Diving safety rules to be enforced on Koh Tao after Briton struck by boat

[fxe1200]

Presumably there are dive buoys on the surface and other boats are not allowed within so many meters of those buoys.

it would seem in this instant either diver or boat was in the wrong place?

The diving boat also should have the bow pointed towards the buoy, where the diving takes place. There must be someone on watch and warn boats, which are closing in to that area, either by a fog horn, the horn speaker and/or Radio. But I have never seen that in Thailand.

Do you actually dive ? have you done much diving on Koh Tao ? Do you understand just how many people come to Koh Tao to learn to dive or to fun dive ? The figures are huge and yet the accidents are very few and far between. That doesn't stop the Koh Tao haters from posting their bile about the island which they often know very little of if they have actually been there in the first place.

Over the last 12 years I have done thousands of dives there and certified thousands of people and have never once had a problem either in the water or on the island itself.

Accidents happen all over the world not just Thailand and certainly not just Koh Tao

Does your remark has anything to do with my comment?

[balo]

Why not just isolate the whole area so boats can't go there ? I know it will be crowded but if you keep all divers inside a restricted area no accidents will happen .

[cardinalblue]

Never confuse activity with achievement - The Thai culture is one of sanuk and not a serious one for serious topics like enforcement, accountability, compliance, etc. Thais run away from something so unpleasant to encounter and accomplish. Nothing will change....

CB

[Basil B]

I dived Sail Rock, Chumphon Pinnacle and the Twins (4 dives) a few weeks ago, at no time did I recall seeing anyone deploy a SMB.

On all four dive we followed up the anchor line, I assume the dive leaders know their own boats anchors so are able to surface to the right boat, what worries me one day we will have a diving accident due to a deploying anchor.

I still believe SMB's deployed where they are most needed are just a magnet for morons on Jet Skis, dive sites need to be well marked with mooring buoys so boats do not have to drop anchors and all other boats have to stay well clear say 400m and dive boats should not enter the dive site except in emergency, and should manoeuvre at slow speed within 200m any dive site and deploy extra lookouts.

Further more IMHO dive boats should hoist a dive flag to show other boats there are divers in the water and to keep well away, which should be lowed when divers are out of the water.

Edit-in

Sorry did not see above post...

I'm sorry but no dive boat uses an anchor at the dive sites you supposedly dived at. In fact In all the dive sites around Koh Tao I know of none where the dive boat would drop an anchor. They all use Buoy lines which are fixed to the bottom and the boats attach to these and other boats will simply attach to the first boat. Every dive school that I know of or have worked for all insist that an SMB is used before surfacing and a qualified and experienced diver should have his own SMB if for some reason the dive leader doesn't have or use one. I always have mine in my BCD and would certainly use it if I dived with a company that didn't use one

I just read another Koh Tao bashing post here Sorry

In hindsight buoys may have been used it must have been the buoy line we ascended, but SMB's were defiantly not, and I am just referring to the dive leaders of the dive centre I dived with but also the divers from other boats too, I am not knocking Koh Tao, it happens all over Thailand, (apart from all the DSD's lining up for their turn to dive Dunkirk style on Koh Nangnuan).

[wotsdermatter]

There are two (2) international flags, one is blue and white the other is red and white, either of which must be displayed when a diver, or divers are down. The operator of the dive tender is responsible to make sure one or the other is flown when divers are down to warn other boat operators to stay away. It is possible that most of the boat operators may not know about (what they mean) or heed these flags if flown. So, it could be the dive boat operator, if incompetent, or the independent boat operator who lacks responsibility. In the number of reported problems associated with divers, over recent years in Thailand, I have never seen this issue raised by any reporter or member of the police.

[ktdiver]

I have been diving koh Tao for over 10 years. Unfortunately certain dive sites are overcrowded. I have said on more than one occasion, these sites are accidents waiting to happen. The only way to remedy the problem of overcrowding is to limit the number of dive boats at any particular site (twins, white rock). This would be a win win situation. The site would be safer and also a more enjoyable dive with fewer divers, as well as more environmentally sound. With that said, I have dove all over the world and have found the dive operations on Koh Tao to be professional, reliable and safety minded. Hopefully, as a reult of this unfortunate accident, the dive operators will get together and make some simple changes to remedy this situation.

[coulson]

Why not just isolate the whole area so boats can't go there ? I know it will be crowded but if you keep all divers inside a restricted area no accidents will happen .

As you suggest, divers could surface in a 'safe' zone, but they still need to get back to their boat, and there is a lot of traffic on Koh Tao.

[coulson]

I have been diving koh Tao for over 10 years. Unfortunately certain dive sites are overcrowded. I have said on more than one occasion, these sites are accidents waiting to happen. The only way to remedy the problem of overcrowding is to limit the number of dive boats at any particular site (twins, white rock). This would be a win win situation. The site would be safer and also a more enjoyable dive with fewer divers, as well as more environmentally sound. With that said, I have dove all over the world and have found the dive operations on Koh Tao to be professional, reliable and safety minded. Hopefully, as a reult of this unfortunate accident, the dive operators will get together and make some simple changes to remedy this situation.

I honestly applaud everything you said, with the exception of KT being the safest collection of outfits in the world

[kannot]

I feel so much safer now they have "promised"

[coulson]

I feel so much safer now they have "promised"

Safety can be your own responsibility too, if you wish...

[futsukayoi]

I have been diving around Koh Tao many times and the companies who run the operations don't use the marker buoys there at all. To be fair there are so many boats around the coastline that it would not make much difference and they are all jockeying for position to get their divers back on board. There are also snorkelers who can swim out from the beaches who are unsupervised.... In addition to all of this, non divers must realize that novice divers often loose control and float up to the surface with little notice. A diver at 5m can be on the surface in seconds, so accidents in this crowded water are inevitable.

Basically - too many people in too small a space.

That amazes me. I have done over 200 dives in Koh Tao with 5 different operations and in almost all cases marker buoys have been deployed. Where they have not a couple of cases have been ascents due to a problem or training novices in water too shallow to use one. I have only seen a couple of cases where they have not been deployed on normal dives (Dive Master Trainees who don't have on or think they know better). The crowded dive sites you mention are also very well known and dive boats at the surface are a pretty good indication that there are divers or snorkelers around. Most of the dive operations are trained in safety procedures and largely follow them. The problem is that many idiots in boats don't have a clue and don't give a f$#*

[cumgranosalum]

Presumably there are dive buoys on the surface and other boats are not allowed within so many meters of those buoys.

it would seem in this instant either diver or boat was in the wrong place?

The diving boat also should have the bow pointed towards the buoy, where the diving takes place. There must be someone on watch and warn boats, which are closing in to that area, either by a fog horn, the horn speaker and/or Radio. But I have never seen that in Thailand.

Seriously???????

Disgraceful!

I have various yachting quals and a Qld powerboat licence which involved learning about other water traffic...it seems that Thailand doesn't think this is necessary.

how many dive schools adhere to international standards - and what efforts are made to educate local boatmen?

i notice huge lapses in safety on beaches all over Thailand especially relating to swimmers and Jetskis - which are kept well away from each other on Aussie beaches.....

[MockingJay]

Right... punish the dive operators and let the speedboat captain idiots run wild as always... Amazing Thailand

[Sydebolle]

I don't know about you guys but I would rather enforce stricter BOATing rules rather than diving rules

[carmine]

I don't know about you guys but I would rather enforce stricter BOATing rules rather than diving rules

You might have a very good point here.

Mindyou, will anything actually be enforced?

[Basil B]

My biggest fear here is it will be the diving community to blame not the boat crews...

Because dive operators tend to be farange and boats are crewed Thai...

Yet dive operators work under one or more international scuba diver training organization with extremely high standards such as PADI, yet internationality recognised certifications for boat handling such that from the RYA are not recognised and Thailand seems not to have any certification for boat handling competency as a requirement to crew a boat .

Racism at it's worst.

[h90]

As a diving instructor associated with a respectable Dive company it seems to me they are approaching this the wrong way.

99% of qualified instructors/divemasters always follow safety procedures.

In my experience boat/jet ski drivers do not.

That is where they should be looking!

Well I have seen enough divemaster who were too lazy to use their safety sausage......And that is the way it happens.

[h90]

As an owner of a diving company, all of us in this community hope that she has a speedy recovery

Accidents happen in all walks of life, I don't know the full story other than what I read here.

It looks as though she may have been run over by a speed boat, if the captain of that boat did indeed do a runner

We take certified divers in pairs accompanied by a qualified Dive master to dive and novice divers with a fully qualified Instructor.

all the time when we surface we use marker bouys inflated and released upwards from the bottom and do not surface straight away

we do what is known as a decompression stop, even with novices, to teach them the correct safety procedures.

Obviously in this situation something has gone wrong

Don't be so quick to make STUPID assertions without knowing the circumstances

What you mean is a safety stop. Which actually should be a safety against any decompression problems. Of course ridiculous to steal 5 min of value dive time from novices who dove just 10-20 meter deep in the name of safety.

But in this case it might be a safety stop against speed boats. Put the marker bouy out and wait 2 min in the hope the boat driver sees it, is sober and goes far from it.

[h90]

My biggest fear here is it will be the diving community to blame not the boat crews...

Because dive operators tend to be farange and boats are crewed Thai...

Yet dive operators work under one or more international scuba diver training organization with extremely high standards such as PADI, yet internationality recognised certifications for boat handling such that from the RYA are not recognised and Thailand seems not to have any certification for boat handling competency as a requirement to crew a boat .

Racism at it's worst.

extremely high standards....PADI

[evadgib]

1. Surface Marker Buoy-Visible for the duration of dive:

2. Safety Sausage- Deployed at the end of a dive:

3. 'A' Flag-'Divers below' - (See '1' for the alternate 'Divers' flag on top of the SMB)

4. Slalom marker(s) (posted in the hope that Jet ski morons will take the hint & realize they're nothing like 1 or 2!):

Posted for clarity for the casual observer. Curiously the internet throws up '2' for 1 which no doubt has added to the confusion in this thread. Did I miss prop guards.....?

HTH

[h90]

1. Surface Marker Buoy-Visible for the duration of dive:

2. Safety Sausage- Deployed at the end of a dive:

3. 'A' Flag-'Divers below' - (See '1' for the alternate 'Divers' flag on top of the SMB)

4. Slalom marker(s) (posted in the hope that Jet ski morons will take the hint & realize they're nothing like 1 or 2!):

Posted for clarity for the casual observer. Curiously the internet throws up '2' for 1 which no doubt has added to the confusion in this thread.

HTH

A while ago there were problems in Pattaya....Jet Ski Morons going slalom on the safety sausage

[stephenterry]

Yes, it was an accident, but it could and should have been avoided if the boat's pilot had complied with existing safety guidelines. Fleeing the scene (whilst 'normal' here) is despicable because he could have hit another diver on his way out. If the 'enforcement' is serious he shouldn't be permitted to ply his trade. Nor should other pilots who ignore warning signs, floats, and buoys.

Why ALL diving boats and boats that patrol the same waters aren't fitted with suitable propeller guards/protectors is beyond my comprehension. That should be paramount and enforced on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are design trade-offs that hinder speed, and there's no 'one cap fits all' product, but surely any guard would be better than none.

The real issue is that there is no concept of safety compliance or defensive driving/piloting in Thailand. I would expect, even if safety rules were enforced, within weeks there would be non-observance. Meanwhile, I wish for the woman's speedy and full recovery from a very tragic injury.

[h90]

Yes, it was an accident, but it could and should have been avoided if the boat's pilot had complied with existing safety guidelines. Fleeing the scene (whilst 'normal' here) is despicable because he could have hit another diver on his way out. If the 'enforcement' is serious he shouldn't be permitted to ply his trade. Nor should other pilots who ignore warning signs, floats, and buoys.

Why ALL diving boats and boats that patrol the same waters aren't fitted with suitable propeller guards/protectors is beyond my comprehension. That should be paramount and enforced on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are design trade-offs that hinder speed, and there's no 'one cap fits all' product, but surely any guard would be better than none.

The real issue is that there is no concept of safety compliance or defensive driving/piloting in Thailand. I would expect, even if safety rules were enforced, within weeks there would be non-observance. Meanwhile, I wish for the woman's speedy and full recovery from a very tragic injury.

well you don't know if the divers had complied with existing safety guidelines or if he just swam 1 meter below surface without any signs. Considering waves it might be impossible so see the diver.

[stephenterry]

Bit late innit............

For this accident, yes, but it might help prevent accidents in the future.

[stephenterry]

Yes, it was an accident, but it could and should have been avoided if the boat's pilot had complied with existing safety guidelines. Fleeing the scene (whilst 'normal' here) is despicable because he could have hit another diver on his way out. If the 'enforcement' is serious he shouldn't be permitted to ply his trade. Nor should other pilots who ignore warning signs, floats, and buoys.

Why ALL diving boats and boats that patrol the same waters aren't fitted with suitable propeller guards/protectors is beyond my comprehension. That should be paramount and enforced on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are design trade-offs that hinder speed, and there's no 'one cap fits all' product, but surely any guard would be better than none.

The real issue is that there is no concept of safety compliance or defensive driving/piloting in Thailand. I would expect, even if safety rules were enforced, within weeks there would be non-observance. Meanwhile, I wish for the woman's speedy and full recovery from a very tragic injury.

well you don't know if the divers had complied with existing safety guidelines or if he just swam 1 meter below surface without any signs. Considering waves it might be impossible so see the diver.

Yes, I agree if that was the actuality, but I would suggest that any area 'known' to be where divers are, e.g. buoys etc. a modicum of avoidance could have prevented this accident (especially if the surface water conditions were adverse). From the above report the arrested pilot confessed to the crime (whatever that means) rather than suggest it was the diver's fault.

[h90]

Yes, it was an accident, but it could and should have been avoided if the boat's pilot had complied with existing safety guidelines. Fleeing the scene (whilst 'normal' here) is despicable because he could have hit another diver on his way out. If the 'enforcement' is serious he shouldn't be permitted to ply his trade. Nor should other pilots who ignore warning signs, floats, and buoys.

Why ALL diving boats and boats that patrol the same waters aren't fitted with suitable propeller guards/protectors is beyond my comprehension. That should be paramount and enforced on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are design trade-offs that hinder speed, and there's no 'one cap fits all' product, but surely any guard would be better than none.

The real issue is that there is no concept of safety compliance or defensive driving/piloting in Thailand. I would expect, even if safety rules were enforced, within weeks there would be non-observance. Meanwhile, I wish for the woman's speedy and full recovery from a very tragic injury.

well you don't know if the divers had complied with existing safety guidelines or if he just swam 1 meter below surface without any signs. Considering waves it might be impossible so see the diver.

Yes, I agree if that was the actuality, but I would suggest that any area 'known' to be where divers are, e.g. buoys etc. a modicum of avoidance could have prevented this accident (especially if the surface water conditions were adverse). From the above report the arrested pilot confessed to the crime (whatever that means) rather than suggest it was the diver's fault.

Well I don't know the situation but being on a boat before I can imagine situation where you just can't see the diver and might hit one if the diver is careless even you are slow and alert.

Of course it doesn't justify to run away afterwards....that is a crime.

[stephenterry]

Yes, it was an accident, but it could and should have been avoided if the boat's pilot had complied with existing safety guidelines. Fleeing the scene (whilst 'normal' here) is despicable because he could have hit another diver on his way out. If the 'enforcement' is serious he shouldn't be permitted to ply his trade. Nor should other pilots who ignore warning signs, floats, and buoys.

Why ALL diving boats and boats that patrol the same waters aren't fitted with suitable propeller guards/protectors is beyond my comprehension. That should be paramount and enforced on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are design trade-offs that hinder speed, and there's no 'one cap fits all' product, but surely any guard would be better than none.

The real issue is that there is no concept of safety compliance or defensive driving/piloting in Thailand. I would expect, even if safety rules were enforced, within weeks there would be non-observance. Meanwhile, I wish for the woman's speedy and full recovery from a very tragic injury.

well you don't know if the divers had complied with existing safety guidelines or if he just swam 1 meter below surface without any signs. Considering waves it might be impossible so see the diver.

Yes, I agree if that was the actuality, but I would suggest that any area 'known' to be where divers are, e.g. buoys etc. a modicum of avoidance could have prevented this accident (especially if the surface water conditions were adverse). From the above report the arrested pilot confessed to the crime (whatever that means) rather than suggest it was the diver's fault.

Well I don't know the situation but being on a boat before I can imagine situation where you just can't see the diver and might hit one if the diver is careless even you are slow and alert.

Of course it doesn't justify to run away afterwards....that is a crime.

Exactly - that's why he shouldn't be there among the divers, but patrolling outside the marker buoys. This pilot was 60 years old - old enough to know better.