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Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2


Tywais

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Went out to Promenada this morning to submit a TM28, in preparation for a hopefully successful 90-day and annual retirement renewal - both due in January.

Arrived at 8:00am and counted 37 people in the retirement queue at that time, including the stools with books on them in line with the humans.

Around 8:40 two officers came out and proceeded to process the queue by checking that all required documents were in order and handing out queue numbers if they were. They sent 2 (or maybe 3) people away due to inadequate paperwork. They proceeded to hand out queue tickets to the remaining first 25 people in the line. (I counted as they handed them out, and also saw the 2nd-to-last guy walk away with number 24.)

They then announced to the rest of the line that there were no more queue numbers available for today. While dealing with the rejects, one of the officers clearly said there were 30 queue numbers available per day. This contradicts the 25 that I counted, unless they gave the last person 6 numbers, which I doubt.

The people cutoff after 25 were rationally requesting that they be issued queue numbers for tomorrow, instead of requiring them to start over by lining up even earlier in the dark on another day. The protestations were simply ignored.

I overheard the man who got number 21 say that he arrived in line at 6:00am

I can definitely and unequivocally say that they did not serve everybody in the retirement queue who showed up before opening time. 25 was today's limit, with a claim made that 30 was the limit. A minimum of 37 people showed up for retirement renewal today, with probably a few more joining the queue after my 8:00am count.

The people cutoff after 25 were rationally requesting that they be issued queue numbers for tomorrow, instead of requiring them to start over by lining up even earlier in the dark on another day. The protestations were simply ignored.

That is in my opinion a big no no. Yet it would seem not to many people are concerned with it. I see no answer for that as it could build up to where you are getting a queue number for two days down the line.

How ever to get back to the land of reality. We should stop telling the world how wonderful Chiang Mai is to retire to. Nancy tells us that last year they did 5,250 retirement extensions. Now they say they are giving out 30 a day. ( I would not be a bit surprised if an agent had not received more than 1)

30 a day = 150 a week times say 50 weeks = 7,500 in one year. That is a growth of 2,250 in one year.

Stop bragging about us it equals one bad day or maybe two bad days a year for some.

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TFirst off, the "paperwork" for a retirement extension is extremely easy and entails only a few things. Moreover, what you have to bring is not a closely guarded secret; finding out what you need is easy.

Secondly, (and I was going to post about this earlier when NancyL said something about people coming to her who didn't know squat about how to even start the extension process) -- how on earth can you be a guest in a country (and want to retire there) and not be able to do the basic research on what is required of you to continue to stay?

Nothing personal to the poster here, but I find it remarkable that a person would actually go to immigration for a retirement extension and be turned away because he wasn't prepared. What is that? Arrogance? Stupidity?

What is the thinking process? "Well, I didn't do any homework at all on what I need to provide, so I brought these copies and some other things -- that should be enough; anyway, I'm an American, whatever I give you ought to be sufficient..."

I have not lived in the country where I was born for over 30 years now and I have never screwed up on an extension, a visa, a work permit, a resident alien permit, a reentry permit or overstayed my visa. This is not bragging -- there is nothing clever about this. You want to live in a foreign country? Well, you need this and that and you have to report here at such and such a time and you need copies of this and ... we all (or so I thought) know the drill.

It reminds me of what an old friend once said: "People should have to pass an IQ test before they are issued a passport."

To cherry pick part of my post means the above impolite response is totally out of context. Nothing personal here, and I am quite capable of completing my own paper-work - but others are not, and they hold up the queue while the officer points out their mistakes, most probably to do with the income/bank deposit requirements. Additionally, other recent 'rules' are enforced, e.g. provision of a 6*4 photo against a BLUE background - wasn't questioned last year, but this year it would be.

If say 6 people held up the processing for 5 minutes a pop, that's 30 minutes of time 'lost', let alone people going back and forth to the officer with copies of this, that, and the other.

My suggestion was, if everyone who wasn't too sure what was needed this time round paid someone like G4T 500 baht to ensure no delays could occur at the officer's desk, it would benefit everyone, even you who has to wait your turn to see the officer and be processed.

So please think before just posting off your own 'perfect' handling of such matters.

An excellent suggestion. It will of course meet with the resistance of certain posters who are more interested in who makes money than how fast they can process the applicants.

I paid 3,000 baht and was out of there in 5 minutes. As you say if the officers loose 30 minutes a day with correcting paper work. That is 6 less a day they can process. Plus as you say the time they go back and for the for the photocopies and correct pictures. That can be more time wasted.

Officers time wasted = less applicants processed. This is not rocket science people.

It would take them a while to see that these people checking the paper work were accurate such as all the agents but once they had that we would see a definite improvement.

Twice I have had my paper work OKed by the girls out front. On both occasions they were wrong and the officers inside know that. Hence they do the checking them selves. Huge time loss.

While on the subject of "rocket science," going to GT4 and paying 3,000 baht is an excellent example of the desired effect immigration is looking for. Immigration discontinued their online queue, and has purposely gone out of their way to make it difficult for expats to comply with immigrations yearly requirements. Why you ask. Please refer to my first sentence.

I apologize to those who think it is rocket science to me it is clear as broad day light on a sunny day.

The online system allowed ten a day with a half hour apiece. Now we are hearing that they are giving out 30 a day(one of several rumors.) If they were to allow all 30 to make an appointment on line that would be 15 hours. Now that number does not include the number who are above the 30 queue number.1/2 hour X 30 = 15 hours they work an 8 hour day well I am sure you see where this is going. No need to talk about the ones that still have to have their hands held.

The answer is simple at least one more officer with signing authority on the extension line and if not needed there elsewhere. In addition to a strict checking of the paper work before you are allowed in to see the officer.

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Went out to Promenada this morning to submit a TM28, in preparation for a hopefully successful 90-day and annual retirement renewal - both due in January.

Arrived at 8:00am and counted 37 people in the retirement queue at that time, including the stools with books on them in line with the humans.

Around 8:40 two officers came out and proceeded to process the queue by checking that all required documents were in order and handing out queue numbers if they were. They sent 2 (or maybe 3) people away due to inadequate paperwork. They proceeded to hand out queue tickets to the remaining first 25 people in the line. (I counted as they handed them out, and also saw the 2nd-to-last guy walk away with number 24.)

They then announced to the rest of the line that there were no more queue numbers available for today. While dealing with the rejects, one of the officers clearly said there were 30 queue numbers available per day. This contradicts the 25 that I counted, unless they gave the last person 6 numbers, which I doubt.

The people cutoff after 25 were rationally requesting that they be issued queue numbers for tomorrow, instead of requiring them to start over by lining up even earlier in the dark on another day. The protestations were simply ignored.

I overheard the man who got number 21 say that he arrived in line at 6:00am

I can definitely and unequivocally say that they did not serve everybody in the retirement queue who showed up before opening time. 25 was today's limit, with a claim made that 30 was the limit. A minimum of 37 people showed up for retirement renewal today, with probably a few more joining the queue after my 8:00am count.

Great report on what CM immigration is doing to the expat community on a daily basis. Turning away people who show up at immigration in compliance of their yearly immigration requirements is totally unacceptable on any level. It's too bad the various foreign embassies have absolutely no influence at immigration what so ever.

Agree completely. Foreign embassies are just jobs for the boys. No way would they rock the boat by doing their job and actually complaining about the inefficiencies.

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TFirst off, the "paperwork" for a retirement extension is extremely easy and entails only a few things. Moreover, what you have to bring is not a closely guarded secret; finding out what you need is easy.

Secondly, (and I was going to post about this earlier when NancyL said something about people coming to her who didn't know squat about how to even start the extension process) -- how on earth can you be a guest in a country (and want to retire there) and not be able to do the basic research on what is required of you to continue to stay?

Nothing personal to the poster here, but I find it remarkable that a person would actually go to immigration for a retirement extension and be turned away because he wasn't prepared. What is that? Arrogance? Stupidity?

What is the thinking process? "Well, I didn't do any homework at all on what I need to provide, so I brought these copies and some other things -- that should be enough; anyway, I'm an American, whatever I give you ought to be sufficient..."

I have not lived in the country where I was born for over 30 years now and I have never screwed up on an extension, a visa, a work permit, a resident alien permit, a reentry permit or overstayed my visa. This is not bragging -- there is nothing clever about this. You want to live in a foreign country? Well, you need this and that and you have to report here at such and such a time and you need copies of this and ... we all (or so I thought) know the drill.

It reminds me of what an old friend once said: "People should have to pass an IQ test before they are issued a passport."

To cherry pick part of my post means the above impolite response is totally out of context. Nothing personal here, and I am quite capable of completing my own paper-work - but others are not, and they hold up the queue while the officer points out their mistakes, most probably to do with the income/bank deposit requirements. Additionally, other recent 'rules' are enforced, e.g. provision of a 6*4 photo against a BLUE background - wasn't questioned last year, but this year it would be.

If say 6 people held up the processing for 5 minutes a pop, that's 30 minutes of time 'lost', let alone people going back and forth to the officer with copies of this, that, and the other.

My suggestion was, if everyone who wasn't too sure what was needed this time round paid someone like G4T 500 baht to ensure no delays could occur at the officer's desk, it would benefit everyone, even you who has to wait your turn to see the officer and be processed.

So please think before just posting off your own 'perfect' handling of such matters.

An excellent suggestion. It will of course meet with the resistance of certain posters who are more interested in who makes money than how fast they can process the applicants.

I paid 3,000 baht and was out of there in 5 minutes. As you say if the officers loose 30 minutes a day with correcting paper work. That is 6 less a day they can process. Plus as you say the time they go back and for the for the photocopies and correct pictures. That can be more time wasted.

Officers time wasted = less applicants processed. This is not rocket science people.

It would take them a while to see that these people checking the paper work were accurate such as all the agents but once they had that we would see a definite improvement.

Twice I have had my paper work OKed by the girls out front. On both occasions they were wrong and the officers inside know that. Hence they do the checking them selves. Huge time loss.

While on the subject of "rocket science," going to GT4 and paying 3,000 baht is an excellent example of the desired effect immigration is looking for. Immigration discontinued their online queue, and has purposely gone out of their way to make it difficult for expats to comply with immigrations yearly requirements. Why you ask. Please refer to my first sentence.

I apologize to those who think it is rocket science to me it is clear as broad day light on a sunny day.

The online system allowed ten a day with a half hour apiece. Now we are hearing that they are giving out 30 a day(one of several rumors.) If they were to allow all 30 to make an appointment on line that would be 15 hours. Now that number does not include the number who are above the 30 queue number.1/2 hour X 30 = 15 hours they work an 8 hour day well I am sure you see where this is going. No need to talk about the ones that still have to have their hands held.

The answer is simple at least one more officer with signing authority on the extension line and if not needed there elsewhere. In addition to a strict checking of the paper work before you are allowed in to see the officer.

Everything you say is pure logic. I understand where you`re coming from even if others don`t get it.

This should not be about who makes money but how fast they can process the applicants, including immigration exactly how you say. Nancy’s theory is that if the GT4 were closed down immigration would compensate by lying on more slots because the incentives would not be there to push people into using GT4. If only that was a certainty then I would support her all the way, but instead I fear the closing down of GT4 would mean being pushed to use the slower more expensive agencies being played right into their hands or taking my chances for a hellish day at the zoo. It’s all full of uncertainties and crap trying to fathom out what to do for the best, who to trust and who makes the most sense. I just don’t know.

What I do know is that expats are being treated like manure in Chiang Mai and if we were citizens we would be third class citizens equal to refugees which makes me suspect that they couldn’t care less if the whole lot of us buggered off somewhere else. If immigration considered us as a valuable resource to Thailand, like they do with the Japanese, they would lay on staff to advise and assist with paperwork and accommodate us with respectability. There are no excuses for the crap being thrown at us at the moment. I definitely would not recommend anyone to retire in Chiang Mai, just the opposite in fact.

I voted for Nancy in the poster of the year contest and wishing her a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year and thank her for everything. I am not the C she thinks I am, just another Chiang Mai resident who is rapidly become more and more disillusioned with Thailand each year, day by day, not with the people but with the system that sucks big time and seems to work against us.

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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

Which is despicable. Expletives in abundance about what I think about our service. Can someone tell me why we're treated differently to any other offices?
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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

@NancyL,

In reading your post about the Japanese, it just dawned on me that they had worked out a better procedure than "queue jumping" that people ascribe to those using G4T. Instead, they created their own queue at an even lower cost than that charged by G4T and, if my memory is correct, they did the processing with immigration officers showing up on the weekends. To me, that sounds like much more preferential treatment by immigration than what is alleged to occur with G4T. I can see where they might be unhappy with being treated like the rest of us.

David

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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

Which is despicable. Expletives in abundance about what I think about our service. Can someone tell me why we're treated differently to any other offices?

I've hinted at the explanation before, on more than one occasion, only to find my posts.....well, made to disappear. So I'll just keep my mouth shut. But don't feel alone. You live in a country who's defamation laws protect the elite and the government itself. Don't point out specific individuals or specific individual entities and you're probably Ok, but the moment you get specific, you've got a problem. Right or wrong is irrelevant.

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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

@NancyL,

In reading your post about the Japanese, it just dawned on me that they had worked out a better procedure than "queue jumping" that people ascribe to those using G4T. Instead, they created their own queue at an even lower cost than that charged by G4T and, if my memory is correct, they did the processing with immigration officers showing up on the weekends. To me, that sounds like much more preferential treatment by immigration than what is alleged to occur with G4T. I can see where they might be unhappy with being treated like the rest of us.

David

Did they pay extra for this service. Does anyone know.?

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This should not be about who makes money but how fast they can process the applicants, including immigration exactly how you say. Nancy’s theory is that if the GT4 were closed down immigration would compensate by lying on more slots because the incentives would not be there to push people into using GT4. If only that was a certainty then I would support her all the way, but instead I fear the closing down of GT4 would mean being pushed to use the slower more expensive agencies being played right into their hands or taking my chances for a hellish day at the zoo. It’s all full of uncertainties and crap trying to fathom out what to do for the best, who to trust and who makes the most sense. I just don’t know.

What I do know is that expats are being treated like manure in Chiang Mai and if we were citizens we would be third class citizens equal to refugees which makes me suspect that they couldn’t care less if the whole lot of us buggered off somewhere else. If immigration considered us as a valuable resource to Thailand, like they do with the Japanese, they would lay on staff to advise and assist with paperwork and accommodate us with respectability. There are no excuses for the crap being thrown at us at the moment. I definitely would not recommend anyone to retire in Chiang Mai, just the opposite in fact.

I voted for Nancy in the poster of the year contest and wishing her a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year and thank her for everything. I am not the C she thinks I am, just another Chiang Mai resident who is rapidly become more and more disillusioned with Thailand each year, day by day, not with the people but with the system that sucks big time and seems to work against us.

Don't give up on Immigration this is only happening in Chiang Mai. The other provinces are not complaining. There was a thread on the General Forum talking about the immigration and closing times of the bars. Other provinces reported bar closing times being aligned with the law. How ever none of them complained about their immigration.

The Japanese were working together and spending money out of their own pocket to expedite their extensions not complaining on Facebook. Nancy set up a similar situation and it got canceled because of the bombing in Bangkok. In Pattaya apparently they have volunteer's checking the paper work before you see an officer. I would imagine that they have done it correctly for a long enough period that the immigration staff trust's their judgment. Here in Chiang Mai they have the girls out front and the staff for good reasons does not trust their judgment.

Also We defiantly have a larger population of retired people than others. The problem is closer to home than Bangkok. Make what you will of that.

I believe the Japanese paid 200 baht for the officers on their own time to come in. Not completely sure how that would work as they would still need the one officer to sign them.

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This is a very interesting article I found online tonight called, Chiang Mai Stories Past and future of visa to Thailand: Thailand's losing edge.

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/117-chiang-mai-stories:past-and-future-of-visa-to-thailand-thailand-s-losing-edge

It doesn`t specify retirement extensions but I think it`s still interesting. If not permissible on Thai Visa, mods please delete this post.

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Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

Which is despicable. Expletives in abundance about what I think about our service. Can someone tell me why we're treated differently to any other offices?

This, of course, is the billion baht question that no one can seem to answer. And it's been asked by some people in very high places.

Maybe the answer is "because they can"

Just look at how the number of retirees coming to Chiang Mai continues to grow.

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