IMA_FARANG Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Of course it is all a generalization, but I know Philippinos or Philippinas whose English is better than many native born Brits. One of them is a 40 year old Fhillippina woman who works here in this hotel where I live. She is not a teacher, however, but a University trained nurse with a nursing degree. Now, however, she is married to one of the sons of the family who are the owners of this hotel. She takes care of the hotel reservations system and the hotel guests billing accounts.....mainly because she knows the computer billing system better than anyone else in the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aries27 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Hmm, what can I say? A big number of Filipinos have mediocre English (reading is always better than speaking) but when you get the good ones, University grads mostly, they're really good. Filipino language doesn't have gender pronouns hence the he/she confusion, for one. Pronunciation is not 100% but improving, thanks to English TV and movies. But they do get points for better spelling and punctuations than many native English speakers. Maybe having a non-native teacher will be less intimidating, especially for beginners. My own experience in learning Chinese once was that I felt more comfortable talking to Chinese kids with their short sentences and simple words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Partnership of Poverty. no, not really. If Thai would achieve English on a Philippine's level I would be happy. Better that English than no English. And...to teach English you don't need to be a native speaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Philippinos are nearly english native speakers..more than half of their school programs is taught in englishI think the Philippino English teachers would make an excellent contribution to Thailand. They often speak better English than SOME or the expats from native English speaking countries. Have conversations here with UK teachers here in los and depending where they are from....I can hardly understand them. You can hardly understand them because you can't be bothered! By the way Filipino not Philipino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think the Philippino English teachers would make an excellent contribution to Thailand. They often speak better English than SOME or the expats from native English speaking countries.The Filipino English teachers I have encountered here have been devout Christians. Unlike many native speakers, they don't come in with hangovers reeking of booze, don't stink of cigarette smoke, don't have criminal records in their home countries, drug addiction, or serious psychological problems (apart from an irrational belief in an invisible sky wizard), and they haven't expressed an unhealthy sexual interest in pubescent boys and girls.Add to that that they have had the experience of learning English as a second language, plus they're less expensive. Quite frankly, why would anyone hire a native speaker over a Filipino? Wow. That's a broad stroke of the brush.. I take it you are an English teacher here so as to quantify your statements with facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yep spot on. I mean, I wouldn't classify them as native speakers but they generally have a good command of the language. If they had education training (which most of the native teachers here lack) I can't see why this wouldn't work out wonderfully for the teacher and the schools hiring. The first Filipino I worked with in 2005 was really good in spoken and written English. But she had a teacher's license from her country and teaching experience. As already mentioned by another poster, they often have the problem with the gender. Here's an example I've experienced with a Filipino at my former school. I had to see the director, because visitors came to our school and I prepared him for a welcome speech in English. When I left his office, my colleague approached me and was asking me what I did. I said to him that I had to see the director, because we'll have some visitors in a few days. He's asking me: " What she say?" I replied that our director would be male, but he had no idea about the meaning of male. That was the end of the conversation, it wasn't possible to have an easy conversation with him. And he was the best English speaker out of five Filipinos. One of them had to drive to Laos and an English man and I only wanted to know if they have to pay for a visa to get into Laos. I've tried my best, but she didn't understand my question, asking her: Sorry, M..., when you went to Laos, did you have to pay for a visa to get into Laos? Blank starring and a smile. I tried it twice, then the English bloke: " M..., on your visa trip, when you went into Laos, did you pay for a Laos visa, or not? Blank starring. I finally said: " When you go Lao, you buy visa, or you not buy? She answered: No, Filipino not pay for visa, it free. I swear that I'm not making this up and I believe if they'd focus on teachers with a teacher's license from the Philippines, it might work out. Dear Mods, I truly hope that you do not see this post as a racist one, I'm in no way a racist. I can back this up, give you the phone number of the British gentleman who's involved. I have the solution for the problems regarding English education for Thailand, considering that the fresh graduates aren't better in spoken English than the older ones. It would be very easy to make an agreement with English speaking countries. Send those who want to become English teachers to an English speaking country, let them study there for four years, until they graduate. When they come back they’ll be will be excellent in English and won't lose face anymore. How many years are they trying to change the educational system and nothing has changed so far? I really believe that Thai kids' English ten + years ago was better than it is now. I've met many ex-students I had when they’re in grade six, but after six more years “studying English” at high school, they couldn't even answer very easy questions anymore. Finally, I don't think that hiring some "cheap labor" will change anything at Thai schools. They'll have to start at the top first. But how should that work out, having a soldier as the Minister of Education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren84310 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Whilst there are a few good Filipino teachers around, most of them are horrendous. About time the Thai people woke up and realised that they are being farmed off with sub-standards, whilst the powers that be are creaming the system for personal benefit. At the same time some Thais are paying for private education to make up for the poor education their children receive at school as a result of corruption. It makes you wonder if they realise the irony of it all. For example: They could pay 4,000 native speakers 50,000 baht per month for 25 years for around the same amount wasted on the infamous Rice Pledging Scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have a duel citizenship Filo/Aussie GF. Tertiary qualified (psychology/behavioural science) and I'm wondering with the ASEAN changes could she enter Thailand on her filo passport and teach English. She'll be doing a TEFL course before we relocate. We'll be in country in April to visit a visa specialist etc but any info would be appreciated. She can get job right now. Thousands of non-native speakers teach english in Thailand already. In 10 years they will dominate the teaching scene in Thailand. The majority of teacher in my school are non-native speakers. If I happen to quit I'm sure I'd not be replaced with a more expensive native speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEFLKrabi Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Like it or not, like the Filipino accent or not, the main difference will be that the classes will be done 100% in English, not the 10% we get now with 90% done in Thai. Surely that has to be an improvement. Having an accent does not make them any worse as language speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrogue Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 No native English speaker ever learned "Grammar" prior to conversation and I believe that is something that needs to be considered when teaching anyone who has no knowledge of any non-native language way too much emphasis is given to studying grammar when what is required is a comprehensive understanding of how to speak an language and grammar can be added later. Let's be honest how many of those who have English as a native language actually know even the basic grammar of that language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Partnership of Poverty. no, not really. If Thai would achieve English on a Philippine's level I would be happy. Better that English than no English. And...to teach English you don't need to be a native speaker That's true up to a point, but it's better to have native speakers teach in higher grades when high stakes exams are coming up. Many don't know the nuances of the language or the use of idioms, etc. The main problem I've found with some Filipino teachers is their lack of classroom management. So it doesn't really matter how well they know the language or subject if the kids are running around the classroom doing what they want. Having said that, we do have some who I would not replace, as they do a good job with the students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfurcrown Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Irishrogue,. You are right on target. In fact Micheal Swan the English Grammar expert states that if you learn the grammar you often have problems learning the language one needs to learn the language before the grammar. The results: teaching grammar instead of English Where grammar is given too much priority the result is predictable and well known. ‘Course books’ become little more than grammar courses. Students don’t learn English: they learn grammar, at the expense of other things that matter as much or more. They know the main rules, can pass tests, and may have the illusion that they know the language well. However, when it comes to using the language in practice they discover that they lack vital elements, typically vocabulary and fluency: they can recite irregular verbs but can’t sustain a conversation. http://www.mikeswan.co.uk/elt-applied-linguistics/seven-bad-reasons.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukecan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Skilled and qualified native speakers should have nothing to worry about, I don't think 1st or even 2nd rate schools will hire filipinos to teach English over farangs. Most schools use the "white teacher" thing as leverage to boost enrollment, so opting to hire a filipino to reduce costs might backfire. The parents will prefer the school who has white teachers. But some smart ass schools might hire 2-3 or so farang teachers for the image and have the rest of them as filipinos lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukecan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 No native English speaker ever learned "Grammar" prior to conversation and I believe that is something that needs to be considered when teaching anyone who has no knowledge of any non-native language way too much emphasis is given to studying grammar when what is required is a comprehensive understanding of how to speak an language and grammar can be added later. Let's be honest how many of those who have English as a native language actually know even the basic grammar of that language? Heck I'm Turkish and even I don't know the grammar rules. I went to an international school where we had farang teachers, needless to say I benefited greatly. I have friends who mastered the grammar rules, but when it comes to holding a conversation they're worse than a 3 year old native speaker lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Well , at least they wont be working for beer money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasset Tak Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm Swedish so I'm speaking as a non NES. I do teach English BUT that is not my main subject as I'm teaching agricultural related subjects in English. How many of you are ready to work at 5 different school? - I have Filipino friends that do that, 1 day in 1 school. I would rather have a Filipino as a teacher than an Australian, New Zealander, Scot, Cockney, Irish and so on. - I meet 2 OZs last week, I could understand about 60% of what they said, they are working as teachers. - I went to one primary school to help, the children did not know the words boy and girl but they knew LAD and LASSIE! They had had a Scottish teacher there the year before. A Filipino is grateful to have a job while many NES have the attitude that the school should be grateful to have them as teachers. I have never seen a Filipino come to teach in shorts, flipflops and a tank top but I have seen more than one american going to work dressed like that! For me it's about working so I can live here. If I would just be after the money then I would go back home working for 10x what I make here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarontendo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Whilst there are a few good Filipino teachers around, most of them are horrendous. About time the Thai people woke up and realised that they are being farmed off with sub-standards, whilst the powers that be are creaming the system for personal benefit. At the same time some Thais are paying for private education to make up for the poor education their children receive at school as a result of corruption. It makes you wonder if they realise the irony of it all. For example: They could pay 4,000 native speakers 50,000 baht per month for 25 years for around the same amount wasted on the infamous Rice Pledging Scheme. Yeah, or using that money to hire 12,000 qualified teachers from the Philippines. See what I did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGV Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Filipinos English on the cheap Result low standards so nothing changes They just don't have the vocabulary and teaching style is much like Thai - rote learning Lack creativity so this idea is more about face - no substance at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I've been to Philippines a few times and never had problems with their English abilities. I also like their accent (and EVERYONE speaks with an accent). Recall staying in Vietnam, got to be friends with desk manager. He said to me one time "I think I speak English pretty well, but when Mr. X speaks, I can't understand him". I told him not to worry, I couldn't understand him either (Mr. X spoke Cockney). I'm an American, btw. Recall BBC report stating now more people speak English as second language then those who speak it as first. Only to be expected that Taglish, Japlish, Singlish etc would evolve. Philippines part of ASEAN, so perhaps some advantage in learning their style of English. UK and USA not part of ASEAN, last time I looked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 For the most part we are not talking about Top Tier Education... This discussion involves area's of less privilege, where schools have minimal budget and are unable to employ NES, thus the alternative to employ teachers from the Philippines' at half the cost is a viable alternative. English Teachers from the Philippines fit the bill perfectly. While their degree of competency is being discussed on this forum I suspect too many people are concentrating on a perfect world, we have to be realistic in what can be afforded and provided. Teachers from the Philippines can cover the basics for those who would otherwise have nothing. Would I want my Son learning English in this manner? Of course not. However, for those without a reasonable alternative a huge gap can be filled. Any improvement is improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOC Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So we will have Thai students speaking English with a Thai accent on top of Filipino mispronunciations? What fun! ...on top of Filipino mispronunciations and a lack of a subject in their sentences? What fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brer Fox Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I suspect those additional teachers would not be needed if the English teachers currently employed spent more hours in the classroom and less hours on excursions and other unrelated activities. For reference and confirmation of Thai education policy stupidity read the other story today about the PLAN TO SLASH SCHOOL HOURS. I have good reason the believe that imported English teachers such as those from the Philippines have to pay some sort of "employment" fee to the school which ends up you know where. That might be the real driver for bringing in all those teachers and also they can do the work of the existing teachers who then become higher paid supervisors and so bloat the education bureaucracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Way overly critical, fellas. Assuming the filipino teachers have a license from there, which I'm sure they will, I don't see any reason why this won't work. They'll work for a cheaper wage than the native speakers. I see a lot of butthurt from people who may see their jobs in danger. People act as if government schools out in the provinces are all able to hire a white teacher. They speak American English with a very strong accent. Most of the ones that have taught my kids are nice enough but struggle to hold a conversation with a native English speaker. In comparison to British, American, Australian, New Zealand, South African teachers they are very weak in their English skills. The plus side, they are very cheap and are usually paid less than Thais too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Philippinos are nearly english native speakers..more than half of their school programs is taught in englishI think the Philippino English teachers would make an excellent contribution to Thailand. They often speak better English than SOME or the expats from native English speaking countries.Have conversations here with UK teachers here in los and depending where they are from....I can hardly understand them. You can hardly understand them because you can't be bothered! By the way Filipino not Philipino Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Way overly critical, fellas. Assuming the filipino teachers have a license from there, which I'm sure they will, I don't see any reason why this won't work. They'll work for a cheaper wage than the native speakers. I see a lot of butthurt from people who may see their jobs in danger. People act as if government schools out in the provinces are all able to hire a white teacher. No butt hurt here at all. Thailand is short over 12,000 English teachers. The cultural attitude they will not be able to overcome is racial. The schools want white skin, not pretty brown. I know a native speaker, American, with a degree in Education and graduated with honors from UCLA, a very good school. He was of Filipino descent, and they offered him 15,000 a month to start. He laughed and told them to stuff it because three native speakers at the school had not even graduated high school and started at 25,000. Yes, people do act as if the provincial schools are all able to hire a white teacher, but those schools can't because....the directors steal half the budget every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think the Philippino English teachers would make an excellent contribution to Thailand. They often speak better English than SOME or the expats from native English speaking countries. The Filipino English teachers I have encountered here have been devout Christians. Unlike many native speakers, they don't come in with hangovers reeking of booze, don't stink of cigarette smoke, don't have criminal records in their home countries, drug addiction, or serious psychological problems (apart from an irrational belief in an invisible sky wizard), and they haven't expressed an unhealthy sexual interest in pubescent boys and girls. Add to that that they have had the experience of learning English as a second language, plus they're less expensive. Quite frankly, why would anyone hire a native speaker over a Filipino? Ignoring your hyperbolic stereotyping attempts. Your last sentence. How about the ability to teach the actual subject correctly? Would that be a good reason do you think? I'm fed up reading correspondence from Filipino teachers with incorrect grammar and/or spelling; and struggling to have a conversation with them unless the sentences are very short, simple and I break big words into small syllables. A few are really good teachers, but they are the 20%. 80% are not. But they are cheap, accept what they're told, do as they're told and so more acceptable to the school administrators here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatproblem Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 And they want non native English speakers ,don't want to show the Thais up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalansanitwong Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Obviously theyre doing this because qualified farang teachers arent going to work in LOS for a pittance unless they have personnal reasons for being here. The private school my kids attended used to have about 4 farang teachers. They all left after being cheated by the school owner and now there are none. Most qualified teachers will go to Japan and Korea. Not Nth Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Kubasa Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The bigger need is for 200,000 students who really want and will make a genuine effort to learn English. I have two who couldn't care less, one, still in schooklthe other, ( 2nd. in her class ), toiling in a factory at 9,000 minus deductions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have been taught English by non-native speakers only. Have no problems using it in business and personal communication. Speaking the language and being able to teach it is not quite the same thing. Reading posts from many native speakers on this forum I would not trust them with the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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