Might help someone, lost 40kg in 6 months

[h90]

You are not mistaken.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10935129/Herbalife-boasts-big-rewards-for-sellers-but-is-it-a-pyramid-scheme.html

I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you PM the OP, he'll be glad to sell you some product and eventually add you below him on the MLM pyramid.

This thread should be deleted as spam IMAO, it reads like an advertisement. Lose 40kg with this one simple trick!

Don't think that any sane member with almost 3.000 posts would jeopardize his account being closed for running ads...

My two cents - low or no carb, no sugared sodas, no sweets for a few weeks while drinking enough water and doing just a bit of exercise worked great for me. 12 kilos in 7 weeks, felt great and did not miss a thing. Sadly, I am back to coke, italian food, wheat beer and snacks... time to start over again...

Thanks to the OP for this interesting thread! Great job! Congrats to your "loss"!

12 kg in 7 weeks? 1.7 kg per week?

I already find it hard to maintain a 1 kg per week.

1.7 would be 1700 kcal too less than you need per day

Dont forget at first you loose a lot of extra weight if you cut out carbs for instance.. then maybe cut out salt and loose even more. Not all weight that is lost is fat. Also some people have a heavier start weight. As I recall your not that big so in percentage its harder for you to loose weight.

You just can't easily compare it between people. I always found it frustrating when people lost more weight as me or faster. Now that i am on the right weight and have kept it off and build up a good physique I don't care anymore. I am learning to accept that everybody is different.

Everyone tells me that when you being you quickly loose 2-3 kg which are just water....I never do that. But I loose easily constant 0.8kg per week/10 days (with fluctuations....it sometimes sits on the same weight for some days and than in a rush is jumps down 1 kg), can do 1kg or more per week but that is getting increasingly difficult and crazy in the food plan.

True, I didn't see that from this point: If someone has the double weight than I have he can loose weight (calculated in kg) much faster as well.

[h90]

Well I believe that the no fat (not low fat) milk doesn't contain fat, because the fat is very expensive, so they make profit by removing it.

The non fat milk is a very low value product at a very high price. So no point of cheating here, it is already a rip off....

It is not about the calories of the banana, it is about the carbs. Not 1 banana would be that bad but if I have the choice between the carbs in the banana and some wine on the evening the banana loose.

I am not sure I have seen no fat milk in Thailand , may be I have but did not pay attention .

The low fat is almost same price as normal, like 1 baht cheaper ( do not hold me to it, have not had milk for over a year )

If you are training regularly I can give you my pre Comp diet, but only if you training and doing cardio , otherwise you may gain.

No cardio at the moment, I need to get some cheap street bike somewhere to mount on my trainer first. But else it is working OK at the moment....just not changing something that works very well.....So thanks for the offer but really I don't need it at the moment.

A while ago non fat milk was hard to find, now it is everywhere, also more difficult to find non fat yoghurt.

[jko]

Herbalife the target of Wall Street's largest short

Weight-loss and nutrition company Herbalife is at the centre of the biggest war on Wall Street.

Billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman has accused the company of being a pyramid scheme and criminal enterprise, and has taken out a $1 billion bet against Herbalife shares, which means he makes money if the stock price falls.

"They've got fake customers. These are not customers, these are people buying into a mini pyramid scheme.

There is nothing circumstantial about it - we've got facts," said Mr Ackman.

Full story: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/herbalife-wall-streets-largest-short/6498376

[konying]

Herbalife the target of Wall Street's largest short

Weight-loss and nutrition company Herbalife is at the centre of the biggest war on Wall Street.

Billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman has accused the company of being a pyramid scheme and criminal enterprise, and has taken out a $1 billion bet against Herbalife shares, which means he makes money if the stock price falls.

"They've got fake customers. These are not customers, these are people buying into a mini pyramid scheme.

There is nothing circumstantial about it - we've got facts," said Mr Ackman.

Full story: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/herbalife-wall-streets-largest-short/6498376

Their business plan is not in question here as already posted a number of times, their product works.

Worked for me anyway.

Am i a customer?, yes i am.

Am i interested in selling? no i am not

Did i have to register? no i did not, though main office did have all my info, so may be i did, without even knowing

[jagfx]

I think it is a bit rich to suggest that the OP was advertising Herbalife. From what I can gather, he is just a happy customer, as I once was, without trying to sell it to others. If something works, then you are going to tell the world as it may just help someone else, or even just get them motivated to at least try something, whether that be Herbalife or some other method eg HIT, 5/2 etc. Even when Herbalife cleared up my health issue, I would tell anyone that asked but I was a bit reluctant to push the issue too much as that was in the days when Herbalife was frowned upon. I had no intention of selling the stuff either, but was a happy user. I ended up buying it dirt cheap on eBay most of the time at prices that were very cheap. Possibly some did stock up their garage with it, with a business plan which didn't eventuate. Who knows.

The Primal Diet by Mark Sisson works for me and it is easy to manage once you get through the difficult first 10-14 days, especially if you are a big bread eater. Basically no wheat, pasta, potatoes, rice. No vegetable oils (hard in LOS), keep sugar to absolute min and best obtained through small amount of fruit. Eat plenty of meat, eggs and vegetables, especially green leafy ones. Bit of exercise but nothing too strenuous. Sounds as though it doesn't leave much food to eat, but you will be surprised when you actually get on it, it is quite enjoyable and you do tend to eat less due to not filling yourself with useless empty carbs. And who can complain about bacon and eggs for breakfast every day? Works for me, but not for everyone. Herbalife maybe your go

[NoshowJones]

I've lost 12 Kg in 4 months just by changing my diet .... no additional exercise . My diet is, of my daily calorie intake 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs .... read that again its by percentage of daily calorie intake. I use a website that has a calculator that tells you what the percentages are and you can add your weight etc to map the progress I'm aiming to lose another 20Kg by new year ... realistic goals.

On this diet I typically eat:

breakfast usually 2 fried eggs (in coconut oil), 1.5 rashes of bacon, a slice of cheese & 1 x tablespoon of sour cream + coffee with milk No sugar .... I use stevia. That gets me to

lunch where I have 25 gms raw macadamia nuts, 1 small can of tuna & a green salad + cup of tea with milk & no sugar

dinner maybe some fried fish or pork chops or chicken again in coconut oil (or in a curry but No rice), green vegies or a salad

sometimes an hour or so after dinner I will have 1/2 cup of greek style yoghurt with some coconut milk + 1/2 a small banana cut up in it

I also try to drink a few litres of water each day.

I'm losing weight and feeling great

here is the website I use if any one is interested .... its free and doesn't promote any products or diets

www.fatsecret.com

I'm in Australia so I put .au at the end

cheers

That's a good post Fireyfish, when I fry food which is not too often, I use olive oil. Can you tell me what coconut oil you use for frying?

[Fireyfish]

I've lost 12 Kg in 4 months just by changing my diet .... no additional exercise . My diet is, of my daily calorie intake 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs .... read that again its by percentage of daily calorie intake. I use a website that has a calculator that tells you what the percentages are and you can add your weight etc to map the progress I'm aiming to lose another 20Kg by new year ... realistic goals.

On this diet I typically eat:

breakfast usually 2 fried eggs (in coconut oil), 1.5 rashes of bacon, a slice of cheese & 1 x tablespoon of sour cream + coffee with milk No sugar .... I use stevia. That gets me to

lunch where I have 25 gms raw macadamia nuts, 1 small can of tuna & a green salad + cup of tea with milk & no sugar

dinner maybe some fried fish or pork chops or chicken again in coconut oil (or in a curry but No rice), green vegies or a salad

sometimes an hour or so after dinner I will have 1/2 cup of greek style yoghurt with some coconut milk + 1/2 a small banana cut up in it

I also try to drink a few litres of water each day.

I'm losing weight and feeling great

here is the website I use if any one is interested .... its free and doesn't promote any products or diets

www.fatsecret.com

I'm in Australia so I put .au at the end

cheers

That's a good post Fireyfish, when I fry food which is not too often, I use olive oil. Can you tell me what coconut oil you use for frying?

Hi Possum ... sounds like you may be an aussie too ... I use organic coconut oil brand name Spiral Foods in a 900gm jar but there are a number of others I cook only with coconut oil but I stir some into yoghurt sometimes and it solidifies as crunchy bits ... not bad ... I only use olive oil in salad dressings ... extra virgin of course ... this week I have lost another 0.5Kg.

I used to be a carb addict ... breads, pastas, rice , potatoes etc ..... once your body tunes in to the fact that carbs aren't coming on board anymore it uses fat for the fuel and you really start burning it off that process is called ketosis .... and if you can manage only 5% of your calories /day being from carbs (80% fat & 15% protein) you will stay in ketosis.

good luck .... its easy and you feel fantastic

[robblok]

I've lost 12 Kg in 4 months just by changing my diet .... no additional exercise . My diet is, of my daily calorie intake 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs .... read that again its by percentage of daily calorie intake. I use a website that has a calculator that tells you what the percentages are and you can add your weight etc to map the progress I'm aiming to lose another 20Kg by new year ... realistic goals.

On this diet I typically eat:

breakfast usually 2 fried eggs (in coconut oil), 1.5 rashes of bacon, a slice of cheese & 1 x tablespoon of sour cream + coffee with milk No sugar .... I use stevia. That gets me to

lunch where I have 25 gms raw macadamia nuts, 1 small can of tuna & a green salad + cup of tea with milk & no sugar

dinner maybe some fried fish or pork chops or chicken again in coconut oil (or in a curry but No rice), green vegies or a salad

sometimes an hour or so after dinner I will have 1/2 cup of greek style yoghurt with some coconut milk + 1/2 a small banana cut up in it

I also try to drink a few litres of water each day.

I'm losing weight and feeling great

here is the website I use if any one is interested .... its free and doesn't promote any products or diets

www.fatsecret.com

I'm in Australia so I put .au at the end

cheers

That's a good post Fireyfish, when I fry food which is not too often, I use olive oil. Can you tell me what coconut oil you use for frying?

Hi Possum ... sounds like you may be an aussie too ... I use organic coconut oil brand name Spiral Foods in a 900gm jar but there are a number of others I cook only with coconut oil but I stir some into yoghurt sometimes and it solidifies as crunchy bits ... not bad ... I only use olive oil in salad dressings ... extra virgin of course ... this week I have lost another 0.5Kg.

I used to be a carb addict ... breads, pastas, rice , potatoes etc ..... once your body tunes in to the fact that carbs aren't coming on board anymore it uses fat for the fuel and you really start burning it off that process is called ketosis .... and if you can manage only 5% of your calories /day being from carbs (80% fat & 15% protein) you will stay in ketosis.

good luck .... its easy and you feel fantastic

Tried it felt like crap, no need to cut out carbs totally. Just go to whole foods, plenty of good carbs too. I lost 25 kg and am quite lean now. In the end its all about eating less, looking at what you eat it certainly is less.

In the end it all works as long as you eat less as what you ate before. the biggest problems are sugars and carbs that are processed too much. As i workout hard I am high in proteins works for me.

Basically you see many people do different things, but in the end the thing that counts is to move away from carbs and sugars that are processed too much. Carbs as such (oats / wholewheat) are not bad at all (in moderation) sugars are bad. Of course this all depends on your body if your pre diabetic your diet will be easier if you cut out even more carbs. (but that is because your body is then in a bad state later you can add more carbs again).

People should understand that carbs are not bad, just the carbs that spike your insulin levels.. those are bad and those are the processed carbs. Though if you take 200 grams of oats your levels would spike too. Its about the quality and quantity of carbs. But most people are not smart enough to really understand this. That is why programs call for cutting out all carbs makes it easier to explain.

[NoshowJones]

Fireyfish, I do not and never have had a weight problem, at 6ft tall and 75 K, I'm happy to stay the way I am, except I would like to fry food just

a bit more often, I want to try coconut oil.

No I'm not an Aussie, I'm Scottish.

[jagfx]

Good post robblok. I agree, it is the crappy carbs you get from processed foods that are the no no. I did a lot of research a few years back just to get myself back on track healthwise. One thing I found interesting is that your body cannot survive without protein or fat, but can without carbs. Also that fat does not make you fat. Other things like the low fat diet is a load hogwash as when they remove the fat, they normally replace it with sugars or other chemicals etc.

You also make a good point about first getting yourself to a healthy position in life, and then adding carbs (good ones) back into your diet as your body will be better to cope with them. Also portion size in some western countries is getting ridiculously big, and if you are like me, if I pay for a meal then I feel obligated to eat it all. Back in Oz, years ago the wife and I would go out for pub meals where we would order a hamburger with the lot. This is a huge bread roll with meat, cheese, bacon, beetroot, onions, lettuce, pineapple and sauce that normally comes with a very generous helping of chips. We actually use to buy one and just share it, and that was enough. These days, we still buy the same meal but ask them to hold the bread roll and replace the chips with garden salad. Much better option and we also now get one each. Got rid of the crap and stay fuller for longer.

If anyone wants to look into this type of diet further, then I would suggest you Google people like Robb Wolff, Jimmy Moore, Mark Sisson, Paul Jaminet, Loren Cordain etc. Read books like Wheat Belly, Good Calories Bad Calories and the Perfect Health Diet. There is plenty out there. There are also plenty that disagree with this approach, but it has worked for thousands so there must be something in it. Cheers.

[robblok]

Good post robblok. I agree, it is the crappy carbs you get from processed foods that are the no no. I did a lot of research a few years back just to get myself back on track healthwise. One thing I found interesting is that your body cannot survive without protein or fat, but can without carbs. Also that fat does not make you fat. Other things like the low fat diet is a load hogwash as when they remove the fat, they normally replace it with sugars or other chemicals etc.

You also make a good point about first getting yourself to a healthy position in life, and then adding carbs (good ones) back into your diet as your body will be better to cope with them. Also portion size in some western countries is getting ridiculously big, and if you are like me, if I pay for a meal then I feel obligated to eat it all. Back in Oz, years ago the wife and I would go out for pub meals where we would order a hamburger with the lot. This is a huge bread roll with meat, cheese, bacon, beetroot, onions, lettuce, pineapple and sauce that normally comes with a very generous helping of chips. We actually use to buy one and just share it, and that was enough. These days, we still buy the same meal but ask them to hold the bread roll and replace the chips with garden salad. Much better option and we also now get one each. Got rid of the crap and stay fuller for longer.

If anyone wants to look into this type of diet further, then I would suggest you Google people like Robb Wolff, Jimmy Moore, Mark Sisson, Paul Jaminet, Loren Cordain etc. Read books like Wheat Belly, Good Calories Bad Calories and the Perfect Health Diet. There is plenty out there. There are also plenty that disagree with this approach, but it has worked for thousands so there must be something in it. Cheers.

Yes I am like you, i like to eat what i pay for its how I was raised. However I cook most of my food myself, recently even got my own bread machine (making wholewheat with nuts). I don't eat that much bread and on days that I eat bread I don't eat oats. I try to stay high in proteins and take my share of healthy fats.

Fat does not make us fat, its just real caloric dense so a little of it packs more of a punch as other foods. Thing is insulin spikes are bad (if too high) it could store fats when we need to burn it. That is why many advocate against carbs as carbs spike your insulin. However an insulin spike is normal thing to have (if within limits). However with high portions of processed carbs your spike will shoot through the roof. That is bad. just some normal carbs in your diet combined with proteins is not a problem at all.

From all the books that I read and stuff i researched I found that just eating less and healthier works great. I just really don't go for the no carbs anymore of any kind. But if it helps others.. let them be. I mean you can even loose weight on only eating Mc Donalds (as long as you take just one meal a day). There is just one way to loose weight and that is to eat less as before and how you do it that is up to you.

Sure there might be some differences in diets but there is no magic in any of it. The calories still count because if i wanted I could get real fat on no carbs (i love nuts and could easily eat half a kilo per day) Then I am not eating carbs but getting fat for sure. So its pointless to say that the energy contained in food suddenly does not count if you eat a certain way.

[Fireyfish]

Good post robblok. I agree, it is the crappy carbs you get from processed foods that are the no no. I did a lot of research a few years back just to get myself back on track healthwise. One thing I found interesting is that your body cannot survive without protein or fat, but can without carbs. Also that fat does not make you fat. Other things like the low fat diet is a load hogwash as when they remove the fat, they normally replace it with sugars or other chemicals etc.

You also make a good point about first getting yourself to a healthy position in life, and then adding carbs (good ones) back into your diet as your body will be better to cope with them. Also portion size in some western countries is getting ridiculously big, and if you are like me, if I pay for a meal then I feel obligated to eat it all. Back in Oz, years ago the wife and I would go out for pub meals where we would order a hamburger with the lot. This is a huge bread roll with meat, cheese, bacon, beetroot, onions, lettuce, pineapple and sauce that normally comes with a very generous helping of chips. We actually use to buy one and just share it, and that was enough. These days, we still buy the same meal but ask them to hold the bread roll and replace the chips with garden salad. Much better option and we also now get one each. Got rid of the crap and stay fuller for longer.

If anyone wants to look into this type of diet further, then I would suggest you Google people like Robb Wolff, Jimmy Moore, Mark Sisson, Paul Jaminet, Loren Cordain etc. Read books like Wheat Belly, Good Calories Bad Calories and the Perfect Health Diet. There is plenty out there. There are also plenty that disagree with this approach, but it has worked for thousands so there must be something in it. Cheers.

Yes I am like you, i like to eat what i pay for its how I was raised. However I cook most of my food myself, recently even got my own bread machine (making wholewheat with nuts). I don't eat that much bread and on days that I eat bread I don't eat oats. I try to stay high in proteins and take my share of healthy fats.

Fat does not make us fat, its just real caloric dense so a little of it packs more of a punch as other foods. Thing is insulin spikes are bad (if too high) it could store fats when we need to burn it. That is why many advocate against carbs as carbs spike your insulin. However an insulin spike is normal thing to have (if within limits). However with high portions of processed carbs your spike will shoot through the roof. That is bad. just some normal carbs in your diet combined with proteins is not a problem at all.

From all the books that I read and stuff i researched I found that just eating less and healthier works great. I just really don't go for the no carbs anymore of any kind. But if it helps others.. let them be. I mean you can even loose weight on only eating Mc Donalds (as long as you take just one meal a day). There is just one way to loose weight and that is to eat less as before and how you do it that is up to you.

Sure there might be some differences in diets but there is no magic in any of it. The calories still count because if i wanted I could get real fat on no carbs (i love nuts and could easily eat half a kilo per day) Then I am not eating carbs but getting fat for sure. So its pointless to say that the energy contained in food suddenly does not count if you eat a certain way.

[Fireyfish]

Nuts don't contain carbs ? is that what you are saying ? ..... I didn't say I don't eat carbs ... just a small amount per % of daily calories ... I eat green vegies, berries, nuts cheese, yoghurt ... no sugar or as little as possible anyway as you say whatever works for you .... ! was 138 kg last christmas, on boxing day i started into looking at what and how I ate 6 months later I have lost 14 kg .... and I know by next christmas I will bee less than 110Kg ... thats my goal at least.

best wishes to all the fatties that are working on losing weight .....

[fishbrando]

I guess it's a good thing you read the OP and paid attention

Yes, I'm always on alert when I think I'm being spammed.

1. In my experience, if I had the time to hit the gym I would not have needed hl, nor would I have had gained the weight

I never once went to the gym - I did the HIIT in 20 minutes in my apartment. All you need is a timer or, even better, a HIIT timer app on your phone.

The lovely Zuzka Light has plenty of HIIT videos on Youtube that you can follow, and she's quite easy on the eyes as a bonus.

2. If I did not suffer injuries and still suffer from pain after surgeries , again I would not have had the need to loose weight.

That is a bigger problem. Intermittent fasting alone might help people in the same situation.

But your suggestion for overweight people to hit the gym or sprint ? And that's easy? You call 75kg to be overweight?

Come back once you experience 129kg and then tell me again to sprint.

You asked what worked for me and I told you. Hopefully there are some people who might benefit.

Going from 75kg to 59kg was basically going from somewhat overweight to ripped. Believe me, losing weight to the point of being ripped is much harder than just losing weight in general. Those last few kilos are very difficult to drop.

Again, one doesn't need to hit the gym or sprint to do HIIT. That's the beauty of it - there are so many different ways to do HIIT, and it takes 20 minutes out of your day max (plus warmup, getting ready, showering afterwards, stretching, etc).

Rowing on the rowing machine is actually a fantastic HIIT workout and is good for overweight people as well.

[fishbrando]

I think it is a bit rich to suggest that the OP was advertising Herbalife. From what I can gather, he is just a happy customer, as I once was, without trying to sell it to others. If something works, then you are going to tell the world as it may just help someone else, or even just get them motivated to at least try something, whether that be Herbalife or some other method eg HIT, 5/2 etc. Even when Herbalife cleared up my health issue, I would tell anyone that asked but I was a bit reluctant to push the issue too much as that was in the days when Herbalife was frowned upon. I had no intention of selling the stuff either, but was a happy user. I ended up buying it dirt cheap on eBay most of the time at prices that were very cheap. Possibly some did stock up their garage with it, with a business plan which didn't eventuate. Who knows.

The problem with MLM products like Herbalife is that people sell it by bringing it up in exactly the way that OP did - they sell to their friends, neighbors, coworkers, associates, and anyone who they might communicate with, basically becoming human spam.

That's why you should always be on edge when people purport to be a "happy customer" of an MLM product and gush about how it has changed their life.

For this reason I'll never purchase a MLM product, no matter how good it is, because these companies turn people into human spam.

Check out the blog "Married to an Ambot" for stories along these lines. The most recent post talks about how they were invited by friends to a small dinner and it turned into a bit Amway sales pitch.

[fishbrando]

Well the scientific overhead is unnecessary, eat less or move more is it. And it is known since Millennia.

If HIIT works better and saves 3.25 min for the same calories is relative irrelevant.

Don't know why people like it difficult.....My grandma died of a lot weight 50 years ago when my grandpa had a girlfriend....she didn't know HIIT or proteins and carbs she just ate less and that is the point.

This attitude honestly baffles me. It's like saying we've known how to build huge buildings since the days of the Egyptian pyramids - just get a bunch of guys to move big blocks around. Why make it difficult with the scientific overhead of steel girders and modern engineering?

Everyone knows that you lose weight by eating less and exercising. We're talking about methods that improve upon that.

If you believe the HIIT studies, you'll see that it is just as effective in a quarter of the time. If you've got plenty of time to exercise and nothing better to do, more power to you.

As an example, there was a 460 pound man who decided to quit everything and walk across the USA - I believe his blog is called "Fat Man Walking". This is an effective way to lose weight, but not necessarily time-efficient.

[jagfx]

fishbrando,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I've had mates do the Amway sales pitch on me and it wasn't appreciated. But having said that, I've had mates that have been exceptionally happy using MLM type products but have never said boo about them unless prompted. This was the same for me and Herbalife. Not everyone is out to make a buck on these products. Like I said earlier, you could probably get their stuff way cheaper on eBay. But some of these MLM products actually do some people some good, so it is not all doom and gloom rip off type things. People have to make their own informed decisions and if it works for them, and it does cost a few extra dollars (and they are happy to pay it), and some upline makes a commission out of it, then I can't see what the problem is. Hell Tesco will take a cut from things they sell via a wholesaler, so it is same same as long as you don't get caught up in the hype etc. But I do take your point, and it is good to warn others. Cheers.

[konying]

fishbrando,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I've had mates do the Amway sales pitch on me and it wasn't appreciated. But having said that, I've had mates that have been exceptionally happy using MLM type products but have never said boo about them unless prompted. This was the same for me and Herbalife. Not everyone is out to make a buck on these products. Like I said earlier, you could probably get their stuff way cheaper on eBay. But some of these MLM products actually do some people some good, so it is not all doom and gloom rip off type things. People have to make their own informed decisions and if it works for them, and it does cost a few extra dollars (and they are happy to pay it), and some upline makes a commission out of it, then I can't see what the problem is. Hell Tesco will take a cut from things they sell via a wholesaler, so it is same same as long as you don't get caught up in the hype etc. But I do take your point, and it is good to warn others. Cheers.

MLM companies do not grow into multi billion Giants selling crap.

There sure are alternatives to their products just as there are different brands.

Some people are just so paranoid that they usually hide from their own shadow.

Naturally if a skinny guy was invited to a sales pitch for loosing weight it would be a waste of time . For an overweight guy the only risk would be few dollars to test out the product.

Worst case, no fat loss, best case weight loss .

Not exactly like forcing someone to eat dog crap

Amway, sells one of the best cleaning products.

[h90]

Well the scientific overhead is unnecessary, eat less or move more is it. And it is known since Millennia.

If HIIT works better and saves 3.25 min for the same calories is relative irrelevant.

Don't know why people like it difficult.....My grandma died of a lot weight 50 years ago when my grandpa had a girlfriend....she didn't know HIIT or proteins and carbs she just ate less and that is the point.

This attitude honestly baffles me. It's like saying we've known how to build huge buildings since the days of the Egyptian pyramids - just get a bunch of guys to move big blocks around. Why make it difficult with the scientific overhead of steel girders and modern engineering?

Everyone knows that you lose weight by eating less and exercising. We're talking about methods that improve upon that.

If you believe the HIIT studies, you'll see that it is just as effective in a quarter of the time. If you've got plenty of time to exercise and nothing better to do, more power to you.

As an example, there was a 460 pound man who decided to quit everything and walk across the USA - I believe his blog is called "Fat Man Walking". This is an effective way to lose weight, but not necessarily time-efficient.

Yes you can have it easier or more difficult. Cutting out the sugar and processed food makes it much easier.

But everything else has just minor effects. People individually like different things. If you don't like HIIT than it is way less efficient than walking in the park, because you won't do it.

[fishbrando]

MLM companies do not grow into multi billion Giants selling crap.

There sure are alternatives to their products just as there are different brands.

It's not all crap. I've tried some Amway stuff and it's decent.

The problem is that, instead of competing on the open market, MLM companies instead build a cult-like distribution channel that only consumes their product, basically becoming a monopoly. Thus their product is almost guaranteed to be, dollar for dollar, worse than normal products that have to actually compete on quality and price.

Naturally if a skinny guy was invited to a sales pitch for loosing weight it would be a waste of time . For an overweight guy the only risk would be few dollars to test out the product.

Worst case, no fat loss, best case weight loss .

Not exactly like forcing someone to eat dog crap

This is a very strange point to make - you could basically say it about anything.

Buy a camera. Worst case, bad photos, best case, good photos. For a photographer, the only risk would be a few hundred dollars to test out the product.

Except the worst case is not bad photos, it's the fact that you wasted your money and time when you could have bought something good.

[fishbrando]

Yes you can have it easier or more difficult. Cutting out the sugar and processed food makes it much easier.

But everything else has just minor effects.

I agree, it is true that diet trumps all when it comes to weight loss.

People individually like different things. If you don't like HIIT than it is way less efficient than walking in the park, because you won't do it.

You can say "people individually like different things" to justify anything.

What is interesting is what the majority of people like, and the majority of people would like to spend less time exercising, not more.

[konying]

MLM companies do not grow into multi billion Giants selling crap.

There sure are alternatives to their products just as there are different brands.

It's not all crap. I've tried some Amway stuff and it's decent.

The problem is that, instead of competing on the open market, MLM companies instead build a cult-like distribution channel that only consumes their product, basically becoming a monopoly. Thus their product is almost guaranteed to be, dollar for dollar, worse than normal products that have to actually compete on quality and price.

Naturally if a skinny guy was invited to a sales pitch for loosing weight it would be a waste of time . For an overweight guy the only risk would be few dollars to test out the product.

Worst case, no fat loss, best case weight loss .

Not exactly like forcing someone to eat dog crap

This is a very strange point to make - you could basically say it about anything.

Buy a camera. Worst case, bad photos, best case, good photos. For a photographer, the only risk would be a few hundred dollars to test out the product.

Except the worst case is not bad photos, it's the fact that you wasted your money and time when you could have bought something good.

You not liking their marketing system has very little to do with their products and yet you seem to do nothing but bash the products because you do not like their marketing system.

Their marketing system works, clearly since companies are worth billions.

Take HL for example, they could put it on the shelves of each supermarket spend billions on advertising and promotions and then....????

Furthermore, say if you knew me personally and i used it and lost weight, you saw me 6 months later and were shocked how much weight i lost, would you trust to buy product from me seeing its real life results, or would you run to the supermarket looking through at least a dozen of products promising you would loose weight?

I know what my answer would be

I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing.

Would i suggest you doing the same? May be if i hated you

You are comparing apples with oranges. To start with a can of shake does not cost as much as a camera, secondly if someone showed you the difference of camera's and its features, it would be your choice and your choice only which camera to buy.

I personally could not care less if you went and bought/used Herbal life, because even if i owned shares in it, your $100 or so dollars would not make any difference.

If i was trying to sell it to you, i would also post pics of what i looked like before and what i look like now.

I would have also said, to PM for details, instead of breaking down my entire eating regime.

Prior to starting HL, i did some research and did note in my OP "despite all the negative comments, i decided to try "

Why did you decide to try? because none of the comments stated people failed to loose weight.

Most comments were just like yours, about marketing structure and that people gained weight after stopping it.

No one complained that it did not work.

I saw it as an easy way to loose weight without doing any work, no exercise, no cooking, no calorie watching, no carb watching or protein intakes.

I started to notice the difference after about 7-10 days from memory, so i stuck with it.

There are millions of different diets out there and millions more fat people who WANT to loose weight but either lazy or unmotivated or no time or just out right scared.

HL was just too easy. It really is as easy as 1,2,3

And the best part FOR ME was that i did not and do not have to watch calories, i still eat my favorite food on daily basis, and i am sure for many people it is a bonus.

Now if you not interested in HL, just make another thread and write about your diet, Mine was intended to help people who are overweight and are either afraid, lazy, unmotivated or uncertain where or how to start, just as i was.

The difference is, i was a bodybuilder and know my diets, but let myself go and did not have the time, nor the health to start training or spent half my days preparing my meals, measuring exact rice and chicken amounts.

[h90]

Yes you can have it easier or more difficult. Cutting out the sugar and processed food makes it much easier.

But everything else has just minor effects.

I agree, it is true that diet trumps all when it comes to weight loss.

People individually like different things. If you don't like HIIT than it is way less efficient than walking in the park, because you won't do it.

You can say "people individually like different things" to justify anything.

What is interesting is what the majority of people like, and the majority of people would like to spend less time exercising, not more.

Yes indeed it justifies anything.....that is life.

I strongly doubt that the majority want to save 5 min but torture themself to extreme pain. The majority sure don't like HIIT. They but they would walk 1 hour in the park. 1 hour in the park is 100 % more efficient than not doing the HIIT because it is too hard.

These studies are a bit like masturbating.....someone proof that what they like it is the best, but it is no real life solution and it doesn't help someone overweight at all. It more distract from the real things.

[h90]

MLM companies do not grow into multi billion Giants selling crap.

There sure are alternatives to their products just as there are different brands.

It's not all crap. I've tried some Amway stuff and it's decent.

The problem is that, instead of competing on the open market, MLM companies instead build a cult-like distribution channel that only consumes their product, basically becoming a monopoly. Thus their product is almost guaranteed to be, dollar for dollar, worse than normal products that have to actually compete on quality and price.

Naturally if a skinny guy was invited to a sales pitch for loosing weight it would be a waste of time . For an overweight guy the only risk would be few dollars to test out the product.

Worst case, no fat loss, best case weight loss .

Not exactly like forcing someone to eat dog crap

This is a very strange point to make - you could basically say it about anything.

Buy a camera. Worst case, bad photos, best case, good photos. For a photographer, the only risk would be a few hundred dollars to test out the product.

Except the worst case is not bad photos, it's the fact that you wasted your money and time when you could have bought something good.

You not liking their marketing system has very little to do with their products and yet you seem to do nothing but bash the products because you do not like their marketing system.

Their marketing system works, clearly since companies are worth billions.

Take HL for example, they could put it on the shelves of each supermarket spend billions on advertising and promotions and then....????

Furthermore, say if you knew me personally and i used it and lost weight, you saw me 6 months later and were shocked how much weight i lost, would you trust to buy product from me seeing its real life results, or would you run to the supermarket looking through at least a dozen of products promising you would loose weight?

I know what my answer would be

I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing.

Would i suggest you doing the same? May be if i hated you

You are comparing apples with oranges. To start with a can of shake does not cost as much as a camera, secondly if someone showed you the difference of camera's and its features, it would be your choice and your choice only which camera to buy.

I personally could not care less if you went and bought/used Herbal life, because even if i owned shares in it, your $100 or so dollars would not make any difference.

If i was trying to sell it to you, i would also post pics of what i looked like before and what i look like now.

I would have also said, to PM for details, instead of breaking down my entire eating regime.

Prior to starting HL, i did some research and did note in my OP "despite all the negative comments, i decided to try "

Why did you decide to try? because none of the comments stated people failed to loose weight.

Most comments were just like yours, about marketing structure and that people gained weight after stopping it.

No one complained that it did not work.

I saw it as an easy way to loose weight without doing any work, no exercise, no cooking, no calorie watching, no carb watching or protein intakes.

I started to notice the difference after about 7-10 days from memory, so i stuck with it.

There are millions of different diets out there and millions more fat people who WANT to loose weight but either lazy or unmotivated or no time or just out right scared.

HL was just too easy. It really is as easy as 1,2,3

And the best part FOR ME was that i did not and do not have to watch calories, i still eat my favorite food on daily basis, and i am sure for many people it is a bonus.

Now if you not interested in HL, just make another thread and write about your diet, Mine was intended to help people who are overweight and are either afraid, lazy, unmotivated or uncertain where or how to start, just as i was.

The difference is, i was a bodybuilder and know my diets, but let myself go and did not have the time, nor the health to start training or spent half my days preparing my meals, measuring exact rice and chicken amounts.

But surely you know: "I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing."

There are chemical helps that DO work, but they aren't sold in pharmacies in Oz and we should not discuss them here.

But bodybuilder and celebrities use them a lot. They all have lot of danger inside and of course you still need a diet.

[konying]

But surely you know: "I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing."

There are chemical helps that DO work, but they aren't sold in pharmacies in Oz and we should not discuss them here.

But bodybuilder and celebrities use them a lot. They all have lot of danger inside and of course you still need a diet.

Of course i do

Remember my point about the health issue's? would not have been a very wise choice to use that , not to mention it still requires regular exercise.

Swiss Doc, in Pattaya did have on offer, from memory i think was called Mytol or something, which suppose to work very well but again MUST exercise.

[Tonto21]

First of all, well done 'Konying' it is never easy to get the pork off once it's on as we get older.

The thing I find about losing weight is its very personal, and in that I mean what suites one just doesn't work for another.

I'm now 58 and considering I have one toe in the pine box..... I'm still pretty fit, but overweigh, but I know my weight drags me down, I was like you in a way when younger I was very fit, keeped my fitness up by motocross and Endure racing after leaving the services...... But I like my food.

I, like you have found something that seems to press my button as far as losing weight........ Long story short I bought a 'Juicer', not a blender....... cost around 6K, a Philips.

The weight is falling off.... I also now drink water all the time, I think like a lot of people, we just don't drink enough water each day, my wife says the transformation in my face...(for the better) is amazing, a lot of little lines and blemishes have disappeared, those that remain have thinned right out, (I'm still no Brad Pitt)

I start my day when I wake with a large glass or small bottle of water....When I started I had to force this down as my body didn't want it.....Now its fine,,,,,15 mins or so later BIG coffee with honey, milk.....Love my coffee in the morning! Then around 10is my juice, ..... I won't list what you can put in.....use your imagination, but carrots are always handy, if I'm feeling a bit hungry I will add a low fat yogurt.. (not in the blender....in the jug the juice pours into and just mix it in....... That should do you for the day, if you get hungry eat an apple.....if going out take an apple. OK, evening meal, this falls into one of two for me with variations on both. The one meal is a cooked meal, at least 3 veg broccoli, carrots and cabbage, normally with a small boiled chicken breast and gravy,,,,, Got to have some gravy......The other meal is a salad.... Again use your imagination, All washed down with lots of fresh water..... One more thing I have found this works very well... Don't eat off a dinner plate, use a side plate, about the size they give you in 'Sizzler for salad bar.... It sounds a bit daft but it works.

I'm a little peeved at the moment as I've just had cataract and lens replacement surgery, so I can't excise as well at the moment, I only managed to get about 4 seasons in before the surgery, however I'm very pleased so far, just short of 7Kgs in 2 weeks and I feel fantastic not just that I've already not looking like a 'space hopper' but I also feel a lot, lot more awake and sharper in my thinking.

Sorry 'Konying' if you feel I'm trying to high jack your topic, I'm really not mate. But as you said it my help someone.

So from one porker to another if your feed up with the way you feel being overweigh............ go for it, just remember it will not always be easy, you will hit speed bumps, losing pork starts with your mind set not your knife and fork.

[h90]

But surely you know: "I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing."

There are chemical helps that DO work, but they aren't sold in pharmacies in Oz and we should not discuss them here.

But bodybuilder and celebrities use them a lot. They all have lot of danger inside and of course you still need a diet.

Of course i do

Remember my point about the health issue's? would not have been a very wise choice to use that , not to mention it still requires regular exercise.

Swiss Doc, in Pattaya did have on offer, from memory i think was called Mytol or something, which suppose to work very well but again MUST exercise.

Well Dinitrophenol works without exercise, but death as side effect is a bit scary

[robblok]

But surely you know: "I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing."

There are chemical helps that DO work, but they aren't sold in pharmacies in Oz and we should not discuss them here.

But bodybuilder and celebrities use them a lot. They all have lot of danger inside and of course you still need a diet.

Of course i do

Remember my point about the health issue's? would not have been a very wise choice to use that , not to mention it still requires regular exercise.

Swiss Doc, in Pattaya did have on offer, from memory i think was called Mytol or something, which suppose to work very well but again MUST exercise.

Well Dinitrophenol works without exercise, but death as side effect is a bit scary

I tried it.. not a good drug to use in Thailand. But it is effective. Not good for your personal life either.

[h90]

But surely you know: "I remember going to pharmacy back in Oz and buying fat burners which suppose to absorb fat and all the rest. Stocked up, ate all of it and lost nothing."

There are chemical helps that DO work, but they aren't sold in pharmacies in Oz and we should not discuss them here.

But bodybuilder and celebrities use them a lot. They all have lot of danger inside and of course you still need a diet.

Of course i do

Remember my point about the health issue's? would not have been a very wise choice to use that , not to mention it still requires regular exercise.

Swiss Doc, in Pattaya did have on offer, from memory i think was called Mytol or something, which suppose to work very well but again MUST exercise.

Well Dinitrophenol works without exercise, but death as side effect is a bit scary

I tried it.. not a good drug to use in Thailand. But it is effective. Not good for your personal life either.

There are all the time people in the news who try to increase the dose.

Than this side effect happens.....Way to risk for the common person.....But it does work in a beautiful way.

Should combine it with a winter holiday in Novosibirsk...

[fishbrando]

Their marketing system works, clearly since companies are worth billions.

So is the Church of Scientology - it doesn't mean they're good.

I think their marketing system preys on the needy and gullible using cult-like techniques. I don't care if it works - it's not something I want to support.

Take HL for example, they could put it on the shelves of each supermarket spend billions on advertising and promotions and then....????

And then they'd be competing with other products. If they were good, they'd survive. If they were bad, they'd fail.

Since they are not competing, we've no idea how they stack up to other products. Probably not well, dollar for dollar.

Plenty of companies don't put any money into advertising and marketing. Rooster brand sriracha sauce is an example. Supermarkets stock it because it is good and they know it will sell. Not the same for Herbalife product, I'm afraid.

Furthermore, say if you knew me personally and i used it and lost weight, you saw me 6 months later and were shocked how much weight i lost, would you trust to buy product from me seeing its real life results, or would you run to the supermarket looking through at least a dozen of products promising you would loose weight?

If you said you lost weight using a type of product, then yes, I'd do what everyone else does and compare prices across brands for that type of product in the supermarket and online.

If you said you lost weight using a unique Herbalife formula, I'd be more suspicious. If it is so great, why aren't others trying to duplicate it? It's a competitive world out there. Do you think they have some great secret that no one knows about? Even Coca cola gets imitated and duplicated, and their formula is top secret. Heck, even complex drugs like Viagra get produced by generic drug producers in India.

You are comparing apples with oranges. To start with a can of shake does not cost as much as a camera, secondly if someone showed you the difference of camera's and its features, it would be your choice and your choice only which camera to buy.

Apples to apples. All products have features, and money is money whether small or large.

Churchill: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?”

Socialite: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…”

Churchill: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?”

Socialite: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!”

Churchill: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.”