Koh Tao Murders: Defense Asks Court to Drop Charges

[Lancashireman]

David was killed by one blow ? Despite photos proving otherwise this is the sort of evidence the RTP claim to be water tight.

In leaked transcripts, the fatal blow is construed as 'one' blow. The photographs, those we seem to be reliant upon, aren't very clear. The submitted evidence may well be better quality.

[lucky11]

Are the bookies taking bets on this and what are the odds. I would imagine about 100-1 they are found guilty.

So you think that they will be found innocent then. I wouldn't take you on as an odds placer if I had a betting shop!!

The fact that they tricked themselves into admitting the rape plus this phone issue simply confirms my long held belief that they did it.

Is there any physical evidence that they committed the crime ?

The interview they gave to the Washington Post whereby they implicated themselves by admitting that they raped her without using condoms (the reporter didn't torture them BTW as he was vehemently defending them) is enough for me - being in possession of David's phone and then smashing and trying to dispose of it in a hurry doesn't scream innocence either.

[boomerangutang]

I think that the mafia don't really care if these guys get acquitted as long as there is no follow up investigation, which there will not be.

Oh they really do care, they don't want this to be an open case.

There's truth in both the above statements. Both agree, as I do, that Thai officialdom (and people connected to Mon) don't want a 2nd trial. However, such things have happened in Thailand: Years ago, a young farang woman was murdered by a taxi driver in Bkk. The 1st trial was shown to be badly prosecuted, along with scapegoats(sound familiar?). A second trial was ordered, and the real culprits were found guilty. However, the mastermind of the murder (a well-connected Thai woman) was allowed to slip away. And the cop who headed the botched initial investigation, when he was later told he was going to be investigated, emptied his bank accounts and fled permanently to Florida.

That's why, in this case, Somyot and Jaktip (former and current police chiefs) should have their passports confiscated. Both were intrinsically involved with the KT cover-up.

[ChrisY1]

Let's see if Koh Tao, Samui, phangan and Phuket are included in Prayut's Mafia Crackdown. Get rid of the opium shakes and other readily available drugs that are used to incapacitate victims. Return the islands to public domain.

My guess is that Payuth will not go anywhere near these regions in the hunt to root out "mafia" elements.....it'll likely be a selected crack-down on enemies!

[KamalaRider]

Are the bookies taking bets on this and what are the odds. I would imagine about 100-1 they are found guilty.

So you think that they will be found innocent then. I wouldn't take you on as an odds placer if I had a betting shop!!

The fact that they tricked themselves into admitting the rape plus this phone issue simply confirms my long held belief that they did it.

Is there any physical evidence that they committed the crime ?

The interview they gave to the Washington Post whereby they implicated themselves by admitting that they raped her without using condoms (the reporter didn't torture them BTW as he was vehemently defending them) is enough for me - being in possession of David's phone and then smashing and trying to dispose of it in a hurry doesn't scream innocence either.

Now you have to show that article or stop feeding TV with false information.

I do recall another news article from another news agency made an article but if my memory serves me correctly, that was before they retracted their confession due to alleged torture.

Anyone committing a crime like that would NEVER crush the mobile and leave it there to be found just outside their living quarters, regardless how unintelligent they are.

Maybe a person ​under the influence of very heavy drugs, the question remains, why would they destroy an iPhone and leave it outside where they live?????

Not even a moron would do that.

[crazykopite]

I believe that you should always look at the glass half full rather than half empty ,but deep down inside I know that these two are the scapegoats and they will be found guilty in order that higher authorities can save face , even the self elected PM pronounced them guilty before the trial had even commenced, meanwhile those who carried out this terrible crime still roam the island ! My thoughts and prayers are with all the victims and families in this sordid case !

[KamalaRider]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

[dieseldave1951]

now THATS a good idea but will never happen the RT farce should have started looking months ago, instead of waiting for the verdict

1.Looking forward to an acquittal on the 24th

2. Also waiting for an announcement on the 25th that a new investigation will be launched to find the real killers

[stephenterry]

I have quoted the source of this article on numerous occasions and it is not false - it's amazing how careless people can be (especially when they are not the sharpest tool in the box) when they are trying to cover something up in sheer panic. It wasn't Wei who broke and disposed of it, it was his innocent friend who didn't want to be associated with her rape and their murders!!

And for a complete picture http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/15/rape-murder-and-a-deepening-mystery-on-a-tiny-tropical-island/

The relevant extract: But their confession was, itself, confused. The men said they didn’t use condoms, even though police insisted they had. Then, just a few days later, a lawyer for the two men declared that the confession was false: Police had beaten it out of them.

[lucky11]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

[AGareth2]

That is the problem with torture

people say what the interagators want to hear

not necessarily the same as the truth

[Tonyrichard]

I can't see it hapening.....too much loss of face?

I agree that it is extremely unlikely that the charges will be dropped - for the reasons TPI has mentioned. Also, the decision has already been made to announce the final judicial verdict on 24 December. This is clearly and cynically planned for a day and a period of the year when most Westerners will be distracted by Christmas activities. This choice of date alone makes it abundantly clear to me that the decision of a 'guilty' verdict has already been made. It will be smuggled out when most Westerners (who are especially interested in this case, as it was two Brits who were slaughtered) will be busy with their family and Christmas duties. Does this make you feel the nausea of disgust?

[KamalaRider]

I have quoted the source of this article on numerous occasions and it is not false - it's amazing how careless people can be (especially when they are not the sharpest tool in the box) when they are trying to cover something up in sheer panic. It wasn't Wei who broke and disposed of it, it was his innocent friend who didn't want to be associated with her rape and their murders!!

It should be easy for you to present the link for the article then, still haven't seen anything from you yest though.

Present it and I will shut up, if not, you have to stop with untrue statements or claims.

How do you know it was Wei that destroyed the phone? I would like to have a link for that as well.

You can't just type lose claims and state they are true and believe we should take your word for it.

[bristolgeoff]

they will be found not guilty,the case is weak,but just a way for Thailand to get out of it without losing face as the others are saying.once the excuse works they should be free

[yellowboat]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

"police said" According to the governments own forensics specialist, lady with the multi color hair, there was not enough DNA evidence due improper handling procedures. There does not seem to be enough physical evidence to back either party's claims.

[z42]

It seems that with so many interested parties, and with a mountain of actual evidence actually shredding the prosecution's case entirely, the court has no option but to acquit be it on a technicality or whatever.

If they (the prosecution) fight the acquittal then it will show a lot of the RTP's approaches in an even worse light (unqualified translators, sub standard DNA testing capabilities etc).

Either way the Burmese guys'chances of a bright future are gone. Very sad

You have contradicted yourself with your last sentence.

You say that the prosecution has no chance of a case. You then go on to say that the Burmese guys' chances of a bright future are gone.

I would say their future will be a lot brighter after this case. If they aren't awarded millions of Baht compensation, then selling their stories to various newspapers around the world, not to mention writing books about their ordeal, assures them of a very bright financial future.

What i meant with the last sentence was that these guys have no chance to make big bucks (by local standards) outside of Myanmar which they would send home to their families.

They are very well known now. A job in Thailand is a non starter. And other Asean countries are unlikely to pay well enough for it to be worth the hassle.

The only way they'll get some help is if they're compensated, and personally i doubt that will happen

[Mr Creosote]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

More confusing "evidence" again. I believe that the police are trying to make a case of premeditation here. Now I am no forensic expert but if two young simple minded Burmese rapists where brutally attacking a woman on a public beach, would they pause to put on a rubber bandy and then strip it off after the affair and chuck it on the beach? If so, these are some cool headed muthafookers. My understanding is that in SEA, it is common knowledge that men prefer to ride bare back. Just a thought.

[joebrown]

Verdict 24 Dec? How convenient; Christmas eve for most westerners and a day when the world may overlook the verdict?

Although i believe the B2 have been stitched up in this case, i am not believing the consiracy theory that the date for the verdict has been "conveniently " picked

1. Thailand doesnt officially celebrate xmas, so xmas eve is just another work day

2. In a lot of western countries xmas even isnt a public holiday either

3. Its a Thursday this year so its a business day

In a similar manner in Thailand i regularly schedule "business things" in work for thai or buddhist holidays not realising the significance of the date until i am told

The defense have a very strong case, or the prosecution has a very weak case which ever you look at it and hopefully they will be aquitted, bu the sad thing in following this case on TV are some of the sick/twisted conspiracy theories some member have put forward, so please dont start another one regarding the verdict date

I often 'Like' a lot of your posts on TVF, but honestly, I 'Don't Like' this one, particularly the use of the words "sick/twisted conspiracy theories' relating to the 24th December trial verdict date. Why, because there are many TVF members who have followed this investigation/trial far closer than I have, and we are all of the opinion that if it wasn't for the fact that Andy Hall was 'Tweeting' from the courtroom, along with sparse newsfeeds etc almost no coherent accurate information was available until the B2 gave their testimonies on the final 2 days.

Maybe you forgot the note-taking restrictions imposed by the trial judge(s) at the outset, and the dearth of news about the ongoing trial by the Thai English language newspapers, in stark contrast to the early days of investigation following the murders, and then the arrest of the 2 scapegoats. This case bears the classic elements of 'cover-up' in all areas, and whlst you are entitled to an opinion, I think you are wrong in your supposition that the Thai Establishment hasn't conspired to 'bury' the news of the trial verdict by declaring it on 24th December.

[Baerboxer]

Thailand has lost all crdibility in this situation. Now it comes down to how do they lie their way out to save face in thailand only. The rest of the worid has accepted that the men charged are innocent and justice isnot being served.

How can you, or anyone else know what the "rest of the world" think and accept?

Apart from Thailand. Myanmar and the UK, the media interest won't be that great.

What is apparent is the total lack of professional competence within the RTP, from CSI, to following up and questioning witnesses and suspects, through to presenting evidence. Completely shambolic and clueless.

What they seem to be good at is allowing "interested" parties to direct their actions towards a conclusion that satisfies those parties and might appear to solve the case. They can't get away with it now as easily as the used to. But, they won't give a fig about what anyone outside of Thailand thinks; or anyone inside who isn't Thai and influential.

Feel for the bereaved families. The way this has all been conducted must make a nightmare scenario even worse.

You most probably haven't followed what the press in Australia, NZ, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany and almost the rest of Europe have written or shown on TV have said about it?

I haven't read what the rest of the world have written about this case, but the absolute majority have more or less leaned towards what most of us here are saying, they are scapegoats.

What you need to know is that most press from the western world still awaits solid and not fabricated evidence against the two poor guys before stating a definit opinion, but none have been presented to the court, alas, they haven't done it, the "world" knows about it.

There's thousands of articles written about this heinous crime in a lot of countries.

No I haven't. Neither do I think Europe and the Antipodes represents the "rest of the world"; or that the views expressed in the press represent what the "rest of the world" thinks. They represent the views of their owners and editorial staff a la Murdoch.

You haven't read what's been written, but know what "the absolute majority have leaned towards" and that "there's thousands of articles" ? Hmmm. How long have you had these psychic powers? Win lots of lotteries then?

The media will milk this for a while. One or two may make genuine attempts at presenting all sides and all facts, as known. Then like all those other unsolved or miscarriages of justice, it will fade away.

The cavalry ain't gonna charge in and put everything to right. Not here, and not in most other countries these days.

[manhood]

Thailand on my opinion loose face while NOT DROPPING CHARGES as there is no evidence!

And if Thailand want to be recognized of a country doing a fair and legal trial they can present the world as a country running by accepted international standards they have to drop the while case!!!!!!!!!

[Baerboxer]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

Unfortunately, as most know, the BiB aren't renowned for the integrity of their comments.

Once your caught lying, contradicting one another, multiple times on multiple cases, credibility is lost.

We'll never no the truth in this case, and should the BiB actually tell us, no one would believe them anymore.

[ronwparker]

This case is only harming the image of Thailand and it's so called Jusice system-The RTP are well known to be corrupt and use torture to extract confessions by torture!!!

[lucky11]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

"police said" According to the governments own forensics specialist, lady with the multi color hair, there was not enough DNA evidence due improper handling procedures. There does not seem to be enough physical evidence to back either party's claims.

If there is, as Pornthip stated not enough evidence to substantiate either parties claims then neither can use this as evidence, so it can be eliminated as being of any use or relevance to the case.

She is not interested in what it means - all this glorified primadonna is trying to do is rubbish the RTA's forensics performance as she was irked at being overlooked.

If she is as good as she claims then you have to believe that the evidence relating to DNA on the hoe has been compromised and doesn't prove anything to anyone rendering it inconclusive.

[bark]

If the Defense does manage to get these two innocent man off; will the police start to look for the real, KILLERS ?

[arrowsdawdle]

I can't see it hapening.....too much loss of face?

Look for them to get shot trying to escape. Case closed.

[smedly]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

as has been seen throughout this case - all dna claims made/presented by prosecution and tests carried out by the police are extremely unreliable by any standard I am aware of, that is a fact

The defense were also unable to verify original samples, it is extremely unlikely if not impossible to use up samples claimed to have been taken from the victims body, also a fact

Confusion over what phone was found where and who it belonged to is also unreliable, a phone was found belonging to David (I believe that to be true) where it was found is another thing entirely

Claimed Forced confessions also unreliable because the accused had no legal council, the first question any prosecutor will ask police - when the accused were arrested and interviewed did they have legal council - no, then that evidence cannot be used in court - fact (even in Thailand)

There is not one thing from the police and prosecution that I can honestly say is reliable and I am trying to be as neutral and objective as I possibly can, IMO this case should never have gone to court, I tell it as I see it

One thing that continues to disturb me is how a certain person early on that morning at the crime scene knew the hoe was the murder weapon - knew it had been moved - and had the person that moved it put it back where he had first found it that morning, this was verified by that person in a statement to police

There is more but the above is enough for me

[seahorse]

If the glove doesn't fit, than you must acquit.

If they didn't touch the hoe, then let them go.

[arrowsdawdle]

In the OP photo the perp finger pointing is being manipulated according to the BIB script.

[yellowboat]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

"police said" According to the governments own forensics specialist, lady with the multi color hair, there was not enough DNA evidence due improper handling procedures. There does not seem to be enough physical evidence to back either party's claims.

If there is, as Pornthip stated not enough evidence to substantiate either parties claims then neither can use this as evidence, so it can be eliminated as being of any use or relevance to the case.

She is not interested in what it means - all this glorified primadonna is trying to do is rubbish the RTA's forensics performance as she was irked at being overlooked.

If she is as good as she claims then you have to believe that the evidence relating to DNA on the hoe has been compromised and doesn't prove anything to anyone rendering it inconclusive.

And is that not a good enough reason why they should be acquitted ? Their verbal testimony could be construed as made under duress from threats of further torture.

[lucky11]

This link is to a search made on Washingtons Posts website.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/newssearch/?query=Koh+Tao

There's nothing said about confession to the reporter of WP, but if Lucky11 has a link, show it and I will beg you pardon.

Article purporting their innocence by Terrence McCoy Oct 10th 2014

Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants’ purported confession, they said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge — despite the fact police said their sperm was found on a condom linked to the scene.

Unfortunately, as most know, the BiB aren't renowned for the integrity of their comments.

Once your caught lying, contradicting one another, multiple times on multiple cases, credibility is lost.

We'll never no the truth in this case, and should the BiB actually tell us, no one would believe them anymore.

The RTP didn't write this article it was a reporter trying to prove their innocence and apparently this was 'said' by them as they questioned the fact that the police found their semen on the outside of the condom and fell into the trap of admitting that they raped Hannah just to show that their semen couldn't have been found on the condom as they hadn't used them!!

I agree that nobody should believe the B2 now as they have lied so often and contradicted themselves.