Thai visa run crackdown: Latest update from Thai/Cambo border

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a reply.

[tomacht8]

In kanxhanaburi they do not let in travelers with valid tourist visas?

Why?

And at other boarderpoints no problem?

That is strange.

[khwaibah]

There is an unofficial border crossing point near Ban Kruat in Southern Buriram. They have been promising for years to make it official, but TIT so nothing gets done.

For the past couple of years there has been a market on the Cambodian side which locals could visit to purchase cheap fags and booze and such. There is also a casino under construction.

Now foreigners are no longer allowed to visit this market although local Thais still can.

First of all, I'm pretty sure it's been announced that that border checkpoint will be upgraded to international status by the end of the year. This announcement was made just 1-2 weeks ago and will go ahead along with up to 6 other crossings between Thailand and Cambodia. Secondly, the upgrading of a border checkpoint by definition, must have the permission and co-operation of the other country. Ever thought it might actually be Cambodia dragging it's feet all this time?

Thirdly, since when have foreigners ever officially been allowed to use a locals only checkpoint? If you know the chief of immigration or have a good relationship with someone in power, sure, no problem. But all bets are off on the Cambodian side since Thai law has no jurisdiction over there. Last year, I was permitted to cross briefly into Koh Kong Cambodia (well, just the border area) to check on the whereabouts of my friend, twice. I told the officers what I was doing and gave them my passport as security. No problems. So maybe it just depends how you talk to people and/or who you know. Nor was that the first time either. Few years ago was allowed to cross to the Lao border at an unofficial checkpoint.

However, the Cambodian side really would rather have you enter their country properly than go shopping for discounted booze and cigarettes, that you can only bring back in, in limited quantities anyway.

You can always visit the market in question by entering through a proper checkpoint, or wait 3-4 months until the one you are talking about is actually upgraded.

Now quit your moaning...how many people are going to be affected by what is a non-issue based merely on hearsay and your own opinion?

Just you, probably. Not likely any other foreigners have ever even been to that market or care about visiting it.

The local border crossing in Buriram is controlled by the army and not immigration. You leave your passport on the Thai side with the army. There has been at least half a dozen announcements in the media rags of this crossing opening over the past 2 years and nothing has come of it. Farangs have been busted left and right for smuggling to many cigarettes by Thai Customs at this crossing, 50,000 baht fines.

[Jip99]

There is an unofficial border crossing point near Ban Kruat in Southern Buriram. They have been promising for years to make it official, but TIT so nothing gets done.

For the past couple of years there has been a market on the Cambodian side which locals could visit to purchase cheap fags and booze and such. There is also a casino under construction.

Now foreigners are no longer allowed to visit this market although local Thais still can.

First of all, I'm pretty sure it's been announced that that border checkpoint will be upgraded to international status by the end of the year. This announcement was made just 1-2 weeks ago and will go ahead along with up to 6 other crossings between Thailand and Cambodia. Secondly, the upgrading of a border checkpoint by definition, must have the permission and co-operation of the other country. Ever thought it might actually be Cambodia dragging it's feet all this time?

Thirdly, since when have foreigners ever officially been allowed to use a locals only checkpoint? If you know the chief of immigration or have a good relationship with someone in power, sure, no problem. But all bets are off on the Cambodian side since Thai law has no jurisdiction over there. Last year, I was permitted to cross briefly into Koh Kong Cambodia (well, just the border area) to check on the whereabouts of my friend, twice. I told the officers what I was doing and gave them my passport as security. No problems. So maybe it just depends how you talk to people and/or who you know. Nor was that the first time either. Few years ago was allowed to cross to the Lao border at an unofficial checkpoint.

However, the Cambodian side really would rather have you enter their country properly than go shopping for discounted booze and cigarettes, that you can only bring back in, in limited quantities anyway.

You can always visit the market in question by entering through a proper checkpoint, or wait 3-4 months until the one you are talking about is actually upgraded.

Now quit your moaning...how many people are going to be affected by what is a non-issue based merely on hearsay and your own opinion?

Just you, probably. Not likely any other foreigners have ever even been to that market or care about visiting it.

The local border crossing in Buriram is controlled by the army and not immigration. You leave your passport on the Thai side with the army. There has been at least half a dozen announcements in the media rags of this crossing opening over the past 2 years and nothing has come of it. Farangs have been busted left and right for smuggling to many cigarettes by Thai Customs at this crossing, 50,000 baht fines.

Smuggling is slightly harsh in some of the cases where immigration rules have not been broken!

I was surprised to learn that Farangs are no longer allowed to visit the border market.

[Richard Hall]

....by which you apparently mean Thai "laws" (LOL) according to every single IO's own personal interpretation of them. To the simple I suppose that does sound simple.

Good luck with your smugness. One day you just might find the bell tolling for you...

I do not believe in luck neither in good nor in bad.

My history in Thailand:

Arrived on Feb. 16, 2000 by tourist visa because the Thai Embassy in Berlin refused a Non-Immigrant B since my paperwork was not sufficient at that time. My intention was to live and work in the Kingdom legally. For good. No return.

Upon completing the setting up of "my" company I had my tourist visa exchanged into a non-immigrant visa B at Bangkok Immigration Main Office and a work permt granted in April 2000. Indeed, not a piece of cake and many obstacles had to be dealt with back then.

Upon acting always in accordance to the Thai law, yes it acutally exists, I always extended my staying permit timely in Bangkok and for the first time I left the Kingdom eight years after my arrival. I still remember the Immigration Officer back then when checking my passport. "Oh, you haven't left the country for a long time" when I applied for a re-entry permit.

Because of some black sheeps abusing the law things became gradually more difficult to extend a staying permit based on business and eventually I decided about seven years ago to switch my reason for staying in Thailand to "Thai wife" since I have got married in 2002 already.

My highest priorities when deciding leaving for Thailand for good was learning the language and always act strictly in accordance to the law altough my "Thai troubleshooter" back then told me right from the beginning that sticking to the law in Thailand at 100% is impossible because when trying to do so one will eventually end up in prison. 80% is the utmost for everyone to achieve and she was right.

Why is that so? Well, Thai law is smart enough to always leave options. Differenct from the Premium World that gets more and more enslaved by the own laws while Thailand is rather driven by pragmatism. Anything and nothing is possible, it can be but not have to while the laws of the Premium World usually offer no options at all. Oviously, due to seemingly lax laws in Thailand people appear to get tempted into believing there are no laws at all in a "Banana State". This is wrong and in the worst case in can be even fatal. Unwritten rules are quite often more important than the written ones particularly because as already mentioned the written laws often offer options rather than enslaving the country by its own laws.

This has nothing to do with lawlessness but rather pragmatism. To understand this one must think Thai and not Farang because this is Thailand. When in doubt be better overly cautious and prepare yourself for the worst case rather than just naively enjoy the not really existing lightness of being. Once you have gotten into the fire things are very difficult to amend.

For a foreigner in the Kingdom of most upper importance it is to strictly stick to the written Thai laws, particularly immigration laws, and be aware of the unwritten rules. Fulfill your duties first and with that you may obtain rights. Don't claim rights that you don't have if not fullfilling your duties first and you do not depend on luck that does not really exist.

Respect your host country or most likely bear the consequenses. Get your priorities right. No, they must not be staying in the Kingdom as long as you can by any means but rather your stay mus be actually justified. Ask youself for the reason for staying in the Kingdom longterm and then check the written laws whether this is reason enough. If not but you try to do it nevertheless you are bending the law and turn into a victim to anyone who does not like your face.

Eventually, you will always be the master of your destiny rather than depending on sole luck. When in "Rome" just do what "the Romans" want you to do and you obtain liberty and rights. You respect them, they respect you. No need for bribery and they do not even ask you for it but rather offer you a helping hand instead. My own personal experience here in the Kingdom upon living and working here for fifteen and a half years and leaving the country for five days only in all that time. A "visa run" has never come into my mind from the very first day when arriving because frankly said a visa run is not in accordance to the written law. Hence, a visa run is always bending the law and has always been even when not strictly enforced in the past leading to more and more abuse by everyone involved. Bribe and get bribed, the said worst enemy of the Kingdom.

One may ask himself or herself whether the "chaos theory" is applicable to Thailand. By my own experience I may conculde it can be because there are clear unwritten rules in "the chaos". Being aware of and obeying them will most likely result in a lightness of being which, however, does not mean you should follow that path in a laissez-faire manner because in this case it may turn into the opposite because you are not prepared for the unexpected.

As a rule of thumb as a foreigner in the Kingdom. Know your duties better than you rights.

[hawker9000]

....by which you apparently mean Thai "laws" (LOL) according to every single IO's own personal interpretation of them. To the simple I suppose that does sound simple.

Good luck with your smugness. One day you just might find the bell tolling for you...

I do not believe in luck neither in good nor in bad.

My history in Thailand:

Arrived on Feb. 16, 2000 by tourist visa because the Thai Embassy in Berlin refused a Non-Immigrant B since my paperwork was not sufficient at that time. My intention was to live and work in the Kingdom legally. For good. No return.

Upon completing the setting up of "my" company I had my tourist visa exchanged into a non-immigrant visa B at Bangkok Immigration Main Office and a work permt granted in April 2000. Indeed, not a piece of cake and many obstacles had to be dealt with back then.

Upon acting always in accordance to the Thai law, yes it acutally exists, I always extended my staying permit timely in Bangkok and for the first time I left the Kingdom eight years after my arrival. I still remember the Immigration Officer back then when checking my passport. "Oh, you haven't left the country for a long time" when I applied for a re-entry permit.

Because of some black sheeps abusing the law things became gradually more difficult to extend a staying permit based on business and eventually I decided about seven years ago to switch my reason for staying in Thailand to "Thai wife" since I have got married in 2002 already.

My highest priorities when deciding leaving for Thailand for good was learning the language and always act strictly in accordance to the law altough my "Thai troubleshooter" back then told me right from the beginning that sticking to the law in Thailand at 100% is impossible because when trying to do so one will eventually end up in prison. 80% is the utmost for everyone to achieve and she was right.

Why is that so? Well, Thai law is smart enough to always leave options. Differenct from the Premium World that gets more and more enslaved by the own laws while Thailand is rather driven by pragmatism. Anything and nothing is possible, it can be but not have to while the laws of the Premium World usually offer no options at all. Oviously, due to seemingly lax laws in Thailand people appear to get tempted into believing there are no laws at all in a "Banana State". This is wrong and in the worst case in can be even fatal. Unwritten rules are quite often more important than the written ones particularly because as already mentioned the written laws often offer options rather than enslaving the country by its own laws.

This has nothing to do with lawlessness but rather pragmatism. To understand this one must think Thai and not Farang because this is Thailand. When in doubt be better overly cautious and prepare yourself for the worst case rather than just naively enjoy the not really existing lightness of being. Once you have gotten into the fire things are very difficult to amend.

For a foreigner in the Kingdom of most upper importance it is to strictly stick to the written Thai laws, particularly immigration laws, and be aware of the unwritten rules. Fulfill your duties first and with that you may obtain rights. Don't claim rights that you don't have if not fullfilling your duties first and you do not depend on luck that does not really exist.

Respect your host country or most likely bear the consequenses. Get your priorities right. No, they must not be staying in the Kingdom as long as you can by any means but rather your stay mus be actually justified. Ask youself for the reason for staying in the Kingdom longterm and then check the written laws whether this is reason enough. If not but you try to do it nevertheless you are bending the law and turn into a victim to anyone who does not like your face.

Eventually, you will always be the master of your destiny rather than depending on sole luck. When in "Rome" just do what "the Romans" want you to do and you obtain liberty and rights. You respect them, they respect you. No need for bribery and they do not even ask you for it but rather offer you a helping hand instead. My own personal experience here in the Kingdom upon living and working here for fifteen and a half years and leaving the country for five days only in all that time. A "visa run" has never come into my mind from the very first day when arriving because frankly said a visa run is not in accordance to the written law. Hence, a visa run is always bending the law and has always been even when not strictly enforced in the past leading to more and more abuse by everyone involved. Bribe and get bribed, the said worst enemy of the Kingdom.

One may ask himself or herself whether the "chaos theory" is applicable to Thailand. By my own experience I may conculde it can be because there are clear unwritten rules in "the chaos". Being aware of and obeying them will most likely result in a lightness of being which, however, does not mean you should follow that path in a laissez-faire manner because in this case it may turn into the opposite because you are not prepared for the unexpected.

As a rule of thumb as a foreigner in the Kingdom. Know your duties better than you rights.

All that rationalization notwithstanding, we do apparently agree when it comes to the need to "know the unwritten" rules in Thailand. But we live in a world where people of means need written rules, called laws, to form successful and lasting business relationships, to conduct their affairs, and to "progress" as a nation. If you want to defend Thailand's being dominated by these "unwritten rules", that's fine, and Thailand's right to muddle along burdened by that social disability can not be challenged by the global community trying to insist upon its "rights". But then Thailand can not claim its place in the modern world, will be ridiculed every time it invokes these "unwritten rules" against foreigners, and will ultimately suffer ostracism, prejudice, discrimination, mockery, and economic injury. And, much as it might like to, and even foolishly attempt to, THAT right of free speech cannot be challenged by Thailand! IOW, the "Thainess" thing WILL all "come around". The country deserves the ridicule, the disdain, and the avoidance that it is itself courting. These "unwritten rules" of yours are very real and the perfect example.

[Toknarok]

There is an unofficial border crossing point near Ban Kruat in Southern Buriram. They have been promising for years to make it official, but TIT so nothing gets done.

For the past couple of years there has been a market on the Cambodian side which locals could visit to purchase cheap fags and booze and such. There is also a casino under construction.

Now foreigners are no longer allowed to visit this market although local Thais still can.

First of all, I'm pretty sure it's been announced that that border checkpoint will be upgraded to international status by the end of the year. This announcement was made just 1-2 weeks ago and will go ahead along with up to 6 other crossings between Thailand and Cambodia. Secondly, the upgrading of a border checkpoint by definition, must have the permission and co-operation of the other country. Ever thought it might actually be Cambodia dragging it's feet all this time?

Thirdly, since when have foreigners ever officially been allowed to use a locals only checkpoint? If you know the chief of immigration or have a good relationship with someone in power, sure, no problem. But all bets are off on the Cambodian side since Thai law has no jurisdiction over there. Last year, I was permitted to cross briefly into Koh Kong Cambodia (well, just the border area) to check on the whereabouts of my friend, twice. I told the officers what I was doing and gave them my passport as security. No problems. So maybe it just depends how you talk to people and/or who you know. Nor was that the first time either. Few years ago was allowed to cross to the Lao border at an unofficial checkpoint.

However, the Cambodian side really would rather have you enter their country properly than go shopping for discounted booze and cigarettes, that you can only bring back in, in limited quantities anyway.

You can always visit the market in question by entering through a proper checkpoint, or wait 3-4 months until the one you are talking about is actually upgraded.

Now quit your moaning...how many people are going to be affected by what is a non-issue based merely on hearsay and your own opinion?

Just you, probably. Not likely any other foreigners have ever even been to that market or care about visiting it.

This 'unofficial' crossing point was open at least ten years ago when I first crossed over to visit the market on the Cambodian side. I and many other farangs would often cross over, there was never any problem with the Cambodian officials. It was shut for about 4 years as it was suspected that yaba was being imported into Thailand by locals. It was re-opened about 2 years ago.

There was never any problem for farangs going over until the latest crackdown after the Bangkok bombing. Now foreigners are not allowed to cross.

The Immigration and Customs offices onthe Cambodian side were built years ago. It's the Thais who have been dragging their feet. They have been promising a proper entry/exit post for years. I will believe it when I see it, they have however tarmaced the road leading to the border from the main Ban Kruat/ Prasat Road.

No Tom I'm not moaning and it's not hearsay, I and many farangs have been visiting this market for years.

[Richard Hall]

....by which you apparently mean Thai "laws" (LOL) according to every single IO's own personal interpretation of them. To the simple I suppose that does sound simple.

Good luck with your smugness. One day you just might find the bell tolling for you...

I do not believe in luck neither in good nor in bad.

My history in Thailand:

Arrived on Feb. 16, 2000 by tourist visa because the Thai Embassy in Berlin refused a Non-Immigrant B since my paperwork was not sufficient at that time. My intention was to live and work in the Kingdom legally. For good. No return.

Upon completing the setting up of "my" company I had my tourist visa exchanged into a non-immigrant visa B at Bangkok Immigration Main Office and a work permt granted in April 2000. Indeed, not a piece of cake and many obstacles had to be dealt with back then.

Upon acting always in accordance to the Thai law, yes it acutally exists, I always extended my staying permit timely in Bangkok and for the first time I left the Kingdom eight years after my arrival. I still remember the Immigration Officer back then when checking my passport. "Oh, you haven't left the country for a long time" when I applied for a re-entry permit.

Because of some black sheeps abusing the law things became gradually more difficult to extend a staying permit based on business and eventually I decided about seven years ago to switch my reason for staying in Thailand to "Thai wife" since I have got married in 2002 already.

My highest priorities when deciding leaving for Thailand for good was learning the language and always act strictly in accordance to the law altough my "Thai troubleshooter" back then told me right from the beginning that sticking to the law in Thailand at 100% is impossible because when trying to do so one will eventually end up in prison. 80% is the utmost for everyone to achieve and she was right.

Why is that so? Well, Thai law is smart enough to always leave options. Differenct from the Premium World that gets more and more enslaved by the own laws while Thailand is rather driven by pragmatism. Anything and nothing is possible, it can be but not have to while the laws of the Premium World usually offer no options at all. Oviously, due to seemingly lax laws in Thailand people appear to get tempted into believing there are no laws at all in a "Banana State". This is wrong and in the worst case in can be even fatal. Unwritten rules are quite often more important than the written ones particularly because as already mentioned the written laws often offer options rather than enslaving the country by its own laws.

This has nothing to do with lawlessness but rather pragmatism. To understand this one must think Thai and not Farang because this is Thailand. When in doubt be better overly cautious and prepare yourself for the worst case rather than just naively enjoy the not really existing lightness of being. Once you have gotten into the fire things are very difficult to amend.

For a foreigner in the Kingdom of most upper importance it is to strictly stick to the written Thai laws, particularly immigration laws, and be aware of the unwritten rules. Fulfill your duties first and with that you may obtain rights. Don't claim rights that you don't have if not fullfilling your duties first and you do not depend on luck that does not really exist.

Respect your host country or most likely bear the consequenses. Get your priorities right. No, they must not be staying in the Kingdom as long as you can by any means but rather your stay mus be actually justified. Ask youself for the reason for staying in the Kingdom longterm and then check the written laws whether this is reason enough. If not but you try to do it nevertheless you are bending the law and turn into a victim to anyone who does not like your face.

Eventually, you will always be the master of your destiny rather than depending on sole luck. When in "Rome" just do what "the Romans" want you to do and you obtain liberty and rights. You respect them, they respect you. No need for bribery and they do not even ask you for it but rather offer you a helping hand instead. My own personal experience here in the Kingdom upon living and working here for fifteen and a half years and leaving the country for five days only in all that time. A "visa run" has never come into my mind from the very first day when arriving because frankly said a visa run is not in accordance to the written law. Hence, a visa run is always bending the law and has always been even when not strictly enforced in the past leading to more and more abuse by everyone involved. Bribe and get bribed, the said worst enemy of the Kingdom.

One may ask himself or herself whether the "chaos theory" is applicable to Thailand. By my own experience I may conculde it can be because there are clear unwritten rules in "the chaos". Being aware of and obeying them will most likely result in a lightness of being which, however, does not mean you should follow that path in a laissez-faire manner because in this case it may turn into the opposite because you are not prepared for the unexpected.

As a rule of thumb as a foreigner in the Kingdom. Know your duties better than you rights.

All that rationalization notwithstanding, we do apparently agree when it comes to the need to "know the unwritten" rules in Thailand. But we live in a world where people of means need written rules, called laws, to form successful and lasting business relationships, to conduct their affairs, and to "progress" as a nation. If you want to defend Thailand's being dominated by these "unwritten rules", that's fine, and Thailand's right to muddle along burdened by that social disability can not be challenged by the global community trying to insist upon its "rights". But then Thailand can not claim its place in the modern world, will be ridiculed every time it invokes these "unwritten rules" against foreigners, and will ultimately suffer ostracism, prejudice, discrimination, mockery, and economic injury. And, much as it might like to, and even foolishly attempt to, THAT right of free speech cannot be challenged by Thailand! IOW, the "Thainess" thing WILL all "come around". The country deserves the ridicule, the disdain, and the avoidance that it is itself courting. These "unwritten rules" of yours are very real and the perfect example.

This is Thailand. Hate it, love it or take it as it is. I personally go with the third option.

Thailand is my homeland of choice while I used to bitch about Germany pretty much the same way when living there like foreigner do about Thailand and this eventually let me decide to leave and look for greener pactures more to my liking.

Ironically, it appears at the very moment that the future of "chaotic" Thailand looks much brighter than that of sophisticated Germany and the question arises what country seems to be more rediculous in its acting?

Germany has eventually enslaved itself absolutely by its own strict laws and will need to employ drastic means to get out of the mess now which may even result in greater messes. Humanity has nothing to do with sensibility as reality has shown.

Is "Lung Tu" even smarter than the most powerful woman in the modern world? At least, if he is not just shopping for submarines in China.

[hawker9000]

This is Thailand. Hate it, love it or take it as it is. I personally go with the third option.

Thailand is my homeland of choice while I used to bitch about Germany pretty much the same way when living there like foreigner do about Thailand and this eventually let me decide to leave and look for greener pactures more to my liking.

Ironically, it appears at the very moment that the future of "chaotic" Thailand looks much brighter than that of sophisticated Germany and the question arises what country seems to be more rediculous in its acting?

Germany has eventually enslaved itself absolutely by its own strict laws and will need to employ drastic means to get out of the mess now which may even result in greater messes. Humanity has nothing to do with sensibility as reality has shown.

Is "Lung Tu" even smarter than the most powerful woman in the modern world? At least, if he is not just shopping for submarines in China.

One does hear these comparisons from time-to-time here. ...from expats who've invested themselves - usually rather heavily - in their adopted residence the way people invest themselves in political candidates & parties, in financial enterprises, in personal relationships, in expensive cars, etc., etc., etc. 'Some to the extent even that their bridges have been burned and they can't go back even if they should make up their minds to. It's hard to be impressed with the objectivity and impartiality of such accounts. Obviously you left Germany for reasons which seemed important to you; obviously coming to Thailand seemed like a good idea; obviously it's not a choice you made lightly; probably something which required a lot of personal effort & expense; possibly a big risk; probably not something you could easily or cheaply undo.

So, take it as it is, then. I think it's interesting that among the choices you named (hate it, love it, or take it as it is) you chose #3 instead of #2. Maybe, as a result of your investment of self & assets, you essentially have little choice but to take it as it is...

[Richard Hall]

Well, I quit my well paid job after 20 years to go to Thailand and arrived here with about 100kgs and about THB 300.000 because selling everything, having a divorce running in Germany and steadily flying back and forth in 1999 between Germany and Thailand cost me a lot.

So I made my experiences the hard way coming from a social state. But it was my own personal choice. I always hated it to return from Bangkok to the golden cage.

Yes, heaps of sacrifices to make my wish come true to live and work in Bangkok. I clearly paid my price but was willing to do so. No shortcuts. It was hard but possible and things supposed to be impossible as predicted by some farang turned eventually out to be possible. Not by financial investments, I never had the money, but personal investments. Eventually, this resulted in being well accepted in a country supposed to hate farang and abuse them as rumor has it. I respected the culture and the laws and managed to get well integrated. A couple of years ago an officer at Chaeng Wattana asked me why I not just apply for citzenship instead of going through the annual hassle of staying permit extensions. I told her that it was very difficult and that one required a certain amount of points to get the application accepted at all and after that the decision will take two years or even longer. The success rate is only about 25%. Simply said, even after more than 15 years I am not ready for that because I do not want to risk failure.

She answered, "well, you surely already have the necessary at an 80% level". "Not got enough", I replied, "I will give it a try, when I have reached 101%". It was quite a sanuk situation. Thai people love sanuk even in dry bureaucratic matters. Even when I personally pay my taxes every month there is sanuk in the tax office of our district. Being the only farang among heaps of Thais, KNOWING the language fluenty and like to tease around (khon arom dee) can make things very easy for a foreigner in Thailand because sanuk makes the job joyful for everyone involved. The Thai way. Smile, don't bitch or at least when you bitch do it with a smile. This is an important investment one always has to make. Control your emotions, you are in Asia and be a pleasant guy even in situations you don't feel like it. Land of smiles holds still true although often doubted by many farang.

Hate somthing is an extreme, so it is loving something. Extremes result in counter extremes and eventually disappointments so just take it as it is. The middleway. The middleway is compromise. Middleway is pragmatism. Pragmatism is Thailand. Hate it or love it or take it as it is. I go for the last mentioned one for obvious reasons because this is Thailand. Although it is the home of my choice I do not see it with pink shaded glasses. Thailand ain't paradise but it just is as it is. Sufficient at least for me. Phor phiang as His Majesty the KIng wisely advised. Appreciate what you have and not what you could have.

Thailand has its flaws but the country allowed me to make my wish come true. Therefore, why nagging and discrediting it? Well, I paid my price and still have but I consider it an investment to be worth it. Like anyone else I have to play by the (Thai) rules. If one can't and/or is not willing to do so it will be to the best interest of everyone involved to look for greener pastures as I once did. I found mine in the Kingdom.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'd like to comment on the view that people should appreciate what they have and not what they could have - but I won't!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Well, I quit my well paid job after 20 years to go to Thailand and arrived here with about 100kgs and about THB 300.000 because selling everything, having a divorce running in Germany and steadily flying back and forth in 1999 between Germany and Thailand cost me a lot.

So I made my experiences the hard way coming from a social state. But it was my own personal choice. I always hated it to return from Bangkok to the golden cage.

Yes, heaps of sacrifices to make my wish come true to live and work in Bangkok. I clearly paid my price but was willing to do so. No shortcuts. It was hard but possible and things supposed to be impossible as predicted by some farang turned eventually out to be possible. Not by financial investments, I never had the money, but personal investments. Eventually, this resulted in being well accepted in a country supposed to hate farang and abuse them as rumor has it. I respected the culture and the laws and managed to get well integrated. A couple of years ago an officer at Chaeng Wattana asked me why I not just apply for citzenship instead of going through the annual hassle of staying permit extensions. I told her that it was very difficult and that one required a certain amount of points to get the application accepted at all and after that the decision will take two years or even longer. The success rate is only about 25%. Simply said, even after more than 15 years I am not ready for that because I do not want to risk failure.

She answered, "well, you surely already have the necessary at an 80% level". "Not got enough", I replied, "I will give it a try, when I have reached 101%". It was quite a sanuk situation. Thai people love sanuk even in dry bureaucratic matters. Even when I personally pay my taxes every month there is sanuk in the tax office of our district. Being the only farang among heaps of Thais, KNOWING the language fluenty and like to tease around (khon arom dee) can make things very easy for a foreigner in Thailand because sanuk makes the job joyful for everyone involved. The Thai way. Smile, don't bitch or at least when you bitch do it with a smile. This is an important investment one always has to make. Control your emotions, you are in Asia and be a pleasant guy even in situations you don't feel like it. Land of smiles holds still true although often doubted by many farang.

Hate somthing is an extreme, so it is loving something. Extremes result in counter extremes and eventually disappointments so just take it as it is. The middleway. The middleway is compromise. Middleway is pragmatism. Pragmatism is Thailand. Hate it or love it or take it as it is. I go for the last mentioned one for obvious reasons because this is Thailand. Although it is the home of my choice I do not see it with pink shaded glasses. Thailand ain't paradise but it just is as it is. Sufficient at least for me. Phor phiang as His Majesty the KIng wisely advised. Appreciate what you have and not what you could have.

Thailand has its flaws but the country allowed me to make my wish come true. Therefore, why nagging and discrediting it? Well, I paid my price and still have but I consider it an investment to be worth it. Like anyone else I have to play by the (Thai) rules. If one can't and/or is not willing to do so it will be to the best interest of everyone involved to look for greener pastures as I once did. I found mine in the Kingdom.

Beautiful. I really hope it's true.

[hawker9000]

Well, I quit my well paid job after 20 years to go to Thailand and arrived here with about 100kgs and about THB 300.000 because selling everything, having a divorce running in Germany and steadily flying back and forth in 1999 between Germany and Thailand cost me a lot.

So I made my experiences the hard way coming from a social state. But it was my own personal choice. I always hated it to return from Bangkok to the golden cage.

Yes, heaps of sacrifices to make my wish come true to live and work in Bangkok. I clearly paid my price but was willing to do so. No shortcuts. It was hard but possible and things supposed to be impossible as predicted by some farang turned eventually out to be possible. Not by financial investments, I never had the money, but personal investments. Eventually, this resulted in being well accepted in a country supposed to hate farang and abuse them as rumor has it. I respected the culture and the laws and managed to get well integrated. A couple of years ago an officer at Chaeng Wattana asked me why I not just apply for citzenship instead of going through the annual hassle of staying permit extensions. I told her that it was very difficult and that one required a certain amount of points to get the application accepted at all and after that the decision will take two years or even longer. The success rate is only about 25%. Simply said, even after more than 15 years I am not ready for that because I do not want to risk failure.

She answered, "well, you surely already have the necessary at an 80% level". "Not got enough", I replied, "I will give it a try, when I have reached 101%". It was quite a sanuk situation. Thai people love sanuk even in dry bureaucratic matters. Even when I personally pay my taxes every month there is sanuk in the tax office of our district. Being the only farang among heaps of Thais, KNOWING the language fluenty and like to tease around (khon arom dee) can make things very easy for a foreigner in Thailand because sanuk makes the job joyful for everyone involved. The Thai way. Smile, don't bitch or at least when you bitch do it with a smile. This is an important investment one always has to make. Control your emotions, you are in Asia and be a pleasant guy even in situations you don't feel like it. Land of smiles holds still true although often doubted by many farang.

Hate somthing is an extreme, so it is loving something. Extremes result in counter extremes and eventually disappointments so just take it as it is. The middleway. The middleway is compromise. Middleway is pragmatism. Pragmatism is Thailand. Hate it or love it or take it as it is. I go for the last mentioned one for obvious reasons because this is Thailand. Although it is the home of my choice I do not see it with pink shaded glasses. Thailand ain't paradise but it just is as it is. Sufficient at least for me. Phor phiang as His Majesty the KIng wisely advised. Appreciate what you have and not what you could have.

Thailand has its flaws but the country allowed me to make my wish come true. Therefore, why nagging and discrediting it? Well, I paid my price and still have but I consider it an investment to be worth it. Like anyone else I have to play by the (Thai) rules. If one can't and/or is not willing to do so it will be to the best interest of everyone involved to look for greener pastures as I once did. I found mine in the Kingdom.

"Therefore, why nagging and discrediting it?"

Because, quite obviously, not everyone experiences the same sublime level of satisfaction as you have, and seem inclined to predict you always will. Therefore, being self-righteous about it and whining about why everyone can't be more like you, is not only short-sighted and dismissive of what others experience and attach value to, it unreasonably assumes that because someone else posts something critical, their overall opinion of the country is therefore also negative. This is down to not being able to make an argument on its merits, but resorting instead to trying to attack & discredit the person you're unable to carry on a discussion with, in this case with some vague assertion that they're not perhaps "adapting", or perhaps not choosing to adapt, as well as you keep reminding us that you have.

By all means, share what's worked for you, but don't you think you can maybe do it without preaching & sermonizing about it? ... and most of all without taking cheap shots at others who might happen to have criticisms?

[Richard Hall]

Okay, since "sermons" are not appreciated. Conclusion:

Nothing is for free and bitching gets you nowhere. Particularly not as a foreigner in Thailand. 'Nuff said.

[Usernames]

I have been on a visa with year long extensions since I've been here. Also with a work permit. I believe in following the rules and the law. The 30 day visa run, however, has been and still is within the law. Things NEED to be consistent. Immigration law and policy change shouldn't be made on a whim.

[Richard Hall]

A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge.

According to the law entry can be refused for example if there is not sufficient evidence about means to support oneself during the stay. Generally as per the law allowing or refusing entry lies in the sole discretion of immigration at the border checkpoint and has always been.

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

[hawker9000]

A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge.

According to the law entry can be refused for example if there is not sufficient evidence about means to support oneself during the stay. Generally as per the law allowing or refusing entry lies in the sole discretion of immigration at the border checkpoint and has always been.

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

"A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge."

That's true of ALL visitation by ALL foreigners EVERYWHERE. It's called national sovereignty. Of COURSE any foreigner's entry can be refused. 'Not necessary to read a mind-numbing tribute to bureaucracy to know that. Is it really necessary to repeat it over & over & over & over & over & over & over again?

So, a country can conduct its immigration processes with consistency, predictability, and courtesy, OR it can do so petulantly, capriciously, arbitrarily, and in a manner that angers some would-be visitors and leaves others wondering what they should expect. This discussion is certainly NOT about anyone's "rights", but rather about how a presumably enlightened, fair-minded, professionally trained and managed government department conducts its affairs and treats foreigners, and how foreigners view their treatment. If you insist on making this about "rights", well then, someone who is unhappy with the way he's treated DOES have a right to share and discuss his experience with others, and that's all that's really happening here...

[lkv]

Richard Hall, I for one don't like arbitrary things happening at the border. I do agree with everything else, at the end of the day it's every country's choice what decisions they make in regards to immigration. I just hope that we will be able to get a clear picture so that we can make educated decisions. Because that's what's missing here, clarity.

[nullx8]

In case of the Schengen States law offers ways to object decisions by the officers but even in case a visa has been granted entry can still be refused by the border

If the circumstances did not change between issuing the visa and the border crossing, the holder of a Schengen Visa has the Right to enter.

Thats why the Embassies are very careful in issue them in the first place.

But yes if the Immigration raise suspicion they can stop you from entering temporary.

[GroveHillWanderer]

If the circumstances did not change between issuing the visa and the border crossing, the holder of a Schengen Visa has the Right to enter.

Thats why the Embassies are very careful in issue them in the first place.

But yes if the Immigration raise suspicion they can stop you from entering temporary.

I think "Right to enter" is putting it a little too strongly. The very last part of the Schengen visa application form states quite clearly that having a visa does not guarantee you entry. It states as follows:

I have been informed that possession of a visa is only one of the prerequisites for entry into the European territory of the Member States. The mere fact that a visa has been granted to me does not mean that I will be entitled to compensation if [...] I am [...] refused entry. The prerequisites for entry will be checked again on entry into the European territory of the Member States.

[londonthai]

yesterday in a crossing at Prum my friend on a double visa was asked to show a flight ticket back to europe and proof of financial means. The next person in the que had the same discussion.

both were allowed to enter, with a warning, that's the last entry.

my friend had a new pass (6 months old) and 3 entry stamps

[hawker9000]

yesterday in a crossing at Prum my friend on a double visa was asked to show a flight ticket back to europe and proof of financial means. The next person in the que had the same discussion.

both were allowed to enter, with a warning, that's the last entry.

my friend had a new pass (6 months old) and 3 entry stamps

I'm presuming you can just have edocs on your phone to show this, or am I presuming too much? Probably varies by location, day-of-the-week, what was for lunch, mood-of-the-IO, etc., anyway...

[Ace of Pop]

All these nonsense comments when everyone knows that it is the repeated in/out "tourists" they want to crack down on.

You mean Teachers then.

[BuckBee]

A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge.

According to the law entry can be refused for example if there is not sufficient evidence about means to support oneself during the stay. Generally as per the law allowing or refusing entry lies in the sole discretion of immigration at the border checkpoint and has always been.

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

"A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge."

That's true of ALL visitation by ALL foreigners EVERYWHERE. It's called national sovereignty. Of COURSE any foreigner's entry can be refused. 'Not necessary to read a mind-numbing tribute to bureaucracy to know that. Is it really necessary to repeat it over & over & over & over & over & over & over again?

So, a country can conduct its immigration processes with consistency, predictability, and courtesy, OR it can do so petulantly, capriciously, arbitrarily, and in a manner that angers some would-be visitors and leaves others wondering what they should expect. This discussion is certainly NOT about anyone's "rights", but rather about how a presumably enlightened, fair-minded, professionally trained and managed government department conducts its affairs and treats foreigners, and how foreigners view their treatment. If you insist on making this about "rights", well then, someone who is unhappy with the way he's treated DOES have a right to share and discuss his experience with others, and that's all that's really happening here...

spot on ...

[brewsterbudgen]

All these nonsense comments when everyone knows that it is the repeated in/out "tourists" they want to crack down on.

You mean Teachers then.

Teachers will have Extensions of stay or non-imm Bs so aren't required to do out-in border runs ☺

[DeaconJohn]

A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge.

According to the law entry can be refused for example if there is not sufficient evidence about means to support oneself during the stay. Generally as per the law allowing or refusing entry lies in the sole discretion of immigration at the border checkpoint and has always been.

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

"A visa exempted stay in the Kingdom for some nationalities is not a right but a priviledge."

That's true of ALL visitation by ALL foreigners EVERYWHERE. It's called national sovereignty. Of COURSE any foreigner's entry can be refused. 'Not necessary to read a mind-numbing tribute to bureaucracy to know that. Is it really necessary to repeat it over & over & over & over & over & over & over again?

So, a country can conduct its immigration processes with consistency, predictability, and courtesy, OR it can do so petulantly, capriciously, arbitrarily, and in a manner that angers some would-be visitors and leaves others wondering what they should expect. This discussion is certainly NOT about anyone's "rights", but rather about how a presumably enlightened, fair-minded, professionally trained and managed government department conducts its affairs and treats foreigners, and how foreigners view their treatment. If you insist on making this about "rights", well then, someone who is unhappy with the way he's treated DOES have a right to share and discuss his experience with others, and that's all that's really happening here...

spot on ...

Spot on indeed.

That sums up the situation very well.

Thanks for that insightful post.

[CLW]

Yesterday at immigration I looked on the tourist visa extension form of the guy sitting next to me.

Arrived here in April from Manila, living in Pratunam, Cameroon nationality.

Certainly a genuine tourist.

But the best were his reasons for the extension:

- travel to more places in Thailand

- learn more about Thai culture

- see some temple

[emoji23]

Made my day [emoji41]

[hawker9000]

Yesterday at immigration I looked on the tourist visa extension form of the guy sitting next to me.

Arrived here in April from Manila, living in Pratunam, Cameroon nationality.

Certainly a genuine tourist.

But the best were his reasons for the extension:

- travel to more places in Thailand

- learn more about Thai culture

- see some temple

[emoji23]

Made my day [emoji41]

You seem easily entertained. From the info you provided, he'd have to have been on a triple-entry tourist visa (perfectly legal), having obtained extensions on the first two legs (also legal), with at least brief re-entries after the first two legs (so actually two subsequent "arrivals" from somewhere), and now seeking an extension o. n the 3rd leg of the visa (still legal). What the heck is he supposed to put down, "I'm just enjoying my long vacation here"? If the presumption is always going go be that anyone & everyone staying for 9 months can't be legitimate, then why for heaven's sake even make TETVs (formerly) and now METVs, AND extensions, even AVAILABLE?!

The question, being asked of a tourist visa (or tv extension) applicant, is a consumately stupid question, and invites simple-minded, plain vanilla answers. 'Makes much more sense where other kinds of visas are involved though, which is probably why it appears on the form I suppose.

[CLW]

He's misusing Tourist visa. Everyone with a bit of human sense knows he's working here or providing some kind of service.

But of course it's legal because the system gives you these certain opportunities.

I would call it loopholes.

Try that in any European country or the US...

End of discussion.

That's my very personal opinion.

[jaywalker]

There seems to be some confusion what a tourist is particularly when it comes to Thailand.

Obviously, a tourist travels around for sightseeing and/or pleasure and within 30 or even 60 days you can surely see and enjoy a lot of Thailand. If 30 days are not enough there is the possibility to extend the permisson of stay but certainly only on reasonable grounds or apply for a tourist visa prior to arrival.

If crossing the border a tourist is supposed to travel with his or her luggage rather than leaving it at a hotel since he or she is on tour and usually tour means continuous travelling.

Well, sometimes people go on shortime trips for example to visit surrounding attractions such as for example the crocodile farm when staying in BKK. When leaving the country, however, particularly upon staying there for several weeks already one would suppose that the tour is continued at the country of destination and hence the travel planning is already kind of figured out before even going on tour.

In any case, the reason for staying in a country must be obvious. There is no such thing as longtime tourist because in that case we are not talking a tourist anymore but rather an expatriate and a proper permission of stay is required.

It is a quandary.

Let's say a German (or British or whatever) guy is on a visit to San Diego & decides to hop down to Tijuana for an afternoon of whatever.

Same as an American on a visit to Koh Chang deciding to pop over to Koh Kong for a day trip (which I used to do quite often)..... Glad I got that out of my system, but it was harmless.

Koh Kong is a cool little town though, if you have a sense of adventure.