Might help someone, lost 40kg in 6 months

[konying]

So where in Chiang Mai can you buy this product?

No idea, contact the main office as i did

[konying]

Checked the websites and could not find prices anywhere.

around 1280-1380 baht per tank, distributors sell it cheaper for some reason than the main office

[konying]

I always assumed herbalife was just a multilevel marketing scam, perhaps I was mistaken. I've never tried it personally, I just try to exercise a couple of hours per day and watch the intake of sugar and fat. At age 63, I am still pretty fit.

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Glad, trolls managed to find this thread

[konying]

I always assumed herbalife was just a multilevel marketing scam, perhaps I was mistaken. I've never tried it personally, I just try to exercise a couple of hours per day and watch the intake of sugar and fat. At age 63, I am still pretty fit.

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Don't think that any sane member with almost 3.000 posts would jeopardize his account being closed for running ads...

My two cents - low or no carb, no sugared sodas, no sweets for a few weeks while drinking enough water and doing just a bit of exercise worked great for me. 12 kilos in 7 weeks, felt great and did not miss a thing. Sadly, I am back to coke, italian food, wheat beer and snacks... time to start over again...

Thanks to the OP for this interesting thread! Great job! Congrats to your "loss"!

I too have a sweet tooth and love the snacks.

I still eat it, but try to eat the tasty food with my one meal at lunch time.

When i have craving for Coke, i mix it with soda water, more soda water than Coke, and it kills the craving, while giving minimal sugar intake

[konying]

....eat less, exercise more-' let each man find his own salvation'

Easy said than done when you 20-40 kg overweight.

When i was into bodybuilding, i use to make silly comments about fat people just being lazy and not wanting to do the exercise.

Just like you, i made silly comments assuming it was that easy.

The truth is, now having been on the other side of scales, it is NOT that easy.

As i explained, when overweight, energy levels are very low, and it takes lots of courage and strength to act.

Many people also work and simply do not have the time to hit the gym.

[h90]

I always assumed herbalife was just a multilevel marketing scam, perhaps I was mistaken. I've never tried it personally, I just try to exercise a couple of hours per day and watch the intake of sugar and fat. At age 63, I am still pretty fit.

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Don't think that any sane member with almost 3.000 posts would jeopardize his account being closed for running ads...

My two cents - low or no carb, no sugared sodas, no sweets for a few weeks while drinking enough water and doing just a bit of exercise worked great for me. 12 kilos in 7 weeks, felt great and did not miss a thing. Sadly, I am back to coke, italian food, wheat beer and snacks... time to start over again...

Thanks to the OP for this interesting thread! Great job! Congrats to your "loss"!

12 kg in 7 weeks? 1.7 kg per week?

I already find it hard to maintain a 1 kg per week.

1.7 would be 1700 kcal too less than you need per day

[konying]

Good going Konying,

Congrats on reaching your goal. I am on a similar diet using whey protein powder available locally and about halfway to my weight loss goal. I am drinking protein water one day and eating pretty much whatever I want the second day. I have found it to be very easy; it not only works but you save a lot of money. I've found eating alternate days that I am not very hungry on the eating day; so two light meals is enough. I also gave up beer, sodas, carbs; sticking pretty much to meat, veggies, salads, and vodka.

I hate protein with water, I use non fat milk instead, but I doubt it makes a big difference.

add a banana. Not the fat ones, but the small ones(no idea what its called) it gives a nice thick taste to it.

[h90]

Good going Konying,

Congrats on reaching your goal. I am on a similar diet using whey protein powder available locally and about halfway to my weight loss goal. I am drinking protein water one day and eating pretty much whatever I want the second day. I have found it to be very easy; it not only works but you save a lot of money. I've found eating alternate days that I am not very hungry on the eating day; so two light meals is enough. I also gave up beer, sodas, carbs; sticking pretty much to meat, veggies, salads, and vodka.

I hate protein with water, I use non fat milk instead, but I doubt it makes a big difference.

add a banana. Not the fat ones, but the small ones(no idea what its called) it gives a nice thick taste to it.

yes I love that....doing that when I want to have more success on the training, but currently 3-4kg must go away before I fly to Europe in 4 weeks.....So I am able to make some smart a$$ comments about fat people and discipline, but obviously I must get rid of my fat first

So no carbs, no banana

[konying]

Good going Konying,

Congrats on reaching your goal. I am on a similar diet using whey protein powder available locally and about halfway to my weight loss goal. I am drinking protein water one day and eating pretty much whatever I want the second day. I have found it to be very easy; it not only works but you save a lot of money. I've found eating alternate days that I am not very hungry on the eating day; so two light meals is enough. I also gave up beer, sodas, carbs; sticking pretty much to meat, veggies, salads, and vodka.

I hate protein with water, I use non fat milk instead, but I doubt it makes a big difference.

add a banana. Not the fat ones, but the small ones(no idea what its called) it gives a nice thick taste to it.

yes I love that....doing that when I want to have more success on the training, but currently 3-4kg must go away before I fly to Europe in 4 weeks.....So I am able to make some smart <deleted> comments about fat people and discipline, but obviously I must get rid of my fat first

So no carbs, no banana

I been adding banana from day one, i only do water shakes, and no fat gain

I do not believe locally made low fat milk to be low fat, so may be a banana instead of milk will do the trick

[fishbrando]

thanks for the convincing testimonials; so how do you get your hands on the product if you live in Isaan?

They have agents distributors all over the country.

Initially i contact the main office from their website.

They guy there started to talk something which i still do not understand, he was talking programs.

Anyhow, i first ordered direct from them.

Postage was free, from memory price was 1280 per tank( or what ever its called)

Later, by accident, my neighbor commented that i lost weight, so after a chat, it turned out she use to be a distributor but stopped long time ago.

Cut the story short, she introduced me to another person, strangely enough it was cheaper to buy from that person than directly from the company.

Now that person returned back to Germany, but i still order through her and have it sent.

Will answer your PM shortly

...and he winds up for the pitch.

This is how MLM works - you make your miracle pitch and then sell to your friends/associates.

Amazingly, it was cheaper to order from his friend than directly from the main office - so having more middlemen means more of a discount? More MLM logic.

[fishbrando]

I always assumed herbalife was just a multilevel marketing scam, perhaps I was mistaken. I've never tried it personally, I just try to exercise a couple of hours per day and watch the intake of sugar and fat. At age 63, I am still pretty fit.

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

just your view,

in my view its a good honest helpful post for all us fatties

As is often said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

Why don't you PM him and see if he's willing to sell you some Herbalife product.

[konying]

thanks for the convincing testimonials; so how do you get your hands on the product if you live in Isaan?

They have agents distributors all over the country.

Initially i contact the main office from their website.

They guy there started to talk something which i still do not understand, he was talking programs.

Anyhow, i first ordered direct from them.

Postage was free, from memory price was 1280 per tank( or what ever its called)

Later, by accident, my neighbor commented that i lost weight, so after a chat, it turned out she use to be a distributor but stopped long time ago.

Cut the story short, she introduced me to another person, strangely enough it was cheaper to buy from that person than directly from the company.

Now that person returned back to Germany, but i still order through her and have it sent.

Will answer your PM shortly

...and he winds up for the pitch.

This is how MLM works - you make your miracle pitch and then sell to your friends/associates.

Amazingly, it was cheaper to order from his friend than directly from the main office - so having more middlemen means more of a discount? More MLM logic.

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

[fishbrando]

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Don't think that any sane member with almost 3.000 posts would jeopardize his account being closed for running ads...

You're right, no one would jeopardize his free internet points in order to make some hard cash.

[h90]

I hate protein with water, I use non fat milk instead, but I doubt it makes a big difference.

add a banana. Not the fat ones, but the small ones(no idea what its called) it gives a nice thick taste to it.

yes I love that....doing that when I want to have more success on the training, but currently 3-4kg must go away before I fly to Europe in 4 weeks.....So I am able to make some smart <deleted> comments about fat people and discipline, but obviously I must get rid of my fat first

So no carbs, no banana

I been adding banana from day one, i only do water shakes, and no fat gain

I do not believe locally made low fat milk to be low fat, so may be a banana instead of milk will do the trick

Well I believe that the no fat (not low fat) milk doesn't contain fat, because the fat is very expensive, so they make profit by removing it.

The non fat milk is a very low value product at a very high price. So no point of cheating here, it is already a rip off....

It is not about the calories of the banana, it is about the carbs. Not 1 banana would be that bad but if I have the choice between the carbs in the banana and some wine on the evening the banana loose.

[fishbrando]

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

Skepticism isn't trolling.

I've seen people ruined by the promises of MLM so I try to warn others of the dangers. Most of them operate like cults.

At best they are a rip-off, selling you product for well above retail prices. For example, Amway Nutrilite protein is 2-3x the price of comparable product.

Take a look at a book called "Merchants of Deception" about Amway. it's available for free download/reading if you look around a bit.

[h90]

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

Skepticism isn't trolling.

I've seen people ruined by the promises of MLM so I try to warn others of the dangers. Most of them operate like cults.

At best they are a rip-off, selling you product for well above retail prices. For example, Amway Nutrilite protein is 2-3x the price of comparable product.

Take a look at a book called "Merchants of Deception" about Amway. it's available for free download/reading if you look around a bit.

I was once invited in something like that. First of all the marketing and brainwashing is really good. Almost the same level as Scientology. (But at least at Amway you get some soap for your money).

But more was how easy it is to brainwash a room full of people. The average person must be really silly or naive.

[optad]

The OP did read a little like a commercial but not to say it doesn't work.

In principle eating less is part of the plan. Our intake seems to have increased over time, and we simply do not need so much food. The shakes probably help this.

The cutting the carbs has help me. My addiction to bread has been the killer and had a tougher time of that than quitting smoking as i recall!! The OPs breakfast of "black coffee and five slices of ham" just beggars a sourdough and mustard foundation but you can't do it. Black coffee and porridge i can. Haven't lost huge numbers 6 kilos this year, now 94 kg but tracking the right way.

The problem in Thailand is getting the opportunities to exercise properly and regularly. Part of the discipline.

'live lighter' is a good maxim if you need one!

Carry on

[konying]

The OP did read a little like a commercial but not to say it doesn't work.

In principle eating less is part of the plan. Our intake seems to have increased over time, and we simply do not need so much food. The shakes probably help this.

The cutting the carbs has help me. My addiction to bread has been the killer and had a tougher time of that than quitting smoking as i recall!! The OPs breakfast of "black coffee and five slices of ham" just beggars a sourdough and mustard foundation but you can't do it. Black coffee and porridge i can. Haven't lost huge numbers 6 kilos this year, now 94 kg but tracking the right way.

The problem in Thailand is getting the opportunities to exercise properly and regularly. Part of the discipline.

'live lighter' is a good maxim if you need one!

Carry on

Eating less is easy concept, hard reality when one is hungry.

Our nature usually when hungry is to pick up food and eat , the end result is extra weight in the end.

As I said in the opening , herbal life or alike. I am not aware of other companies being available in Thailand, so it's either herbal life or diet whey protein which is hard or pretty much impossible to find in Thailand .

One can try with just protein shakes instead of herbal life , it may well work the same, I have not tried so can not comment.

[konying]

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

Skepticism isn't trolling.

I've seen people ruined by the promises of MLM so I try to warn others of the dangers. Most of them operate like cults.

At best they are a rip-off, selling you product for well above retail prices. For example, Amway Nutrilite protein is 2-3x the price of comparable product.

Take a look at a book called "Merchants of Deception" about Amway. it's available for free download/reading if you look around a bit.

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

[h90]

The OP did read a little like a commercial but not to say it doesn't work.

In principle eating less is part of the plan. Our intake seems to have increased over time, and we simply do not need so much food. The shakes probably help this.

The cutting the carbs has help me. My addiction to bread has been the killer and had a tougher time of that than quitting smoking as i recall!! The OPs breakfast of "black coffee and five slices of ham" just beggars a sourdough and mustard foundation but you can't do it. Black coffee and porridge i can. Haven't lost huge numbers 6 kilos this year, now 94 kg but tracking the right way.

The problem in Thailand is getting the opportunities to exercise properly and regularly. Part of the discipline.

'live lighter' is a good maxim if you need one!

Carry on

Eating less is easy concept, hard reality when one is hungry.

Our nature usually when hungry is to pick up food and eat , the end result is extra weight in the end.

As I said in the opening , herbal life or alike. I am not aware of other companies being available in Thailand, so it's either herbal life or diet whey protein which is hard or pretty much impossible to find in Thailand .

One can try with just protein shakes instead of herbal life , it may well work the same, I have not tried so can not comment.

A guess a normal protein shake will work, or instead just boiled eggs work very well. Or some of the non fat non sugar yoghurt, but I don't know what happens if you eat too much of the sour yoghurt.

Maybe Casein protein would be better than Whey protein and it is also available in Thailand.

I think the details don't matter much as long as you really do it.

[h90]

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

Skepticism isn't trolling.

I've seen people ruined by the promises of MLM so I try to warn others of the dangers. Most of them operate like cults.

At best they are a rip-off, selling you product for well above retail prices. For example, Amway Nutrilite protein is 2-3x the price of comparable product.

Take a look at a book called "Merchants of Deception" about Amway. it's available for free download/reading if you look around a bit.

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

Scepticism: A sceptical attitude; doubt as to the truth of something.

If he would have tried it and failed he would (believe to) know that it doesn't work.

[Sheryl]

Moved to the "I'm too Fat" forum

[fishbrando]

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

Skepticism as to whether you're a Herbalife spammer or not - that is the sole and entire point of all my objections to your post. It would have been an inspiring story if Herbalife weren't mentioned 4 times.

What's worked for me? Intermittent Fasting and HIIT.

Resources for Intermittent Fasting include Leangains (though the author has gone off the rails a bit recently), Eat Stop Eat, and the 5:2 diet. I personally follow Leangains but I'm sure any IF protocol would work. Note that I wouldn't recommend IF to women for reasons outlined in the Leangains website.

Michael Mosley had a great documentary on IF and lifespan which lead to the 5:2 diet: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms

HIIT: Here's a great writeup from Quora:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-interval-training-over-traditional-cardio

You get more of the benefits of traditional cardio exercise in less time. One noteworthy study showed that 2.5 hours of interval training was equivalent to about 10.5 hours of traditional cardio in terms endurance performance benefits.[4] There are other studies showing people getting more cardio benefits in less time via intervals.[10][14][15][16][21] The benefits for health are noteworthy as well.

It may suppress hunger levels more so than traditional cardio.[1][12][13] That's really important because a lot of people have trouble maintaining a healthy weight.

It may increase your VO2 max which is a measure of maximum output, much more so than traditional cardio.[3][19][22] This is one type of fitness that I think is underrated and extremely important. Interestingly, VO2 max has been shown to be correlated with telomere health[2]. Healthy telomeres may be important for avoiding age related diseases, so this is another plus.

Another point is that powerlifting, which is quite similar to a sprint in terms of the fact that it works a lot of muscle groups and requires a lot of anaerobic output in a limited period of time, also yields benefits in terms of longer telomeres.[8]It improves your anaerobic fitness as well as your aerobic fitness.

It may be more effective at getting rid of both subcutaneous and abdominal fat than traditional cardio exercise.[5][11]

HIIT substantially improves insulin response[5][6], which is a beneficial because insulin resistance is a huge issue that increases the likelihood of diabetes and other health disorders.

You expend more energy in the 24 hours post exercise as well.[17]

The number and size of your mitochondria may increase more so than with traditional exercise.[19]

It can improve performance in already well trained athletes. A 2009 study by Driller and co-workers[22] showed an 8.2 second improvement in 2000m rowing time following 4 weeks of HIIT in well-trained rowers. [9]

Interval training increases the activity of a protein called SIRT1[23][25] in skeletal muscles. SIRT1 is thought to be important in helping protect your body from damage that accumulates during the course of aging. There's a lot of research on aging and SIRT1. Although the footnoted research only pertains to skeletal muscle, interval training is demanding in terms of its total body energy requirements over a short period of time. SIRT1 is also important because it inhibits fat storage and increases fat metabolism. SIRT1 also thought to reduce inflammation and oxidative stress.[24] As we age, our motor function decreases and we become less able to recover after muscle injury. The ability to increase function and recovery times is important regardless of what physical activity you pursue.

As a side note, shorter more intense intervals may be better. Studies often show the most benefits in intervals that are 15 to 30 seconds long. That's because 15 to 30 seconds is about as long as the average person can do an all out sprint for, with oxygen stored in myoglobin only lasting about 5-15 seconds.[7] If you train yourself, you and become an elite athlete, you may be able to do an all out sprint for 60 seconds or so,according to some estimates.

[1] How Exercise Can Help Us Eat Less

[2] Leukocyte Telomere Length is Preserved with Aging in Endurance Exercise-Trained Adults and Related to Maximal Aerobic Capacity http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/...

[3] Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[4] Short-term sprint interval versus traditional endurance training: similar initial adaptations in human skeletal muscle and exercise performance

[5] High-Intensity Intermittent Exercise and Fat Loss

[6] Extremely short duration high intensity interval training substantially improves insulin action in young healthy males

[7] Astrand, I., & Astrand, P-O. (1960). Myohemoglobin as an oxygen-store in man. Acta Physiologica Scandinavica, 48, 454-460]

[8] The effects of regular strength trainin... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008]

[9] Driller Matthew, Fell James, Gregory John, Shing Cecilia, Williams Andrew (2009). "The effects of high-intensity interval training in well-trained rowers". International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance 4: 1. via High-intensity interval training

[10] Low-volume interval training improves muscle oxidative capacity in sedentary adults. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[11] The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise training on fat loss and fasting insulin levels of young women

[12] High-intensity intermittent exercise attenuates ad-libitum energy intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[13] The 24-h Energy Intake of Obese Adolescents Is Spontaneously Reduced after Intensive Exercise: A Randomized Controlled Trial in Calorimetric Chambers

[14] Physiological adaptations to low-volume, high-intensity interval training in health and disease

[15] Similar metabolic adaptations during exercise after low volume sprint interval and traditional endurance training in humans

[16] 4. King, J., Panton, L., Broeder, C., Browder, K., Quindry, J., & Rhea, L. (2001). A comparison of high intensity vs. low intensity exercise on body composition in overweight women. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 33, A2421

[17] Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. (1996). Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 28, 1138-1143

[18] Christmass, M.A., Dawson, B., & Arthur, P.G. (1999). Effect of work and recovery duration on skeletal muscle oxygenation and fuel use during sustained intermittent exercise. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 80, 436-447

[19] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/20...

[20] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms. A practical model of low-volume high-intensity int... [J Physiol. 2010]

[21] Six sessions of sprint interval training increases muscle oxidative potential

and cycle endurance capacity in humans http://www.budopoint.de/en/scien...

[22] Ask Well: Long Runs vs. Sprints

[23] NRC Research Press - Scientific Publishing

[24] The physiological roles of Sirt1 in skeletal muscle

[25] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms

[konying]

Troll, what friend? learn to read, a neighbor who introduced me to a distributor, who has left Thailand already.

Why without a fail every thread attracts a troll who does not read or comprehend and just posts utter rubbish without having any interest or related information to the thread?

Some people really need to get a life

Skepticism isn't trolling.

I've seen people ruined by the promises of MLM so I try to warn others of the dangers. Most of them operate like cults.

At best they are a rip-off, selling you product for well above retail prices. For example, Amway Nutrilite protein is 2-3x the price of comparable product.

Take a look at a book called "Merchants of Deception" about Amway. it's available for free download/reading if you look around a bit.

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

Scepticism: A sceptical attitude; doubt as to the truth of something.

If he would have tried it and failed he would (believe to) know that it doesn't work.

So in other words he is trolling , having no experience with the product not offering other alternatives.

Herbal life marketing and selling principle are not in question here, their product is what worked for me.

If there was a cheaper alternative I would not hesitate to change , cause it's not cheap, but there is not one in Thailand that I am aware of.

[fishbrando]

I forgot to mention: with a combination of HIIT and IF, I went from 73kg to 59kg in 6 months. It's about 2kg/month weight loss, which is not unreasonable.

[konying]

The OP did read a little like a commercial but not to say it doesn't work.

In principle eating less is part of the plan. Our intake seems to have increased over time, and we simply do not need so much food. The shakes probably help this.

The cutting the carbs has help me. My addiction to bread has been the killer and had a tougher time of that than quitting smoking as i recall!! The OPs breakfast of "black coffee and five slices of ham" just beggars a sourdough and mustard foundation but you can't do it. Black coffee and porridge i can. Haven't lost huge numbers 6 kilos this year, now 94 kg but tracking the right way.

The problem in Thailand is getting the opportunities to exercise properly and regularly. Part of the discipline.

'live lighter' is a good maxim if you need one!

Carry on

Eating less is easy concept, hard reality when one is hungry.

Our nature usually when hungry is to pick up food and eat , the end result is extra weight in the end.

As I said in the opening , herbal life or alike. I am not aware of other companies being available in Thailand, so it's either herbal life or diet whey protein which is hard or pretty much impossible to find in Thailand .

One can try with just protein shakes instead of herbal life , it may well work the same, I have not tried so can not comment.

A guess a normal protein shake will work, or instead just boiled eggs work very well. Or some of the non fat non sugar yoghurt, but I don't know what happens if you eat too much of the sour yoghurt.

Maybe Casein protein would be better than Whey protein and it is also available in Thailand.

I think the details don't matter much as long as you really do it.

I tried normal protein and find its sits heavy in the stomach, herbal life process really fast.

I have tried to find what Ingridients used in herbal life to find cheaper alternatives but all I could find was soy protein mix. Would be good to know what is in the " mix"

[konying]

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

Skepticism as to whether you're a Herbalife spammer or not - that is the sole and entire point of all my objections to your post. It would have been an inspiring story if Herbalife weren't mentioned 4 times.

What's worked for me? Intermittent Fasting and HIIT.

Resources for Intermittent Fasting include Leangains (though the author has gone off the rails a bit recently), Eat Stop Eat, and the 5:2 diet. I personally follow Leangains but I'm sure any IF protocol would work. Note that I wouldn't recommend IF to women for reasons outlined in the Leangains website.

Michael Mosley had a great documentary on IF and lifespan which lead to the 5:2 diet: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms

HIIT: Here's a great writeup from Quora:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-interval-training-over-traditional-cardio

You get more of the benefits of traditional cardio exercise in less time. One noteworthy study showed that 2.5 hours of interval training was equivalent to about 10.5 hours of traditional cardio in terms endurance performance benefits.[4] There are other studies showing people getting more cardio benefits in less time via intervals.[10][14][15][16][21] The benefits for health are noteworthy as well.

It may suppress hunger levels more so than traditional cardio.[1][12][13] That's really important because a lot of people have trouble maintaining a healthy weight.

It may increase your VO2 max which is a measure of maximum output, much more so than traditional cardio.[3][19][22] This is one type of fitness that I think is underrated and extremely important. Interestingly, VO2 max has been shown to be correlated with telomere health[2]. Healthy telomeres may be important for avoiding age related diseases, so this is another plus.

Another point is that powerlifting, which is quite similar to a sprint in terms of the fact that it works a lot of muscle groups and requires a lot of anaerobic output in a limited period of time, also yields benefits in terms of longer telomeres.[8]It improves your anaerobic fitness as well as your aerobic fitness.

It may be more effective at getting rid of both subcutaneous and abdominal fat than traditional cardio exercise.[5][11]

HIIT substantially improves insulin response[5][6], which is a beneficial because insulin resistance is a huge issue that increases the likelihood of diabetes and other health disorders.

You expend more energy in the 24 hours post exercise as well.[17]

The number and size of your mitochondria may increase more so than with traditional exercise.[19]

It can improve performance in already well trained athletes. A 2009 study by Driller and co-workers[22] showed an 8.2 second improvement in 2000m rowing time following 4 weeks of HIIT in well-trained rowers. [9]

Interval training increases the activity of a protein called SIRT1[23][25] in skeletal muscles. SIRT1 is thought to be important in helping protect your body from damage that accumulates during the course of aging. There's a lot of research on aging and SIRT1. Although the footnoted research only pertains to skeletal muscle, interval training is demanding in terms of its total body energy requirements over a short period of time. SIRT1 is also important because it inhibits fat storage and increases fat metabolism. SIRT1 also thought to reduce inflammation and oxidative stress.[24] As we age, our motor function decreases and we become less able to recover after muscle injury. The ability to increase function and recovery times is important regardless of what physical activity you pursue.

As a side note, shorter more intense intervals may be better. Studies often show the most benefits in intervals that are 15 to 30 seconds long. That's because 15 to 30 seconds is about as long as the average person can do an all out sprint for, with oxygen stored in myoglobin only lasting about 5-15 seconds.[7] If you train yourself, you and become an elite athlete, you may be able to do an all out sprint for 60 seconds or so,according to some estimates.

[1] How Exercise Can Help Us Eat Less

[2] Leukocyte Telomere Length is Preserved with Aging in Endurance Exercise-Trained Adults and Related to Maximal Aerobic Capacity http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/...

[3] Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[4] Short-term sprint interval versus traditional endurance training: similar initial adaptations in human skeletal muscle and exercise performance

[5] High-Intensity Intermittent Exercise and Fat Loss

[6] Extremely short duration high intensity interval training substantially improves insulin action in young healthy males

[7] Astrand, I., & Astrand, P-O. (1960). Myohemoglobin as an oxygen-store in man. Acta Physiologica Scandinavica, 48, 454-460]

[8] The effects of regular strength trainin... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008]

[9] Driller Matthew, Fell James, Gregory John, Shing Cecilia, Williams Andrew (2009). "The effects of high-intensity interval training in well-trained rowers". International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance 4: 1. via High-intensity interval training

[10] Low-volume interval training improves muscle oxidative capacity in sedentary adults. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[11] The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise training on fat loss and fasting insulin levels of young women

[12] High-intensity intermittent exercise attenuates ad-libitum energy intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[13] The 24-h Energy Intake of Obese Adolescents Is Spontaneously Reduced after Intensive Exercise: A Randomized Controlled Trial in Calorimetric Chambers

[14] Physiological adaptations to low-volume, high-intensity interval training in health and disease

[15] Similar metabolic adaptations during exercise after low volume sprint interval and traditional endurance training in humans

[16] 4. King, J., Panton, L., Broeder, C., Browder, K., Quindry, J., & Rhea, L. (2001). A comparison of high intensity vs. low intensity exercise on body composition in overweight women. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 33, A2421

[17] Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. (1996). Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 28, 1138-1143

[18] Christmass, M.A., Dawson, B., & Arthur, P.G. (1999). Effect of work and recovery duration on skeletal muscle oxygenation and fuel use during sustained intermittent exercise. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 80, 436-447

[19] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/20...

[20] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms. A practical model of low-volume high-intensity int... [J Physiol. 2010]

[21] Six sessions of sprint interval training increases muscle oxidative potential

and cycle endurance capacity in humans http://www.budopoint.de/en/scien...

[22] Ask Well: Long Runs vs. Sprints

[23] NRC Research Press - Scientific Publishing

[24] The physiological roles of Sirt1 in skeletal muscle

[25] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms

I guess it's a good thing you read the OP and paid attention

1. In my experience, if I had the time to hit the gym I would not have needed hl, nor would I have had gained the weight

2. If I did not suffer injuries and still suffer from pain after surgeries , again I would not have had the need to loose weight.

But your suggestion for overweight people to hit the gym or sprint ? And that's easy? You call 75kg to be overweight?

Come back once you experience 129kg and then tell me again to sprint.

[robblok]

I always assumed herbalife was just a multilevel marketing scam, perhaps I was mistaken. I've never tried it personally, I just try to exercise a couple of hours per day and watch the intake of sugar and fat. At age 63, I am still pretty fit.

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Don't think that any sane member with almost 3.000 posts would jeopardize his account being closed for running ads...

My two cents - low or no carb, no sugared sodas, no sweets for a few weeks while drinking enough water and doing just a bit of exercise worked great for me. 12 kilos in 7 weeks, felt great and did not miss a thing. Sadly, I am back to coke, italian food, wheat beer and snacks... time to start over again...

Thanks to the OP for this interesting thread! Great job! Congrats to your "loss"!

12 kg in 7 weeks? 1.7 kg per week?

I already find it hard to maintain a 1 kg per week.

1.7 would be 1700 kcal too less than you need per day

Dont forget at first you loose a lot of extra weight if you cut out carbs for instance.. then maybe cut out salt and loose even more. Not all weight that is lost is fat. Also some people have a heavier start weight. As I recall your not that big so in percentage its harder for you to loose weight.

You just can't easily compare it between people. I always found it frustrating when people lost more weight as me or faster. Now that i am on the right weight and have kept it off and build up a good physique I don't care anymore. I am learning to accept that everybody is different.

[h90]

Scepticism about my experience or you have tried using and it failed?

If neither , then it's trolling

But you welcome to offer easy alternatives which you personally used and it helped you

Skepticism as to whether you're a Herbalife spammer or not - that is the sole and entire point of all my objections to your post. It would have been an inspiring story if Herbalife weren't mentioned 4 times.

What's worked for me? Intermittent Fasting and HIIT.

Resources for Intermittent Fasting include Leangains (though the author has gone off the rails a bit recently), Eat Stop Eat, and the 5:2 diet. I personally follow Leangains but I'm sure any IF protocol would work. Note that I wouldn't recommend IF to women for reasons outlined in the Leangains website.

Michael Mosley had a great documentary on IF and lifespan which lead to the 5:2 diet: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms

HIIT: Here's a great writeup from Quora:

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-interval-training-over-traditional-cardio

You get more of the benefits of traditional cardio exercise in less time. One noteworthy study showed that 2.5 hours of interval training was equivalent to about 10.5 hours of traditional cardio in terms endurance performance benefits.[4] There are other studies showing people getting more cardio benefits in less time via intervals.[10][14][15][16][21] The benefits for health are noteworthy as well.

It may suppress hunger levels more so than traditional cardio.[1][12][13] That's really important because a lot of people have trouble maintaining a healthy weight.

It may increase your VO2 max which is a measure of maximum output, much more so than traditional cardio.[3][19][22] This is one type of fitness that I think is underrated and extremely important. Interestingly, VO2 max has been shown to be correlated with telomere health[2]. Healthy telomeres may be important for avoiding age related diseases, so this is another plus.

Another point is that powerlifting, which is quite similar to a sprint in terms of the fact that it works a lot of muscle groups and requires a lot of anaerobic output in a limited period of time, also yields benefits in terms of longer telomeres.[8]It improves your anaerobic fitness as well as your aerobic fitness.

It may be more effective at getting rid of both subcutaneous and abdominal fat than traditional cardio exercise.[5][11]

HIIT substantially improves insulin response[5][6], which is a beneficial because insulin resistance is a huge issue that increases the likelihood of diabetes and other health disorders.

You expend more energy in the 24 hours post exercise as well.[17]

The number and size of your mitochondria may increase more so than with traditional exercise.[19]

It can improve performance in already well trained athletes. A 2009 study by Driller and co-workers[22] showed an 8.2 second improvement in 2000m rowing time following 4 weeks of HIIT in well-trained rowers. [9]

Interval training increases the activity of a protein called SIRT1[23][25] in skeletal muscles. SIRT1 is thought to be important in helping protect your body from damage that accumulates during the course of aging. There's a lot of research on aging and SIRT1. Although the footnoted research only pertains to skeletal muscle, interval training is demanding in terms of its total body energy requirements over a short period of time. SIRT1 is also important because it inhibits fat storage and increases fat metabolism. SIRT1 also thought to reduce inflammation and oxidative stress.[24] As we age, our motor function decreases and we become less able to recover after muscle injury. The ability to increase function and recovery times is important regardless of what physical activity you pursue.

As a side note, shorter more intense intervals may be better. Studies often show the most benefits in intervals that are 15 to 30 seconds long. That's because 15 to 30 seconds is about as long as the average person can do an all out sprint for, with oxygen stored in myoglobin only lasting about 5-15 seconds.[7] If you train yourself, you and become an elite athlete, you may be able to do an all out sprint for 60 seconds or so,according to some estimates.

[1] How Exercise Can Help Us Eat Less

[2] Leukocyte Telomere Length is Preserved with Aging in Endurance Exercise-Trained Adults and Related to Maximal Aerobic Capacity http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/...

[3] Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[4] Short-term sprint interval versus traditional endurance training: similar initial adaptations in human skeletal muscle and exercise performance

[5] High-Intensity Intermittent Exercise and Fat Loss

[6] Extremely short duration high intensity interval training substantially improves insulin action in young healthy males

[7] Astrand, I., & Astrand, P-O. (1960). Myohemoglobin as an oxygen-store in man. Acta Physiologica Scandinavica, 48, 454-460]

[8] The effects of regular strength trainin... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008]

[9] Driller Matthew, Fell James, Gregory John, Shing Cecilia, Williams Andrew (2009). "The effects of high-intensity interval training in well-trained rowers". International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance 4: 1. via High-intensity interval training

[10] Low-volume interval training improves muscle oxidative capacity in sedentary adults. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[11] The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise training on fat loss and fasting insulin levels of young women

[12] High-intensity intermittent exercise attenuates ad-libitum energy intake.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...

[13] The 24-h Energy Intake of Obese Adolescents Is Spontaneously Reduced after Intensive Exercise: A Randomized Controlled Trial in Calorimetric Chambers

[14] Physiological adaptations to low-volume, high-intensity interval training in health and disease

[15] Similar metabolic adaptations during exercise after low volume sprint interval and traditional endurance training in humans

[16] 4. King, J., Panton, L., Broeder, C., Browder, K., Quindry, J., & Rhea, L. (2001). A comparison of high intensity vs. low intensity exercise on body composition in overweight women. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 33, A2421

[17] Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. (1996). Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, 28, 1138-1143

[18] Christmass, M.A., Dawson, B., & Arthur, P.G. (1999). Effect of work and recovery duration on skeletal muscle oxygenation and fuel use during sustained intermittent exercise. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 80, 436-447

[19] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/20...

[20] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms. A practical model of low-volume high-intensity int... [J Physiol. 2010]

[21] Six sessions of sprint interval training increases muscle oxidative potential

and cycle endurance capacity in humans http://www.budopoint.de/en/scien...

[22] Ask Well: Long Runs vs. Sprints

[23] NRC Research Press - Scientific Publishing

[24] The physiological roles of Sirt1 in skeletal muscle

[25] A practical model of low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle: potential mechanisms

Well the scientific overhead is unnecessary, eat less or move more is it. And it is known since Millennia.

If HIIT works better and saves 3.25 min for the same calories is relative irrelevant.

Don't know why people like it difficult.....My grandma died of a lot weight 50 years ago when my grandpa had a girlfriend....she didn't know HIIT or proteins and carbs she just ate less and that is the point.

[konying]

Well I believe that the no fat (not low fat) milk doesn't contain fat, because the fat is very expensive, so they make profit by removing it.

The non fat milk is a very low value product at a very high price. So no point of cheating here, it is already a rip off....

It is not about the calories of the banana, it is about the carbs. Not 1 banana would be that bad but if I have the choice between the carbs in the banana and some wine on the evening the banana loose.

I am not sure I have seen no fat milk in Thailand , may be I have but did not pay attention .

The low fat is almost same price as normal, like 1 baht cheaper ( do not hold me to it, have not had milk for over a year )

If you are training regularly I can give you my pre Comp diet, but only if you training and doing cardio , otherwise you may gain.