Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2

[mamborobert]

Hiding the perceived problem (G4T) without a significant improvement in the service level at Immi solves nothing.

I liked using G4T and have stated same before, being closer and quick they were very convenient for me.

Now that they are not there (hopefully only for a little while) if there is no significant improvement in service people will still feel compelled to used agents but now from across town, increasing the time taken. Less walk in clients for G4T means more walk in and longer waiting times for those that now go straight to Immi. Retirement visas are a fraction of what goes on here so an extra few cards being handed out may help some people but still inconvenience more that no longer have G4T however questionable, available.

Do people now want the other agents/sponsors curtailed that have "close relations" with Immi?

Is there going to be a significant, immediate and durable improvement in service at Immi simply because G4T are off the table?

Without such a demonstrable change I cannot see how this is in any way an improvement. It is almost cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

[fang37]

Regarding queuing, is their special provision for the disabled?

If so, what?

[stephenterry]

Hiding the perceived problem (G4T) without a significant improvement in the service level at Immi solves nothing.

I liked using G4T and have stated same before, being closer and quick they were very convenient for me.

Now that they are not there (hopefully only for a little while) if there is no significant improvement in service people will still feel compelled to used agents but now from across town, increasing the time taken. Less walk in clients for G4T means more walk in and longer waiting times for those that now go straight to Immi. Retirement visas are a fraction of what goes on here so an extra few cards being handed out may help some people but still inconvenience more that no longer have G4T however questionable, available.

Do people now want the other agents/sponsors curtailed that have "close relations" with Immi?

Is there going to be a significant, immediate and durable improvement in service at Immi simply because G4T are off the table?

Without such a demonstrable change I cannot see how this is in any way an improvement. It is almost cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

While I agree that without an improvement in service (or even an attempt to install a satisfactory standard of service), it seems pointless in removing G4T from the equation. However, as I have been at pains to point out many times to the point of causing nausea, if other Thai IMM offices CAN provide a good 'free' service (Pattaya is a shining example and a credit) to those who choose to wait for a few hours, so should CNX - and they should be pressurised to do so. I would hope that BKK will now push the right buttons to ensure that 'normal' service is resumed.

[NancyL]

My first visit to Promenada for retirement extension .. I will not name the agent I used....see why later in this report

.

The agent had arranged for an afternoon appointment at 2 PM.

Took me some time to find the Immigration departments. There was about 100-150 people milling about.

I was surprised that the office was larger then I had expected,noticed that it seemed well signed for each requirement,although the Tannoy system was not good .

Looked into the 'notorious' G4 office,they seemed busy with perhaps 1 dozen people in there.

At my appointed time my agent took me to the 'retirement desk where my papers were scrutinised...all ok

My agent then handed money to the immigration guy....now I was not partricularly inspecting this transaction,but it appeared to me that more then the 1900 baht was handed over.It seemed like there were 3 x1000 baht notes,but I could well be mistaken.

To conclude the interview my papers were handed to another guy who also took my photograph.

I was pleased with this experience.My agent did what was needed.but the delay in getting my passport back was annoying.and I dont see why the person who'S job it is,could not be present

I could see that given time, the Promenada Immigration set-up could be acceptable to most.

Incidentaly I wandered into Rimping afterwards and found Rabbit !! Not seen that anywhere else and hav'nt had a rabbit stew for ages.

If you also requested a re-entry permit, then that would explain the "extra" money that was handed to the Immigration officer.

I agree that it's annoying and just plain bad business practice that that no one is authorized to approve retirement extensions at the Prom. office, thus everyone has to wait for someone "in charge" to come from the other office or for the paperwork to be taken to the office on the other side of town for approval.

[NancyL]

Regarding queuing, is their special provision for the disabled?

If so, what?

This is one area where Imm. Prom has the potential to really outshine the old office. There are wheelchairs available to borrow from the mall at the Rim Ping loading entrance near Imm. Just call the mall security number posted by the wheelchairs and a guard comes in a few short minutes to unchain one and give it to you. You can enter Imm. thru the mall now and avoid the stupid little steps that you'd encounter if you used Imm's exterior entrance.

As for early morning queuing. Well, that's going to be difficult for someone who is handicapped. You'd really have to bring an able-bodied person with you to wait in queue to get a ticket and then organize the wheelchair after the office opens.

But, it's W-A-Y better than the old office. At least there are wheelchairs on offer, a way to get into the office in a wheelchair, a place for someone in a wheelchair to wait and toilets for a handicap person to use. I've brought someone in a wheelchair into Imm. Prom twice. It was actually a pleasant experience for her. We enjoyed breakfast at Rim Ping afterwards because she knew there were good toilet facilities and then we did some shopping. At the old office, the best I could do for someone in a wheelchair was to come out in a vehicle and hope we could find parking at the office, leave them in the vehicle and convince the Imm. officer to come see the person in the vehicle. Use of a toilet, let alone enjoying a meal or shopping was out of the question, of course.

[fang37]

Thank you, Nancy.

Priority queuing?

[NancyL]

"Sparkles' letter" I looked through the on-line BKK Post but was unable to find the letter. Is there a chance of it being published here in the forum as well? Or might someone provide a link? Regards to all.

Do google search with four words -- the name of the newspaper in question and the name of the author, Mike Parker, and click on the first link provided.

[NancyL]

Thank you, Nancy.

Priority queuing?

If it's for a medical extensions, yes. But for a retirement extension no, but they might take pity on someone.

Remember there is no supervisor at Imm. Prom. authorized to approve ret. extension applications, so you'll have to wait around for your passport to be returned anyway.

[fang37]

It seems that I will need to take lessons suggesting that I am in severe pain.

Anyone you know?

[placnx]

Regarding queuing, is their special provision for the disabled?

If so, what?

This is one area where Imm. Prom has the potential to really outshine the old office. There are wheelchairs available to borrow from the mall at the Rim Ping loading entrance near Imm. Just call the mall security number posted by the wheelchairs and a guard comes in a few short minutes to unchain one and give it to you. You can enter Imm. thru the mall now and avoid the stupid little steps that you'd encounter if you used Imm's exterior entrance.

As for early morning queuing. Well, that's going to be difficult for someone who is handicapped. You'd really have to bring an able-bodied person with you to wait in queue to get a ticket and then organize the wheelchair after the office opens.

But, it's W-A-Y better than the old office. At least there are wheelchairs on offer, a way to get into the office in a wheelchair, a place for someone in a wheelchair to wait and toilets for a handicap person to use. I've brought someone in a wheelchair into Imm. Prom twice. It was actually a pleasant experience for her. We enjoyed breakfast at Rim Ping afterwards because she knew there were good toilet facilities and then we did some shopping. At the old office, the best I could do for someone in a wheelchair was to come out in a vehicle and hope we could find parking at the office, leave them in the vehicle and convince the Imm. officer to come see the person in the vehicle. Use of a toilet, let alone enjoying a meal or shopping was out of the question, of course.

So does this imply that one's friend cannot go with the documents in early morning to get the queue number for a retirement extension? Or would it be necessary to go with a power of attorney?

[tpthai2]

"Sparkles' letter" I looked through the on-line BKK Post but was unable to find the letter. Is there a chance of it being published here in the forum as well? Or might someone provide a link? Regards to all.

Do google search with four words -- the name of the newspaper in question and the name of the author, Mike Parker, and click on the first link provided.

Thanks, got it.

[HullyGully]

We should be able to attend CNX Immigration anytime during normal office hours and expect to seen in a reasonable period of time, whether its for 90 day reporting, retirement extension etc.

Also in the event the I/O was exceptionally busy that day you attend, you should be given an appointment for the next day

Other I/M throughout Thailand do not have the issues CNX people have.

These 4am queue should be a thing of the past

I/M have all the statistics on how many people are process each day

If I/O CNX want to provide a service they could, right now they are not prepared to provide the right level of service, and do not care

Otherwise these issues we talk about would be fixed

[slapout]

Guess you could try the consumer complaint/ protest number , I do not have it but its posted for complaints for inaction, etc many have been complaining about. I understand there is a number for complaints about police, as immigration are part of the BIB group

you might get a listen from them.

[HenryB]

If G4 is closed for good the other Agents will charge more G4 cheap and easier to get too.

The more agents the cheaper they will be use.

[MESmith]

I called G4T Nov 17 for info on extension of stay. Was told to arrive by 11:30 and get PP back about 1:30. I am not getting in line at 5:30am for retirement ext and since no more online Q G4T for me. Arrived 11:10 Nov 18 at 1:30 Imm. had a meeting. Signature authority delayed. Picture inside Imm and PP returned 3:30, good for another year. When I arrived I also asked Imm if they any slots for ext, of course not. Of note G4T wanted a signed copy of every used PP page. Hope online Q comes back, 3000baht for what amounts to a Q number.

Did you go to the G4T office next to the copy shop at Imm. Prom? on 18 Nov?

It's very odd. I was at Imm. Prom this morning, 19 Nov and the G4T office next to Imm. Prom is dark, with all the office equipment, signs, fixtures, everything -- removed. Just some furniture still there.

I asked at the copy shop "where is G4T?" They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about. Switched to Thai. "Visa agent next door. G4T. Closed today. Where are they now?" Answer was "don't know" with big round eyes and look of fear from all three employees in the room.

I asked the same question at the Information desk outside Imm. Prom. Two of the three college students were genuinely clueless, with no fear. The third said "they moved". When I asked "where?" she suggested I should go inside and ask the Immigration Officers.

I returned home and just called the mobile phone number of "Best" one of the English speaking agents with G4T who had been eager to help my husband with a visa extension a few weeks ago. The phone was answered "Hello". I asked if this is G4T and the phone was handed to someone else. I could hear noise in the background that sounded like the Prom. Imm. office. The conversation with the second person went something like:

Me: Is this G4T visa agency?

Lady: Why do you want to know?

Me: Well, your office moved and I want to know where to find it

Lady: Who told you it moved?

Me: Students at information desk in front of Immigration office. So, where is the new office?

Lady: Who wants to know?

Me: My name is Nancy

Lady: Someone will call you back in 10 minutes

Yeah, sure.

Perhaps Sparkles' letter getting published yesterday in the Bangkok paper that we can't quote had an immediate effect.

It's a shame you weren't inside Prom Imm Office when you made the call to "G4T". Might have been interesting to observe who was on their phone

[Sparkles]

"Sparkles' letter" I looked through the on-line BKK Post but was unable to find the letter. Is there a chance of it being published here in the forum as well? Or might someone provide a link? Regards to all.

Do google search with four words -- the name of the newspaper in question and the name of the author, Mike Parker, and click on the first link provided.

Is there a reward ?????? Seriously the more that write to newspapers ,complain to Consuls,Abassadors the more hope of reform.

I don't go along with corruption and what is virtually blackmail to use an Agent especially one next door.

Its a personal decision, you either go along with the staus quo and line pockets or fight for some decency and respect .

I was surprised the BP published my letter with no changes they are prone to be very careful in publishing something that might not be true.

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Keep up the good fight people.

[connda]

"Sparkles' letter" I looked through the on-line BKK Post but was unable to find the letter. Is there a chance of it being published here in the forum as well? Or might someone provide a link? Regards to all.

Do google search with four words -- the name of the newspaper in question and the name of the author, Mike Parker, and click on the first link provided.

Is there a reward ?????? Seriously the more that write to newspapers ,complain to Consuls,Abassadors the more hope of reform.

I don't go along with corruption and what is virtually blackmail to use an Agent especially one next door.

Its a personal decision, you either go along with the staus quo and line pockets or fight for some decency and respect .

I was surprised the BP published my letter with no changes they are prone to be very careful in publishing something that might not be true.

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Keep up the good fight people.

Mikes OP, "Expat Visa Woes", is located in the November 18th edition of the Bangkok Post's 'Postbag'.

(I don't believe giving instructions on how to search Google for the article is against TV Forum Policy. If it is, then MOD, feel free to delete or edit this post. I've posted no link to the Bangkok Post)

Ways to view Mikes OP:

1. Google: "Bangkok Post" "Expat Visa Woes" <just copy and paste all the words and the quote marks>
2. Find the link to "Scams All Around"
3. Look for Mike's article

Please note that you can add your input!!!

There is a section in the "Postbag" under all the letters where you can rate the articles with a "Thumbs Up". There is also a comment by a reader named Renaissance which can also be rated with a "Thumbs Up". There is no need to log in, the "Thumbs Up" rating is an anonymous mouse click. Site visits to this page are also compiled. The more visits, the higher the rating and public exposure.

I suggest that everyone who is concerned with the Immigration issues discussed in this forum find the Bangkok Post Postbag OP by Mike and give a "Thumbs Up" to both the article and Renaissance's comment, or make your own comments. I think Mike's public OP has "Let The Cat Out Of The Bag". It's now public record beyond Thai Visa. This is especially significant considering NancyL's post #378 (See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/861438-immigration-promenada-one-stop-service-v2/?p=10095265).

Kudos to Sparkles for having the backbone to pen the OP. I applaud you!!! And kudos to NancyL and others for their continued documentation of the Immigration issues as active observers at the Promenade.

Those of us who are concerned should all take their lead and start doing our part to help bring these issues to the light of day. Observation, continued 'on the ground' documentation via TV, penning OPs to newspapers, and making this a discussion point at CEC meetings. We should expect the same service as all other immigration offices provide to their Expat communities: nothing more and nothing less, i.e., 'same day service, especially for annual visa extensions' without having to show up at 4am in the morning or hire an agent.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[connda]

If G4 is closed for good the other Agents will charge more G4 cheap and easier to get too.

The more agents the cheaper they will be use.

We shouldn't have to use agents at all. We used to have a functioning Online Queue system. When the plug was pulled on the Online Queue system, the only option to bypass the 4am in the morning wait was to hire an agent to do the waiting for you.

I personally have been doing my own visa extension for the past 5 years and I don't need an agent's help. I've well versed in putting together all the proper documentation required by CM Immigration. The only reason I need an agent now is to get past having to stand in line at Zero Dark Thirty, and then having to wait all day for my passport to by processed and signed.

If they still had the Online Queue system and adequate staffing, I wouldn't have to bother with hiring an agent.

As far as prices go, the market competition should dictate the price of services if it's a 'free market'. There should not be very much variation in the price of services between individual agents, and if you check the prices of the agents that are recommended by TV members, their really isn't much variation between all the various agents.

[MESmith]

If G4 is closed for good the other Agents will charge more G4 cheap and easier to get too.

The more agents the cheaper they will be use.

We shouldn't have to use agents at all. We used to have a functioning Online Queue system. When the plug was pulled on the Online Queue system, the only option to bypass the 4am in the morning wait was to hire an agent to do the waiting for you.

I personally have been doing my own visa extension for the past 5 years and I don't need an agent's help. I've well versed in putting together all the proper documentation required by CM Immigration. The only reason I need an agent now is to get past having to stand in line at Zero Dark Thirty, and then having to wait all day for my passport to by processed and signed.

If they still had the Online Queue system and adequate staffing, I wouldn't have to bother with hiring an agent.

As far as prices go, the market competition should dictate the price of services if it's a 'free market'. There should not be very much variation in the price of services between individual agents, and if you check the prices of the agents that are recommended by TV members, their really isn't much variation between all the various agents.

On line queue may be broke, but there's nothing to stop them giving appointments over the phone or to folk visiting i/o during office hours & making an appointment.

[cyberfarang]

Is there anyone reading these posts that use immigration services in other areas? The pros and and cons?

[Sparkles]

Is there anyone reading these posts that use immigration services in other areas? The pros and and cons?

Well you could check other forums ie Phuket ,Pattaya etc but feed back I get from former colleagues and friends now living in Bangkok,Hua Hin ,Pattaya and Phuket have

no issue with using Immigation to comply with the law and certainly not queuing in the middle of the night with a torch, thermos and a prayer..

Living here in CM you have no option but to use the Chiang Mai Immgration office unless you are into border runs.

[Trujillo]

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Ha! That's rich. Sorry, but you put way too much stock in newspapers. It's not like the movies.

As a journalist in Asia for many years, and newspapers for most of that time, I can tell you that NO vetting goes on with letters to the editor. In fact, there is supposed to be a policy whereby you can sign your letter anything you want but you must also include your real name and contact number where you can be reached to verify that it is actually you writing the letter. NO ONE ever does this; there's just no time for that. And letters aren't important enough to spend valuable resources tracking down if the letter is a hoax or not.

Believe me, no copy editor has the time or interest to follow up on a letter (They are barely read anyway before going in). They are filler on the op-ed page, must like briefs are on the international section.

My guess is also that the head of immigration (all of immigration) in Bangkok does not read the English newspapers (although he might on occasion), and instead reads the Thai papers. Even if this one letter was brought to his attention (for some reason) I am sure he'd just grunt ("uhh...") and that would be the end of that.

I know everyone thinks this letter was some sort of toe in the door, but it's already forgotten if even noticed.

[NancyL]

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Ha! That's rich. Sorry, but you put way too much stock in newspapers. It's not like the movies.

As a journalist in Asia for many years, and newspapers for most of that time, I can tell you that NO vetting goes on with letters to the editor. In fact, there is supposed to be a policy whereby you can sign your letter anything you want but you must also include your real name and contact number where you can be reached to verify that it is actually you writing the letter. NO ONE ever does this; there's just no time for that. And letters aren't important enough to spend valuable resources tracking down if the letter is a hoax or not.

Believe me, no copy editor has the time or interest to follow up on a letter (They are barely read anyway before going in). They are filler on the op-ed page, must like briefs are on the international section.

My guess is also that the head of immigration (all of immigration) in Bangkok does not read the English newspapers (although he might on occasion), and instead reads the Thai papers. Even if this one letter was brought to his attention (for some reason) I am sure he'd just grunt ("uhh...") and that would be the end of that.

I know everyone thinks this letter was some sort of toe in the door, but it's already forgotten if even noticed.

You are wrong, very wrong about what happened today at CM Imm. as a result of the letter in Bangkok Post. The G4T office is closed and more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions were distributed because of inquiries from numerous government offices that saw the letter.

I think today may be remembered as a turning point. Or not. Time will tell. But if more people do this sort of thing it could make the entire country aware that our office has the slogan "nowhere else but Chiang Mai"

[cyberfarang]

Is there anyone reading these posts that use immigration services in other areas? The pros and and cons?

Well you could check other forums ie Phuket ,Pattaya etc but feed back I get from former colleagues and friends now living in Bangkok,Hua Hin ,Pattaya and Phuket have

no issue with using Immigation to comply with the law and certainly not queuing in the middle of the night with a torch, thermos and a prayer..

Living here in CM you have no option but to use the Chiang Mai Immgration office unless you are into border runs.

I have looked in at other forums, only it would be good to hear from people with first hand experience, just to make some comparisons.

[connda]

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Ha! That's rich. Sorry, but you put way too much stock in newspapers. It's not like the movies.

As a journalist in Asia for many years, and newspapers for most of that time, I can tell you that NO vetting goes on with letters to the editor. In fact, there is supposed to be a policy whereby you can sign your letter anything you want but you must also include your real name and contact number where you can be reached to verify that it is actually you writing the letter. NO ONE ever does this; there's just no time for that. And letters aren't important enough to spend valuable resources tracking down if the letter is a hoax or not.

Believe me, no copy editor has the time or interest to follow up on a letter (They are barely read anyway before going in). They are filler on the op-ed page, must like briefs are on the international section.

My guess is also that the head of immigration (all of immigration) in Bangkok does not read the English newspapers (although he might on occasion), and instead reads the Thai papers. Even if this one letter was brought to his attention (for some reason) I am sure he'd just grunt ("uhh...") and that would be the end of that.

I know everyone thinks this letter was some sort of toe in the door, but it's already forgotten if even noticed.

I know everyone thinks this letter was some sort of toe in the door, but it's already forgotten if even noticed.

Better than putting you head in the sand, you butt in the air, and offering it up for servicing if you catch my drift.

However, thanks for the input regarding the internal operations of the typical Op-ed department. It's useful information. If Thai papers are the same, maybe its time to write a Thai translated version similar to Sparkles OP in the BKK Post and send it to the major Thai news rags. If they are that lax in vetting letters, then we should have an interesting go at it. 'Eh?

[cyberfarang]

I don't believe in coincidences. I think Sparkles letter in the BP generated some disquiet in BKK, and CNX Imm were warned to get their house in order before allegations of corruption were rifled about. Possibly also pressured by 'genuine' visa agents, not the G4T CNX officials' lackeys.

Another easy little earner discredited. My remaining concern is how many 'retirement' processing officers will be made available to handle c.30 applications a day. Or was it a ruse by CNX to convince BKK that more resource is needed? Knowing how Thailand officialism ticks, it wouldn't surprise me.

Whatever, CNX Imm cannot 'return' to their old ways now complaints are being heard. (Hopefully.)

What distinguishes the genuine visa agents from G4T?

[Genericnic]

I don't believe in coincidences. I think Sparkles letter in the BP generated some disquiet in BKK, and CNX Imm were warned to get their house in order before allegations of corruption were rifled about. Possibly also pressured by 'genuine' visa agents, not the G4T CNX officials' lackeys.

Another easy little earner discredited. My remaining concern is how many 'retirement' processing officers will be made available to handle c.30 applications a day. Or was it a ruse by CNX to convince BKK that more resource is needed? Knowing how Thailand officialism ticks, it wouldn't surprise me.

Whatever, CNX Imm cannot 'return' to their old ways now complaints are being heard. (Hopefully.)

What distinguishes the genuine visa agents from G4T?

The genuine visa agents charge more.

David

[Genericnic]

Personally, I hope the G4T folks are not gone for good. The government fees are not going to change, of course, but if G4T can get me the same, legitimate extension and charge me a lower fee than the other agents, they are the ones that get my business. That is one of the fundamental tenets of capitalism. If part of that fee is used to "grease the wheels" a bit, it is not my problem. To paraphrase Otto van Bismarck, "deals in Thailand are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."

For what G4T was charging, I would rather pay them once a year and sleep later.

David

[naboo]

I think it would be important, for the sake of public service, for anyone at immigration tomorrow (Friday) to post a photograph of the G4T office should it be open.

There are clearly some people keen to use their services and so photographic evidence of an open shop may help.

[northernjohn]

It would be interesting to know if any of their journos had made discreet enquiries.

Ha! That's rich. Sorry, but you put way too much stock in newspapers. It's not like the movies.

As a journalist in Asia for many years, and newspapers for most of that time, I can tell you that NO vetting goes on with letters to the editor. In fact, there is supposed to be a policy whereby you can sign your letter anything you want but you must also include your real name and contact number where you can be reached to verify that it is actually you writing the letter. NO ONE ever does this; there's just no time for that. And letters aren't important enough to spend valuable resources tracking down if the letter is a hoax or not.

Believe me, no copy editor has the time or interest to follow up on a letter (They are barely read anyway before going in). They are filler on the op-ed page, must like briefs are on the international section.

My guess is also that the head of immigration (all of immigration) in Bangkok does not read the English newspapers (although he might on occasion), and instead reads the Thai papers. Even if this one letter was brought to his attention (for some reason) I am sure he'd just grunt ("uhh...") and that would be the end of that.

I know everyone thinks this letter was some sort of toe in the door, but it's already forgotten if even noticed.

You are wrong, very wrong about what happened today at CM Imm. as a result of the letter in Bangkok Post. The G4T office is closed and more than 20 queue tickets for retirement extensions were distributed because of inquiries from numerous government offices that saw the letter.

I think today may be remembered as a turning point. Or not. Time will tell. But if more people do this sort of thing it could make the entire country aware that our office has the slogan "nowhere else but Chiang Mai"

There is a thread in the General Forum on this. It is are we being persecuted or some thing like that. It asks about Immigration and bar closing hours in other parts of Thailand. We are not alone in Thailand with the bar closing hours but we are alone with immigration problems.