Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

[Muirton]

Where have all these do gooders gone, screaming and helping with financial aid.....

May we surmise that you have contempt and despisement for those who do good? Yes, actually.

[Smurkster]

Who killed the GB tourists is a mystery.

The trial will either solve or add to the mystery.

Let's wait and see.

One question could and should've been asked by now:

"What will take for Koh Tao to lose the IDYLLIC title?"

''Who killed the GB tourists is a mystery.''

That's the issue, it's NOT a mystery. Everyone on the island knows exactly what happened.

Please post here, everyone wants to know

The LOS currently lacks freedom of speech so asking a TV poster for the evidence to be placed here would put that person in peril.

Yes it would and what a sad indictment that really is not on the OP or anything else...just a black mark on The Kingdom of Thailand

[fareastguy]

If these two innocent men are convicted then there is no justice here in Thailand. It will mean that the real scum sucking murdering rapist runt who's low class criminal family that pay the police will never be convicted.

My Thai wife says that there are lots of people on death island who know exactly what really happened but are too scared to speak up. Hopefully there will be at least one suicidal person who will be at the trial to tell the truth.

I am sick of hearing stories of everyday people getting away with murder because they can pay the police off.

I know a Thai/Chinese man here who killed someone while driving drunk and paid the police and one of his staff to do the jail time on his behalf. This kind of thing stinks. One day things will change and then people like this will be made to face their past with devastating consequences.

So if so many people know so much then why doesn't one of them send the details ANONYMOUSLY stating names to the world press & let the media do the pushing through the appropriate channels...

If you know something & do nothing then beef about it then that makes you only one notch above the scum !!

Put-up or shut-up!

[GOLDBUGGY]

The Families have already seen the evidence and have already commented on that, saying the Police have a strong case against them. As in DNA and other Evidence. They also said they did not want anyone to be tried and unjustly convicted for this crime, but made no further comment about the accused held in custody.

Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law. Village talk is just that. Village Talk! To be honest, if I had my ass in the same sling as these guys have, I would be begging for my life to, and asking for fairness, or for forgiveness from the Parents.

In a weeks time the evidence I hope will all come out, then we can decide for ourselves. Until such time, I will stick with the parents and think they are the guilty ones. .

"Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law." Wrong.

Hearsay is admissible in civil and criminal trials in the UK. Hearsay is admissible in US Federal Court.

Only admissible in UK and USA courts within a defined set of circumstances. There is not a total acceptance.

However, this case will be tried under Thai Law, which may be different.

(not saying the UK/USA cirmstances are not met in this case)

Wasn't you who said to me that I need to understand the Hearsay Laws, and now you say it "May" be different here?

This Hearsay Law also applies to Canada, Europe, and probably any civilized country in the world. So not just the USA and the UK.

It applies as there is a good reason for this. It is because people like you can't come to court and say "I heard they are innocent". and without any proof let 2 murders get away free.

[Smurkster]

All the gossip mongers have achieved is to turn a simple case into a circus

Is there one shred of concrete evidence that says these guys could be innocent?............ Even the John Wayne Gacy said it wasn't me...........most do

Seems to me the police have plenty to say they are guilty but according to the doubters they rigged the dna planted her phone put blood from the girl on the T shirt of one of the accused, planted a cigarette butt showed them where the hoe was in front of hundreds of witnesses none of who cried foul.

They did all that in front of hundreds of investigating police from Bangkok

"investigating police from Bangkok". Your naiveté regarding how Thai Police function is cosmic.

could he have meant the higher ups who work in Bangkok who came down to Tao? In fairness, let's be sure we are not taking the guy out of context.

[Beetlejuice]

I think the two Burmese patsies have no chance. If I remember correctly word on the streets in Koh Tao was that 112m THB were paid to make all this go away by the island mafia family of the real murderers. The investigation was a shameful travesty, but the most disgusting part of all was when the parents of David and Hannah openly stated that they were "happy with the investigation and its outcome". They must be either braindead, blind and deaf or were threatened to keep their mouths shut, I don't know, but to me that was the most horrifying part of the whole sharade. May the true culprits, their families and all RTP officers involved in the cover up and the lowlife scum pancake vendor mainly responsible for what happened in the "safe house" rot in hell!

That`s a serious accusation. Please give your sources for this information? Or is this something you were told by a man you met in a bar?

Are you associated with or supporting with your name that facebook page you seem to advocate so much? If not than you are not practicing what you preach.

Do you reside or work in Thailand? Because I am interested to know what makes you so interested in this event?

If activists like you keep making such statements, at least without any credible convincing evidence or sources to back up your rants, then you are leaving ourself open to being classified as an enemy of the state.

If you or anyone else have credible evidence or have witnessed anything or know someone that could help the 2 lads already in custody prove they are innocent, then please go public, rather than vomiting up hearsay and conspiracy theories on social networking sites and open forums.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Where have all these do gooders gone, screaming and helping with financial aid.....

May we surmise that you have contempt and despisement for those who do good? Yes, actually.

Letting 2 Murders go free to commit these murders over again is not helping anyone, or society.

If you want to help murders and rapists then you are better to donate your money to them after their trial and when they are already in Prison. They will need it more than.

[attento]

The Families have already seen the evidence and have already commented on that, saying the Police have a strong case against them. As in DNA and other Evidence. They also said they did not want anyone to be tried and unjustly convicted for this crime, but made no further comment about the accused held in custody.

Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law. Village talk is just that. Village Talk! To be honest, if I had my ass in the same sling as these guys have, I would be begging for my life to, and asking for fairness, or for forgiveness from the Parents.

In a weeks time the evidence I hope will all come out, then we can decide for ourselves. Until such time, I will stick with the parents and think they are the guilty ones. .

"Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law." Wrong.

Hearsay is admissible in civil and criminal trials in the UK. Hearsay is admissible in US Federal Court.

Only admissible in UK and USA courts within a defined set of circumstances. There is not a total acceptance.

However, this case will be tried under Thai Law, which may be different.

(not saying the UK/USA cirmstances are not met in this case)

Wasn't you who said to me that I need to understand the Hearsay Laws, and now you say it "May" be different here?

This Hearsay Law also applies to Canada, Europe, and probably any civilized country in the world. So not just the USA and the UK.

It applies as there is a good reason for this. It is because people like you can't come to court and say "I heard they are innocent". and without any proof let 2 murders get away free.

No sir, that was not me !

My contribution stated that not ALL hearsay evidence is admissible in UK or USA ( Canada et al.) courts.

There are limits to the admissibility of Hearsay evidence. What those limits are in Thai Law, I have no idea.

I guess you mis-read or mis-understood my contribution. I apologise for any lack of clarity.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I think the two Burmese patsies have no chance. If I remember correctly word on the streets in Koh Tao was that 112m THB were paid to make all this go away by the island mafia family of the real murderers. The investigation was a shameful travesty, but the most disgusting part of all was when the parents of David and Hannah openly stated that they were "happy with the investigation and its outcome". They must be either braindead, blind and deaf or were threatened to keep their mouths shut, I don't know, but to me that was the most horrifying part of the whole sharade. May the true culprits, their families and all RTP officers involved in the cover up and the lowlife scum pancake vendor mainly responsible for what happened in the "safe house" rot in hell!

The "word on the streets in Koh Tao"???????

This is the best you can come up with for your proof that these guys are innocent? Then compare this to the actual evidence the Families were allowed to see, and yet you call them "Braindead?"

Ha!Ha!Ha!.

Well, if it makes you feel better I do agree on one thing you said. That someone here for sure is "Braindead".

[sambum]

Where have all these do gooders gone, screaming and helping with financial aid.....

May we surmise that you have contempt and despisement for those who do good? Yes, actually.

Letting 2 Murders go free to commit these murders over again is not helping anyone, or society.

If you want to help murders and rapists then you are better to donate your money to them after their trial and when they are already in Prison. They will need it more than.

So they're already guilty as charged?

[thailandchilli]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The Families have already seen the evidence and have already commented on that, saying the Police have a strong case against them. As in DNA and other Evidence. They also said they did not want anyone to be tried and unjustly convicted for this crime, but made no further comment about the accused held in custody.

Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law. Village talk is just that. Village Talk! To be honest, if I had my ass in the same sling as these guys have, I would be begging for my life to, and asking for fairness, or for forgiveness from the Parents.

In a weeks time the evidence I hope will all come out, then we can decide for ourselves. Until such time, I will stick with the parents and think they are the guilty ones. .

"Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law." Wrong.

Hearsay is admissible in civil and criminal trials in the UK. Hearsay is admissible in US Federal Court.

Only admissible in UK and USA courts within a defined set of circumstances. There is not a total acceptance.

However, this case will be tried under Thai Law, which may be different.

(not saying the UK/USA cirmstances are not met in this case)

No! Hearsay Evidence is not admissible in any Civilized Court and only under very rare circumstances they will consider its admittance.

You appear to have this backwards. Read My Link.

[sambum]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

I would suggest that you pay a little more attention yourself instead of sickening us with your lurid details of what you surmise to have happened to "VICTORIA" that tragic night. You have not even got the decency to get the poor girl's name right, and goodness knows what effect your despicable comments would have on the parents of "HANNAH" if they were ever to read them.

I hope that I am not the only one to be disgusted by your totally inappropriate post.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Where have all these do gooders gone, screaming and helping with financial aid.....

May we surmise that you have contempt and despisement for those who do good? Yes, actually.

Letting 2 Murders go free to commit these murders over again is not helping anyone, or society.

If you want to help murders and rapists then you are better to donate your money to them after their trial and when they are already in Prison. They will need it more than.

So they're already guilty as charged?

No! Not Yet! And they are also not proved Innocent either. So backing them financially could be a mistake. You could actually be helping 2 murders to go free.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

Bla!Bla!Bla!

Still waiting to see your link which shows these guys are innocent.

[thailandchilli]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

Bla!Bla!Bla!

Still waiting to see your link which shows these guys are innocent.

Keep up with the thread Goldbuggy, I never said I would provide a link on innocence as that would be impossible to do besides which I have never stated they are innocent nor would I, likewise I would never state they are guilty, now try addressing the post you responded to rather than try to deflect with a dismal Bla!Bla!Bla!

[GOLDBUGGY]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

I would suggest that you pay a little more attention yourself instead of sickening us with your lurid details of what you surmise to have happened to "VICTORIA" that tragic night. You have not even got the decency to get the poor girl's name right, and goodness knows what effect your despicable comments would have on the parents of "HANNAH" if they were ever to read them.

I hope that I am not the only one to be disgusted by your totally inappropriate post.

Well actually, Victoria is Hannah's second name, so I got her name right. I understood she sometimes goes by that name to her friends so sorry for the confusion. I stand to be corrected.

Bla!Bla!Bla!

Again!

When are one of you guys ever going post a credible link that even suggests they guys are innocent?

[sambum]

In reply to GOLDBUGGY Post #106:-

So they're already guilty as charged?

No! Not Yet! And they are also not proved Innocent either. So backing them financially could be a mistake. You could actually be helping 2 murders to go free.

"No! Not Yet!" Obviously, your mind is made up already, and by the way, the word you should be using is "murderERS" (Actually, to be correct, in your own words, they are Not Yet, so you should possibly be using the term "the accused", and that would spare you the confusion!) I only mention it as you have used it incorrectly many times already.

And what's with the Blah, blah, blah? Pathetic childish, confrontational jargon which puts you in severe danger of getting the reputation of being a bit of a troll - if it hasn't happened already!

[GOLDBUGGY]

I pray the families of the desists do not become accessories to the locking up or killing of the two innocent boys by being silent.

They must do a little do-diligence and find the truth before being quiet during this trial.

Enough wrong doing already!!!

How many times does one have to repeat oneself for people to get the message? So please pay attention.

The Parents have already said that they have seen the evidence and that the Thai Police and Prosecutor have a strong case against the accused. What would you have them do now. Beg the Police to let these murders of their Children off for humanitarian reasons.

How humane where they to Victoria, when they murdered her male friend, who was trying to protect her, in front of her eyes? Then afterwards they violently raped her in her vagina and then in her anus? If this was not enough, they decide to entertain themselves but sticking a club or the end of a Garden Hoe inside of Victoria's Private Parts. (The Condom with her DNA on the outside and nothing on the inside). Then when they were finally bored with tormenting her, they bashed heard beautiful head in so badly that her own Parents could hardly recognize her.

So I ask you now. How Humane where they to her to deserve such royal treatment and sympathy from us now? That you, a decent person, should feel sorry for them now, when all evidence points to there guilt? When nobody here has provided one shed of evidence to prove they are innocent.

If they are innocent they will go free. If they are guilty they will either face Lethal Injection, or Life in Prison. Either one will keep them off the streets so they cannot do this again.

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

[GOLDBUGGY]

In reply to GOLDBUGGY Post #106:-

So they're already guilty as charged?

No! Not Yet! And they are also not proved Innocent either. So backing them financially could be a mistake. You could actually be helping 2 murders to go free.

"No! Not Yet!" Obviously, your mind is made up already, and by the way, the word you should be using is "murderERS" (Actually, to be correct, in your own words, they are Not Yet, so you should possibly be using the term "the accused", and that would spare you the confusion!) I only mention it as you have used it incorrectly many times already.

English Teacher Huh?

Well your post in which you said,"So they are already guilty as charged?" is not a question and does not require a Question Mark. It is a statement and should end in an Exclamation Mark as in "!".

I only mentioned it as I noticed you made the same mistake many time here.

[thailandchilli]

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

Again your making assumptions, now saying you know what side of the fence I sit on? What makes you think there are only 2 sides? Guilty or not guilty? Is that it, but how to you get to make a decision on that? Let the judges decide on the evidence presented?

No I'm on firmly on the side of justice and ensuring the right poeple are convicted. But to do that you need a fair and transparent trial and judicial procedure, that has not happened nor does it look like its going to happen, if thats the case then nobody will be satisfied with the judges decision no matter what it is other than those who have no concern for human rights.

But then you don't care so I'll leave it there with you

[IslandLover]

This latest statement doesn't bode well for the B2. Seems like their defence isn't up to much. I also consider that the parents can't 'demand' anything from the RTP, and unless they have privy to Andy Hall's findings they could well believe the B2 are guilty.

Personally I think appealing to the victims' families yet again is a bad move, considering at least one of those families is convinced the B2 are guilty.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

Again your making assumptions, now saying you know what side of the fence I sit on? What makes you think there are only 2 sides? Guilty or not guilty? Is that it, but how to you get to make a decision on that? Let the judges decide on the evidence presented?

No I'm on firmly on the side of justice and ensuring the right poeple are convicted. But to do that you need a fair and transparent trial and judicial procedure, that has not happened nor does it look like its going to happen, if thats the case then nobody will be satisfied with the judges decision no matter what it is other than those who have no concern for human rights.

But then you don't care so I'll leave it there with you

What do you consider a fare trial then? LA Law on TV, or the real world?

Thailand doesn't have a Jury System, but instead a 3 Judge Panel, is that fare? The Prosecution doesn't have to show the defense their evidence here, is that fare? Thailand has the Death Penalty, is that fare? This is the Law in Thailand and fare or not, it is still their Law and were the crime was committed. It has also been many of my real life experiences where things happened to me that wasn't fare.

So then what is a fare trail for you? To move it to the UK? Perhaps, but that isn't the law here. So no matter what, you probably will never see a Trail you would call fare or expect back home, because it isn't back home.

But just because things aren't the same, it doesn't prove one way or the other to the accused innocents or guilt. I personally would like to see all the evidence come up on both sides. There is enough doubt to drop the Confessions in the court and have the trail it based on Evidence only. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised at the last minutes to see a Guilty Plea.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Looks like your convinced already about their guilt, I take it you believe all the evidence thats been revealed by the RTP hook line and sinker...........despite the controversy surrounding its collection and the widely reported calls by authoritative bodies to have it independently tested. I notice your also adding your own theory as fact regards the use of the used condom! Where did you dream that one up? Or are you privy to information nobody else seems to have??

As for the families statement, non of us know what was presented to them, but we do know what the UK police thought of it, because their statement that came out some weeks following the families statement was that it was "confusing and contradictory"

Which just about sums up the whole investigative and judicial procedure in this case from the outset. If you have no concerns about this being a fair and transparent trial and the evidence produced being authentic then I feel for your lack of reality.

I believe my post which you attached yours to, ended by me saying that if they are Innocent, they will go Free. If they are guilty they will either get Lethal Injection or Life In Prison. Does this suggest to you that I am organizing a Lynch Mob as they are already guilty before trail?

Yes! I have my opinion. Just like many who post here think they are innocent, I tend to differ and I think they are guilty. I have stated many times that if someone can show me some proof or evidence to say they are innocent, I would listen and then perhaps change my mind. But so far nobody has done that. Just more Bla!Bla!Bla! Like you for instance.

No! You did not state that you thought they are innocent. But then you never attacked anyone else's post that said they were. Only mine! That to me says enough to tell me which side of the fence you sit on. Which personally I don't really care.

Again your making assumptions, now saying you know what side of the fence I sit on? What makes you think there are only 2 sides? Guilty or not guilty? Is that it, but how to you get to make a decision on that? Let the judges decide on the evidence presented?

No I'm on firmly on the side of justice and ensuring the right poeple are convicted. But to do that you need a fair and transparent trial and judicial procedure, that has not happened nor does it look like its going to happen, if thats the case then nobody will be satisfied with the judges decision no matter what it is other than those who have no concern for human rights.

But then you don't care so I'll leave it there with you

What do you consider a fare trial then? LA Law on TV, or the real world?

Thailand doesn't have a Jury System, but instead a 3 Judge Panel, is that fare? The Prosecution doesn't have to show the defense their evidence here, is that fare? Thailand has the Death Penalty, is that fare? This is the Law in Thailand and fare or not, it is still their Law and were the crime was committed. It has also been many of my real life experiences where things happened to me that wasn't fare.

So then what is a fare trail for you? To move it to the UK? Perhaps, but that isn't the law here. So no matter what, you probably will never see a Trail you would call fare or expect back home, because it isn't back home.

But just because things aren't the same, it doesn't prove one way or the other to the accused innocents or guilt. I personally would like to see all the evidence come up on both sides. There is enough doubt to drop the Confessions in the court and have the trail it based on Evidence only. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised at the last minutes to see a Guilty Plea.

[Smurkster]

Not having a jury is a hinderance to justice..I am personally not against the death penalty if used for murder like The United States still retains in 38 states and federally. But in Thailand you can receive the death penalty for crimes less than death and in all fairness the punishment don't fit the crime.

[IslandLover]

These two boys are headed towards the rocks of disaster and all decent folk feel a deep concern for them .... and how to avert that no one seems to know.

The murder of those two young decent holidaymakers was done in a manner of extreme hate and violence ...... Where would or how would those two Burmese boys develop motivation like that?

However if someone had an argument with the young lady and Face was felt to be lost ..... no more smiles just hate.

Just saying!

No idea what the character of these two Myanmar men are like. They could be totally innocent pattsies or psychos for all I know. Haven't met them - have you?

We had a nice young sweet maid from that country. Her mum worked locally, for many years and was very nice. The maid thieved from us, was caught, forgiven and given a second chance, with support. Thieved again and caught again. Her mum and family were really shamed and sent her back to Myanmar. Since then, we found she thieved some things of special value. If I showed you a picture of her playing with my disabled son you would think she was lovely.

Appearances can be very deceptive. Just saying!

Thieving is not in the same league as murdering with extreme violence.

[IslandLover]

Can we please stop referring to the two accused as boys? They aren't thirteen years old. They are men.

Many people seem to think that all Myanmar people are peaceful good law abiding Buddhists.

Nothing further from the truth.

Could these two be guilty? I don't know but please stop using " Burmese" and "Boys" as some sort of qualification for their innocence.

There are some very, very nasty Burmese around...with very conservative views of western women who could easily rape and kill those whom they assumed to be acting in an immoral way.

Don't forget Myanmar is a neighbouring country of Bangladesh where "loose" women are treated in a less than friendly manner.

Duh, "boy" is an accepted colloquialism used to describe young (and not so young) men, as is "lad", in the English language. BTW any male under the age of 30 is a boy to me

[attento]

The Families have already seen the evidence and have already commented on that, saying the Police have a strong case against them. As in DNA and other Evidence. They also said they did not want anyone to be tried and unjustly convicted for this crime, but made no further comment about the accused held in custody.

Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law. Village talk is just that. Village Talk! To be honest, if I had my ass in the same sling as these guys have, I would be begging for my life to, and asking for fairness, or for forgiveness from the Parents.

In a weeks time the evidence I hope will all come out, then we can decide for ourselves. Until such time, I will stick with the parents and think they are the guilty ones. .

"Everything else is just Hearsay or Gossip, which is not submitted in any Court of Law." Wrong.

Hearsay is admissible in civil and criminal trials in the UK. Hearsay is admissible in US Federal Court.

Only admissible in UK and USA courts within a defined set of circumstances. There is not a total acceptance.

However, this case will be tried under Thai Law, which may be different.

(not saying the UK/USA cirmstances are not met in this case)

No! Hearsay Evidence is not admissible in any Civilized Court and only under very rare circumstances they will consider its admittance.

You appear to have this backwards. Read My Link.

That is precisely the point I made. Hearsay evidence is permitted, but ONLY under a closely defined set of circumstances.

To say that Hearsay evidence is never accepted in UK or USA courts is incorrect. However rare it may be, if the legal parameters are met, then it IS admitted in UK/USA courts. The rarity factor would imply that these precise circumstances for admissibility are infrequently present. Whether similar provisos apply in the Thai legal system, I am not aware.

[sambum]

In reply to GOLDBUGGY Post #106:-

So they're already guilty as charged?

No! Not Yet! And they are also not proved Innocent either. So backing them financially could be a mistake. You could actually be helping 2 murders to go free.

"No! Not Yet!" Obviously, your mind is made up already, and by the way, the word you should be using is "murderERS" (Actually, to be correct, in your own words, they are Not Yet, so you should possibly be using the term "the accused", and that would spare you the confusion!) I only mention it as you have used it incorrectly many times already.

English Teacher Huh?

Well your post in which you said,"So they are already guilty as charged?" is not a question and does not require a Question Mark. It is a statement and should end in an Exclamation Mark as in "!".

I only mentioned it as I noticed you made the same mistake many time here.

Prefixing a sentence with the word "So" can be taken as a statement, or in the case above, as a question when followed by a question mark - the same as your statement, "English Teacher Huh?" (Which if you want to be strictly correct, should have a comma between the word "Teacher" and "Huh?", and the word "Huh" should not begin with a capital letter H) Anyway, this is getting seriously off topic, and I am sure that other posters are not particularly interested in the intricacies of the English language, and is becoming just a case of bickering, so I suggest that you/we let that one lie.

However, I now realise that your mind is (as I suspected) already made up,(like a minority of about 3 or 4 other posters on here), so as far as I am concerned, there is no further point in so I ask you to just ponder on this. You base your opinion on the facts that are available to you - the ones that the RTP consider to be helpful in their forthcoming prosecution, and the ones that the British Police, and the families of the victims are presumably basing their opinions on. Most of the other posters on here also base their opinion on the fact that the way that this investigation has been conducted leaves a lot to be desired (to put it bluntly!), and consequently are rather sceptical of the facts and conflicting statements that have been presented by the RTP. The very fact that the "perfect" case was rejected 2 or 3 times by the Prosecutor's Office suggests that there is something rather untoward about the whole situation, and that combined with conflicting statements, the Chief of Police being replaced early in the case, contamination of the crime scene etc. etc. etc. would throw up warning flags to anyone who was trying to seek the truth.

[sambum]

This latest statement doesn't bode well for the B2. Seems like their defence isn't up to much. I also consider that the parents can't 'demand' anything from the RTP, and unless they have privy to Andy Hall's findings they could well believe the B2 are guilty.

Personally I think appealing to the victims' families yet again is a bad move, considering at least one of those families is convinced the B2 are guilty.

Yes, based on the evidence that the RTP allowed the British Police to see during their "observations".