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Tywais

Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2

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Not only Immigration.To get a yellow house book recently they required the full names of my parents and where they were born.

I am 73 and both my parents passed away 19 and 22 years respectively.Didnt even bother to ask why they wanted it,obviously important.

Its the reason I carry a plastic box of every single document I have ever had.Old passports ,bank books ,birth certificate etc etc.

I used to be a boy scout, motto "be prepared" especially for Immigration

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I have had some interesting experiences over the years at immigration. I remember my first impression when I moved here. Immigration resembled a poorly run circus. i never dreamed it could get worst. Fast forward to today and it has to be one of the most poorly run immigration offices in Thailand. Thanks to their efforts to be the worst of the worst, I plan on using a visa agency to soften the pain of my required yearly visit.

I think it is interesting to note, all the copies of your personal information you are required to provide these people every year is re-used. They merely turn the pages over and share them with other foreigners when they visit immigration. You just can't make stuff like this up.

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The fact is that every application has to be based on it`s merits. Even if an applicant has all the correct paperwork an officer can still decide he wants to see more if an applicant seems is being deceptive, or doesn`t satisfy that the intentions for being in Thailand are only for retirement reasons or could have a criminal record somewhere, in fact there could be many reasons involved. An applicant only receives the final stamp at an officers discretion and maybe why immigration does not display a printed list of requirements?

Sorry that makes no sense.. I am not in anyway saying officers dont have the power to want further checks or to refuse the extension or to need further research.

The issue is immigration processing of extensions is taking too long.. part of why they are taking too long is due to poor quality applications.. How do you improve the quality of the applications ?? Standardize what precisely they want !! Then when its 100% standardized, publish it in 100% clear way, on a wall poster giving examples, with a leaflet handout, etc etc.. Then when its clear (For marriage we want 4 photos, one must be of you wedding, others must be in the last year.. For money we want it in the bank x months prior to the application date.. Please make a transaction in the week prior to application.. Etc..) not only do people have far higher quality of applications, officers would be more constrained by the consistency and not their own miss guided idea of the day.. And the student helpers could go over the app with a far high level of confidence that the 'checklist' is on point.

None of that stop the officer then 'wanting to see more' or having any control.. It just stop the officer all wanting something strange and new. Its hardly rocket science, I could write a logical clear set of guidelines in a couple of hours, if only officers would then actually stick to them.

Remember when they want to start fining people TM28s and TM30s they sure can get it together to print up a leaflet explaining the fines !!! But they cant bother to do one which would constrain them and speed up everyones application ???

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I think it is interesting to note, all the copies of your personal information you are required to provide these people every year is re-used. They merely turn the pages over and share them with other foreigners when they visit immigration. You just can't make stuff like this up.

Seriously.. I have programmers who could snap together a database system, which would eliminate 80 or 90% of this for a few 1000 USD.. A system where we the user would do the data entry to achieve our 90 day reporting.. Countrywide servers, etc could be handled easily for a few 10's of 1000s.. Make each farang pay 500b for a chipped smartcard linked to the same database and its self funding, eliminates huge volumes of staff, data entry, etc etc..

Its trivial.. One of my projects handles something FAR more complex with a couple of full time staff and contract programmers..

I was actually considering making a simple one, where the user enters their own data, and for a couple of bucks it spits out your application forms fully filled in each year (add in car buy and sell, driving license apps, etc etc).. Even tho tha need for paper forms these days is just behind the curve, having a single log in to print out your thai forms for many topics, with a simple CTRL P, rather than driving to get it, understanding the fields, etc etc would be worth a cup of coffee price tag..

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Because they constantly change and modify what they demand.. From day to day and app to app..
And how easy would it be to make a printout, a poster, or a handout, that documented PRECISELY what they want ??

Pinned threads on ThaiVisa are not carved in digital stone. They can be updated, so if immigration changed something, or oscillated about photos sizes, for example, that could be reflected by updating the pinned thread, yes?

From my 10-years' experience, I have not found much change in the yearly requirements. They're not all over the map. No use hyperbolizing.

The point is that a ThaiVisa thread carries no authority.. Immigration setting a public rule does give a precise list, with authority !!

But they sort of are all over the map.. Just my own personal ones of the last few years..

Photos..

Printed on paper not OK.. Needed to be 'photos' stuck to paper.. Next year printed preferred.

Previous years demands for picture of wedding.. This year told no dont want wedding want stuff you do together this year, holidays travel etc..

Wanted pics of road entrance to house.. this year not want..

Maps.. Google map not ok must be hand drawn.. later.. Google map preferred..

Marriage proof.. This year even went and asked prior to the app and was told I must go get a new one annually.. Wife got one from amphur to be told, no just use the same one each year !!

Seasoning.. Didnt need a recent transaction.. recently needed one..

Considering some things have no possible interpretation all the rest is pretty damn vague.. Every officer plays their own rules and each one has to have a tut tut, this is a problem, if you wai me nicely I might just overlook and solve it..

Set a simple rule.. write it up.. and that in turn makes the officer stick to it.. Consistency breeds consistency !!

Your intentions are admirable and well meaning, however unless you compiled a list with example pictures of the documents, in many cases a list in itself would be pointless to many.

Like NancyL I help a few local expats that struggle to understand the system and identification of documents.

I prepared lists for these expats for such as mail in 90 day reports, extensions (marriage and retirement), obtaining and renewing Driving Licences and how to get a Yellow Tabian Baan and even then they quite frequently get it wrong.

When you've helped someone do their last 6 mail in 90 days, then leave them alone to do their 7th alone, only for them to screw it up by not knowing the difference between a TM6 and their last Entry Stamp, then you realise what Immigration are up against.

These are not stupid or mentally impaired people, the lights just don't switch on with the terminology used.

I just keep plugging away!

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Yes of course it should have pictures.. thats a 'well duh'.. hence why it needs a clear poster showing examples of 'etc'..

Plus I tend to disagree that they are not stupid.. if the form says TM47 at the top, its a TM47.. If after being shown it, shown where it says TM47, and where it says TM6.. They dont catch on that the TM number = the form, they are (slightly) mentally deficient.. Explain the terminology once and after that it IS their fault.

Plus yes theres senile people and retards out there.. You cant cater to everyone.. Hence why students could give it a clear once over (something they cant do while immigration have officer dependent interpretations) and when wrong can be pointed to the english (or others with helpers) poster to help guide them.. But I would say the vast majority of people can follow simple, clear, with big pictures, instructions !!!

A BIG part of the problem, is each officer wants to make things up.. Have their own idea.. dont operate a standard.. And when they do this, theres no way to appeal, over rule. or ask another officer or the boss to 'correct' that understanding back to a clear rule.. No one will ever correct the officer because face.

I readily admit its not the only problem, but the lack of a standard policy, understood by ALL, applicants and officers alike, is a major stumbling block, a major slowdown in process, and a cause of stress for applicants as you never know what new wacky idea they think of this app.. The cost to solve this is trivial, perhaps an afternoon for a logical, concise, person to draft it, a 1 hour consult with some 'big boss' to clarify, correct, and adjust in a exact detail fashion (something Thais abhor) and then print and produce (PDF downloads available).

Clarity, detail, precision, and firm exact statements.. Something the Thai psyche and language doesnt like.. Hence why applications are all over the place and we see what we see.. Easy to solve but no will to do so.

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The point is that a ThaiVisa thread carries no authority.. Immigration setting a public rule does give a precise list, with authority !!

I assumed we were talking about extending RETIREMENT VISAS, since that is done at Promenada -- the subject of this thread (Immigration Promenada One Stop Service).

This thread is about services at Promenada, which does not include marriage dealings.

As for ThaiVisa pinning requirements, as I said, they can be updated and they already do this for 90-day reporting; so why not retirement visa extensions?

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The point is that a ThaiVisa thread carries no authority.. Immigration setting a public rule does give a precise list, with authority !!

I assumed we were talking about extending RETIREMENT VISAS, since that is done at Promenada -- the subject of this thread (Immigration Promenada One Stop Service).

This thread is about services at Promenada, which does not include marriage dealings.

As for ThaiVisa pinning requirements, as I said, they can be updated and they already do this for 90-day reporting; so why not retirement visa extensions?

The fact is this same thing apply's to everything immigration does.. 90 days, extensions, TM30, etc..

Standardize it.

Publicize it.

Create a set of clear concise instructions.

Its not rocket science.. The constant reasoning why we are made to suffer is they are over worked, well streamline the system and reduce the workload then !!

The fact that this isnt done, show (to me) they dont want to make it easier faster, less stressful.. Best go pay an agent then ;)

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It appears that a number of people, who qualify for a marriage extension, do a retirement extension for the sake of simplicity, and if I were married; I would be one of them.

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The fact is that every application has to be based on it`s merits. Even if an applicant has all the correct paperwork an officer can still decide he wants to see more if an applicant seems is being deceptive, or doesn`t satisfy that the intentions for being in Thailand are only for retirement reasons or could have a criminal record somewhere, in fact there could be many reasons involved. An applicant only receives the final stamp at an officers discretion and maybe why immigration does not display a printed list of requirements?

Sorry that makes no sense.. I am not in anyway saying officers dont have the power to want further checks or to refuse the extension or to need further research.

The issue is immigration processing of extensions is taking too long.. part of why they are taking too long is due to poor quality applications.. How do you improve the quality of the applications ?? Standardize what precisely they want !! Then when its 100% standardized, publish it in 100% clear way, on a wall poster giving examples, with a leaflet handout, etc etc.. Then when its clear (For marriage we want 4 photos, one must be of you wedding, others must be in the last year.. For money we want it in the bank x months prior to the application date.. Please make a transaction in the week prior to application.. Etc..) not only do people have far higher quality of applications, officers would be more constrained by the consistency and not their own miss guided idea of the day.. And the student helpers could go over the app with a far high level of confidence that the 'checklist' is on point.

None of that stop the officer then 'wanting to see more' or having any control.. It just stop the officer all wanting something strange and new. Its hardly rocket science, I could write a logical clear set of guidelines in a couple of hours, if only officers would then actually stick to them.

Remember when they want to start fining people TM28s and TM30s they sure can get it together to print up a leaflet explaining the fines !!! But they cant bother to do one which would constrain them and speed up everyones application ???

Well it is true that they often do have different requests for the married applicants and it needs standardization.

My big question is what does all this have to do with Promenada one stop. They do not do marriage extensions there. If it is such a huge problem as some would say why do they not open a thread on it? The normal extension based on wage income or money in the bank for non married applicants that they handle at Promenada has been the same for years. If I am to believe some of the people who have been here for years. I myself have not seen a change in them in 5 years. I know an officer may have an off day and take it out on an applicant but that seems to be a rarity.

As for the changes in the 90 day one change that I know of and it was in some wording in the office only space. Other than that the form was the same. Can't say about the others as I have only had to do the one permission to reenter once. Saw no problem with it. The multiple reentries were always the same when I got them. Has there been changes in the others or are they just enforcing the existing rules every now and then?

Once again if a marriage is such a huge problem why don't the people start a thread ion it. Is it possible it is not that big a deal?

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If I were married here, I'd put a bullet in my head....

Whatever happens with marriage here should be in the other thread about the airport immigration office.

As for retirement extensions, as I said, and others have as well, the requirements are not changing year to year.

By the way, I always take more documentation than I think I will need -- passport copies of all pages with Thai stamps on them, copy of something mailed to me (3BB internet bill) to my address and name in Thai, photos of various sizes and backgrounds, etc.

I am surprised that someone would be caught flat-footed and not have the proper photo or document, unless it is the first time they have ever been to an immigration office in their life.

Always be prepared, and that means come with everything you can possibly think of. Better to have stuff you don't need than don't have something you do need.

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If I were married here, I'd put a bullet in my head....

Whatever happens with marriage here should be in the other thread about the airport immigration office.

As for retirement extensions, as I said, and others have as well, the requirements are not changing year to year.

By the way, I always take more documentation than I think I will need -- passport copies of all pages with Thai stamps on them, copy of something mailed to me (3BB internet bill) to my address and name in Thai, photos of various sizes and backgrounds, etc.

I am surprised that someone would be caught flat-footed and not have the proper photo or document, unless it is the first time they have ever been to an immigration office in their life.

Always be prepared, and that means come with everything you can possibly think of. Better to have stuff you don't need than don't have something you do need.

I've posted a list of documents required for retirement extensions before on TV.........with the disclaimer, 'that not all the above documents may be requested, but if you have them all at hand, it can save disappointment and wasted time and money, if requested'.

It was criticised by many members, with reply's.........I've never been asked for that!

Guess they didn't read the disclaimer first!

It was a general list not appertaining to any one individual Immigration office.

If anyone knows the specific requirements for Chiang Mai, print it, proof read it and ask if it can be pinned in the Chiang Mai Forum.

Just think of the topics;

90 day reports in person.

90 day reports by mail.

Extensions based on retirement.

Extensions based on marriage.

Re- entry permits.

30 day Visa extensions

I'll be sure to look in on page 36 of the criticisms it receives.

However helpful you try to be, the doubting Thomas brigade will appear.

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Famous last words: "They didn't ask for it last year."

Brilliant.........thumbsup.gif

OR

"They never ask me for Proof of Address"..............as they submit copies of their landlords or wife's Tabian Baan every year.

You can't make this stuff up!

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I am wondering?

Has anyone that has used any of the Chiang Mai agencies, past or present for their retirement visa applications or extensions had their paperwork rejected by immigration for any reasons even though still using an agency? Or is it a situation that the paperwork if using an agency is always accepted and the process goes through without hitches?

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