Bread making fundamentals

[MaeJoMTB]

The hotter the oven, the faster you bake the crust and stop expansion. If you add steam it keeps the crust soft and the bread can expand for a longer time.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I use a machine which can make two small or one large loaf. These two have just been removed from my bread maker, they are light and airy, they stay fresh for a few days too (not that they ever last that long.20160131_201253.jpg

Nice, try adding some seeds or top it off with poppy seeds to take it to the next level. Sometimes I add caraway seed to bread. It add a nice flavor, especially with cheese.

[billd766]

Seems to be 2 schools of thought on oven temp. Some say hot 220 degrees c....others say 150-180 degrees?

From my own experience using a table top fan assisted oven I have found that the hotter the oven the harder the top crust is.

I am using a recipe "borrowed" from here called Dario's buns (Sorry Dario) but I have modified it to suit me.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/864523-keeping-bread-tasty/

I have tried quite a few recipes from online but at the moment this one works for me.

I am finding that and my oven is quite small (42L) which even on the bottom shelf is still quite close to the top element. I'll give Ur recipe a go

This is the oven I bought in December from Makro for 3,590 baht.

It is also 42L and the internal dimensions are 43x32x27 cm. It cooks a whole leg of lamb and I suppose about 25cm between the 2 heater bars. The thermostat is reasonably accurate and it is fan assisted.

Dario s buns v03.doc

[Kenny202]

Seems to be 2 schools of thought on oven temp. Some say hot 220 degrees c....others say 150-180 degrees?

From my own experience using a table top fan assisted oven I have found that the hotter the oven the harder the top crust is.

I am using a recipe "borrowed" from here called Dario's buns (Sorry Dario) but I have modified it to suit me.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/864523-keeping-bread-tasty/

I have tried quite a few recipes from online but at the moment this one works for me.

I am finding that and my oven is quite small (42L) which even on the bottom shelf is still quite close to the top element. I'll give Ur recipe a go

This is the oven I bought in December from Makro for 3,590 baht.

It is also 42L and the internal dimensions are 43x32x27 cm. It cooks a whole leg of lamb and I suppose about 25cm between the 2 heater bars. The thermostat is reasonably accurate and it is fan assisted.

Dario s buns v03.doc

instruction manual cover page.jpg

I been tempted to buy a bigger one for a while... but can't fault my small Zanussi and it heats up so fast too. Robinsons have a bigger 2 shelf 50L one on special now for about what u paid. So tempted even now :-) By the way, where did u get Ur leg of lamb? Was it any good and approx how much it cost? Edited January 31, 2016 by Kenny202

[billd766]

This is the oven I bought in December from Makro for 3,590 baht.

It is also 42L and the internal dimensions are 43x32x27 cm. It cooks a whole leg of lamb and I suppose about 25cm between the 2 heater bars. The thermostat is reasonably accurate and it is fan assisted.

Dario s buns v03.doc

instruction manual cover page.jpg

I been tempted to buy a bigger one for a while... but can't fault my small Zanussi and it heats up so fast too. Robinsons have a bigger 2 shelf 50L one on special now for about what u paid. So tempted even now :-) By the way, where did u get Ur leg of lamb? Was it any good and approx how much it cost?

Snipped to let me reply.

I live in rural Khampaeng Phet and I went 125 km down to Nakhon Sawan on a 90 day report run and found it in Makro. It is also available at LotusTesco there. Unfortunately it is not available in KPP though if I make a special order at Makro I may be able to get it as a special order after a period of time.

The lamb (frozen from Australia) cost somewhere around 800 baht for a 2 1/2 kg leg. Having said that I ended up with enough lamb for about 10 servings.

[billd766]

I put my flour, yeast, salt, sugar and butter into a food mixer for a few minutes before changing the paddles for dough hooks.

I then add warm water and mash it all about until it looks about right then put into a plastic bowl for a couple of hours to let it rise. When it is over twice its size, I flour the board, tip the dough out and use a couple of plastic paddles to get it more or less into shape. I don't knead the dough. I then cut it into 6 pieces and put the dough into 6 spring-foil baking tins on baking parchment.

Chuck them into a preheated fan assisted oven at about 150C for 25 to 30 minutes and then I have six rolls cooked to my taste.

Too hot and the top burns, too long and I can use them as cannon balls.

Have a great week.

Try adding a bit of baking powder. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_powder)

"......used for increasing the volume and lightening the texture of baked goods."

How much baking powder per 1 kg of flour?

[vogie]

I use a machine which can make two small or one large loaf. These two have just been removed from my bread maker, they are light and airy, they stay fresh for a few days too (not that they ever last that long.20160131_201253.jpg

Nice, try adding some seeds or top it off with poppy seeds to take it to the next level. Sometimes I add caraway seed to bread. It add a nice flavor, especially with cheese.

I will give it a try next time I go shopping, thanks.

[Turkleton]

My bread is nice and rising and all that but still a heavy sort of loaf. I'd really like to get tgat lovely light airy texture

Airy like this one?

Than you may want a "no knead bread"

This is made from a wheat flour with 10-15% rye flour mixture.

Photo taken from my regular "2-weeks batch"

Edited February 3, 2016 by Turkleton

[CLW]

Hey guys,

What kind of flour you buy for your bread making.

I'm usually using this one in the picture below.

Just wondering about the price.

65 baht for 1 kg at my local Big C.

I think I saw Swan Brand at Tops, 1kg for 47 Baht or so.

Just not sure and wondering because usually Tops is more expensive than Big C

[Kenny202]

Makro have bread flour for 34 baht same brand as photo. Swan I think in a green bag. I thought it was crap at first but was my technique. I used one on the other guys advice. 1st prove after kneading about an hour or until doubled. Them shape and put in Ur loaf tins or tray. Leave about 10 mins. Slash tops, spray salted water on top and in oven about 40 degrees c for 2nd rise. Use your thermostat knob and hear the click. U just want the oven slightly higher than room temp. Normally about an hour but leave in until you think can't rise anymore. Then crank heat to 180 for 30 min. Perfection for me. I've found an initial good 10 min kneading beneficial

[billd766]

Makro have bread flour for 34 baht same brand as photo. Swan I think in a green bag. I thought it was crap at first but was my technique. I used one on the other guys advice. 1st prove after kneading about an hour or until doubled. Them shape and put in Ur loaf tins or tray. Leave about 10 mins. Slash tops, spray salted water on top and in oven about 40 degrees c for 2nd rise. Use your thermostat knob and hear the click. U just want the oven slightly higher than room temp. Normally about an hour but leave in until you think can't rise anymore. Then crank heat to 180 for 30 min. Perfection for me. I've found an initial good 10 min kneading beneficial

I usually use white swan bread flour from Makro but for the last 2 batches I managed to get some dark rye flour in a 454 gram bag which I mixed with 1kg of swan bread flour which was a bit of a stronger mix than it should have been.

Then I used the recipe below and I get a good result but my problem is cutting the flour into 6 equal pieces so some rolls are bigger than the others.

I need to make a new batch in a couple of days so I will take a few photos and post them.

The recipe that I use was one by Dario a rew months ago and I have modified it to suit me.

KS505 is a bread improver and can be found at Makro for about 126 baht a kilo

Dario s buns my version in word.doc

Edited March 30, 2016 by billd766

[Kenny202]

Makro have bread flour for 34 baht same brand as photo. Swan I think in a green bag. I thought it was crap at first but was my technique. I used one on the other guys advice. 1st prove after kneading about an hour or until doubled. Them shape and put in Ur loaf tins or tray. Leave about 10 mins. Slash tops, spray salted water on top and in oven about 40 degrees c for 2nd rise. Use your thermostat knob and hear the click. U just want the oven slightly higher than room temp. Normally about an hour but leave in until you think can't rise anymore. Then crank heat to 180 for 30 min. Perfection for me. I've found an initial good 10 min kneading beneficial

I usually use white swan bread flour from Makro but for the last 2 batches I managed to get some dark rye flour in a 454 gram bag which I mixed with 1kg of swan bread flour which was a bit of a stronger mix than it should have been.

Then I used the recipe below and I get a good result but my problem is cutting the flour into 6 equal pieces so some rolls are bigger than the others.

I need to make a new batch in a couple of days so I will take a few photos and post them.

The recipe that I use was one by Dario a rew months ago and I have modified it to suit me.

KS505 is a bread improver and can be found at Makro for about 126 baht a kilo

Dario s buns my version in word.doc

after you done the initial prove, weigh the total mixture. Then divide that by 6 and weigh the individual rolls. A lot quicker than what it sounds

[billd766]

Makro have bread flour for 34 baht same brand as photo. Swan I think in a green bag. I thought it was crap at first but was my technique. I used one on the other guys advice. 1st prove after kneading about an hour or until doubled. Them shape and put in Ur loaf tins or tray. Leave about 10 mins. Slash tops, spray salted water on top and in oven about 40 degrees c for 2nd rise. Use your thermostat knob and hear the click. U just want the oven slightly higher than room temp. Normally about an hour but leave in until you think can't rise anymore. Then crank heat to 180 for 30 min. Perfection for me. I've found an initial good 10 min kneading beneficial

I usually use white swan bread flour from Makro but for the last 2 batches I managed to get some dark rye flour in a 454 gram bag which I mixed with 1kg of swan bread flour which was a bit of a stronger mix than it should have been.

Then I used the recipe below and I get a good result but my problem is cutting the flour into 6 equal pieces so some rolls are bigger than the others.

I need to make a new batch in a couple of days so I will take a few photos and post them.

The recipe that I use was one by Dario a rew months ago and I have modified it to suit me.

KS505 is a bread improver and can be found at Makro for about 126 baht a kilo

Dario s buns my version in word.doc

after you done the initial prove, weigh the total mixture. Then divide that by 6 and weigh the individual rolls. A lot quicker than what it sounds

To much hassle for me. I just put the dough onto a floured slab and use my Mk1 eyeball to size it and cut the dough into 6 pieces using a sharp knife. I then use a couple of spatulas to pat it into a roll shape and put it into a spring-foil tin on top of some parchment paper.

It maybe that I need some new glasses but I eat the roll anyway not withstanding the shape. If it tastes OK why worry what it looks like.

Edited March 31, 2016 by billd766

[CLW]

Makro have bread flour for 34 baht same brand as photo. Swan I think in a green bag. I thought it was crap at first but was my technique. I used one on the other guys advice. 1st prove after kneading about an hour or until doubled. Them shape and put in Ur loaf tins or tray. Leave about 10 mins. Slash tops, spray salted water on top and in oven about 40 degrees c for 2nd rise. Use your thermostat knob and hear the click. U just want the oven slightly higher than room temp. Normally about an hour but leave in until you think can't rise anymore. Then crank heat to 180 for 30 min. Perfection for me. I've found an initial good 10 min kneading beneficial

Thanks, I will have a look at Makro

[CLW]

One of my basic bread recipes, it's called North American Pan bread.

Sponge:

100g Flour

0,27g dry yeast

1g Salt

56g Water

Mix and let it rest for 6 hours at room temperature, cover the bowl with cellophane.

Dough:

300g Flour

2,4g dry yeast

7,2g Salt

184g water

+ sponge

Mix 3 min slow and 7 min medium speed

Let it rest 2 hours, transfer into baking pan.

(You might deflate the dough or use the ball pieces method. I just cut the loaf before baking.)

Let it rest another 1 hour or until you can see an increase of volume.

Preheat the oven 250°C

Bake at 190°C for about 50 min

You can modify this bread in many ways. Add nuts, dry fruit, chocolate, seeds, whole wheat flour.

You can also add 10% rye flour in the sponge for a better taste and color, just add more water then when preparing the sponge.

[CLW]

The Pan bread with added rye flour and Sunflower+Pumpkin Seeds

[billd766]

Latest batch of rolls.

First rise and 1 piece cut out

in the baking tins

Second rise

after baking

[phutoie2]

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

[billd766]

BILLYBURI - WIN_20160202_142938.JPGBILLYBURI - WIN_20160218_085602.JPGP_20150921_144218_HDR.jpg

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

Now that makes me jealous.

At home we only have a Thai kitchen so I work of the dining table in the house and use a table top oven that I bought from Makro. OTOH there is only me to satisfy so my standards are not of the quality of yours.

I generally bake 6 rolls at a time which lasts me 4 or 5 days. I used to bake a couple of loaves but by day 3 the were starting to go off so I now stay with rolls.

I would love to be as good a baker as you but it isn't really in my skill set. Yet.

[Kenny202]

BILLYBURI - WIN_20160202_142938.JPGBILLYBURI - WIN_20160218_085602.JPGP_20150921_144218_HDR.jpg

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

Now that makes me jealous.

At home we only have a Thai kitchen so I work of the dining table in the house and use a table top oven that I bought from Makro. OTOH there is only me to satisfy so my standards are not of the quality of yours.

I generally bake 6 rolls at a time which lasts me 4 or 5 days. I used to bake a couple of loaves but by day 3 the were starting to go off so I now stay with rolls.

I would love to be as good a baker as you but it isn't really in my skill set. Yet.

I make loaves and eat fresh . The rest I slice up, put 3 slices per bag in a little freezer bag and freeze them. Straight out of the freezer and in the microwave for 30 secs and fresh as the day it was baked

[ExpatOilWorker]

BILLYBURI - WIN_20160202_142938.JPGBILLYBURI - WIN_20160218_085602.JPGP_20150921_144218_HDR.jpg

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

You care to share your recipe?

Do you by any chance sell your bread?

[adammike]

Except for a few special varieties, whole wheat flour is necessarily brown. So why would it be dyed? The reason some white flour is dyed brown is to make it look like whole wheat flour.

Don't think many places use 100% wholewheat flour.

About 20% is the maximum I can put in wholemeal bread.

(Maybe If you use another 20 chemicals you could use more)

I don't see what relevance this comment has to bleached and unbleached flour. Anyway, unbleached flour can be bought both at Yok's and at Bakersmart. At Bakersmart they repack it in plastic bags so it has no brand name. At Yok's it's all their imported European flour.

And if you're willing to do a little extra work, you can definitely make a 100% whole wheat bread that's not bitter. Look up Peter Reinhart's recipes for whole wheat bread on the internet.

I got a couple of his books from Kinokuniya at the Emporium though it's

moved over the road now,his whole grain breads,and the bread makers appreh but that's not going to

help the OP who wants French read,I use the no knead long rise method though you may need a air-conditioned place toplease the dough to rise,

All over the neighbouring countries of Thailand Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia they make any sell French bread so I would check up some of the ex-pat

wed sites there,I would guess the ambient temperature of the space you are making the bread in will dictate what you can do,

[billd766]

BILLYBURI - WIN_20160202_142938.JPGBILLYBURI - WIN_20160218_085602.JPGP_20150921_144218_HDR.jpg

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

You care to share your recipe?

Do you by any chance sell your bread?

There are very few farangs where I live in rural Khampaeng Phet though I sometimes give rolls and bread to my mate who lives some 20km away. Unfortunately his fridge/freezer is full at the moment so I just make them for myself.

I will make a couple of small loaves tomorrow as I have only 1 roll left.

The recipe that I use (pictures are somewhere above this post) is one I found here by a guy called Dario a while ago and I have changed it to suit me now.

Here it is.

Dario s buns my version.doc

[jaiyenyen]

Thanks for the recipe Billd (and Dario).

How much melted butter do you use? It's not in the recipe.

[billd766]

Thanks for the recipe Billd (and Dario).

How much melted butter do you use? It's not in the recipe.

None.

[phutoie2]

BILLYBURI - WIN_20160202_142938.JPGBILLYBURI - WIN_20160218_085602.JPGP_20150921_144218_HDR.jpg

Bild, good effort, you'll get there. I am a retired baker who still dabbles a bit. Very hot in my bakery this time of year, I find after pre mixing to put the dough in the fridge for a bit. Use plenty of water, most of my doughs are 62/65% hydration.

You care to share your recipe?

Do you by any chance sell your bread?

yep, all my bread is for sale, my customers are mainly from Europe/USA/Aus with the odd Chinese Thai families. The recipes are basic and likely covered in this topic. Just bread flour, instant yeast, salt, water and I prefer butter instead of oils. I make dough in 2 to 3 kg batches and its probably in the technique where I would be different to others. I weigh everything in metric, use water at 18c, mix & knead thoroughly. I think that bread should have a good crumb. I have a long fermentation time, 2hrs+ and make sure the dough is fully proofed before going in the oven. I warm the gas oven up to 200c, and mostly bake everything at around 190c.

My wife bakes all the bread as I am usually at the work bench dough making, cutting shaping etc. My rolls are 90g, farmhouse loves/rounds 780g and baguettes from 150-300g.

This is my typical English farm house loaf:

1kg bread or AP flour

14g instant yeast

18g salt

40g butter

610-620ml water

experiment with the amount of water, maybe more.

That should make 2 loaves/rounds

[BritManToo]

^^

Forget the butter, it serves no purpose, and add some sugar for the yeast to eat, else it probably won't rise.

2hrs is a long fermentation time? Mine is often 2-4 days, because I can't be bothered to keep mixing dough..

Edited April 14, 2016 by BritManToo

[phutoie2]

^^

Forget the butter, it serves no purpose, and add some sugar for the yeast to eat, else it probably won't rise.

2hrs is a long fermentation time? Mine is often 2-4 days, because I can't be bothered to keep mixing dough..

fat is incorporated into bread to keep it soft and make it last longer. I have never heard of adding sugar to the modern brands of instant yeast, it feeds off the nutrients in the flour. Its not necessary with dry active yeast either. Two hours is more than enough time, with Allisons easy bake yeast you can even use just one rise. Unfortunately I have run out of it and it's back to the Vietnamese stuff.

[BritManToo]

^^

Forget the butter, it serves no purpose, and add some sugar for the yeast to eat, else it probably won't rise.

2hrs is a long fermentation time? Mine is often 2-4 days, because I can't be bothered to keep mixing dough..

fat is incorporated into bread to keep it soft and make it last longer. I have never heard of adding sugar to the modern brands of instant yeast, it feeds off the nutrients in the flour. Its not necessary with dry active yeast either. Two hours is more than enough time, with Allisons easy bake yeast you can even use just one rise. Unfortunately I have run out of it and it's back to the Vietnamese stuff.

I use Fermipan Red (low sugar yeast)

I've tried it with and without, works better with sugar.

I only use 1 rise now too.

As for fats, I've tried butter, margarine and olive oil.

Neither seemed to make much difference, but as I eat the same day I bake, I guess it doesn't matter.

[CLW]

The latest breads I made


Green tea bread


Black Sesame Chocolate Swirl


Mixed Sourdough Wheat Rye Bread


Pumpkin scones