How Thailand Perceives the Massive Influx of Digital Nomads

[louse1953]

ive got a website now,

am i a digital nomad,?

if so bloody hell baby........

Naah Jake, you an offshore pig farmer

Just as illegal as a digital nomad and so are many others who work here without the correct visa.

Jake doesn't work here, Jake has a proper job outside of Thailand and his pig farming is a hobby and there is nothing illegal about having a hobby or keeping pets

even if you do eat them on occasion for breakfast

1. Jake earns his living to support his life style in Thailand by working a job outside Thailand and one presumes he pays his tax outside Thailand

2. I understand Jake is married and has a visa/extension which reflects this

3. Jake has a hobby of raising pigs from which he makes sausage and other piggy products for his own consumption

So tell me again about someone working here without a correct visa ?...hope your post isn't a precursor to launching headlong into another Anti-British diatribe

Your working for him as his PR man though!!!

[Soutpeel]

Your working for him as his PR man though!!!

I have a WP...wanna see it ?

[robblok]

Your working for him as his PR man though!!!

I have a WP...wanna see it ?

Sure but i bet PR man is not in the work description. Lock you up and throw away the key seems just punishment for such a huge infringement.

[robblok]

For all those talking about the elite visa, quite right certainly a good one for the more successful digital nomad however its no different then staying on an other visa it still does not make it legal.

If it would make it legal.. wow good option because if that is all that needs to be paid its nothing compared to what is saved on taxes.

[robblok]

So now it's so widespread they're making videos. Rub it in their face and a crackdown is guaranteed. If they figure out a way to make some tea money out of it, those crackdowns will become regular issue.

Seems to me, if people keep their mouths shut and get on with things, that's one thing....but advertising like this head job is doing will only make it end badly as he is drawing attention to it and there will be a reaction eventually

Very difficult to crackdown directly on these sorts of things, so all they will do is hit the visa's, as most of these DM's are on visa wavier's/ Ed visa's etc, so that's the easiest way to get at them

If I was a digital nomad I would not want to be on an ED visa, it will cut into your working hours because you do have to be at school.

For digital nomads of over 50 there is also the retirement visa, i know of crooked immigration officers so the 800.000 does not have to be in the bank. Personally I would never risk that (and I am not that old)

[Soutpeel]

For all those talking about the elite visa, quite right certainly a good one for the more successful digital nomad however its no different then staying on an other visa it still does not make it legal.

If it would make it legal.. wow good option because if that is all that needs to be paid its nothing compared to what is saved on taxes.

your correct having a TE visa doesn't make operating and working in a business in Thailand legal, but I do believe in the literature on TE there is talk to TE facilitating a WP

how this works I am not sure, but know it does mention it

[robblok]

For all those talking about the elite visa, quite right certainly a good one for the more successful digital nomad however its no different then staying on an other visa it still does not make it legal.

If it would make it legal.. wow good option because if that is all that needs to be paid its nothing compared to what is saved on taxes.

your correct having a TE visa doesn't make operating and working in a business in Thailand legal, but I do believe in the literature on TE there is talk to TE facilitating a WP

how this works I am not sure, but know it does mention it

If it facilitates a WP then it would be a great visa. You have to understand for many digital nomads who are not from native English speaking countries and do their work exclusively for people in those countries its impossible to hire 4 Thais and let them do work. (productive work that is). I know people with companies who would love to hire some Thai but to find one that speaks their native language and has the skill set needed would be impossible (at normal rates)

[Soutpeel]

For all those talking about the elite visa, quite right certainly a good one for the more successful digital nomad however its no different then staying on an other visa it still does not make it legal.

If it would make it legal.. wow good option because if that is all that needs to be paid its nothing compared to what is saved on taxes.

your correct having a TE visa doesn't make operating and working in a business in Thailand legal, but I do believe in the literature on TE there is talk to TE facilitating a WP

how this works I am not sure, but know it does mention it

If it facilitates a WP then it would be a great visa. You have to understand for many digital nomads who are not from native English speaking countries and do their work exclusively for people in those countries its impossible to hire 4 Thais and let them do work. (productive work that is). I know people with companies who would love to hire some Thai but to find one that speaks their native language and has the skill set needed would be impossible (at normal rates)

the minute your employing people your no longer a DM, your definitely running a Thai based business and the fact its Thai nationals, you need to be set up under the current Ltd company structure as there is unemployment to be paid for employees, employees fall under the Thai labour rules etc

I understand the concept of running a one man band DM thing, your taking about a full blown company based in Thailand, completely different thing

your confusing two very different concepts.

[squarethecircle]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

Well no offense to Thailand but that amounts to around 500 baht a day. Over 10 dollars. Just for a visa. With that amount you can easily pay for airfares around the world, and solid rentals. Hell if you stay in Asia that's enough to travel around every month, using business class. Why pay for an Elite visa? Sounds like the biggest ripoff, if you're actually generating the cash using your own efforts.

Would be interesting to find a list of Elite class people. Sounds kind of like a scam or legal form of bribery. Over 15,000 us dollars for a temporary visa???

[timmyp]

Yes...it involves registering with the government a thing called a Ltd company and investing a small amount of money, employing a few people, and getting a WP and paying income Tax and you will get a visa every year for the rest of your life if you want it

Yes: get your friend to pay to form a limited company, rent an office and pay every month to employ 4 Thai people he doesn't need to sit in it. Then he must get to work earning enough to cover that overhead plus make his own minimum salary every month otherwise he won't have a work permit. The government know about him now, so he had better be careful if he can't afford to keep doing it this way.

Or your friend could pay an agency to pretend he works for them then they will pay his own earnings back to him as salary minus their own fees of course. Completely fake and some skimmer outfit taking advantage which I hate.

Or your friend could keep his head down and make sure nobody outside his house knows he is working.

I wonder which one he will choose.

My friend will appreciate your empathy, EnglishJohn.

My friend is aware of how to set up a company, and of other such avenues that wouldn't really be legitimate in the end. I thought Soutpeel was talking about something that was specific for digital nomads, some new visa option newly set up.

About declaring a company: Hiring any employees, let alone as many as 4, doesn't seem realistic requirement for someone who works alone. In order to hire a foreign employee and provide a work visa (for the digital nomad), the small amount of money Southpeel mentioned is 2 million baht, and I believe that has to sit in the bank year round? That's not a small amount of money to just sit, and it doesn't seem like a realistic requirement either.

If the government wants to get its cut, which I believe it is entitled to, then it should set up a more realistic solution. Of course its their country and the government can have any rules they want about immigration. But if they want to solve the problem in this video (and honestly, the only real problem mentioned in that video is taxes), then I encourage them to look for more realistic visa options instead of the muck-raking about older men hitting on young girls and people not attending Thai class. They might as well have thrown in "unsightly dress" and drunken behaviour.

[Soutpeel]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

Well no offense to Thailand but that amounts to around 500 baht a day. Over 10 dollars. Just for a visa. With that amount you can easily pay for airfares around the world, and solid rentals. Hell if you stay in Asia that's enough to travel around every month, using business class. Why pay for an Elite visa? Sounds like the biggest ripoff, if you're actually generating the cash using your own efforts.

Would be interesting to find a list of Elite class people. Sounds kind of like a scam or legal form of bribery. Over 15,000 us dollars for a temporary visa???

Actually on current exchange rates its THB 260/day and its a visa that last for 5 years and BTW all visa's are temporary, its not a scam or legal form of bribery, its a legitimate program and hardly a rip off....for the right person it very good value for money

looking for a list, ask on TV there are few who have this and some even have the full 20 year program and to date haven't read a bad review from people who have actually spent the money...the ones who piss on the program are the ones who typically cant afford it in the first place

[Soutpeel]

Yes...it involves registering with the government a thing called a Ltd company and investing a small amount of money, employing a few people, and getting a WP and paying income Tax and you will get a visa every year for the rest of your life if you want it

Yes: get your friend to pay to form a limited company, rent an office and pay every month to employ 4 Thai people he doesn't need to sit in it. Then he must get to work earning enough to cover that overhead plus make his own minimum salary every month otherwise he won't have a work permit. The government know about him now, so he had better be careful if he can't afford to keep doing it this way.

Or your friend could pay an agency to pretend he works for them then they will pay his own earnings back to him as salary minus their own fees of course. Completely fake and some skimmer outfit taking advantage which I hate.

Or your friend could keep his head down and make sure nobody outside his house knows he is working.

I wonder which one he will choose.

My friend will appreciate your empathy, EnglishJohn.

My friend is aware of how to set up a company, and of other such avenues that wouldn't really be legitimate in the end. I thought Soutpeel was talking about something that was specific for digital nomads, some new visa option newly set up.

About declaring a company: Hiring any employees, let alone as many as 4, doesn't seem realistic requirement for someone who works alone. In order to hire a foreign employee and provide a work visa (for the digital nomad), the small amount of money Southpeel mentioned is 2 million baht, and I believe that has to sit in the bank year round? That's not a small amount of money to just sit, and it doesn't seem like a realistic requirement either.

If the government wants to get its cut, which I believe it is entitled to, then it should set up a more realistic solution. Of course its their country and the government can have any rules they want about immigration. But if they want to solve the problem in this video (and honestly, the only real problem mentioned in that video is taxes), then I encourage them to look for more realistic visa options instead of the muck-raking about older men hitting on young girls and people not attending Thai class. They might as well have thrown in "unsightly dress" and drunken behaviour.

"your friend"

The 2.0 million doesnt sit in a bank, the Ltd company is capitalised for THB 2.0 million, typically you can set up a limited company in Thailand for in the order of THB 100k cash... all these self proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs" running around and they don't know what capitalisation of a company is ?

[timmyp]

If the government wants to get its cut, which I believe it is entitled to, then it should set up a more realistic solution. Of course its their country and the government can have any rules they want about immigration. But if they want to solve the problem in this video (and honestly, the only real problem mentioned in that video is taxes), then I encourage them to look for more realistic visa options instead of the muck-raking about older men hitting on young girls and people not attending Thai class. They might as well have thrown in "unsightly dress" and drunken behaviour.

"your friend"

The 2.0 million doesnt sit in a bank, the Ltd company is capitalised for THB 2.0 million, typically you can set up a limited company in Thailand for in the order of THB 100k cash... all these self proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs" running around and they don't know what capitalisation of a company is ?

Yes, "my friend", Soutpeel. Your assumption is as clever as your argumentative and condescending discourse.

2.0 million THB for capitalisation is still a mighty high bar, and not a solution, as I indicated for the other reasons in my post.

Not sure why you think these digital nomads are self-proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs", they are freelance workers: computer programmers, architects, graphic designers, translators, etc.

I'm not sure which emoticon image to choose to express "why are you so ornery, you oughta take it down a notch", but the Prozac pill gif isn't offered.

[robblok]

Yes...it involves registering with the government a thing called a Ltd company and investing a small amount of money, employing a few people, and getting a WP and paying income Tax and you will get a visa every year for the rest of your life if you want it

Yes: get your friend to pay to form a limited company, rent an office and pay every month to employ 4 Thai people he doesn't need to sit in it. Then he must get to work earning enough to cover that overhead plus make his own minimum salary every month otherwise he won't have a work permit. The government know about him now, so he had better be careful if he can't afford to keep doing it this way.

Or your friend could pay an agency to pretend he works for them then they will pay his own earnings back to him as salary minus their own fees of course. Completely fake and some skimmer outfit taking advantage which I hate.

Or your friend could keep his head down and make sure nobody outside his house knows he is working.

I wonder which one he will choose.

My friend will appreciate your empathy, EnglishJohn.

My friend is aware of how to set up a company, and of other such avenues that wouldn't really be legitimate in the end. I thought Soutpeel was talking about something that was specific for digital nomads, some new visa option newly set up.

About declaring a company: Hiring any employees, let alone as many as 4, doesn't seem realistic requirement for someone who works alone. In order to hire a foreign employee and provide a work visa (for the digital nomad), the small amount of money Southpeel mentioned is 2 million baht, and I believe that has to sit in the bank year round? That's not a small amount of money to just sit, and it doesn't seem like a realistic requirement either.

If the government wants to get its cut, which I believe it is entitled to, then it should set up a more realistic solution. Of course its their country and the government can have any rules they want about immigration. But if they want to solve the problem in this video (and honestly, the only real problem mentioned in that video is taxes), then I encourage them to look for more realistic visa options instead of the muck-raking about older men hitting on young girls and people not attending Thai class. They might as well have thrown in "unsightly dress" and drunken behaviour.

"your friend"

The 2.0 million doesnt sit in a bank, the Ltd company is capitalised for THB 2.0 million, typically you can set up a limited company in Thailand for in the order of THB 100k cash... all these self proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs" running around and they don't know what capitalisation of a company is ?

Actually most business people don't know that because its the job of their accountant to advise them on such things. They just do what they are good at.

Have you ever run your own company Soutpeel ? I have and as an Accountant / tax adviser I know that most people don't know these things. They just do what they are good at and make money and ask their accountant for advice on stuff like this.

[robblok]

Not sure myself about capitalization in Thailand, but where I come from things like client base (goodwill) and other things can be brought in to capitalize your company, it does not need to be cash. Also some countries allow you not to do full capitalization and you get a small fine all the time.

Most digital nomads would not need 2 million in cash in a company as its useless. How much cash a company needs largely depends on what they are doing.

[Soutpeel]

If the government wants to get its cut, which I believe it is entitled to, then it should set up a more realistic solution. Of course its their country and the government can have any rules they want about immigration. But if they want to solve the problem in this video (and honestly, the only real problem mentioned in that video is taxes), then I encourage them to look for more realistic visa options instead of the muck-raking about older men hitting on young girls and people not attending Thai class. They might as well have thrown in "unsightly dress" and drunken behaviour.

"your friend"

The 2.0 million doesnt sit in a bank, the Ltd company is capitalised for THB 2.0 million, typically you can set up a limited company in Thailand for in the order of THB 100k cash... all these self proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs" running around and they don't know what capitalisation of a company is ?

Yes, "my friend", Soutpeel. Your assumption is as clever as your argumentative and condescending discourse.

2.0 million THB for capitalisation is still a mighty high bar, and not a solution, as I indicated for the other reasons in my post.

Not sure why you think these digital nomads are self-proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs", they are freelance workers: computer programmers, architects, graphic designers, translators, etc.

I'm not sure which emoticon image to choose to express "why are you so ornery, you oughta take it down a notch", but the Prozac pill gif isn't offered.

you obviously have no concept of what Capitalisation is or your blinded to see only what you want to see...read on...I also mentioned THB 100k, but of of course this wouldn't fit your concept of "its just not fair" its too expensive bleat would it ?...

Why do I say self proclaimed ? because I have read it myself on TV

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a couple of abusive and inflammatory posts.

[jcisco]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Government issued a Digital Nomad Visa

(Or more precisely an extension of visa based on digital nomading...)...

A one year extension with the following criteria:

- Pay 5% income tax on no less than 150,000 baht quarterly business income - Payable quarterly with 90 day reporting

- Reported income must come from outside Thailand

- Hold 250,000 baht in a Thai bank

- Purchase 1 million baht Health/Accident insurance policy from a Thai Insurance Company

- Show proof of registering your income/business with your home countries taxing authority

- Have a Thai drivers license

But my guess is that most could not even meet these reasonable requirements...

really not going to happen how is it fare to intro territorial taxation for foreigners and not for local firms.

Why wold Thailand offer the most bargain basement territorial taxation

Why would they do this and forgo compliance and reporting

Why would they not require submission if books

Note that showing incorporation of a home country is odd,

why would that be relevant. What if your incorporation was not in your home country.

Why would any of the points be followed, it would be easier to changes the businesses acts and permit incorporation of a branch or local entity of some sort, and the tie a wp to that.

Why would pay income tax or business income.

Why would a drivers licences be required

I really don't think you have a clue about company law or taxation .

[HooHaa]

thailand's perception of the "digital nomad" is unclear, however the perception of people who work online by miserable retirees and offshore workers and corporate salarymen on thaivisa is, as you can see, abundantly obvious.

oddly entrepreneurs and business owners do not seem to have the same issues.

[Berkshire]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

Well no offense to Thailand but that amounts to around 500 baht a day. Over 10 dollars. Just for a visa. With that amount you can easily pay for airfares around the world, and solid rentals. Hell if you stay in Asia that's enough to travel around every month, using business class. Why pay for an Elite visa? Sounds like the biggest ripoff, if you're actually generating the cash using your own efforts.

Would be interesting to find a list of Elite class people. Sounds kind of like a scam or legal form of bribery. Over 15,000 us dollars for a temporary visa???

Geez, it's just an option. No one's got a gun to your head saying you have to purchase the Elite visa. But for certain people, it makes a whole lot of sense. I get so tired of listening to people complaining about not being able to stay in Thailand when they're swimming in money, threatening to take their "millions" elsewhere. Of course, they're lying. Because if they really had that kind of money and wanted to stay in Thailand (and don't qualify for other options), the Elite visa is the best way to go.

[timmyp]

Yes, "my friend", Soutpeel. Your assumption is as clever as your argumentative and condescending discourse.

2.0 million THB for capitalisation is still a mighty high bar, and not a solution, as I indicated for the other reasons in my post.

Not sure why you think these digital nomads are self-proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs", they are freelance workers: computer programmers, architects, graphic designers, translators, etc.

I'm not sure which emoticon image to choose to express "why are you so ornery, you oughta take it down a notch", but the Prozac pill gif isn't offered.

you obviously have no concept of what Capitalisation is or your blinded to see only what you want to see...read on...I also mentioned THB 100k, but of of course this wouldn't fit your concept of "its just not fair" its too expensive bleat would it ?...

Why do I say self proclaimed ? because I have read it myself on TV

Soutpeel, you really gotta take it down a notch with the rhetoric here.

I know you like focusing on the capitalisation issue, because clearly it is something that you know about. You are a business guy. You are right, I don't know about capitalisation, and unlike some other random post that you read from another so-called digital nomad that wasn't me or my friend, neither one of us is a business entrepreneur. I can pretty much promise you that few digital nomads are business entrepreneurs. I don't why you take a posting seriously on Thai Visa of some self-proclaimed anything.

The issue here at hand isn't whether I know about capitalisation, it's about these freelancers becoming legit.

About the 100 THB you mention:

100 THB is not too much money to get a visa, and my friend has many times said that paying that per year would actually be worth it. But that makes only the VIP card an option, and as another person posted earlier, working freelance is still illegal on the VIP card. And it's not a yearly fee, it's the money upfront in a single payment. I don't know why you made that assumption about me saying "it's just not fair". If it were a matter of paying 100k baht per year, that sounds pretty fair to me. Obviously my friend agrees, too. But that much upfront, still no permission to work, and the risk that the VIP card can be revoked with the changes in administration, that's hardly a solution.

I don't know who you met that upset you so much about people freelancing, but it's short-sighted of you to think that's everyone. It seems like you are more interested in bashing than discussing this.

Oh, I want to insert a picture of some guy winking with a thumbs up, or rolling on the floor laughing, but it seems so childish.

[Soutpeel]

Yes, "my friend", Soutpeel. Your assumption is as clever as your argumentative and condescending discourse.

2.0 million THB for capitalisation is still a mighty high bar, and not a solution, as I indicated for the other reasons in my post.

Not sure why you think these digital nomads are self-proclaimed "business men and entrepreneurs", they are freelance workers: computer programmers, architects, graphic designers, translators, etc.

I'm not sure which emoticon image to choose to express "why are you so ornery, you oughta take it down a notch", but the Prozac pill gif isn't offered.

you obviously have no concept of what Capitalisation is or your blinded to see only what you want to see...read on...I also mentioned THB 100k, but of of course this wouldn't fit your concept of "its just not fair" its too expensive bleat would it ?...

Why do I say self proclaimed ? because I have read it myself on TV

Soutpeel, you really gotta take it down a notch with the rhetoric here.

I know you like focusing on the capitalisation issue, because clearly it is something that you know about. You are a business guy. You are right, I don't know about capitalisation, and unlike some other random post that you read from another so-called digital nomad that wasn't me or my friend, neither one of us is a business entrepreneur. I can pretty much promise you that few digital nomads are business entrepreneurs. I don't why you take a posting seriously on Thai Visa of some self-proclaimed anything.

The issue here at hand isn't whether I know about capitalisation, it's about these freelancers becoming legit.

About the 100 THB you mention:

100 THB is not too much money to get a visa, and my friend has many times said that paying that per year would actually be worth it. But that makes only the VIP card an option, and as another person posted earlier, working freelance is still illegal on the VIP card. And it's not a yearly fee, it's the money upfront in a single payment. I don't know why you made that assumption about me saying "it's just not fair". If it were a matter of paying 100k baht per year, that sounds pretty fair to me. Obviously my friend agrees, too. But that much upfront, still no permission to work, and the risk that the VIP card can be revoked with the changes in administration, that's hardly a solution.

I don't know who you met that upset you so much about people freelancing, but it's short-sighted of you to think that's everyone. It seems like you are more interested in bashing than discussing this.

Oh, I want to insert a picture of some guy winking with a thumbs up, or rolling on the floor laughing, but it seems so childish.

no one has upset me about people freelancing, in fact I have no issue with the concept of digital nomadary either.

What I do have a bit of problem with is people who demand to be treated differently and want "special privileges" and want changes to established company and business rules because they cant or cant be bothered to qualify under the stated rules, just because they carry a lap top under their arms and profess to be some sort "entrepreneur"

what they are asking for is not a "Special visa" its demanding asking that all the current visa/business establishment and taxation rules be changed to suit them, so let me ask you this...how many DM's do you think are in Thailand ? and what do you believe their current contribution is to the Thai economy ?

Thailand as country will not change anything unless there is some tangible direct economic benefit to the people of Thailand as a country, and from what I can see, DM bring very little direct economic benefit, by pumping large quantities of money into the economy or by employing Thai nationals, thus providing training and skills, in fact one of the primary objections by the DM's, is that they don't want to employ Thai nationals

so to ask a very open ended question....what's in it for Thailand as a country by handing out DM visa's ?...my opinion very little... convince me otherwise ?

[Soutpeel]

thailand's perception of the "digital nomad" is unclear, however the perception of people who work online by miserable retirees and offshore workers and corporate salarymen on thaivisa is, as you can see, abundantly obvious.

oddly entrepreneurs and business owners do not seem to have the same issues.

You forgot to add, everyone is jealous cos DM's are living the dream...

oddly I do know some farang entrepreneurs and business owners in Thailand who of exactly the same opinion as me they take exception of this "I am DM, give me special visa thing" simply because they have expended the time/energy and money to set things up properly in Thailand

[timmyp]

no one has upset me about people freelancing, in fact I have no issue with the concept of digital nomadary either.

What I do have a bit of problem with is people who demand to be treated differently and want "special privileges" and want changes to established company and business rules because they cant or cant be bothered to qualify under the stated rules, just because they carry a lap top under their arms and profess to be some sort "entrepreneur"

what they are asking for is not a "Special visa" its demanding asking that all the current visa/business establishment and taxation rules be changed to suit them, so let me ask you this...how many DM's do you think are in Thailand ? and what do you believe their current contribution is to the Thai economy ?

Thailand as country will not change anything unless there is some tangible direct economic benefit to the people of Thailand as a country, and from what I can see, DM bring very little direct economic benefit, by pumping large quantities of money into the economy or by employing Thai nationals, thus providing training and skills, in fact one of the primary objections by the DM's, is that they don't want to employ Thai nationals

so to ask a very open ended question....what's in it for Thailand as a country by handing out DM visa's ?...my opinion very little... convince me otherwise ?

You make a good point about "what's in it for Thailand" on the money side.

And I am in agreement with your distaste of people demanding special privileges just because they don't want to pay into a system that they are attempting to benefit from.

That said, the world economy is changing, and these DMs are a reality. They are going to be here in Thailand, legal or illegal, whether the gov lets them or not.

DMs are hardly harming Thailand (despite the video's focus on sexpats and abuse of the ED visa to study Thai language), so why not make a system to get them legal if they are going to find ways to be here anyway? Charging, say, 100 K per year is reasonable to me. I think setting the bar moderately high is appropriate. I think the potential for less desirable folks increases the lower that the bar is set. But setting too high of an economic requirement is unreasonable, and will result in the DMs still being in Thailand, just illegally.

If the government allows a more appropriate way than the Thai elite card (cheapest version at 500K up front for 5 years, I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) and than opening a company with 4 employees (not appropriate for an individual freelancer), then the government can keep track of the DMs, and get more income from DMs being here than the zero sataang they are getting now.

Certainly there are only more DMs to come with the current changes in the global economy. Finding a realistic way to make them legal makes the most sense.

[Soutpeel]

and than opening a company with 4 employees (not appropriate for an individual freelancer),

Well I know an individual Freelancer (not in the DN sense) who works O&G and he has set up a Ltd company which employs his wife, a maid etc to meet employee thing, he has a WP for Thailand through the company enabling to work for other various companies in Thailand/internationally as they retain his company to provide the service...the company is basically "him" and he is doing no different from a DN...

so how is this different from a DN's for freelance as you refer to ?....

[rwdrwdrwd]

He is actively working in Thailand for Thai entities. His income (or at least a portion of it) is sourced in Thailand and he is directly competing with Thais for contracts.

Same principle as someone who wishes to offer web design services to Thai clients, and competes directly with Thai design agencies in the local market.

Neither of these are the same scenario as exclusively earning income from outside of Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

He is actively working in Thailand for Thai entities. His income (or at least a portion of it) is sourced in Thailand.

and what about when he works internationally, he is still invoicing through a Thai company, so no different from a DN, in this instance, and in fact when the Thai works finishes up he intends to continue doing the same as what he is doing on the international front...

the thrust of my post was more of a response to the statement below anyway.

The point being "freelance" DN or what ever flavour of the month title you want to apply, can get set up here, even under the current rules, so we should differentiate between cant do it and don't want to do it

and than opening a company with 4 employees (not appropriate for an individual freelancer)

[Naam]

another thread to entertain bored people based on the (drawn out of thin air) assumption of a "massive influx" of certain professionals. in my [not so] humble view any intelligent "digital nomad" is doing his job quietly and gives a flying fàrt about work permits, taxes or the tedious way of setting up a company to obtain a work/residence permit.

[timmyp]

and than opening a company with 4 employees (not appropriate for an individual freelancer),

Well I know an individual Freelancer (not in the DN sense) who works O&G and he has set up a Ltd company which employs his wife, a maid etc to meet employee thing, he has a WP for Thailand through the company enabling to work for other various companies in Thailand/internationally as they retain his company to provide the service...the company is basically "him" and he is doing no different from a DN...

so how is this different from a DN's for freelance as you refer to ?....

So his wife is a Thai citizen, he has a maid, and someone else he can hire. Putting aside the investment and capitalisation required to create a company that can provide a work visa for your friend, it really doesn't seem like a good solution to say that your wife and two friends work for you when they don't (ok, I concede that calling the maid an employee sounds totally legit, but the wife and the other unnamed fourth employee "etc" are a stretch).

The DNs you've met certainly sound like obnoxious losers trying to skim off the system. Anyone that the video at the start of this thread is appealing to is not someone I care to meet. I've actually never even used the term "digital nomad" until I started posting on this site today, but like you, I've also come across some undesirable people who are freelancers, very content with themselves and their ability to barely eek out a living via the net. But I know far more freelancers that aren't that way.

Now, for the people making a substantial income who want to get legit, it would be great if there were a way that is more realistic than setting up a company with pretend employees, that doesn't require 2 million THB down. That's not about calling for a special treatment, it's about being more realistic after considering the reality of freelancers.

For example, a freelancer visa could require 100K down, plus proof of earnings and taxes paid. That sounds fair to me, and hopefully addresses all the people out there who think that freelancers are just freeloaders. Of course those are just arbitrary ideas for what a freelance visa might require, but it's an attempt to acknowledge the gov's desire to keep tabs on foreigners in Thailand, and the gov gets the tax earnings.

The fact is that freelancers are going to come here because that's that way the world economy is going. It's better to find a way to make them legitimate than have so many skirting the system. Set the bar at an appropriate height, and everyone's concerns will be addressed. Of course people will continue to try flying under the radar, but at least it will bring many out of the shadows, such as my friend.

[Lukecan]

There is only one succesfull digital nomad I know, the rest are counting pennies. That successful guy just got himself hooked up with a 5 year Thai Elite visa. So if you really make big bucks, then you shouldn't have any problems forking over 500k baht for a 5 year old visa.

Well no offense to Thailand but that amounts to around 500 baht a day. Over 10 dollars. Just for a visa. With that amount you can easily pay for airfares around the world, and solid rentals. Hell if you stay in Asia that's enough to travel around every month, using business class. Why pay for an Elite visa? Sounds like the biggest ripoff, if you're actually generating the cash using your own efforts.

Would be interesting to find a list of Elite class people. Sounds kind of like a scam or legal form of bribery. Over 15,000 us dollars for a temporary visa???

Excuses Excuses Excuses. If you really make big bucks from the net then you wouldn't care giving 3k/year to stay here. If I really made something like 100-150k year from the web, then I really wouldn't have any problem forking 3k from that money for the pleasure of staying here hassle free.

A person that makes real money wont waste his time researching how to live on 500$/month in CM doing visa runs or having a phony ed visa.

Heck come to think of it, if i even made something like 50k/year I'd still hand out 3k for that pleasure.

I dont have a thai elite visa unfortunately, but I think its very well worth the money for a person who is yougner than 50 and makes a decent amount of income