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I see the whole world is starting to split along Muslim and non-Muslim lines. I think any faith that breeds such fanatics, as other faiths do not treat women poorly or require conversion to a Muslim world that excludes all others, deserves the bad press and condemnation most people apply to it. Muslim extremists cannot co-exist and we should wake up to the fact that we should not be so liberal and tolerant in the West.

We allow freedom of expression and hospitality and this is all abused by some hard line fanatics to take our generosity and then blow us up! We need to have harder laws to close down bad mosques, to deport and/or refuse entry to preachers etc. We are a Christian and multi cultural country and too much freedom is given to minority groups who don't give a ###### about our culture, way of life or respecting the values of the country who provides them with freedom, safety and social provision.

If terrorists are caught and found guilty we should strap a bomb belt to them and let them have their wish in a big deserted field. (of course I don't really think so, but it is just as ridiculous allowing them to preach hate, enter and leave at will etc. The risk is defined as Muslims and not Christians, Mormons, Buddhists etc etc, so we should target the risk. The risk of a dirty bomb in the future or worse is just too great and unimaginable to allow Muslims total freedom any more, so I advocate much harder laws to be applied generally, but targetted in truth as Muslims. If they want to leave then good - Pi55 off )

Many of us in our hearts know that we are wary and avoid Muslim looking people unless we know them well. I would be happy if we took the cautious approach and banned any more from entering. Simply we do not need them and they are too great a risk to security as even a law abiding family man can be hiding the truth of his terror thoughts and surprisingly planning to throw his life away with as many others as he can find. God is great and what man does in the name of Muslims is slowly alienate the whole world to the vast majority of good and peace loving Muslims along with the hate filled scum.

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TOPIC ______ Thailand ------ Restive South ------

etc etc etc

NOT MUSLIMS!

this is thai related as in more participation from the so called good muslims to oust the bad boys

it is trying to create a solution to the problem, and in my view it should start within the religion and its followers

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since this is a seperatist movement and not a "Muslim" thing .... keep thinking and maybe study some of the history. Please leave the dramatic western mind/media drama at home :D

you seemed pretty informed so can you please tell me

1 what they are seperating from

2 how they want to do it

3 how they want to govern it

4 will it or wont it be a Islamic state with Islamic run schools and universities

I would be very interested to know :o

when i get answers from this i probably have a few more

I am real interested to know what drives a seperatist too

thanks

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Do you even know the bombers were Muslim?

If they were, does this mean all Muslims are terrorists?

Maybe they were men, does this mean all men are also terrorists?

Oh oh oh, what do we have here ? A fan of the greek philosophers ! Congratulations.

A quick news for you, to put your great logic in perspective : an italian nun 70 years old was shot down sunday in a hospital by somalian gunmen.

Too bad : they were muslims.

Hum... maybe, like Socrates, you should drink a cup of poison hemlock to learn how to think.

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in the west when a conflict starts and it is wrong there are peacefull mass protests and marches by the common people, and it does sway the politicians and leaders into changing attitudes.

tell me please where are the mass protests from the muslim community condeming theses idiots.

any where in the world.

i can't hear you

Yes, the silence is deafening, as it usually is in cases like this.

In fact, in recent years I can only recall one time that Muslims protested a incident like this. That was the protests in Egypt after the Sharm el-Shiek bombings last year. Even then, the protesters were mainly the workers at the various hotels/restaurants/tourist attractions that stood to lose money as the tourists fled the area.

In the West, we often view the lack of condemnation as equalling silent approval. Many people don't support what is going on in various parts of the world, but remain silent for fear of being shunned by others in their communities.

Then again, many people in those same communities do support what is happening. They see it simply as a means to an end (to put it another way, they see the various problems around the world as being a part of the process towards establishing a greater Islamic Caliph that stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They may not all agree with the methods being used, but their religious leaders aren't condemning those methods either. Most of them would never dare to contradict their Imams.)

Most of these radicals/fanatics/terrorists could not operate without the suport of the communities they come from. If the people in those communities truly wanted to end the violence, they would stop supporting the terrorists and start turning them in to the police.

Christians can't sit on their high horses and act all righteous either. Islam is attempting to do now, what Christianity tried doing for centuries. Remember the Crusades ? The Inquisitions ? The hordes of Jesuits and other missionaries that travelled the world trying to convert the indigenous populations where ever they found them ?

Those people often used tactics that weren't much different than what we see now. Fear and Terror. Any groups that resisted were declared "heretic" and wiped out.

The only difference is that now, non-believers are "infidels" and the ones spreading Fear and Terror have access to more deadly technology.

One thing is for sure, if you give in to these fanatics, it won't stop the violence. It will merely give them a secure base from which they can expand their agenda into neighbouring areas.

(for those that don't know, I recently spent just over 2 years working in Afghanistan, and am heading back there in the very near future)

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Do you even know the bombers were Muslim?

If they were, does this mean all Muslims are terrorists?

Maybe they were men, does this mean all men are also terrorists?

Oh oh oh, what do we have here ? A fan of the greek philosophers ! Congratulations.

A quick news for you, to put your great logic in perspective : an italian nun 70 years old was shot down sunday in a hospital by somalian gunmen.

Too bad : they were muslims.

Hum... maybe, like Socrates, you should drink a cup of poison hemlock to learn how to think.

in the west when a conflict starts and it is wrong there are peacefull mass protests and marches by the common people, and it does sway the politicians and leaders into changing attitudes.

tell me please where are the mass protests from the muslim community condeming theses idiots.

any where in the world.

i can't hear you

Yes, the silence is deafening, as it usually is in cases like this.

In fact, in recent years I can only recall one time that Muslims protested a incident like this. That was the protests in Egypt after the Sharm el-Shiek bombings last year. Even then, the protesters were mainly the workers at the various hotels/restaurants/tourist attractions that stood to lose money as the tourists fled the area.

In the West, we often view the lack of condemnation as equalling silent approval. Many people don't support what is going on in various parts of the world, but remain silent for fear of being shunned by others in their communities.

Then again, many people in those same communities do support what is happening. They see it simply as a means to an end (to put it another way, they see the various problems around the world as being a part of the process towards establishing a greater Islamic Caliph that stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific. They may not all agree with the methods being used, but their religious leaders aren't condemning those methods either. Most of them would never dare to contradict their Imams.)

Most of these radicals/fanatics/terrorists could not operate without the suport of the communities they come from. If the people in those communities truly wanted to end the violence, they would stop supporting the terrorists and start turning them in to the police.

Christians can't sit on their high horses and act all righteous either. Islam is attempting to do now, what Christianity tried doing for centuries. Remember the Crusades ? The Inquisitions ? The hordes of Jesuits and other missionaries that travelled the world trying to convert the indigenous populations where ever they found them ?

Those people often used tactics that weren't much different than what we see now. Fear and Terror. Any groups that resisted were declared "heretic" and wiped out.

The only difference is that now, non-believers are "infidels" and the ones spreading Fear and Terror have access to more deadly technology.

One thing is for sure, if you give in to these fanatics, it won't stop the violence. It will merely give them a secure base from which they can expand their agenda into neighbouring areas.

(for those that don't know, I recently spent just over 2 years working in Afghanistan, and am heading back there in the very near future)

Can anyone see THAILAND mentioned in the above posts?

INSURGENTS _____ SEPERATISTS

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since this is a seperatist movement and not a "Muslim" thing .... keep thinking and maybe study some of the history. Please leave the dramatic western mind/media drama at home :D

so now the bad boys are seperatists and not muslims.

sorry m8 i've got it all wrong again

it is good some people trying to defend the actions of the muslim community its just a shame more people do not start to understand the cultures and religions of other countries, and learn to live in harmony.

until the muslim community help themselves by ousting these 'seperatists' then i'm afraid this conflict of interests has no end in sight.

i agree not all muslims are bad apples but i would like to see more of the good ones making a stance against the bad ones that are representing thier religion in the name of allah.

if that were to happen on a more frequent basis then the situation would ease considerbly don't you think.

i'm not interested in the lame excuse of history, we live now not

back in time.

i had an argument with a boy that was bigger than me when i was seven, now i am bigger than him should i go back and thrash him :o

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TOPIC ______ Thailand ------ Restive South ------

etc etc etc

NOT MUSLIMS!

Ah, another joker.

I've just learned that the entire population in the south is muslim. I guess you can call this a coincidence.

And that Pattani was a malay islamic sultanate, before its formal annexion by Siam in 1902.

That's really amazing.

By the way : do you think we can think about "budhists" when we talk about Thailand ?

I ask, because I really think we should ask for your permission : you seem such a reasonable and wise man.

And it's possible that there is absolutly no link between the two. So much uncertainty in this world...

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TOPIC ______ Thailand ------ Restive South ------

etc etc etc

NOT MUSLIMS!

Ah, another joker.

I've just learned that the entire population in the south is muslim. I guess you can call this a coincidence.

And that Pattani was a malay islamic sultanate, before its formal annexion by Siam in 1902.

That's really amazing.

By the way : do you think we can think about "budhists" when we talk about Thailand ?

I ask, because I really think we should ask for your permission : you seem such a reasonable and wise man.

And it's possible that there is absolutly no link between the two. So much uncertainty in this world...

Well at least you mentioned Thailand! ... not a single fact is correct ... but you mentioned Thaila

nd!

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Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

:o

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QUOTE(jdinasia @ 2006-09-17 20:22:16)

since this is a seperatist movement and not a "Muslim" thing .... keep thinking and maybe study some of the history. Please leave the dramatic western mind/media drama at home

so now the bad boys are seperatists and not muslims.

sorry m8 i've got it all wrong again

it is good some people trying to defend the actions of the muslim community its just a shame more people do not start to understand the cultures and religions of other countries, and learn to live in harmony.

until the muslim community help themselves by ousting these 'seperatists' then i'm afraid this conflict of interests has no end in sight.

i agree not all muslims are bad apples but i would like to see more of the good ones making a stance against the bad ones that are representing thier religion in the name of allah.

if that were to happen on a more frequent basis then the situation would ease considerbly don't you think.

i'm not interested in the lame excuse of history, we live now not

back in time.

i had an argument with a boy that was bigger than me when i was seven, now i am bigger than him should i go back and thrash him

and yet another post that fails to mention Thailand

i thought we were talking about thailand, do i need to mention thailand in every sentence,

in THAILAND if the muslim community help themselves by making a stance against the 'seperatists' then that would go a long way to easing the situation don't you think.

now jd does that help you

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Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

:o

:D Actually your thoughts are not that far from mine.

1) Insist that the schools teach Thai <all schools>

2) Allow the 3 provinces to elect their own governors <supposed to have happened already! But it hasn't!

3) Get our guys in TRT to spend as much in the South as they do in the NE (and not just in the 3 provinces)

4) Insist that the South still pay taxes and send the boys into the army!

For this ... a region where people can speak their native language in offices <gov't> and banks etc etc

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###### I love the south too but it just ain't worth the risk. :o

Its a real shame that the international media will not mention that this problem is confined to the south. The headlines will include the word(s) "Thailand" not "South Thailand".

As if the issue with visas wasn't putting enough pressure on tourisim, what tourist will want to come here now that they are a target?

Sad days ahead, and I'm sorry to say, but I place the blame directly on the heads of the former/caretaker govt, they are guilty of failing to act.

Sad state of affairs when a confident Prince is on location after the incident, chatting with locals and foreigners in their language while a spineless amoeba of a Caretaker PM is abroad or hiding as usual, ordering his "best men" to show up afterwards.

Edited by Tony Clifton
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Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

:o

An Appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.

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Please try to keep your posts on topic (bombing in Hat Yai) and keep the political/religious hate posts off. A number of posts and at least one member have been removed thus far. Trolling/aggressive posting is not helpful to anyone. Thanks.

Greetings Lopburi3,

What to do with bombers & murderers of innocent people? My brother in law ( Thai Navy ) is in the South and has been wounded once by these same murduring thugs so... And... By the way... I was in Laos fighting in another war 36 years ago along side every brave Thai Soldiers and... My family is Thai and... My home is Thailand so... Censor me ( again ) if you like however... Until this situation is resolved it will continue... So.. What to do Lopburi3 and others? I know what to do with such murderers to make them cringe and discourage others with such thought against Thailand but... Maybe you have some idea? So... What are your ideas?

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TOPIC ______ Thailand ------ Restive South ------

etc etc etc

NOT MUSLIMS

A striking aspect of the South Thailand insurgency is the anonymity of the people behind it and the absence of concrete demands. Thailand had held relatively free elections in February of 2005, and no secessionist candidates contested the results in the south. Although requests of cultural and religious freedom and the right to use the Yawi language has been presented numerous times.

On March 2005, respected former Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun was appointed as chairman of the National Reconciliation Commission, tasked with overseeing that peace is brought back to the South. A fierce critic of the Thaksin-government, Anand frequently criticized the handling of the southern unrest, and in particular the State of Emergency Decree. He has been quoted to have said, "The authorities have worked inefficiently. They have arrested innocent people instead of the real culprits, leading to mistrust among locals. So, giving them broader power may lead to increased violence and eventually a real crisis." Unfortunately, the situation to deteriorated from 2005 to 2006, with escalating violence, especially among teachers and civilians.

Anand finally submitted the NRC's recommendations on 5 June 2006[4]. Among them were

Introducing Islamic law

Making ethnic Pattani-Malay (Yawi) as a working language in the region

Establishing an unarmed peacekeeping force

Establishing a Peaceful Strategic Administrative Centre for Southern Border Provinces

On 31 August 2006, 22 commercial banks were simultaneously bombed in Yala province, killing a retired military officer and wounding 24 people. Afterwards, Army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin announced that he would break with government policy and negotiate with the leaders of the insurgency. However, he noted that "We still don't know who is the real head of the militants we are fighting with."In a press conference the next day, he slammed the government for political interference, and asked that the government "Free the military and let it do the job."

On 16 September 2006, six remotely detonated motorcycle bombs simultaneously exploded in the city of Hat Yai, killing three people and wounding more than sixty. A Canadian was among the dead.

Sorry but it sounds like a Muslim based insurgency to me any way you want to cut it. :o

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Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

:o

An Appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.

That was the prevailing attitude in the UK for 30 years. It wasn't until the British government actually started talking to the 'terrorists' that things started to happen.

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SOUTHERN UNREST / TOUR BY ISLAMIC GROUPS , The leader of Indonesia's largest Islamic group says the Thai government's reliance on the military option has done little to improve the violent situation in the deep South.

Ahmad Hasyim Muzadi, chairman of the 45-million-member Nahdlatul Ulama, said there has been no change in the South recently because the government has failed to employ peaceful means.

"It's not worse, but it's not better," he said yesterday in an interview with the Bangkok Post, comparing his current visit with one in March last year as a guest of the Foreign Ministry.

Thailand has yet to find a proper method to solve the unrest and it could take two or three years for the country to return peace to the restive South, he said.

Mr Hasyim Muzadi and two other members of his group are joining Muslim leaders from Bahrain, Morocco, Turkey, Egypt, Kuwait, and Jordan in touring the South to mark the 60th anniversary of His Majesty the King's accession to the throne.

They were given an audience with His Royal Highness Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn in Bangkok yesterday. The Crown Prince ended his week-long visit to the deep South on Sunday.

Mr Hasyim Muzadi said the southern conflict could not be quelled by military operations and improved justice and social welfare were needed to solve the problem.

"The military approach is for catching the militants, but not penalising them. Judging their faults must be done according to the law so that the public can observe the court in action, and this might eventually help reveal the masterminds behind the terrorist acts," he said.

"After all, the Thai government has to change its attitude toward southern Muslims and treat them as Thai citizens, not push them away as Malay Muslims," the 60-year-old Mr Muzadi said.

Thailand has to nurture "moderate Islam" to replace the hard-line teaching approach influenced by countries in the Middle East whose cultural environment was different from Southeast Asia.

"We would like to send teachers to spread teaching of moderate Islam, but it seems the Thai government does not wish to heed our friendly suggestions, despite interest from Muslim leaders in the southern provinces," he said.

There should be a wider exchange of students and teachers between Indonesia and Thailand, Mr Hasyim Muzadi said.

Currently, only 125 Thai students study in Jakarta, 70 in Jogyakarta and a few dozen in other Indonesian cities, compared to several thousand in the Middle East

Source: Pattaninews.net

Interesting !

Edited by englishoak
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Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

:o

An Appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.

Nah, the part about steadily injecting their population with gambling, alcohol (all supplied by Bangkok based big business), and say... rhythmic dancing, is part of the fine print. With the visa free foreigner clause, the long term effect should be a harmless mulatto state... like Brazil. Who knows, maybe it'll also increase Thailand's soccer talent pool.

:D

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This is dreadfully sad - real, moderate Muslims the world over are horrified by the way the fanatics have twisted the interpretations of the Holy Koran to "support" their greed and hate of anyone who does not think and act like them.

No right thinking person could consider them to be real Muslims, they are criminals - pure and simple - filled with hate and loathing of everything.

I lived and worked in the Middle East for a number of years, many of my friends are Muslims, I currently live in a predominantly Muslim area now with a mosque just down the road.

These are normal, happy people, living their lives and following their religion - as is their right.

Oh really? Where are the massive protests by these moderate Muslims against these fanatics who are destroying the reputation of Islam across the entire planet?

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This is dreadfully sad - real, moderate Muslims the world over are horrified by the way the fanatics have twisted the interpretations of the Holy Koran to "support" their greed and hate of anyone who does not think and act like them.

No right thinking person could consider them to be real Muslims, they are criminals - pure and simple - filled with hate and loathing of everything.

I lived and worked in the Middle East for a number of years, many of my friends are Muslims, I currently live in a predominantly Muslim area now with a mosque just down the road.

These are normal, happy people, living their lives and following their religion - as is their right.

Oh really? Where are the massive protests by these moderate Muslims against these fanatics who are destroying the reputation of Islam across the entire planet?

Probably in the same place as the protest of moderate Catholics when the IRA was blowing up chunks of the UK. Law abiding people don't usually feel it necessary to go on marches to protest their innocence.

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:D Where Oh Where is the Winston Churchill of the 21st Century? We need some leaders to step up and make themselves useful. Former President Khatami of Iran spoke out aginst terror and violence when he visited the USA. That was helpful. The Roman Catholic Pope Benedict XVI actually posed a challenge to the Islamics during a speech in Germany by quoting a 14th century Pope's observations about the violence embodied in Mohammed's teachings. Are there leaders in the Islamic world besides President Khatami who are willing to stand up and proclaim that Islam is a peaceful religion and that people who commit acts of violence are not true Muslims? Let them be heard!

Are there any Desmond Tutus who can reconcile the animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims? Let's hope so because it will take a long time to eliminate criminals who are acting in the name of Islam. In the meantime, we need someone to calm the anger and hostility and change the common perception of Muslims as being intemperate and hostile.

Of course, the media seize on anything sensational to sell their product, which doesn't help. :o

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Someone earlier said it right, its a multi headed monster. There are a lot of forces at work here that want to keep the boarder area unstable. Malay rubber barons, drug and arms trafficers, Separatists, extreamists, insergents perhaps even government forced (Taksin isnt a very big fan of the south) its been said that the Army is at odds with the Police over who controles the contraban trafficing. I dont know who is to blame for these bombs but the muslems are getting the blame by the looks of the posts here. Things arent always as they appear.

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Greetings Lopburi3,

What to do with bombers & murderers of innocent people? My brother in law ( Thai Navy ) is in the South and has been wounded once by these same murduring thugs so... And... By the way... I was in Laos fighting in another war 36 years ago along side every brave Thai Soldiers and... My family is Thai and... My home is Thailand so... Censor me ( again ) if you like however... Until this situation is resolved it will continue... So.. What to do Lopburi3 and others? I know what to do with such murderers to make them cringe and discourage others with such thought against Thailand but... Maybe you have some idea? So... What are your ideas?

You know what to do with such murderers to make them cringe and discourage others do you? Hope you come up with some better ideas than the ones that were used 36 years ago because that didn't work out too well did it? Why don't you leave the Thais to settle their problems without your interference? They are not doing too well right now, but they did overcome a communist insurgency when they finally dropped the 'kill 'em all' tactics that were tried for so long time.

Edited by qualtrough
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I think for most people, the violence in the south really doesn't effect them. Sure it's look at with disgust and horror but does it really effect you.

Tomorrow most of us will get up early in the morning and go through our mourning routine and probably won't think about it until we see a news story or something else that reminds us of it.

Our lives are the same. Nothing has changed. Although we say we care, most are not willing or able to lift a finger to help. Muslems, Christians, or whoever.

So the question is do you really care. If so, what are you willing to do about it? Or, do you just want to wait and hope the violence never comes your way.

Chances are it won't................but what if it does?

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