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lostinisaan

What does your new contract look like, or did they keep their promises?

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Gutted LostinIsaan, that they've tried to flip the tables on you.

If I were in that situation, I'd have not signed the new contract unless the additional 5 hours were changed, but I can understand not wanting to cause your guarantor any hassle etc. But as from the sounds you have a verbal agreement for the lower hours, you can probably call the school's bluff, and simply say that you'll only do it if they pay you an additional 400 THB per period* (We actually have a clause in our contract which says they have to pay us 400THB per hour over 18h). They'll back down from that, and just re-assign the lessons to someone else, and it makes you look like less of a dick than if you simply refuse to do them. Even without a similar clause in your contract, it's pretty fair to expect additional money for teaching additional hours (Although of course, you did already sign a contract with 5 additional hours).

They probably wouldn't fire you, as it'd make them look like dicks (Since they increased your hours from the previously agreed contract which is what caused the problem), and because for the time it'd take to find a replacement, they'd get some mega grief from the parents etc, since it wouldn't really be a well justified dismissal (Unless they did some good propaganda work with your signed contract).

If the school has to choose between a Filipino and a Farang teacher, they'd likely choose the Farang, as they need the prestiege (You're the only Farang there right?), and because Filipinos are much easier to find, so even rural schools will get 50+ Filipino applications if they advertise a position.

Remember as well, that regardless of what a contract says, it's all about the employer/employee relationship, and so what's in a contract isn't set in stone.

My Filipina niece just started a teaching contract in rural Satun. The school did advertise and they did not get 50+ applicants, but did get three applicants for the position she got. Hers is a 12 month contract, teaching anuban, 20 hours per week, five days sick leave, a furnished teacher's dorm room, she can have breakfast and lunch at the school, and gets paid B18k/mo.

My Filipina sister-in-law, who also teaches in Satun, but at a different school, also is on a 12month contract, makes B18k/mo for a 16 hour week teaching high school students, has Thai SS, has sick leave, has holiday pay, and is allowed to use her classroom after hours for private tutoring.

The farang teachers I know in Songkhla province average B30k, for 11 month contracts and do little better than Wham Bam's contract has shown--maybe 20 hours or more per week, no SS, no dorms, no free meals, no sick leave, no holiday pay.

It seems the Filipino teachers are getting better contracts while the farangs are fighting to keep the same old ones.

What gives with that?

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Slightly off topic but ......

I just moved the (Thai) missus from Huahin to Samui where I have been based for the past 6 months - had to wait until the end of her school year to do that.

She is a fully degree qualified specialist anubarn teacher of 15 years experience in a very highly regarded (and expensive) Catholic school in Huahin.

Applied and was accepted to an almost equally expensive Catholic school in Nathon and was offered a full 5,000 baht pay CUT for 3 months probation period, plus - teachers here are expected to buy their own supplies for the students to use - basics like paper and pencils, tissue to wipe the kids noses (remember this is anubarn 1). She actually has more experience than the department head who supervises her.

I told her that was an insult and that she should quit - but you know how loyal Thai teachers are to their students and kriengjai to the boss - she said she will wait out the 3 months for the promised pay rise and only then, if it is not acceptable, will she quit.

...... and farang bitch about their conditions .....

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Contracts.....

We hear this morning that 2 of the 5 Filipina teachers I know who signed contracts with the agency I wrote about have gone to pastures new where they get an extra 3K per month.

The penalty built into the contracts has not scared them into staying.

I'd like to add that after the discussions on here regarding how bad the contracts are, the other 3 teachers are now discussing matters on how best to approach the agency to improve matters. There are definite rumblings regarding the contracts being so unfair. They too are considering looking at moving to different schools but they want to stay in their areas where they have condos and furnishings and friends.

When it was pointed out how bad these contracts are and that they 'may' be against Thai labour law, it has given them more hope to raise the standard of their contracts too.

Discontent rose even more when they discovered that the main company in the area that funds the teachers offered 25K this year instead of the previous 17K. Yet the teachers have been offered nothing extra.

I now understand that this one large private company is the one funding the English teachers.

I'll post again if there are any more developments.

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Gutted LostinIsaan, that they've tried to flip the tables on you.

If I were in that situation, I'd have not signed the new contract unless the additional 5 hours were changed, but I can understand not wanting to cause your guarantor any hassle etc. But as from the sounds you have a verbal agreement for the lower hours, you can probably call the school's bluff, and simply say that you'll only do it if they pay you an additional 400 THB per period* (We actually have a clause in our contract which says they have to pay us 400THB per hour over 18h). They'll back down from that, and just re-assign the lessons to someone else, and it makes you look like less of a dick than if you simply refuse to do them. Even without a similar clause in your contract, it's pretty fair to expect additional money for teaching additional hours (Although of course, you did already sign a contract with 5 additional hours).

They probably wouldn't fire you, as it'd make them look like dicks (Since they increased your hours from the previously agreed contract which is what caused the problem), and because for the time it'd take to find a replacement, they'd get some mega grief from the parents etc, since it wouldn't really be a well justified dismissal (Unless they did some good propaganda work with your signed contract).

If the school has to choose between a Filipino and a Farang teacher, they'd likely choose the Farang, as they need the prestiege (You're the only Farang there right?), and because Filipinos are much easier to find, so even rural schools will get 50+ Filipino applications if they advertise a position.

Remember as well, that regardless of what a contract says, it's all about the employer/employee relationship, and so what's in a contract isn't set in stone.

My Filipina niece just started a teaching contract in rural Satun. The school did advertise and they did not get 50+ applicants, but did get three applicants for the position she got. Hers is a 12 month contract, teaching anuban, 20 hours per week, five days sick leave, a furnished teacher's dorm room, she can have breakfast and lunch at the school, and gets paid B18k/mo.

My Filipina sister-in-law, who also teaches in Satun, but at a different school, also is on a 12month contract, makes B18k/mo for a 16 hour week teaching high school students, has Thai SS, has sick leave, has holiday pay, and is allowed to use her classroom after hours for private tutoring.

The farang teachers I know in Songkhla province average B30k, for 11 month contracts and do little better than Wham Bam's contract has shown--maybe 20 hours or more per week, no SS, no dorms, no free meals, no sick leave, no holiday pay.

It seems the Filipino teachers are getting better contracts while the farangs are fighting to keep the same old ones.

What gives with that?

The whole idea of discussing contracts - for those who are doing so - is to get a better idea(s) of what is going on in various areas and schools or agencies.

The two instances you have quoted show there can be a huge gulf between what one Filipino can be offered against what others are offered. In the contract I posted it shows how bad it is in contrast to what you have quoted. Then, when others read this topic it helps them to see what differences there are.

I'd say, from what I have read in the forums, that a lot of teachers are not getting a good deal be they NES or Filipinos.

And it is good these things can be discussed. Only a shame that the schools and agencies cannot be named publicly be they good or bad.

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Yeah people will often accept very low salaries as they don't know what they're worth. Likewise they'll accept working conditions which are subpar, simply because they don't know what they should be receiving.

By sharing their experiences, it gives people a better idea on what they should expect so that they don't sell themselves short.

It's all about supply & demand though, and that varies depending on the teaching role + area. E.g. A NES teacher with BSc or BEng is in higher demand than one with just a BA or BCom etc. And in general there aren't enough NES teachers with degrees to meet the demand (Which is why people with no teaching experience can walk into a job with a higher salary than a Thai teacher with 10 years experience. With that in mind, for nonNES teachers, they need to be careful with negotiating as there is an oversupply of nonNES teachers, many of whom are willing to work for relatively low salaries & in poor working conditions because it's still a high salary compared to in their home country.

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Changed schools, F it. Lost the crazy, sleazy, pathologic liar, creepy as F teacher AND the fat red drunken sweaty splotchy teacher who hates his job and his life...as well as the jr. drunken sullen Irishman teacher. Total win.

Gained 3,500 on last year. 2,500 if pay rise given this year, 12 month contract, three addl weeks holiday, one week sick leave. Four addl personal days (5). Admin agreed to addl time off as I had air tickets already booked. We also seem to get a nice block around xmas/ny gratis.

Workload is heavy, large classes but seems the hod understands what can and cant be accomplished in huge classes. Cool. No gate duty or flag ceremony. I can leave when finished at EOD.

School is good but none can match the reputation of sch that I left. Too bad those shitty, creepy teachers are wedged in so tight. Agencies...too lulz.

Seriously...FCK agencies - go direct. Never, ever work for agencies.

All those ridiculous jobs on ajarn.com and the other crappy boards - which are even worse for jobs.

Good luck to all, now is the time to snag a job. Tell the Filipinos to grow some balls or go home.

Things look good but we will go to states if I'm not getting annual pay increases here - which the director assured me was possible.

Balls - get some

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I can something to the topic. I know of two schools. First one, Filipinos started at 30000 b. This term they just got an increase after 3 years. 12 months, have business leave, sick leave (4+5 days I think). Another one, they start with less than this but they are given extra classes so they make more than 30 0000 too - 12 months,, paid leave 5 days or 4 not sure. Classes usually in both schools without extras hours are 18-20 h per week. So yes, there are places with better conditions.

For the poster saying ... and farang bitch about their conditions.... Just because ur wife wais and bows down and accepts doesnt mean that farangs or anybody else have to do it too. She s grenjai, she s loyal... ( she just got there, and loyal to students already..)

About the naming and shaming; Its not possible to do it here but why not the someone, the poster who started this doesnt make a group message where all this can be shared and people can be added. I dont know if this can work out.

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I can something to the topic. I know of two schools. First one, Filipinos started at 30000 b. This term they just got an increase after 3 years. 12 months, have business leave, sick leave (4+5 days I think). Another one, they start with less than this but they are given extra classes so they make more than 30 0000 too - 12 months,, paid leave 5 days or 4 not sure. Classes usually in both schools without extras hours are 18-20 h per week. So yes, there are places with better conditions.

For the poster saying ... and farang bitch about their conditions.... Just because ur wife wais and bows down and accepts doesnt mean that farangs or anybody else have to do it too. She s grenjai, she s loyal... ( she just got there, and loyal to students already..)

About the naming and shaming; Its not possible to do it here but why not the someone, the poster who started this doesnt make a group message where all this can be shared and people can be added. I dont know if this can work out.

The wording of your post, that you know of.......is already enough. How much do you really know about their contracts and situation they're in?

Please be aware that a lot of people, especially foreign teaching folks who're always licking the right asses to get promoted at Thai schools, are most of the time liars and back stab others, without even thinking about it.

A guy, I had seen as a good friend over the years, I'd really helped a lot with his private problems, started teaching Anuban kids, making 15 K/month.

But then he became the head teacher of a circus.......he became such a liar and so selfish that he always told me things like: "He hired a bla bla bla.", "this guy's such a bad teacher", but when he met the particular person, he always acted like he's his best friend , of course over some beers.

He told me that he'd be on his fourth provisional TL, but I've just recently received a copy of his contract in Thai stating that the same guy's employed as a trainer.

That's not hearsay, this lie came out of the guy's own mouth. And that for already a few years, as his waiver was denied, because there's something fishy with his degree/ transcripts.

Another lesson learned the hard way. A friend who gains power and control is a friend lost. facepalm.gif

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Good to hear that you didn't end up with the additional 5 contact hours, upon initially reading that you did sign, I was expecting that they'd try to force it upon you regardless. I got my new timetable last week, and although I'm contracted for 18h per week, they've only given me 16, which has left me pretty happy (I was amazed, as I was absolutely sure they'd try and load us up with extra hours this semester, as they've dropped from 4 Farang down to 3).

Although when I went to sign my new contract this year, after taking a 1 year break, the new director (who I'd never met before & doesn't speak English), got the head of English to explain to me that they wanted me to take a pay cut, since the school's Bilingual program doesn't have as many students this year, so they don't have as much income. I decided to skip going through the translator and politely, with a smile on my face, told the director in Thai that if he changed my salary, I'd change schools, I then also pointed out that they were saving 400k THB this year by dropping down to 3 Farang teachers instead of 4, so I didn't agree with their point about not having as much money lol.

They laughed it off, and I could tell they were a bit concerned that they might have offended me. I was a little offended, but as I was laughing & smiling, they knew I wasn't too serious. They then handed me my contract to sign, which was exactly as it had been prior to my 1 year break lol (I guess they must have known there was no way I'd accept a pay cut lol).

It did leave me with a bit of a sour first impression of the new director sad.png But I'm open minded, so we'll see how our next encounter goes (I'm thinking about getting them to setup social security for me, or alternatively before I left, the old director promised us private health insurance, but I don't think it ever eventuated).

If you are working legally, this is a requirement, not an option. So either you were working illegally before, or, the school were taking the payments and not giving them to the government, but after 3 months you would have know this, as you would not have been issued your card for hospital treatment.

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If you are working legally, this is a requirement, not an option. So either you were working illegally before, or, the school were taking the payments and not giving them to the government, but after 3 months you would have know this, as you would not have been issued your card for hospital treatment.

I was working legally :) The school never deducted tax from me, but I file my tax return manually every year (Even if they make deucutions on your behalf, you should still file manually each year, just as in Farangland, else you'll usually end up overpaying your tax &/or not getting a tax refund).

And I don't have a card for hospital treatment from the school as I don't pay into social security :) I think that they're meant to either organise social security or organize private health insurance, but I was never too fussed about it & by the time they were talking about organizing it, I was just about to take a year off anyway lol.

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WhamBam, I've removed the first picture, and would ask that you also please redact the name of the agency (+ director). As although your post doesn't break the rules, I have a pretty good idea of the posts to come, which will then cause this thread to breach the defamation/libel/slander laws (So by removing the names, I won't need to remove derogatory comments regarding the director/agency).

In reply to your post:

Your contract won't apply to April, so don't expect to be paid then (Your visa will likely finish on the 31st of March too btw).

Also in general, I couldn't see how much you were being paid, but assuming you're only on a standard salary (~30k per month) it's a pretty raw deal. Also it doesn't specify your contact hours, which opens you up to exploitation, as they could tell you to teach 25 or 30 periods a week, and you would just have to accept it (or quit).

Likewise the tax clause isn't clear, you likely wouldn't be required to pay any income tax (Or if you do, it'll be less than 3% of your total salary), since you're not working for a full calendar year, but 2 part years. Many teachers just do their tax manually, thus I don't know if deducting PAYE is mandatory or not for agencies, and it won't save you any extra work, as you'd need to file a tax return regardless in order to try and get a tax rebate.

The cancellation clause is pretty crap, particularly without any idea on what the working conditions or hours will be like. Also losing pay because you're sick, and not having any personal leave, is likely in contravention of Thai labour laws (And not giving you paid visa run days is simply lame).

My advice would be to apply at a government school. I know of one in RoiEt which is looking for 2x teachers for their gifted program (Or at least were looking as of last week), if you send me a PM I can put you in touch with someone from their school (From memory, 30k salary, 11 month contracts, with sickdays etc included, and the salary is negotiable if you have good qualifications/experience. Sickdays will be included, but I think it's 18 contact hours per week but am not sure about that, or about who pays for WP/Visa etc).

Now with a little more time to reply....

I appreciate your diligence in noting I had not redacted the name of the agency and the ladies name in the text itself. Thanks for that.

Though I am not an English teacher, I am a qualified Rugby Union coach and have coached many children in schools. I am also an author for books aimed at children with reading difficulties.

My main interest in the English teaching here is my Filipino g/f and some other friends are English teachers. And I like to try and keep abreast of their interests and those of others, be they NES or otherwise. And discussions of this type that LostIn writes about do arise.

You make some very salient points ragards this contract and I do agree with your viewpoint.

As I said in an earlier reply to LostIn, this is not my contract, but one of 3 contracts recently signed by 3 teachers. Personally, I do believe the contracts are badly written and in the U.K. for example they could be ripped to shreds, but this is Thailand and things work differently here as many of us know.

To me, this contract does not state the teacher(s) will not be paid for the holidays, neither does it state they will be paid.

Quote - "Decuctions will be made to the teachers salary for any missed days, whatever the reason illness, personal, visa run etc. (no work no pay)."

Is a holiday a missed day? Surely not.

I am interested in the comment you made about the sick days and personal days and possibly being in contravention of the Thai labour laws.Your comment about exploitation of hours is also a good one amongst others you have made.

All in all you (we) have started something that will be being discussed over the coming days.

As an aside, the g/f has a Masters degree in Medicine. A nurse for 15 years and also a Nurse teacher. Worked in Honk Kong and China. Yet when talking to a local Memorial hospital they offered her a job as a nurse assistant!!

It seems to me people are not really valued in many ways here.

Apologies if I am seeming to encroach on LIA's topic, but this mainly being about contracts, I'm also eager to see if others respond with their views too.

I believe that >personal days< and>sick days< are covered by Thai labour law. My own employers has both in the contract and they don't like to throw money away...

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If you are working legally, this is a requirement, not an option. So either you were working illegally before, or, the school were taking the payments and not giving them to the government, but after 3 months you would have know this, as you would not have been issued your card for hospital treatment.

I was working legally smile.png The school never deducted tax from me, but I file my tax return manually every year (Even if they make deucutions on your behalf, you should still file manually each year, just as in Farangland, else you'll usually end up overpaying your tax &/or not getting a tax refund).

And I don't have a card for hospital treatment from the school as I don't pay into social security smile.png I think that they're meant to either organise social security or organize private health insurance, but I was never too fussed about it & by the time they were talking about organizing it, I was just about to take a year off anyway lol.

I'm a little bit surprised that your school doesn't seem to be registered at the SS office. There're more "goodies", in your case they'd pay 400 baht ( or similar) for your child per month, you'd be much better off when losing your job, receiving a monthly amount of money for up to a year and other benefits.

I'd really think about an insurance that covers all hospital bills, medicine, etc..

Please read attached file, some really important issues. Thought I'd lost it in Isaan. facepalm.gif

Thailands Labor and Employment Law- Balancing the Demands of a N.pdf

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Yeah when I first started some of the other guys were looking into social security, I was never really concerned and preferred to simply get my full pay cheque (I didn't really understand how it worked, and when I was single wasn't too fussed anyway. Now that I've got a wife & son who'd be covered as well, it makes more sense to get it though).

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