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Grover

Fully Enlightened Monks

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I would not want to classify someone as totally enlightened or not. I don't like classifications. I will just say that I have met some wonderful spiritual teachers. I have no desire to classify them.

I wonder if there is any such thing as total enlightenment or if it is just a legend. There has been some discussion of ancient texts here and what they have to say about the stages of enlightenment. I have no reason to believe the people who wrote those texts knew any more than people writting spiritual books today. Some of them were probably very wise, some of them were probably not.

I think sometimes we make this stuff more complicated than it needs to be. I think spiritual life can be pretty simple. For most people, if you follow basic ethical principals and meditate regularly, your life will get better. If you travel around and talk to spritual people you will have some wonderful experiences. It is just that simple.

Life is good. We will never understand much. The more we love the happier we will be. And so on. Easy to understand.

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Hi Grover

Samana Potirak of Asoke sect has answered someone who asked him that he is a Pra Potisat ,Buddha-to-be,( Remember he ANSWERED, not CLAIMED or BOASTED ). Visit and observe him if he is the enlightened one you're looking for. me too

Of course he was ousted from Thai Buddhist Society. But if you 're looking for content, not form. He may be one.

IMO, the reason why the enlightened one doesn't tell others may be of this analogy. Was there any brightest man with highest human I.Q telling others he is. And what will be a response towards him. I may be wrong. Sorry if my English doesn't make a full sense to you because I'm Thai.

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I would not want to classify someone as totally enlightened or not. I don't like classifications. I will just say that I have met some wonderful spiritual teachers. I have no desire to classify them.

but you have classified them as being 'wonderful' have you not? :o

for me, the more totally enlightened the more totally wonderful :D

but seriously, we are basically talking about the same thing, arn't we? just your words are more fuzzy and warm.

I think a correct understanding of the first noble truth is important to distinguish the fake gurus from the fully enlightened ones & everything in between, as well as some self awareness for our own spiritual development.

Edited by Grover

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Hi Grover

Samana Potirak of Asoke sect has answered someone who asked him that he is a Pra Potisat ,Buddha-to-be,( Remember he ANSWERED, not CLAIMED or BOASTED ). Visit and observe him if he is the enlightened one you're looking for. me too

Of course he was ousted from Thai Buddhist Society. But if you 're looking for content, not form. He may be one.

IMO, the reason why the enlightened one doesn't tell others may be of this analogy. Was there any brightest man with highest human I.Q telling others he is. And what will be a response towards him. I may be wrong. Sorry if my English doesn't make a full sense to you because I'm Thai.

Your english is fine phloiwang, no worries. Do you know where Samana Potirak is staying nowdays? I might visit him. But why was he ousted? Sounds serious.

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As far as I Know, he mostly stays at Rachtani Asoke, Ubol Province in Isaan. But he often / always comes to Santi Asoke every Sunday. Santi Asoke is at Soi 44, Nawamintr Road, Bangkapi District, Bangkok. He is over 70 now. But I don't know it's too far from where you live.

Thank you Camerata for your information provided. :o

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A few years ago in Bangkok, I met a monk who was waiting for his enlightenment. He seemed like a good man but did not have so much energy.

Another time in Bangkok I studied for Tia Chi with Thai man called Tew Bunnag. I dunno if he was ever a monk but he seemed to have some special aura about him. He has also written an English language book about his thoughts on life in Thailand. Not sure if he still teaches but 4 years ago he was at the Dance centre on Sukhumwit just off soi 33.

The person who left the most lasting impression on me I met in Austria at the Wok 'n' Tok restaurant in Eisenstadt. His name is Hanne and he had a lot of love for people and a lot of power.

From my own experience there definately needs to be more people like this in the world !

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I enjoyed reading the responses to the topic and it's too bad that the discussion ended over 10 years ago.

I would also love to meet an Arahant. I realize it might be difficult but maybe someone could help me. After all (as they said) G-d works in mysterious ways.

I plan to travel in Thailand and Burma in the end of this year. In fact I will be taken Goenka's 10 days mediation retreat there. It would be remarkable if I could also have an opportunity to visit a true Arahant and pay respect to him.

I wanted to send a private message to Grover asking about the result of his quest (if he met the one he was looking for) but sadly his "Message" option is disabled.

If someone would like to contact me with any info which could help me with my wish but would not be appropriate or wise to put it on a public forum please send me a private message. It will be greatly appreciated.

May all beings will be happy. May all beings will be liberated.

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C'mon now! Let's be sensible. If anyone were 'convincingly' declared to be an Arahant, there would be an enormous mass of locals plus tourists descending on the guy. There would be utter congestion. ?

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In order to arrive at such a state Arahants would have extinguished any attachment to Ego.

Thus, not only would they not have a need for displays of adoration and/or respect, but they would also have no desire to declare such an attainment.

 

Perhaps if anything, such beings would either live a life as a recluse or become involved in the teaching of practice. 

 

Possibly a better avenue would be to treat all living beings with a high level of respect.

After all we are all capable of Awakening.

 

What is your reason for meeting an Arahant?

Edited by rockyysdt

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Welcome back to the forum, Rocky. How is life?

 

I'm surprised this forum has become so quiet recently. It seems we have exhausted the intellectual discussions and all that remains to be done now is to sit down quietly and meditate. 😉

 

Your comment on the situation of Arahants reminds me of Gautama's initial predicament after his enlightenment. Here's one interpretation of that story.

 

"At first, the Buddha was reluctant to teach because what he had realized could not be communicated in words. Only through discipline and clarity of mind would delusions fall away and could one experience the Great Reality. Listeners without that direct experience would be stuck in conceptualizations and would surely misunderstand everything he said. Still, compassion persuaded him to make the attempt to transmit what he had realized."
 

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9 hours ago, VincentRJ said:


Welcome back to the forum, Rocky. How is life?

 

I'm surprised this forum has become so quiet recently. It seems we have exhausted the intellectual discussions and all that remains to be done now is to sit down quietly and meditate. 😉

 

Your comment on the situation of Arahants reminds me of Gautama's initial predicament after his enlightenment. Here's one interpretation of that story.

 

"At first, the Buddha was reluctant to teach because what he had realized could not be communicated in words. Only through discipline and clarity of mind would delusions fall away and could one experience the Great Reality. Listeners without that direct experience would be stuck in conceptualizations and would surely misunderstand everything he said. Still, compassion persuaded him to make the attempt to transmit what he had realized."
 

Thank you Vincent.

 

I've been lost in the wilderness.

The clutches of the conditioned state, so powerful, it's like attempting to break free from the forces of gravity, or attempting escape from the event horizon of a blackhole.

 

The conditioned state which locks us into habitual behavior.

A state which throws roadblocks to effective regular practice.

 

As always you are very insightful.

The answer has always been regular practice.

My view is that the only purpose of Raven's desire is to fuel his motivation.

But dwelling in debate of Buddhist doctrine and/or adoration of Arahants can become a roadblock in itself as it can support Ego.

 

I think learning dharma and rubbing shoulders with Arahants may help with initial encouragement but only until practice becomes self sustaining.

Then real guidance can be sought in order to overcome blockages arising out of the practice itself.

 

 

Edited by rockyysdt

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On 10/16/2006 at 3:45 PM, Grover said:

:o I think the point is not what he does but how he does it; ie. with 100% mindfulness.

I havent experienced any spiritual 'breakthroughs', & I only know about Nirvarna from what I have read or hear from others. Nevertheless, I believe the Buddha achieved what he said he did & I think others have too. I don't think my idea of Nirvarna is *overly* distorted. Actually the Buddha did describe enlightenment (using analogy) as being a fire burning out because its fuel was exhausted. Its quite a powerful analogy.

Thanks to the last few posters for all the valuable information.

That said he was a great man but hated Thaksin and collected gold to give to the government to help reduce Thailand's IMF debt. Great , holy but naieve I'd say. His temple is a truly wonderful place with purposeful; monks ,nothing to sell and a haven for wildlife. 

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I find the dictionary gives a very flimsy description of enlighten not much to contemplate on.

I was told that some mad people walking around you are enlightened just that they didn't realize they are enlightened. ( i said "mad" not psychotic.)

Last but not least, I often wonder when I choose "BurgerKing" instead of Mcdonald because BurgerKing gives you better quality bread" would that be consider enlightenment in certain aspect.

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