employer negative contract in my 10 + years of teaching here. This is not a one year contract, it clearly states that you won't get paid in April.

According this contract you'll receive (or already did) the first salary on May, 5th. The last salary will be paid on the 5th of April. ( Hopefully).

You have to work illegally, because you won't get the needed paperwork until your probation is over,but it doesn't say how long the probation will be. I assume one month?

No work, no pay is very strange. If you're sick, you don't get paid. If you have to apply for a visa or work permit, you won't get paid.

It would be very easy for the agency to make something up that you broke the contract and that would bring you in deep shit.You wouldn't receive your salary and would have to pay 50 K to them.

There's no such thing as a blacklist, that they pluralized it makes it to a better joke.

If I were you, I'd immediately look for a new job, working directly for a school. Preferable a 12 months contract, SS insurance, etc..

If you're looking for one, I might be of help. ( I've got nothing to do with an agency)

If I were you, I'd run, as fast as you can. It hurts me to see such pieces of dung, and tat they call this a contract is a joke.

It's the modern form of slavery. Wish you the best. Please do not hesitate to send me a private message.

P.S. Just reading your post again, I do not think that they'l pay you for October, nor will they pay for holidays. No work no pay means all.

Get out of there, as soon as you can. Oh, and not having an insurance is a pretty fragged up situation.

Please believe a guy with an artificial knee joint.

You can easily end up in a hospital, nobody would pay the bill for you and you don't get paid.

And if that's for a few days, they'll just replace you, and/or say that you broke the rules. wai2.gif

Your views are appreciated.

I should have said that this is not my contract. It is, though, one of 3 contracts with the same wording I have seen signed very recently.

My initial reaction was one of dismay, yet these seem to be the norm with this particular agency.

There also seems to be so little information in the contract too. Most of what is there is against the teacher(s) and no mention of what the agency will pay if they (the agency) break the contract.

Your views on the blacklist are interesting.

The school itself have helped with the paperwork for the visa, the work permit and helped with immigration. The director of the school took her to sort all the paperwork out.

No salary has been paid for May 5th. I too believe she should have been paid on this date. Yet she has not worked for 2 months and it seems the clause of no work = no pay could well be the reason for this. Yet they still want their teachers bound by a contract.

All I can do is look at the responses here and advise. If my advice or suggestions are not listened too, then I can do nothing more, though I would rather be in a position to be able to offer suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so you signed the contract accepting the 5 extra hours then sent an email saying you would not honor the terms?

brilliant, you have just revolutionize the legal profession.

im going to send an email and move back into that house i just sold.

I didn't accept it, told the coordinator immediately in person and then through an e-mail that i won't do them.

But the boss already left and phone was off.And he's the guy who makes decisions.

Anyway, it wasn't the final contract, as i needed my docs to extend my visa and work permit.

The first contract stated that the five extra hours were not sure yet, so please don't try to make an idiot out of me, please.

Lostinisaan is managing to make an idiot out of himself. He doesn't need your help .

Sign a contract and then complain about its content." What a dummy"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WhamBam, I've removed the first picture, and would ask that you also please redact the name of the agency (+ director). As although your post doesn't break the rules, I have a pretty good idea of the posts to come, which will then cause this thread to breach the defamation/libel/slander laws (So by removing the names, I won't need to remove derogatory comments regarding the director/agency).

In reply to your post:

Your contract won't apply to April, so don't expect to be paid then (Your visa will likely finish on the 31st of March too btw).

Also in general, I couldn't see how much you were being paid, but assuming you're only on a standard salary (~30k per month) it's a pretty raw deal. Also it doesn't specify your contact hours, which opens you up to exploitation, as they could tell you to teach 25 or 30 periods a week, and you would just have to accept it (or quit).

Likewise the tax clause isn't clear, you likely wouldn't be required to pay any income tax (Or if you do, it'll be less than 3% of your total salary), since you're not working for a full calendar year, but 2 part years. Many teachers just do their tax manually, thus I don't know if deducting PAYE is mandatory or not for agencies, and it won't save you any extra work, as you'd need to file a tax return regardless in order to try and get a tax rebate.

The cancellation clause is pretty crap, particularly without any idea on what the working conditions or hours will be like. Also losing pay because you're sick, and not having any personal leave, is likely in contravention of Thai labour laws (And not giving you paid visa run days is simply lame).

My advice would be to apply at a government school. I know of one in RoiEt which is looking for 2x teachers for their gifted program (Or at least were looking as of last week), if you send me a PM I can put you in touch with someone from their school (From memory, 30k salary, 11 month contracts, with sickdays etc included, and the salary is negotiable if you have good qualifications/experience. Sickdays will be included, but I think it's 18 contact hours per week but am not sure about that, or about who pays for WP/Visa etc).

Apologies. I wonder if I posted the wrong first page. As the copy I intended to post has the name of the agency cropped off and the other details redacted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what Page 1 of the contract should look like - with the agency name cropped and the other details redacted.

Apologies for me not checking my original post for which Page 1 I posted.

post-214498-0-72967300-1432009620_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 month contract, no sick / personal days. The (no work, no pay) makes me wonder if you even have paid national holidays. No mention of contact hours. I don't know the salary but so far it's shaping up to be one of the shitest contracts I've ever seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 month contract, no sick / personal days. The (no work, no pay) makes me wonder if you even have paid national holidays. No mention of contact hours. I don't know the salary but so far it's shaping up to be one of the shitest contracts I've ever seen.

I haven't seen a shittier contract in my 13 + years in Thailand. It's not one of the, it's the shittiest contract, more an agreement to be a low paid? slave. There's absolutely nothing in favor of the employee.

Once you sign such a contract, they can tell you to come in every Saturday, or every second.Maybe English camps every Saturday?

Of course would the agency get paid for, but not the employee. Run, Buddy, run......blink.png

P.S. The one part that you're "paid through" doesn't automatically mean that they pay you for October. No work, no pay is a scary way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WhamBam, I've removed the first picture, and would ask that you also please redact the name of the agency (+ director). As although your post doesn't break the rules, I have a pretty good idea of the posts to come, which will then cause this thread to breach the defamation/libel/slander laws (So by removing the names, I won't need to remove derogatory comments regarding the director/agency).

In reply to your post:

Your contract won't apply to April, so don't expect to be paid then (Your visa will likely finish on the 31st of March too btw).

Also in general, I couldn't see how much you were being paid, but assuming you're only on a standard salary (~30k per month) it's a pretty raw deal. Also it doesn't specify your contact hours, which opens you up to exploitation, as they could tell you to teach 25 or 30 periods a week, and you would just have to accept it (or quit).

Likewise the tax clause isn't clear, you likely wouldn't be required to pay any income tax (Or if you do, it'll be less than 3% of your total salary), since you're not working for a full calendar year, but 2 part years. Many teachers just do their tax manually, thus I don't know if deducting PAYE is mandatory or not for agencies, and it won't save you any extra work, as you'd need to file a tax return regardless in order to try and get a tax rebate.

The cancellation clause is pretty crap, particularly without any idea on what the working conditions or hours will be like. Also losing pay because you're sick, and not having any personal leave, is likely in contravention of Thai labour laws (And not giving you paid visa run days is simply lame).

My advice would be to apply at a government school. I know of one in RoiEt which is looking for 2x teachers for their gifted program (Or at least were looking as of last week), if you send me a PM I can put you in touch with someone from their school (From memory, 30k salary, 11 month contracts, with sickdays etc included, and the salary is negotiable if you have good qualifications/experience. Sickdays will be included, but I think it's 18 contact hours per week but am not sure about that, or about who pays for WP/Visa etc).

Now with a little more time to reply....

I appreciate your diligence in noting I had not redacted the name of the agency and the ladies name in the text itself. Thanks for that.

Though I am not an English teacher, I am a qualified Rugby Union coach and have coached many children in schools. I am also an author for books aimed at children with reading difficulties.

My main interest in the English teaching here is my Filipino g/f and some other friends are English teachers. And I like to try and keep abreast of their interests and those of others, be they NES or otherwise. And discussions of this type that LostIn writes about do arise.

You make some very salient points ragards this contract and I do agree with your viewpoint.

As I said in an earlier reply to LostIn, this is not my contract, but one of 3 contracts recently signed by 3 teachers. Personally, I do believe the contracts are badly written and in the U.K. for example they could be ripped to shreds, but this is Thailand and things work differently here as many of us know.

To me, this contract does not state the teacher(s) will not be paid for the holidays, neither does it state they will be paid.

Quote - "Decuctions will be made to the teachers salary for any missed days, whatever the reason illness, personal, visa run etc. (no work no pay)."

Is a holiday a missed day? Surely not.

I am interested in the comment you made about the sick days and personal days and possibly being in contravention of the Thai labour laws.Your comment about exploitation of hours is also a good one amongst others you have made.

All in all you (we) have started something that will be being discussed over the coming days.

As an aside, the g/f has a Masters degree in Medicine. A nurse for 15 years and also a Nurse teacher. Worked in Honk Kong and China. Yet when talking to a local Memorial hospital they offered her a job as a nurse assistant!!

It seems to me people are not really valued in many ways here.

Apologies if I am seeming to encroach on LIA's topic, but this mainly being about contracts, I'm also eager to see if others respond with their views too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 month contract, no sick / personal days. The (no work, no pay) makes me wonder if you even have paid national holidays. No mention of contact hours. I don't know the salary but so far it's shaping up to be one of the shitest contracts I've ever seen.

11 month contract, no sick / personal days. The (no work, no pay) makes me wonder if you even have paid national holidays. No mention of contact hours. I don't know the salary but so far it's shaping up to be one of the shitest contracts I've ever seen.

I haven't seen a shittier contract in my 13 + years in Thailand. It's not one of the, it's the shittiest contract, more an agreement to be a low paid? slave. There's absolutely nothing in favor of the employee.

Once you sign such a contract, they can tell you to come in every Saturday, or every second.Maybe English camps every Saturday?

Of course would the agency get paid for, but not the employee. Run, Buddy, run......blink.png

P.S. The one part that you're "paid through" doesn't automatically mean that they pay you for October. No work, no pay is a scary way.

I have to agree that the wording of this contract is very much against the teacher(s). Also that there is no mention of holidays paid or not seems odd.

I have taken note of and appreciate the replies and passing on the information.

What I do find sad is this teaching job has a wonderful school director and the children are respectful (edit to say, The happiness factor of working with these children at this school is playing a big part in her wanting to work there) but the contract is - as you say - so bad. Yet this lady with a Masters degree in medicine and 15 years nursing and nurse teaching experience was only offered a nurse assistant job at a local private hospital with poor pay and even longer hours. I feel, sadly, that says a lot about many things here.

Lost, I do like your topics. They may not meet the approval of all, but they do generate discussion and that has to be a good thing. I hope your situation improves too. Many people could benefit from reading the many and varied topics on the forum from yourself and from others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, if it's in a certain area that you just have to be in that's one thing and a reason to take the contract. I don't know the particular location, but I can say that it seems schools are desperate for a native teacher, more than likely due to a great number of them leaving due to visa, work permit, general jackassery from the teachers council, etc.

I'd say that you probably have a ton of options out there for jobs, so I'd look around a bit more. Just my two cents worth on the matter, but it seems in a lot of ways a teacher's market.

By the way, awesome that you've been doing some coaching. I see sometimes that internationals are looking for help there, may be a way to ease your way into something of that nature too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the same contract every year, with a small raise each time. Everything else remains exactly the same, although they did try to get out of paying for WP and visa one time. I told them I wouldn't be renewing if that were the case. Voila, the $ for all that magically appeared.

They will try things on, and I think the only real strategy is to be calm and firm, and ready to walk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...