Why Thais don't or won't speak English.

[Guest]

I taught English in Thailand for five years, several different schools. All were the same - English was absolutely at the bottom of rung for importance. If there was a Christmas program where the students needed to be excused from class to rehearse, English was ALWAYS the first choice. We told every new teacher coming in we are there to give the appearance of teaching, not actually teach. As long as their student books were completed neatly, all was fine.

This is a startling confession of incompetence and transferring the blame to others.

The fact is, those children were in your classroom and did not learn anything.

And the fault lies with whom exactly?

Kudos to you (sarcasm) for ensuring other teachers had this crutch to fall back on.

Now we understand the genuine root of the poor English skills of Thai graduates.

You took the money and the Visa... and the rest was Kabuki Theater.

Well played sir, well played indeed.

[Guest]

Although the topic is Thais speaking English, so many here are patting themselves on the back for their ability to speak Thai.

I have many friends who insist they do.

One small issue, there seems to be a group of people who do not agree with them.

Thai People.

These Farang actually get annoyed when they "speak Thai" and Thai People do not understand. So they say it again ... LOUDER.

Then they actually get exasperated and angry, like the idiot in this story is a native speaker, not their terrible accent in a language that is completely tonal.

It is pretty funny really .. and trust me, the Thais are laughing too.

In five years, I have met perhaps, five genuine fluent Farang who speak Thai, and all of them owned businesses where they had to speak it well to make money since mistakes were extremely costly (clothing manufacturing and gems)

The irony of the story is, most Thias, like my wife are incredibly fast learners of English .. 20 times faster than I am at Thai. And since Thai has no value outside the Kingdom, and English is gold .. which do you think I focus on?

I want her English to be as good as possible, to complement the 4 year degree I am paying for ....

I live in Bangkok, Thai people speak A LOT of English.. Not conversational, but basic needs English and can answer "where is" how much" what time" how do I " etc.

I speak very basic Thai .. but the very very small part I speak, I make the effort to ensure the accent is perfect. That goes a lot furhter than rattling on with gibberish they do not understand.

And by the way, when we say "English" we mean American English. Like it or not, THAT is the "Universal English:" people refer to.

I go to meetings folks from the UK and Oz, and have not clue one what the hell they are saying.

[Zyxel]

I worked in the tourism industry in Europe for 5 years, the worst at this were the French... Being so stubborn as to miss a ferry, due to language, one stated, im french, English language is beneath me..... Never had an issue in Thailand....

As a native English person, I've noticed this a lot in France, more than any other country I've been too. I've only been on holiday there a few times, and (for example), a woman in a snow resort asked me to help tie the shoes of her daughter (actually ski boots). I of course did, then she spoke to me in French in France, and asked me why I come to her country and not learn the language first? I was only there for 5 days <deleted> and she wanted a favour from me, not the other way around. I haven't seen this in any other country. Another time I was on holiday there we went to the same restaurant every day, and the owner spoke only French to us. On the last day he said "if you want another drink then ask now, as we'll be closing soon" (in English). We stopped and looked, and realised that he was able but not willing to speak English the whole time. He 'lost face' big time, as it came out of his mouth before realising that 'the beard had slipped'.

I'm not saying the whole world should learn English, but if they are running a business for foreigners, it seems a bit silly. I have an online business that serves so far 143 countries, and nearly 50% of them are French customers. I do my best with my limited language skills (though admittedly I have to rely on google translate a lot of the time), but I always make an effort to speak in the native language of the customer. Obviously I can't be proficient in that many languages, but in Thailand I find it embarrassing that most EU nationals speak near perfect English, or certainly fluent if not native, often better than people from my home country.

Completely off topic. Some people never miss an opportunity to vent their french bashing. Quite common on this forum.

[lostinisaan]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

Gotta agree with you on that. Would have been way better for "Noy" to have her own business, where her former teacher's buying something.

Oh boy, there're too many Noy's and Lek's and I doubt that somebody would "fall over" by such an incredible event in a mall.

Let's just hope that Noy will have many more "cute victory smiles" in her face in the near future.

Whatever that looks like. Using my respective imagination, I drew a picture converted it onto a different format and here's the result:

Noy's cute victory smile".

[lostinisaan]

I worked in the tourism industry in Europe for 5 years, the worst at this were the French... Being so stubborn as to miss a ferry, due to language, one stated, im french, English language is beneath me..... Never had an issue in Thailand....

As a native English person, I've noticed this a lot in France, more than any other country I've been too. I've only been on holiday there a few times, and (for example), a woman in a snow resort asked me to help tie the shoes of her daughter (actually ski boots). I of course did, then she spoke to me in French in France, and asked me why I come to her country and not learn the language first? I was only there for 5 days <deleted> and she wanted a favour from me, not the other way around. I haven't seen this in any other country. Another time I was on holiday there we went to the same restaurant every day, and the owner spoke only French to us. On the last day he said "if you want another drink then ask now, as we'll be closing soon" (in English). We stopped and looked, and realised that he was able but not willing to speak English the whole time. He 'lost face' big time, as it came out of his mouth before realising that 'the beard had slipped'.

I'm not saying the whole world should learn English, but if they are running a business for foreigners, it seems a bit silly. I have an online business that serves so far 143 countries, and nearly 50% of them are French customers. I do my best with my limited language skills (though admittedly I have to rely on google translate a lot of the time), but I always make an effort to speak in the native language of the customer. Obviously I can't be proficient in that many languages, but in Thailand I find it embarrassing that most EU nationals speak near perfect English, or certainly fluent if not native, often better than people from my home country.

Completely off topic. Some people never miss an opportunity to vent their french bashing. Quite common on this forum.

It seems that you didn't get the plot. At the end of his post, he's even mentioning that he met many non native English speakers from Europe with a great command in English, which can be seen as a compliment for French dudes as well. Or did France get kicked out of the EU just recently?

Vive de la France.......

[ToddinChonburi]

Well first many are not taught the alphabet correctly. W for V or V for W L for R and so on

I was asked , what is a Volvo ? it is a car. OH you mean Wolvo right. Now why would you miss the first V but get the second V

Thai say it this way !!!!! But it is wrong !!! do you not want to learn it correctly ?

How about Bulilam or Buriram.

A 10 year old is barely passing school and the family thinks its funny.

[lostinisaan]

I have certainly found English is spoken less and less in the 30 + years I have been coming to Thailand. The main problem appears to be employing non-native speakers who are often unintelligible themselves!

You're not alone with your opinion, the level of English was better 10 + years ago, where many schools had almost zero NES and NNES teachers employed.

That was also the time when some school superiors found out that “teachers” from the Philippines were willing to sign up for 10 K/month. The problem was and still is, that the HoD at many schools don’t even know the difference between a good spoken English and some terribly mispronounced version of Tinglish, or Germish.

In 2005, more and more Filipinos got hired by schools all over the country, because they are cheap labor.

But I'd be very careful to blame the NNES guys only, please go to some schools and you'll find youngish Scottish guys, who're hardly understood by most Americans, then please have a look at some Cockney English speaking teachers, who don't even know if their students understand them.

There's such a variety of people from English speaking countries employed as English teachers, who're definitely very hard to understand, where most American have to ask twice, or thrice what’s being said. So how should Thai students, learners of a second language follow them?

Even some South Londoners are barely understood by Americans, then look at some Australian slang, South African Dutchinglish and so on.

How about some Irishmen? I remember when the first agency found a school director in lower northeast, who signed up with them. After three years teaching at a government school, somebody approached me if I wouldn't be interested to "make" 12 K more/month and I started to work for this agency.

One was an electrician, two others didn’t even finish high school and none of them was a degree holder, one of them was a painter who made his living in the UK through some day by day jobs, avoiding to pay tax.

Almost all of the guys who already worked there were backpackers, the agency had found at places like Khao San road, somewhere in Pattaya and other tourist destinations. All they had to do was to come to their office in Bangkok, sign a contract and they’re sent to schools all over Thailand, without any experience.

Three of them were convicted criminals and it still scares the shit out of me, thinking about one of them being my son’s teacher. One was a killer, another guy got caught after an armed robbery, because they found his fingerprints on the pump gun that was being used.

The students had one hour per week, "taught" by native English speakers, some of them didn't even finish high school.

I remember an Alaskan who's asking me after his first lesson how to spell Wednesday? He spelled it Wdsday, the kids even told him teacher, teacher, noooooooo. Of course did he not listen to the kids and later told me that they’d spell the weekday like that in Alaska.

Yes, many NNES speakers shouldn't be allowed to go into a Thai classroom, but same goes for some NES teachers, who only want to make some money to be able to get drunk every day. Then the usual Monday and Friday sickness, caused by a terrible hangover?

There're Filipinos who "only teach subjects" who can't even have an easy conversation with a person who's good at English. How can somebody teach a subject like science, who's not even able to have a simple conversation in English?

I've got a grade one and a grade two class and also teach them science and math in English. The vocabulary in their textbooks for second grade science is huge, compared to their level of English a very difficult task to teach them.

Plenty of students in the Kingdom get taught by very poor English speakers and the students do not understand the teachers’ mispronounced English. Of course are Thai kids not criticizing their teachers, so they keep quit and follow the “instructions.”

All in all, it’s the school superiors/directors fault and I feel very sorry for these kids. You won't get good teachers when you offer them 15 K a month. There're some brilliant non -native English speakers out there, but they wouldn't sign up for 20 K/month.

To make a long story short. There're many facts why Thais after 12 or more years of "learning English" are so poor in conversational, but also in comprehensive English. Greediness of school directors, who give a damn about the kids' progress in English seems to be everywhere........

Thai English teachers who only write some stuff out of an English book on the board and let the kids copy it, while only speaking Thai in their English lesson.

A colleague of mine just graduated with a Master's in English, but she's usually only speaking Thai with me, because she might think she'd lose face, making a lot of mistakes.Of course was the Thesis not written by her and she's got no clue about her own Thesis, because she didn't create it. There're so many words she doesn't even know their meaning and it's a sad example of cheating.

Cheating the students seems to be the biggest problem, of course did she get a good pay raise, but failed to pass her CEFR test and only scored A 1, which is damn poor. A Master's degree holder who scored A 1 in CEFR? Even a dumb director should start to think what's wrong with it.

She'll be a trainee in a CEFR seminar next month and I already know that she won't learn enough on a weekend to have a B 1, or 2 score, which isn't difficult to achieve. I conducted a CEFR seminar last weekend and there're some high school teachers who scored A 0. God, please help me.

I've got students in grade two who're much better in having a conversation, but this woman is allowed to teach grade six students English?

Then plenty of agency teachers, who do not have a clue how to teach a language, followed by a lot of non-native English speakers with a terrible command in English.

Weird is that it’s more about physical appearance and high school students who “evaluate” their foreign teachers” will always give a good looking and youngish guy a much better evaluation than to a guy who’s really concerned that the students learn English.

If a foreign teacher really takes his/her job serious and gives his students a low grade, the students will finally vote him/her out, while the youngish backpacker, with absolutely zero experience will continue “teaching” at this institution. It might sound weird, but it’s the naked truth

Now please put all of them in a pot, stir them well and the outcome, or end product is the current situation at Thai schools regarding English efficiency.

Go with the flow, or end up in the snow.

[Myran]

My experience with Thais is quite the opposite – even though many of them have very slim English skills, they are very keen on using and practising those skills with a farang.

[Shiver]

I worked in the tourism industry in Europe for 5 years, the worst at this were the French... Being so stubborn as to miss a ferry, due to language, one stated, im french, English language is beneath me..... Never had an issue in Thailand....

As a native English person, I've noticed this a lot in France, more than any other country I've been too. I've only been on holiday there a few times, and (for example), a woman in a snow resort asked me to help tie the shoes of her daughter (actually ski boots). I of course did, then she spoke to me in French in France, and asked me why I come to her country and not learn the language first? I was only there for 5 days <deleted> and she wanted a favour from me, not the other way around. I haven't seen this in any other country. Another time I was on holiday there we went to the same restaurant every day, and the owner spoke only French to us. On the last day he said "if you want another drink then ask now, as we'll be closing soon" (in English). We stopped and looked, and realised that he was able but not willing to speak English the whole time. He 'lost face' big time, as it came out of his mouth before realising that 'the beard had slipped'.

I'm not saying the whole world should learn English, but if they are running a business for foreigners, it seems a bit silly. I have an online business that serves so far 143 countries, and nearly 50% of them are French customers. I do my best with my limited language skills (though admittedly I have to rely on google translate a lot of the time), but I always make an effort to speak in the native language of the customer. Obviously I can't be proficient in that many languages, but in Thailand I find it embarrassing that most EU nationals speak near perfect English, or certainly fluent if not native, often better than people from my home country.

Completely off topic. Some people never miss an opportunity to vent their french bashing. Quite common on this forum.

It's just my experience. I'm not trying to 'bash' anyone. I have a lot of daily communication with French people. Spaniards do it a little also, but not nearly so much. Germans I think are smart in that they will often only speak German to you in Germany, but will switch when elsewhere - except in business when you're the customer in which case getting the communication across is priority however it's done. They're smart like that. If find that Thais try very hard once they get over their shyness of appearing not completely fluent, which nobody expects from anyone in general daily life. Business has more exacting rules.

[Docno]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

Gotta agree with you on that. Would have been way better for "Noy" to have her own business, where her former teacher's buying something.

Oh boy, there're too many Noy's and Lek's and I doubt that somebody would "fall over" by such an incredible event in a mall.

Let's just hope that Noy will have many more "cute victory smiles" in her face in the near future.

Whatever that looks like. Using my respective imagination, I drew a picture converted it onto a different format and here's the result:

Noy's cute victory smile".

Where do you get the idea that this was a big flashy mall? It was a Tesco satellite store no bigger than a 7-eleven. In a small village. In the middle of Amnat Charoen province. With not a single farang in town. These places exist ... but I guess the soi cowboys here wouldn't know that. [because all Isaan girls inevitably end up in the bars they frequent, right?]

Why would the teacher be bowled over? Simple. Because this is not a place where farangs end up, and Noy was expected to live out her life as a farm girl like all the rest in a small village. To the teacher, she was just one more student, not motivated to learn English (because there was no reason to speak it there). But now here she was, fluently speaking English to her farang partner (of 5 years). I think some people at least could see how this might be a surprise to a former teacher in such a place. BTW, Noy does have her own business, a small shop in the village ... there go your assumptions again. Nice try - fail.

[Docno]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

1. Small village. Middle of Amnat Charoen. No farangs there until earlier this year when a farang girl and a filipina were brought into the school on some sort of temporary arrangement (as we understand it). Hadn't seen a farang there in the 5 years before seeing that one girl on her bicycle. [That bowled me over].

2. In her student days, Noy was apparently just one more student sitting at the back of class 'doomed' to living her life out on the farm (which she actually enjoys). She wasn't seen by the teacher as the most likely person to have a life trajectory that would bring her into contact with westerners. Of course, there will be some cynical people (yourself? I don't know), who would assume that all such Isaan farm girls will end up sitting on a foreigner's lap in some bar 'in the big city', but it might surprise you that millions of girls in fact stay behind with their families. How's that for a shocker?

[Berkshire]

Having lived in Japan, I can concur with the OP that most Japanese cannot speak English and do not care to learn.

I will say that I'm constantly impressed with the way many Thais (particularly in customer service) can manage to understand the many different variations of English spoken in Thailand. If you're not a native English speaker, then you can appreciate the different accents of the English, Scots, Aussies, French, Germans, Dutch, Americans, etc., not to mention Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Arabs, etc. who try to communicate in English. Conversational English, is a whole another animal, but many on TV don't appreciate even the effort. Try getting an American in the US to speak a foreign language and you'll hear: "You're in America--speak English!"

[elgenon]

My good friend's (Thai) two daughters whom I have known all their lives are apprehensive about speaking English to me. They are shy about it. I told their mother I wanted to volunteer to teach conversational English in schools. I would go in once a week and only speak English. I had a French teacher whose wife did this and it was great. The girls said they already had a teacher who did this.

I got the impression that the Thai students would be too shy to make use of this opportunity.

[claffey]

I find that most people here try to speak to me in English while I'm trying to speak to them in Thai. Most Thais who I know personally are far more proficient in speaking English than I will ever be in speaking Thai.

No offence, but that's probably only because your Thai sucks, is likely heavily accented and sounds like a small child. If you could speak decent Thai, it would be quite different.

I rarely speak English to anyone in Thailand (except other foreigners) simply because I have no need to. Thais speak poor English and my Thai is fluent, not to mention that being the only official language, it makes sense for a resident to be able to speak it fluently, especially in light of the fact that English is so poorly spoken (and written).

I would recommend improving your Thai - it might make it more likely Thais will choose to speak their language with you.

Well aren't you terrific! It nice of you to humble yourself and type in English.For that, I thank you!!

How did you become fluent in Thai? What methods did you use? Did you pay for classes? Any websites to recommend? I've been living here almost eleven years. My Thai is passable.I would like to become 'fluent' but it takes so long to learn and practice. I have a life so its hard for me to find the time to study.

How long did you study for each day?

Some people try really hard to learn languages but are not successful.Perhaps you could enlighten us and give us some tips? Pronunciation is a huge problem for me. I didn't speak until I was five years old and received speech therapy for many years. Language learning is a skill that is acquired. Some people find it difficult but not for lack of effort...

[huawei]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

• Small village. Middle of Amnat Charoen. No farangs there until earlier this year when a farang girl and a filipina were brought into the school on some sort of temporary arrangement (as we understand it). Hadn't seen a farang there in the 5 years before seeing that one girl on her bicycle. [That bowled me over].

• In her student days, Noy was apparently just one more student sitting at the back of class 'doomed' to living her life out on the farm (which she actually enjoys). She wasn't seen by the teacher as the most likely person to have a life trajectory that would bring her into contact with westerners. Of course, there will be some cynical people (yourself? I don't know), who would assume that all such Isaan farm girls will end up sitting on a foreigner's lap in some bar 'in the big city', but it might surprise you that millions of girls in fact stay behind with their families. How's that for a shocker?

Hyperbole ...it might surprise you that millions stay with there families all over Thailand..farangs aren't a rare alien species that they no nothing about..TV the Internet..through extended families etc..etc..Can't be that isolating if you managed to " rescue" Noi..

As for the business , well, she wouldn't know a balance from a p/l..your paying for it ...at the end of the day another old sponsor of a younger women in issan..

[Docno]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

• Small village. Middle of Amnat Charoen. No farangs there until earlier this year when a farang girl and a filipina were brought into the school on some sort of temporary arrangement (as we understand it). Hadn't seen a farang there in the 5 years before seeing that one girl on her bicycle. [That bowled me over].

• In her student days, Noy was apparently just one more student sitting at the back of class 'doomed' to living her life out on the farm (which she actually enjoys). She wasn't seen by the teacher as the most likely person to have a life trajectory that would bring her into contact with westerners. Of course, there will be some cynical people (yourself? I don't know), who would assume that all such Isaan farm girls will end up sitting on a foreigner's lap in some bar 'in the big city', but it might surprise you that millions of girls in fact stay behind with their families. How's that for a shocker?

Hyperbole ...it might surprise you that millions stay with there families all over Thailand..farangs aren't a rare alien species that they no nothing about..TV the Internet..through extended families etc..etc..Can't be that isolating if you managed to " rescue" Noi..

As for the business , well, she wouldn't know a balance from a p/l..your paying for it ...at the end of the day another old sponsor of a younger women in issan..

First, look up the word, 'hyperbole'. You're clueless from the start. Second, I never suggested that farangs are an alien species; but they're not commonly seen all over Thailand. Third, she is responsible for the shop herself. I'd try to educate you on the fact that not all Isaan girls make their living from a farang or from working in the pubs you frequent, but I know it would be a waste of my time.

[Forrest]

Learning Thai is not easy. English is a crazy language, no doubt, but thia is . . . just strange. Below is my poem about learning Thai just so you know are not alone if you are struggling with the language as I am.

On Learning Thai (Chong Khae, Thailand)

Forty-four consonants with classy names

like snake, rat, and a little boat you row

not to say anything of old geezer which

my Thai wife’s four-year old granddaughter

with Shirley Temple curls says I am.

Thirty-two vowels which orbit the consonants like planets.

They wax and wane and sometimes go into retrograde

So severe they disappear. Most of these make noises

I last made during a physical exam when the rubber-gloved

doctor digitally checked my prostrate: Vowel E-U-U-U-A!

Five different tones, so it’s OK to have

high tones in low places and a funny mix of

four tone markers – one of which is the logo

for the International Red Cross – wait a minute,

five tones but only four markers?. Who invented

this language, Yogi Berra?

There are no capitals, but that’s OK because

there’s no punctuation, either. thaitextexudeslikea

sausagefromamachineinastraightlinesuntilitstopskhrap

I don’t think this farang will ever master Thai.

English may be crazy, but Thai needs another adjective

altogether khrap . . . (the last I think, comes close).

[elgenon]

I find that most people here try to speak to me in English while I'm trying to speak to them in Thai. Most Thais who I know personally are far more proficient in speaking English than I will ever be in speaking Thai.

No offence, but that's probably only because your Thai sucks, is likely heavily accented and sounds like a small child. If you could speak decent Thai, it would be quite different.

I rarely speak English to anyone in Thailand (except other foreigners) simply because I have no need to. Thais speak poor English and my Thai is fluent, not to mention that being the only official language, it makes sense for a resident to be able to speak it fluently, especially in light of the fact that English is so poorly spoken (and written).

I would recommend improving your Thai - it might make it more likely Thais will choose to speak their language with you.

I am curious to know how Thais think about your Thai. Did they hear it as a mature Thai would speak it or as a child would. I now the nuances are difficult. Such has how to talk to a Thai of higher or lower stature. i would think a lot of Thais would appreciate practicing their English as it is the language of business. Being dedicated to learning Thai is great. As an aside, I am shocked at how many people back home think Thais are from Taiwan. 555

[honu]

A girl at work practiced some English by talking to me (a housekeeper), and it was odd to learn she is an English major, nearly graduated, but really couldn't speak English, apparently for lack of verbal practice.

It's unusual to me how good most Thai's knowledge of English is for having studied it in school (the ones I meet doing professional work), and odd the contrast to how little practice speaking they've had. From a background in language study in America you couldn't study and learn a language as written without practicing speaking it in the same courses.

Or maybe it's just hard to compare directly, since I took French and Spanish way back when but I certainly couldn't have communicated effectively with French and Spanish speakers through that. To me the difference was that my knowledge of written French and Spanish from very limited study was also quite limited. If I'd have stuck with either for a four year time-frame I think I'd have been better at both, and Thais are putting a lot more time in starting English study in grade school (starting in grade 1, for the schools my son has been enrolled in here).

[Ace of Pop]

Has no one noticed the new fad is to speak Chinese inThai Hi So schools whilst Chinese regard English as a status thing. As a non English I can say it's the best language to learn

[arfurcrown]

Now if this person is indicative of an English teacher here in Thailand we can fully understand why the average Thai is shy to speak English.

Listen to the narration, read the passage made by the ''teacher.' What a fiasco, no wonder teachers here have so many hoops to jump through and still Thai students struggle with their English.

Published on May 3, 2015
Module is for you tolisten to an nativeEnglish person from England.
It helps you to understand the sounds correctly and with different sentences.This module is the phrasal verb Break.
If you want to have a copy of my C.Ds you can e.mail me on ********@gmail.com. plus i also make videos for other peopleandproofreading as well please listen and let me know with your comments.

Also, note the spelling of ''before'' at the 4.10 mark in the clip. Note at 5.18 passage number 8, the question that ends with a full stop when a question mark should have been used.

Also look at the request made for employment by this character.

http://www.teachingthailand.com/job/...t-kevin-booth/

[Lozza]

I have certainly found English is spoken less and less in the 30 + years I have been coming to Thailand. The main problem appears to be employing non-native speakers who are often unintelligible themselves!

You're not alone with your opinion, the level of English was better 10 + years ago, where many schools had almost zero NES and NNES teachers employed.

That was also the time when some school superiors found out that “teachers” from the Philippines were willing to sign up for 10 K/month. The problem was and still is, that the HoD at many schools don’t even know the difference between a good spoken English and some terribly mispronounced version of Tinglish, or Germish.

In 2005, more and more Filipinos got hired by schools all over the country, because they are cheap labor.

But I'd be very careful to blame the NNES guys only, please go to some schools and you'll find youngish Scottish guys, who're hardly understood by most Americans, then please have a look at some Cockney English speaking teachers, who don't even know if their students understand them.

There's such a variety of people from English speaking countries employed as English teachers, who're definitely very hard to understand, where most American have to ask twice, or thrice what’s being said. So how should Thai students, learners of a second language follow them?

Even some South Londoners are barely understood by Americans, then look at some Australian slang, South African Dutchinglish and so on.

How about some Irishmen? I remember when the first agency found a school director in lower northeast, who signed up with them. After three years teaching at a government school, somebody approached me if I wouldn't be interested to "make" 12 K more/month and I started to work for this agency.

One was an electrician, two others didn’t even finish high school and none of them was a degree holder, one of them was a painter who made his living in the UK through some day by day jobs, avoiding to pay tax.

Almost all of the guys who already worked there were backpackers, the agency had found at places like Khao San road, somewhere in Pattaya and other tourist destinations. All they had to do was to come to their office in Bangkok, sign a contract and they’re sent to schools all over Thailand, without any experience.

Three of them were convicted criminals and it still scares the shit out of me, thinking about one of them being my son’s teacher. One was a killer, another guy got caught after an armed robbery, because they found his fingerprints on the pump gun that was being used.

The students had one hour per week, "taught" by native English speakers, some of them didn't even finish high school.

I remember an Alaskan who's asking me after his first lesson how to spell Wednesday? He spelled it Wdsday, the kids even told him teacher, teacher, noooooooo. Of course did he not listen to the kids and later told me that they’d spell the weekday like that in Alaska.

Yes, many NNES speakers shouldn't be allowed to go into a Thai classroom, but same goes for some NES teachers, who only want to make some money to be able to get drunk every day. Then the usual Monday and Friday sickness, caused by a terrible hangover?

There're Filipinos who "only teach subjects" who can't even have an easy conversation with a person who's good at English. How can somebody teach a subject like science, who's not even able to have a simple conversation in English?

I've got a grade one and a grade two class and also teach them science and math in English. The vocabulary in their textbooks for second grade science is huge, compared to their level of English a very difficult task to teach them.

Plenty of students in the Kingdom get taught by very poor English speakers and the students do not understand the teachers’ mispronounced English. Of course are Thai kids not criticizing their teachers, so they keep quit and follow the “instructions.”

All in all, it’s the school superiors/directors fault and I feel very sorry for these kids. You won't get good teachers when you offer them 15 K a month. There're some brilliant non -native English speakers out there, but they wouldn't sign up for 20 K/month.

To make a long story short. There're many facts why Thais after 12 or more years of "learning English" are so poor in conversational, but also in comprehensive English. Greediness of school directors, who give a damn about the kids' progress in English seems to be everywhere........

Thai English teachers who only write some stuff out of an English book on the board and let the kids copy it, while only speaking Thai in their English lesson.

A colleague of mine just graduated with a Master's in English, but she's usually only speaking Thai with me, because she might think she'd lose face, making a lot of mistakes.Of course was the Thesis not written by her and she's got no clue about her own Thesis, because she didn't create it. There're so many words she doesn't even know their meaning and it's a sad example of cheating.

Cheating the students seems to be the biggest problem, of course did she get a good pay raise, but failed to pass her CEFR test and only scored A 1, which is damn poor. A Master's degree holder who scored A 1 in CEFR? Even a dumb director should start to think what's wrong with it.

She'll be a trainee in a CEFR seminar next month and I already know that she won't learn enough on a weekend to have a B 1, or 2 score, which isn't difficult to achieve. I conducted a CEFR seminar last weekend and there're some high school teachers who scored A 0. God, please help me.

I've got students in grade two who're much better in having a conversation, but this woman is allowed to teach grade six students English?

Then plenty of agency teachers, who do not have a clue how to teach a language, followed by a lot of non-native English speakers with a terrible command in English.

Weird is that it’s more about physical appearance and high school students who “evaluate” their foreign teachers” will always give a good looking and youngish guy a much better evaluation than to a guy who’s really concerned that the students learn English.

If a foreign teacher really takes his/her job serious and gives his students a low grade, the students will finally vote him/her out, while the youngish backpacker, with absolutely zero experience will continue “teaching” at this institution. It might sound weird, but it’s the naked truth

Now please put all of them in a pot, stir them well and the outcome, or end product is the current situation at Thai schools regarding English efficiency.

Go with the flow, or end up in the snow.

The American's are hardly understood by the proper speaking English countries, the southern drawl, loud cringeworthy behaviour, y'all. Their table manners are classless.

American is American language they speak and spell their own way- rarely see people lining up to learn English from them. And certainly wouldn't want to learn how to paragraph a letter as you have.

The Philippine, India, Malaysian, Singapore and many European countries speak and write better English than the Americans and are easily understood.

[Anthony5]

I find that most people here try to speak to me in English while I'm trying to speak to them in Thai. Most Thais who I know personally are far more proficient in speaking English than I will ever be in speaking Thai.

How strange that the perfect Thailand, as nobody else knows it, always exist in the mind of only one and the same poster.

Wait there is second one, called Lostoday.

[gerryBScot]

Learning Thai is not easy. English is a crazy language, no doubt, but thia is . . . just strange. Below is my poem about learning Thai just so you know are not alone if you are struggling with the language as I am.

On Learning Thai (Chong Khae, Thailand)

Forty-four consonants with classy names

like snake, rat, and a little boat you row

not to say anything of old geezer which

my Thai wife’s four-year old granddaughter

with Shirley Temple curls says I am.

Thirty-two vowels which orbit the consonants like planets.

They wax and wane and sometimes go into retrograde

So severe they disappear. Most of these make noises

I last made during a physical exam when the rubber-gloved

doctor digitally checked my prostrate: Vowel E-U-U-U-A!

Five different tones, so it’s OK to have

high tones in low places and a funny mix of

four tone markers – one of which is the logo

for the International Red Cross – wait a minute,

five tones but only four markers?. Who invented

this language, Yogi Berra?

There are no capitals, but that’s OK because

there’s no punctuation, either. thaitextexudeslikea

sausagefromamachineinastraightlinesuntilitstopskhrap

I don’t think this farang will ever master Thai.

English may be crazy, but Thai needs another adjective

altogether khrap . . . (the last I think, comes close).

Hey Forrest I love it. Great work. You touch on a very important point which is often unacknowledged. An understanding of why Thai is difficult to learn should help those of us involved in teaching English to Thai learners: it's the same the other way round. Totally different concepts.

That's why I really like the English textbooks that have been developed for Japanese learners like Let's Go: Japanese is as different conceptually from English as Thai is. Teaching a Thai person English is not the same as a Brit learning French.

[aarontendo]

Average Brit here is too busy flapping his wings on a bar stool to bother getting a college degree. I've yet to meet a a North American teaching sans degree.

Keep pretending that England matters, m8.

[arfurcrown]

aarontendo.

Average Brit here is too busy flapping his wings on a bar stool to bother getting a college degree. I've yet to meet a a North American teaching sans degree.

Keep pretending that England matters, m8.

Now that comment you make does reflect upon the company that you keep.

There are a lot of properly qualified teachers of English and also other subjects too here who come from numerous countries around the world.

[SlyAnimal]

Hey Forrest I love it. Great work. You touch on a very important point which is often unacknowledged. An understanding of why Thai is difficult to learn should help those of us involved in teaching English to Thai learners: it's the same the other way round. Totally different concepts.

That's why I really like the English textbooks that have been developed for Japanese learners like Let's Go: Japanese is as different conceptually from English as Thai is. Teaching a Thai person English is not the same as a Brit learning French.

Thai and English do have a lot in common, structure wise. As both are still subject verb object, although adjectives/adverbs are in reverse order, and although the alphabets are different it's still an alphabet (as opposed to say Chinese). English & Thai also both use classifiers (although Thai uses them in more situations).

Tenses & plurals are often the most difficult thing for Thai students to learn in English as they don't have these in Thai. Well they have tenses, but it's a very simple structure (kinda like using "I will" for all future sentences & "already" for all past tense sentences).

Knowing Thai can definitely help with teaching English, as you can then understand the mistakes which they make and help them by explaining the differences.

I think the education system is to blame for Thai students not being able to speak more English. The languages are similar enough that forming sentences etc shouldn't be a problem, although due to the differences most students would probably make mistakes with their grammar (e.g. Go instead of went, car fast instead of fast car) and forget their 's's on words.

However as the Thai education system primarily focuses on vocabulary, rather than on how to actually use the language, students do actually know a lot of words, but they're unable/not confident enough to put them into coherent sentences. For example, sometimes the teachers at my school ask me to explain things to them like "what's a killjoy", because that's what's in the next lesson from the textbook. So they're teaching words which are very very rarely used, to students who often couldn't even form a full sentence to tell you how they came to school or what they had for lunch.

[bigt3116]

I have certainly found English is spoken less and less in the 30 + years I have been coming to Thailand. The main problem appears to be employing non-native speakers who are often unintelligible themselves!

You're not alone with your opinion, the level of English was better 10 + years ago, where many schools had almost zero NES and NNES teachers employed.

That was also the time when some school superiors found out that “teachers” from the Philippines were willing to sign up for 10 K/month. The problem was and still is, that the HoD at many schools don’t even know the difference between a good spoken English and some terribly mispronounced version of Tinglish, or Germish.

In 2005, more and more Filipinos got hired by schools all over the country, because they are cheap labor.

But I'd be very careful to blame the NNES guys only, please go to some schools and you'll find youngish Scottish guys, who're hardly understood by most Americans, then please have a look at some Cockney English speaking teachers, who don't even know if their students understand them.

There's such a variety of people from English speaking countries employed as English teachers, who're definitely very hard to understand, where most American have to ask twice, or thrice what’s being said. So how should Thai students, learners of a second language follow them?

Even some South Londoners are barely understood by Americans, then look at some Australian slang, South African Dutchinglish and so on.

How about some Irishmen? I remember when the first agency found a school director in lower northeast, who signed up with them. After three years teaching at a government school, somebody approached me if I wouldn't be interested to "make" 12 K more/month and I started to work for this agency.

One was an electrician, two others didn’t even finish high school and none of them was a degree holder, one of them was a painter who made his living in the UK through some day by day jobs, avoiding to pay tax.

Almost all of the guys who already worked there were backpackers, the agency had found at places like Khao San road, somewhere in Pattaya and other tourist destinations. All they had to do was to come to their office in Bangkok, sign a contract and they’re sent to schools all over Thailand, without any experience.

Three of them were convicted criminals and it still scares the shit out of me, thinking about one of them being my son’s teacher. One was a killer, another guy got caught after an armed robbery, because they found his fingerprints on the pump gun that was being used.

The students had one hour per week, "taught" by native English speakers, some of them didn't even finish high school.

I remember an Alaskan who's asking me after his first lesson how to spell Wednesday? He spelled it Wdsday, the kids even told him teacher, teacher, noooooooo. Of course did he not listen to the kids and later told me that they’d spell the weekday like that in Alaska.

Yes, many NNES speakers shouldn't be allowed to go into a Thai classroom, but same goes for some NES teachers, who only want to make some money to be able to get drunk every day. Then the usual Monday and Friday sickness, caused by a terrible hangover?

There're Filipinos who "only teach subjects" who can't even have an easy conversation with a person who's good at English. How can somebody teach a subject like science, who's not even able to have a simple conversation in English?

I've got a grade one and a grade two class and also teach them science and math in English. The vocabulary in their textbooks for second grade science is huge, compared to their level of English a very difficult task to teach them.

Plenty of students in the Kingdom get taught by very poor English speakers and the students do not understand the teachers’ mispronounced English. Of course are Thai kids not criticizing their teachers, so they keep quit and follow the “instructions.”

All in all, it’s the school superiors/directors fault and I feel very sorry for these kids. You won't get good teachers when you offer them 15 K a month. There're some brilliant non -native English speakers out there, but they wouldn't sign up for 20 K/month.

To make a long story short. There're many facts why Thais after 12 or more years of "learning English" are so poor in conversational, but also in comprehensive English. Greediness of school directors, who give a damn about the kids' progress in English seems to be everywhere........

Thai English teachers who only write some stuff out of an English book on the board and let the kids copy it, while only speaking Thai in their English lesson.

A colleague of mine just graduated with a Master's in English, but she's usually only speaking Thai with me, because she might think she'd lose face, making a lot of mistakes.Of course was the Thesis not written by her and she's got no clue about her own Thesis, because she didn't create it. There're so many words she doesn't even know their meaning and it's a sad example of cheating.

Cheating the students seems to be the biggest problem, of course did she get a good pay raise, but failed to pass her CEFR test and only scored A 1, which is damn poor. A Master's degree holder who scored A 1 in CEFR? Even a dumb director should start to think what's wrong with it.

She'll be a trainee in a CEFR seminar next month and I already know that she won't learn enough on a weekend to have a B 1, or 2 score, which isn't difficult to achieve. I conducted a CEFR seminar last weekend and there're some high school teachers who scored A 0. God, please help me.

I've got students in grade two who're much better in having a conversation, but this woman is allowed to teach grade six students English?

Then plenty of agency teachers, who do not have a clue how to teach a language, followed by a lot of non-native English speakers with a terrible command in English.

Weird is that it’s more about physical appearance and high school students who “evaluate” their foreign teachers” will always give a good looking and youngish guy a much better evaluation than to a guy who’s really concerned that the students learn English.

If a foreign teacher really takes his/her job serious and gives his students a low grade, the students will finally vote him/her out, while the youngish backpacker, with absolutely zero experience will continue “teaching” at this institution. It might sound weird, but it’s the naked truth

Now please put all of them in a pot, stir them well and the outcome, or end product is the current situation at Thai schools regarding English efficiency.

Go with the flow, or end up in the snow.

The irony is amazing. :-)

[gerryBScot]

Hey Forrest I love it. Great work. You touch on a very important point which is often unacknowledged. An understanding of why Thai is difficult to learn should help those of us involved in teaching English to Thai learners: it's the same the other way round. Totally different concepts.

That's why I really like the English textbooks that have been developed for Japanese learners like Let's Go: Japanese is as different conceptually from English as Thai is. Teaching a Thai person English is not the same as a Brit learning French.

Thai and English do have a lot in common, structure wise. As both are still subject verb object, although adjectives/adverbs are in reverse order, and although the alphabets are different it's still an alphabet (as opposed to say Chinese). English & Thai also both use classifiers (although Thai uses them in more situations).

Tenses & plurals are often the most difficult thing for Thai students to learn in English as they don't have these in Thai. Well they have tenses, but it's a very simple structure (kinda like using "I will" for all future sentences & "already" for all past tense sentences).

Knowing Thai can definitely help with teaching English, as you can then understand the mistakes which they make and help them by explaining the differences.

I think the education system is to blame for Thai students not being able to speak more English. The languages are similar enough that forming sentences etc shouldn't be a problem, although due to the differences most students would probably make mistakes with their grammar (e.g. Go instead of went, car fast instead of fast car) and forget their 's's on words.

However as the Thai education system primarily focuses on vocabulary, rather than on how to actually use the language, students do actually know a lot of words, but they're unable/not confident enough to put them into coherent sentences. For example, sometimes the teachers at my school ask me to explain things to them like "what's a killjoy", because that's what's in the next lesson from the textbook. So they're teaching words which are very very rarely used, to students who often couldn't even form a full sentence to tell you how they came to school or what they had for lunch.

I am not disagreeing with your general drift except I think you are underestimating the differences : different script, different sounds, tones, punctuation, capitalisation, no spaces between words, auxiliary verbs and that's just for starters before considering tense and the weird and whacky world of questioning formats. You'll be well aware of how Thai kids are not taught how to write Roman letters and so do it in their own way, etc.

What constantly amazes me is no attempt is made to systematically bridge these differences - for instance it really is easy to teach a child how to write properly using Roman letters once they can hold a pencil. I don't understand why they don't start teaching phonics at the earliest opportunity - nothing else that I know of has the same impact on a child's ability to read and connect letters and clusters of letter to sounds; forget the alphabet...

None of this stuff is esoteric with access to it dependent on membership of goat-abusing secret societies or their like - it's all there in the public domain, in books for instance, and there are many 'foreign' teachers here who know this stuff as it has been at the backbone of their own teaching formation..... but the last thing these guys will do is ask for advice because they have an undergraduate and masters degree in English and that confers expertise....you know the deal.

But I do love 'gai yang' and it is now time to head out and have lunch time feast.

[SlyAnimal]

I'd say that most of the Thai kids I teach at my high school write English just as legibly as what kids did at my NZ primary school.

I say legibly as although I could probably write a lot faster than most of the boys, my writing was about as legible as theirs, while the girls here write in a similar style to the girls at my primary school (I.e. Very neat). These days I write a lot more legibly though, as I mainly write on official documents + while teaching, so have lost my "speed font" lol.

(Although I admittedly don't see the kids from the regular program writing except occasionally on the whiteboard).