Chinese Tourist Falls to Death From Zip Line in Chiang Mai

[wvavin]

Thais have absolutely no clue on what is safety standard. Whatever equipment thats works they would just continue to use and make money until it breaks. Same goes to the aviation issues with the ICAO.

[The Deerhunter]

thai logic

if chinese man stay home, he no dead now

OR: "Not Thailand fault. He just very unlucky guy. Could have happened anywhere."

[FolkGuitar]

My condolences to the family of the fallen man. Things like this are always a tragedy. However...

Ships are safe in the harbor, but that's not what ships are for. There is an element of danger in most adventure activities. We can strive to minimize the risk but we can never eliminate it completely, no matter how much some might want to. This isn't a Nanny State. If you want that sort of mommy/daddy protection, having your hand held while you walk down a paved road, you can find it back home. The various zip-line companies have been in business for quite a few years, with a safety record that, for Thailand, is pretty damn good. Folks can say 'I just knew something like this was going to happen...: Well yeah! Wait 5-7 years and it probably will. Wait, and someone will probably get hit in the head with a golf ball or drop a free weight on their chest. Just give it enough time.... Skiers now wear helmets on the slops in most major ski areas, and all have ski patrol personnel monitoring, watching for potential problems, yet every year in several ski areas, someone skis out of control, slams into a tree and dies.

Adventure sports are for people who live in the fast lane. Most of us don't play golf. We tend to live on the edge. And while we all say we want safety, what we really want is an element of danger. And sometimes we fall off that edge. “Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse!”

There is no way that Zip Lining falls under the classification of an adventure sport and having an expectation of proper safety procedures and equipment is hardly an indication that you require mommy/daddy protection in a Nanny State. Your analogies are ridiculous.

You 'may' wish to do a Google Search using as the search parameters 'adventure sports,' 'adventure sports zip line,' or zip line adventure sports.' There are several hundred websites on just the first few pages that disagree with you...

Let me introduce you to just a few of them, close to home:

(NOTE: These are all Chiang Mai listings, and all have either the word Adventure or Extreme right in their titles and ALL include zip-lining.)

http://tqmmathailand.com/adventure-activities/

http://www.getyourguide.com/chiang-mai-l271/extreme-sports-adrenaline-tc85/

http://chiangmai.thaivisa.com/adventure-sports-activities-in-chiang-mai/#.VZc75OH1-Os

http://www.actionsportasia.com/what-is-the-best-zipline-in-chiang-mai/

http://www.travelhubchiangmai.com/adventure_activities.html

We could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea by now. There is nothing ridiculous in the analogies. Only in your definitions.

OH Google!!!

Google Doctor and Doctor Who is in the responses. Can Doctor Who treat my injuries from my adventure zip line experience?

You are correct. Google WILL give all sites with 'Doctor' in its search parameters. But an intelligent researcher would ignore those that don't fit ALL the parameters.

Just as Google listed thousands upon thousands of sites listing Adventure Rafting, Adventure Rock Climbing, even Adventure Trekking, when I input 'Adventure Sports,' but intelligent researchers will ignore those when looking for Adventure Zip-lining. I find it interesting that you wouldn't realize this yourself.

[Acharn]

When I was in the Army, I never saw anything wrong with jumping out of a perfectly good airplane that was not malfunctioning. I never did it myself, but I could understand the guys who chose to do that. Ziplining, bungee jumping, hang gliding, have never attracted me. There seem to be a lot of people who really want to do those things, but I don't understand them

[northernphil]

You 'may' wish to do a Google Search using as the search parameters 'adventure sports,' 'adventure sports zip line,' or zip line adventure sports.' There are several hundred websites on just the first few pages that disagree with you...

Let me introduce you to just a few of them, close to home:

(NOTE: These are all Chiang Mai listings, and all have either the word Adventure or Extreme right in their titles and ALL include zip-lining.)

http://tqmmathailand.com/adventure-activities/

http://www.getyourguide.com/chiang-mai-l271/extreme-sports-adrenaline-tc85/

http://chiangmai.thaivisa.com/adventure-sports-activities-in-chiang-mai/#.VZc75OH1-Os

http://www.actionsportasia.com/what-is-the-best-zipline-in-chiang-mai/

http://www.travelhubchiangmai.com/adventure_activities.html

We could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea by now. There is nothing ridiculous in the analogies. Only in your definitions.

Google is hardly the arbiter of definitions. It is merely a search engine. It puts out results based on algorithms that incorporate things like the wording within a site. If a zipline website chooses to use those words--as it is trying to give the appearance of being an extreme adventure sport, then that is what Google will show.

I see you choose to argue 'Google' rather than the thousands of different companies offering zip-lining and calling it 'Adventure Sport.' Google isn't defining anything. It's simply giving us access to (in this case) the world view of what constitutes an Adventure Sport. That a handful people posting to ThaiVisa wish to dispute those thousands is fine. You can call a sparrow a brick if you wish to, but the fact is, it will still be able to fly.

I'm with you Folk Guitar , some say on here zip lining is not a sport ,not an adventure nor extreme. How do these one clarify what is sport and what is not. What about darts , ok in a pub and could be dangerous if the dart hit a bystander, Footy is a sport but no adventure and not extreme. My point is if there is an element of risk to ones health such as rafting , bungy jumping or zip lining then folk will do it. I have done a bit of rafting on flat water barely making 3 knots, but I go out on my PCX every week and take a chance , the car would be safer but no fun. An adventure sport is in the eye if the beholder not in a dictionary.

[rosst]

I have been waiting for this to happen for a while now!

Previously I used to work for a outdoor adventure company that offered visiting students and corporate clients zip line activites as part of their programme, so for this instance we had to used a local company as we did not own our own zipline.

I would always go and do a recce of their services before the groups arrrive and I ALWAYS ALWAYS found the same problems., When I brought these issues up with the management, they either claimed I was making it up and that they know what they are doing and have never had an accident, or they said they would take the comments under advisement, obvioulsy, when I went with the clients the same issues arised.

Due to me not owning the outdoor company I worked for I could only do so much, and if the clients wanted to go ziplining there really was not much I could do about it, as it was "what they requested" was the answer given from above.

Safety concerns that ALWAYS came up in EVERY SINGLE company I checked out in Chiang Mai ( i recced at least 6 diffenet companies)

- Helmets being removed at the end of the session, whilst still being stood under other people coming down.

- Hand held bamboo sticks used as brakes, that were not attached to anything, could be easily dropped, see first issue.

- Karabiners not being screwed closed, and in 2 cases, the karabiner was so old the karabiner could not actually close.

- Ropes used for descending, never removed, and having the knots being tied into the permanently

- If using a sit harness, allowing the clients to invert, could leading to possibly fall out of harness but also great risk of catching the ankle against the wire ( very painful)

- Many Many times, not being attached to anything other than the "instructor" physically holding me ( 100kg man against 50 kg thai guy) on most platforms very high up.

- Poorly planned programme timings, so much so that clients back up against eachother causing considerable waiting time on platforms ( too many people on platforms, Instructor not being able to see his group.

- Excessive use of wires, without rest so that it casues the wires to heat up and stretch making the runs longer and thus the clients cannot reach the other side, so they have to be "rescued by the cowboy", then see issue above

- wrong shape karabiner used for wrong reasons

- drunken ytruck drivers picking up clients at the end of the zipline.

- wire clips attached to the wires incorrectly

-trees way too small being used for zip line runs.

- no first aid kits carried by most.

- no real operating procedures in case of emergency.

.

please dont get me stated on some rafting comapanies,..... dear god!

RANT OVER...Whew.

Reading your list, I have to say that there are few issues there which would effect their profitability and being able to demonstrate these safety items, they could corner the market for foreigners if properly promoted so one wonders why it is not being done ??

Good man for doing your job well, sleep well it did not happen on your watch.

[Petmag]

Safety issues again, this should not be happening RIP

[gandalf12]

How many people die from high-risk activities such as zip-lining, ATV's and rafting in Thailand? Wager it's a lot less than the 25,000 road deaths a year. So is driving in Thailand considered to be high risk?

The same methodoligy asks why there are more shark attacks in shallow water then there are in deep water. Answer is there are more people in shallow water. Same for your point. More people drive motor vehicles than use Zip wires and the like. You can not compare as the numbers involved are totally different. Offer the full statistics and then maybe there is some validity to your point.

[cmsally]

The articles keep mentioning the zoo Tarzan zipline when the guy died in Doi Saket. Same company with different locations?? One article seems to stress more about the zoo than the accident. It is a very strange angle on the reporting.

[fred Kubasa]

Anybody, even venturing into Thailand, who straps on a Thai made belt, allowing Thai educated workers to strap you in is haphazard at best. Hell, if I can't get what I need, on the side of the street I live, I won't even cross the street here !

[slapout]

the tourist casualities here are treated about like battle field casualities, take id (dog tag) record, strip valuables, or items desired, roll the corpse/injured out of the way so the next paying customer. (grunt) can be exposed to line of fire.

its the same with planning the tours, no ''what if'' escape plans, no preparing proper equiptment/training for tourist no those leading the tour and maintance has been lost in translation booze/drug level of many working to provide tourist service.

there is no expectation of repeat preformance by a single individual, just wait for replacements to be brought forward.

the population, birth rate and stupidity of much of the worlds population is such a steady supply of cannon fodder is always on the way

the service personal forget they have 2 bosses the man who pays their paycheck and the tourists who pay their paymaster, when they learn this customer relations will improve by leaps and bounds

[Johnny S]

Withheld from the media??? I saw this on Thai news the day after it happend. The Doi Saket head man was interviewed and blammed the tourist

TW see it on the hews too and she didnt understand why I couldnt read it on TV ... Hiding a tourist death cause the Supreme Leader is visiting ... Ridiculous Banana Republic ...

This so called "Accident" ... I call it manslaughter ...

Folkguitar : You are going to far in your thai apologizes ...

[gandalf12]

the tourist casualities here are treated about like battle field casualities, take id (dog tag) record, strip valuables, or items desired, roll the corpse/injured out of the way so the next paying customer. (grunt) can be exposed to line of fire.

its the same with planning the tours, no ''what if'' escape plans, no preparing proper equiptment/training for tourist no those leading the tour and maintance has been lost in translation booze/drug level of many working to provide tourist service.

there is no expectation of repeat preformance by a single individual, just wait for replacements to be brought forward.

the population, birth rate and stupidity of much of the worlds population is such a steady supply of cannon fodder is always on the way

the service personal forget they have 2 bosses the man who pays their paycheck and the tourists who pay their paymaster, when they learn this customer relations will improve by leaps and bounds

They actualy only have one paymaster.....the customer. The owner isnt going to pay if there are no customers

[tomacht8]

tragic

RIP

A big problem are also the unqualified copy cats.
On my island there is a very well-managed Zip Line facility here.
So a local tour operator thought he can do that business too.
Photographed the equipment, ordered then the material on the Internet,
and here we go.
Open then the Zip Line Copy with no real knowledge, without experience and without any qualifications.
The greed for money overshadowed any responsibility and safety awareness.

[cardinalblue]

All modes of transportation in the USA have acceptable rates of mortality/injury or they (gov/regulators) would shut them down. Doesn't mean efforts are not being made to lower them on a continuous basis...

Big difference between preventable and acceptable and we as consumers live with both and play the probability game on an individual basis....

CB

[Lupatria]

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha was visiting Chiang Mai at the time, and local authorities did not want any "negative news" to surface during his trip.

Looks like the local authorities missed an opportunity to finally execute a couple of journalists.

[searcher22]

Even in Canada, according to a CBC news article, there is no real oversight of the outdoor adventure industry, which includes zip-lining. Once you sign that waiver form, a company will almost never be held responsible, even if the accident is clearly their fault.

The article ends on this note: "Travellers looking for adventures outside of Canada need to be even more careful. If you start to stray further and further away, going into developing nations where tourism is just getting organized from an infrastructure standpoint, we can realistically expect there’s nothing there as guidelines go."

Outdoor adventure industry lacks oversight, victims lack recourse: No national tracking of accidents, deaths for popular activities. (March 2014)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/outdoor-adventure-industry-lacks-oversight-victims-lack-recourse-1.2561140

[lostmebike]

Yes the death of a tourist on a `safe` attraction is terrible news, especially their family but if we are honest, is this really a surprise? Those of us who have visited often or indeed live can`t be shocked by this news. Safety here is ... well, unsafe!

What`s more disappointing is the apparent hush job by the local authorities. I thought transparency and honesty was supposed to be the way forward for this new democratic government?

I`m sure his greatness won`t be amused.

[Nobb]

I worked for USS in America and was a master craftsman. We had to use harnesses ever day but had to have them inspected by a trained harness tester every 6

months. And a tag was placed on the tested harness to show the new inspection date. Safety first and i wonder if a true trained tester is even inspecting there harnesses now. Bad press saying they did not want the PM to know about accident!

[Alwyn]

" the news was withheld from the media until today because junta chairman and Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha was visiting Chiang Mai at the time, and local authorities did not want any "negative news" to surface during his trip."... pretty soon he's going to be thinking that everywhere he goes always smells of fresh paint... RIP to the Chniese tourist

[Johnsy]

Safety equipment does not malfunction, it is always human error! Even if the harness, buckle, whatever failed it is because of human error in not using, inspecting and maintaining the equipment appropriately. But this is Thailand where due process, liability and industry standards is nothing more than "a wing and a prayer".

[samsara]

You 'may' wish to do a Google Search using as the search parameters 'adventure sports,' 'adventure sports zip line,' or zip line adventure sports.' There are several hundred websites on just the first few pages that disagree with you...

Let me introduce you to just a few of them, close to home:

(NOTE: These are all Chiang Mai listings, and all have either the word Adventure or Extreme right in their titles and ALL include zip-lining.)

http://tqmmathailand.com/adventure-activities/

http://www.getyourguide.com/chiang-mai-l271/extreme-sports-adrenaline-tc85/

http://chiangmai.thaivisa.com/adventure-sports-activities-in-chiang-mai/#.VZc75OH1-Os

http://www.actionsportasia.com/what-is-the-best-zipline-in-chiang-mai/

http://www.travelhubchiangmai.com/adventure_activities.html

We could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea by now. There is nothing ridiculous in the analogies. Only in your definitions.

Google is hardly the arbiter of definitions. It is merely a search engine. It puts out results based on algorithms that incorporate things like the wording within a site. If a zipline website chooses to use those words--as it is trying to give the appearance of being an extreme adventure sport, then that is what Google will show.

I see you choose to argue 'Google' rather than the thousands of different companies offering zip-lining and calling it 'Adventure Sport.' Google isn't defining anything. It's simply giving us access to (in this case) the world view of what constitutes an Adventure Sport. That a handful people posting to ThaiVisa wish to dispute those thousands is fine. You can call a sparrow a brick if you wish to, but the fact is, it will still be able to fly.

I'm with you Folk Guitar , some say on here zip lining is not a sport ,not an adventure nor extreme. How do these one clarify what is sport and what is not. What about darts , ok in a pub and could be dangerous if the dart hit a bystander, Footy is a sport but no adventure and not extreme. My point is if there is an element of risk to ones health such as rafting , bungy jumping or zip lining then folk will do it. I have done a bit of rafting on flat water barely making 3 knots, but I go out on my PCX every week and take a chance , the car would be safer but no fun. An adventure sport is in the eye if the beholder not in a dictionary.

ziplining requires no skill. skill would be the operative word when determining if something is, indeed, a sport. hooking oneself up to a harness and sitting in the air is not exactly skillful.

therefore, ziplining is definitely not a sport. it could be termed an 'adventure activity'. but, i, too, would agree that sitting on your ass in the air is no more 'adventure' filled than sitting in an airplane at takeoff/landing. should we now google 'commercial airline adventure'?

[cocopops]

Adventure sports are for people who live in the fast lane. Most of us don't play golf. We tend to live on the edge. And while we all say we want safety, what we really want is an element of danger. And sometimes we fall off that edge. “Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse!”

Ziplining is not an adventure sport. It is an amusement park ride, nothing more. It offers the impression of danger, just as does a roller coaster or as a haunted house ride offers the impression of ghosts.

You seem to think that there is an acceptable death rate for ziplining and think that since it doesn't happen in Thailand often, that proves they are OK. No, this isn't OK, and this death was preventable.

I don't think ANY death is acceptable. How dare you suggest otherwise? The fact that it does occur is just that; fact. Please don't confuse your emotional response to the situation as anyone else's acceptance. You are hardly in any position to know what someone else thinks or feels.

Usually, when engaged in dialog, we assume that the other party's statements are reflective of how they think or feel with respect to the subject matter at hand. The alternative is to accuse them of lying or ineloquence. So you see when you say "what we really want is an element of danger", and then follow it up with "Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse!” - a quote that for most people invokes the short and tragic life of James Dean - it is entirely reasonable to assume that you see "an acceptable death rate for ziplining".

If you have been misunderstood, then by all means correct that misunderstanding. But chastising other posters for interpreting your posts in the most straightforward way possible is ridiculous.

[a99az]

Guess that means it's time to change the wire.

[chrisinth]

"due to faulty safety equipment, police said." WRONG. Due to possible mismanagement and possibly inadequate safety standards.

My My, we do jump to conclusions don't we?

What I read in the OP was "when a safety lock malfunctioned", and it is an unfortunate fact of life that this does sometimes happen regardless of how high a standard of maintenance is followed.

Yes, Thailand doesn't have a spectacular record for safety, but one shouldn't tar all until all the facts are known.

[chrisinth]

RIP very sad.

But to withhold such news so it didn't upset the generals visit with " negative news" is almost criminal as people should have been made aware of the potential problem.

Totally agree this is news should be announced immediate to public another case as where Thailand's future is going like the Zip line down fast

This was from an off-the-record account from a "policeman" that the news was not reported to the media.

Speculating here I know but, that is not to say that the next of kin were not informed at the earliest opportunity.

I feel a bit sorry for the uninvolved public sometimes when information isn't immediately available.......................

And other times I don't.................

[optad]

All modes of transportation in the USA have acceptable rates of mortality/injury or they (gov/regulators) would shut them down. Doesn't mean efforts are not being made to lower them on a continuous basis...

Big difference between preventable and acceptable and we as consumers live with both and play the probability game on an individual basis....

CB

Vacuous. Adds nothing.

[optad]

I worked for USS in America and was a master craftsman. We had to use harnesses ever day but had to have them inspected by a trained harness tester every 6

months. And a tag was placed on the tested harness to show the new inspection date. Safety first and i wonder if a true trained tester is even inspecting there harnesses now. Bad press saying they did not want the PM to know about accident!

Agree. Basic rope access skills is highly regulated from an operation/ skills point in Australia even before discussing equipment standards. Establish the standards, regulate and enforce them. Becomes workplace culture.

Someone else here refereed to the tourist casualties as collateral cost of 'being' almost or akin to battle warfare. LOL. Pathetic but true. Because tourists just keep rolling through, repeat instances just don't have the appropriate effect on industry in LOS.

[nithisa78]

RIP

[nithisa78]

I see the mental giants and malcontents have spoken loudly. They have fallen much further than the Chinese gentleman.