Investing 5 million baht in CM

[Colabamumbai]

Owning a single condo can be great, but expecting to make money is not.

If you do not speak fluent Thai and you have a wife involved in a big investment things more than not do not turn out Roses...

[chiang mai]

1. Actually Government is trying to make Thailand MORE attractive for tourists. They just making it worse for those living here for 10-15k per month not contributing to economy at all.

2. Yes Chinese tourists do not rent condos. They buy them.

3. What you mean by filthy ? For me Pattaya is filthy, CM is getting less and less filthy.

Chinese tourists aren't buying condominiums....

You wanna bet!

tourists???

Yup! Mrs CM used to work for Chedi/Antanara Hotel where there's a high guest count of Chinese visitors. She reports that wealthier Chinese come and stay for seven/ten days, specifically to buy property and that some of the agents are a familiar sight in the hotel - plenty of blue plates to be seen in the garage below. Another report mentions a wealthy Chinese guest who walked into the boutique shop at the hotel and blew 200k Baht in minutes and had it all shipped back home!

[Si Thea01]

This would be the last avenue that you should seek advice from. If you need to go to a forum for financial advice then you shouldn't invest. But just in case I have this great investment plan that gives 15 percent return PA, payable monthly.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Tax on income etc????

See a good lawyer first .

Is there any such creature here?

I do realize this is a bit of a pedantic little pet-peeve of mine, but it's staggering the things that Farang believe requires 'a lawyer'.

Tax does not require a lawyer, it requires a chick with some experience in accounting and filling in forms. These creatures are everywhere. They make good wives too, actually.

BTW any expenses related to making that income such as those for maintenance, renovations, electricity and what not can be deducted of course, so it helps to keep track of that.

[louse1953]

What about a Chinese resturant.

[louse1953]

OK, then let's say a guy has a Thai wife he trusts, so he intends to put the condos in her name and rent them out.

Why would ya?

[strabel23]

Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time? What are your sources?

IMF has stated Thailand's GDP will rise in the coming year.

1. you are about 4 years+ too late.

2, Air BnB is in a tough position in Thailand - see news. also many AirBnB falangs were busted by immigration for renting w/o work permit, not paying taxes, etc...

3. Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time.

4. consider other options; securities...

[louse1953]

1. you are about 4 years+ too late.

2, Air BnB is in a tough position in Thailand - see news. also many AirBnB falangs were busted by immigration for renting w/o work permit, not paying taxes, etc...

3. Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time.

4. consider other options; securities...

well... I partly agree with Oscar here

1. yes you are about 5 years too late - forget it

2. maybe BUT AirBnB is short term and you really need long term

3. well... it's true this is bad timing

4. no consider 'hunker down' and WAIT

I'm little lucky in that i bought condos 10 year ago but even i am selling most/ In about 5 years things will be better I hope but Thailand had changed under the Junta and we have to just tighten our belts. Good luck.

The Junta has just bought Thailand back to some form of reality,not the Disneyland of yesteryear.

[catman20]

ive owed land and houses here in Thailand in company name never had a problem do your accounts every year

[louse1953]

I don't wanna be an armchair economist, so I make it simple.

I look at what 200,000 can buy me in Toronto (apparently one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world) and Bangkok.

In both cities, 200,000k won't get me much, but at least in Canada I am in my own territory and even though there is property tax and higher maintenance fees I have a piece of mind regarding better construction and condos that won't fall apart in 10 years. Another big advantage over Bangkok is an extremely liquid market which in Bangkok just doesn't exist.

Speaking of, I bought my shoebox Toronto condo in 2010 and thought I bought at the top (apparently I did not). When I decided to move to Thailand in 2013 I literally rented my condo in 2 days. I had 50 people lining up to see it. Now, someone is paying my mortgage.

Would this happen in Bangkok? Not a chance. There are units sitting empty for years.

I have a condo in bangkok and your right it's empty so when I go down to bkk it's free for me. duh

your logic and reasoning escape me

So there for your condo is making no money,poor investment.

[Oscar2]

Chinese tourists aren't buying condominiums....

You wanna bet!

tourists???

Yup! Mrs CM used to work for Chedi/Antanara Hotel where there's a high guest count of Chinese visitors. She reports that wealthier Chinese come and stay for seven/ten days, specifically to buy property and that some of the agents are a familiar sight in the hotel - plenty of blue plates to be seen in the garage below. Another report mentions a wealthy Chinese guest who walked into the boutique shop at the hotel and blew 200k Baht in minutes and had it all shipped back home!

well the shopping spree does not surprise me one bit at all. in Bangkok, Chinese come for the weekend and are chauffeured to one Central mall in particular (i think the newest one) and they drop 500K in a single weekend often buying many gifts and they also take orders from friends back home. they seem to love the luxury and designer brands; men's shoes, ladies purses, wristwatches, perfumes, etc.

ever been to the bee products shop on Changmai Land? it is my guess that they are doing 60-80K in business per hour. it's quite a sight to see with all the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese queued up to hear the presentation, sampling of products, and then the shopping begins! it looks like each passenger on the bus drops 3-7K.

but the purchase of condominiums really surprises me.

[Oscar2]

Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time? What are your sources?

IMF has stated Thailand's GDP will rise in the coming year.

1. you are about 4 years+ too late.

2, Air BnB is in a tough position in Thailand - see news. also many AirBnB falangs were busted by immigration for renting w/o work permit, not paying taxes, etc...

3. Thailand's economy expected to be in very bad shape in the coming year. not a good time.

4. consider other options; securities...

uhhh.... renowned economists here and abroad. don't watch the news???

[MaeJoMTB]

Please share with us how we will all lose our condos " one way or another" in point form with explanations would be nice.

Civil war.

Happened in Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Cambodia. All in the recent past.

How many foreigners managed to retain their property after it was over? How many died of old age and never recovered anything?

[bangmai]

They actually built Arlington National Cemetery on land confiscated from the Lee Family.

[chiang mai]

You wanna bet!

tourists???

Yup! Mrs CM used to work for Chedi/Antanara Hotel where there's a high guest count of Chinese visitors. She reports that wealthier Chinese come and stay for seven/ten days, specifically to buy property and that some of the agents are a familiar sight in the hotel - plenty of blue plates to be seen in the garage below. Another report mentions a wealthy Chinese guest who walked into the boutique shop at the hotel and blew 200k Baht in minutes and had it all shipped back home!

well the shopping spree does not surprise me one bit at all. in Bangkok, Chinese come for the weekend and are chauffeured to one Central mall in particular (i think the newest one) and they drop 500K in a single weekend often buying many gifts and they also take orders from friends back home. they seem to love the luxury and designer brands; men's shoes, ladies purses, wristwatches, perfumes, etc.

ever been to the bee products shop on Changmai Land? it is my guess that they are doing 60-80K in business per hour. it's quite a sight to see with all the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese queued up to hear the presentation, sampling of products, and then the shopping begins! it looks like each passenger on the bus drops 3-7K.

but the purchase of condominiums really surprises me.

No I haven't been there but it doesn't surprise me, watching the behavior of the tour groups at Airport Mall and Central Festival is enough for me.

But if you think about it it's only logical, there's a lot of hot black money in China that needs a home, preferably somewhere outside of the mainland. It used to be that the casino's of Macau provided some opportunities to disguise those funds but alas no longer. So buying real estate in Thailand is a sensible alternative for those who can't or don't want to bury their money further West.

[bangmai]

Some is illegal money, but more is just people that don't trust their government the same way they don't trust their powdered milk producers. For their own security, they need a backup plan.

[LannaGuy]

Please share with us how we will all lose our condos " one way or another" in point form with explanations would be nice.

Civil war.

Happened in Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Cambodia. All in the recent past.

How many foreigners managed to retain their property after it was over? How many died of old age and never recovered anything?

you are suggesting that will happen here? anyway I have bought and sold nearly 20 condos over 10 years and I have not 'lost one way or another'. Things do change though and I have slimmed my portfolio way down as I age and bought a nice beautiful house (Usufruct, Will and PoA protected). Cheers

[sendintheclowns]

Tax on income etc????

See a good lawyer first .

Is there any such creature here?

I do realize this is a bit of a pedantic little pet-peeve of mine, but it's staggering the things that Farang believe requires 'a lawyer'.

Tax does not require a lawyer, it requires a chick with some experience in accounting and filling in forms. These creatures are everywhere. They make good wives toov, actually.

BTW any expenses related to making that income such as those for maintenance, renovations, electricity and what not can be deducted of course, so it helps to keep track of that.

Never forget the dictum 'you get what you pay for'.

I used a bookkeeper operating a home office, for years for my company. It was only when I switched to an accountant who had a full-time business, that I found out about some mistakes the bookkeeper made. Cost me tax, as she recorde my house in the company and under-recorded the cost of the land. Luckily, I had a young lawyer, who had qualified with an international firm and my new accountant to sort things out. When I sold off the house, they saved me 150,000 in tax, using some imaginative tax work. BTW, you must chose between deducting actual costs from rental income, or a fixed %. This is a once- in-a-life-time choice.

With all due respect, I have to ask you, 2 questions.

1. since you represent yourself as a sophisticated investor in Canada and in Latin America - how did you manage to get yourself in the fix where your wife owns the house. Did you not do DD? Anybody here at TV would have advised you that you can own the house and how to secure it in the event that the marriage breaks down.

2. For the type of investment decision you want to make now, should you not put a bit more work into it, rather than seeking advice from TV. We are an informed bunch, mostly. But, as a retired CPA, I read some daft ideas here too.

My advice is - buy that book recommended to you;

Go buy a 1/2 hour from an accountant with an established public practice.

If you don't feel confident that they are on the up and up, get a second opinion. 1/2 hour will cost you Cost you 2000-3000. Best money you will ever spend.

Sure hope things work out for you!

[bangmai]

Look at your own (wife's) "5 million house." Realistically what would it rent for? Multiply by 12 and divide by 5,000,000...then convert decimal to percent by multiplying by 100. That is your gross return. Cut that in half, and you will be close to net + some headaches and a monkey on your back. Selling it and buying condos won't be that much different.

[Oscar2]

tourists???

Yup! Mrs CM used to work for Chedi/Antanara Hotel where there's a high guest count of Chinese visitors. She reports that wealthier Chinese come and stay for seven/ten days, specifically to buy property and that some of the agents are a familiar sight in the hotel - plenty of blue plates to be seen in the garage below. Another report mentions a wealthy Chinese guest who walked into the boutique shop at the hotel and blew 200k Baht in minutes and had it all shipped back home!

well the shopping spree does not surprise me one bit at all. in Bangkok, Chinese come for the weekend and are chauffeured to one Central mall in particular (i think the newest one) and they drop 500K in a single weekend often buying many gifts and they also take orders from friends back home. they seem to love the luxury and designer brands; men's shoes, ladies purses, wristwatches, perfumes, etc.

ever been to the bee products shop on Changmai Land? it is my guess that they are doing 60-80K in business per hour. it's quite a sight to see with all the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese queued up to hear the presentation, sampling of products, and then the shopping begins! it looks like each passenger on the bus drops 3-7K.

but the purchase of condominiums really surprises me.

No I haven't been there but it doesn't surprise me, watching the behavior of the tour groups at Airport Mall and Central Festival is enough for me.

But if you think about it it's only logical, there's a lot of hot black money in China that needs a home, preferably somewhere outside of the mainland. It used to be that the casino's of Macau provided some opportunities to disguise those funds but alas no longer. So buying real estate in Thailand is a sensible alternative for those who can't or don't want to bury their money further West.

yes i suppose you are right. i had heard on the business channel that the Chinese with real money were buying up properties in California like crazy (in spite of the high property taxes), but that had cooled off considerably now that their economy has gone soft. saw a similar show on BBC Business News where they were doing the same in London? or perhaps the suburbs somewhere.

[Airalee]

After a number of years, most of the condos in CM look like slums or just become abandoned buildings and the construction quality is atrocious.

Will your condo ultimately end up looking like this?

[mascarabertha]

After a number of years, most of the condos in CM look like slums or just become abandoned buildings and the construction quality is atrocious.

Will your condo ultimately end up looking like this?

image.jpeg

depends on who's running the show. big foreign participation not so

[Somnambulist]

Look at your own (wife's) "5 million house." Realistically what would it rent for? Multiply by 12 and divide by 5,000,000...then convert decimal to percent by multiplying by 100. That is your gross return. Cut that in half, and you will be close to net + some headaches and a monkey on your back. Selling it and buying condos won't be that much different.

That would be 2.4%. Ouch. Pathetic. It's back to the drawing board. Thank you.

[Somnambulist]

Tax on income etc????

See a good lawyer first .

Is there any such creature here?

I do realize this is a bit of a pedantic little pet-peeve of mine, but it's staggering the things that Farang believe requires 'a lawyer'.

Tax does not require a lawyer, it requires a chick with some experience in accounting and filling in forms. These creatures are everywhere. They make good wives toov, actually.

BTW any expenses related to making that income such as those for maintenance, renovations, electricity and what not can be deducted of course, so it helps to keep track of that.

Never forget the dictum 'you get what you pay for'.

I used a bookkeeper operating a home office, for years for my company. It was only when I switched to an accountant who had a full-time business, that I found out about some mistakes the bookkeeper made. Cost me tax, as she recorde my house in the company and under-recorded the cost of the land. Luckily, I had a young lawyer, who had qualified with an international firm and my new accountant to sort things out. When I sold off the house, they saved me 150,000 in tax, using some imaginative tax work. BTW, you must chose between deducting actual costs from rental income, or a fixed %. This is a once- in-a-life-time choice.

With all due respect, I have to ask you, 2 questions.

1. since you represent yourself as a sophisticated investor in Canada and in Latin America - how did you manage to get yourself in the fix where your wife owns the house. Did you not do DD? Anybody here at TV would have advised you that you can own the house and how to secure it in the event that the marriage breaks down.

2. For the type of investment decision you want to make now, should you not put a bit more work into it, rather than seeking advice from TV. We are an informed bunch, mostly. But, as a retired CPA, I read some daft ideas here too.

My advice is - buy that book recommended to you;

Go buy a 1/2 hour from an accountant with an established public practice.

If you don't feel confident that they are on the up and up, get a second opinion. 1/2 hour will cost you Cost you 2000-3000. Best money you will ever spend.

Sure hope things work out for you!

1) How did you twist my wife giving me the house into me being in a fix? I concentrated my DD efforts into the character of my wife.

2) In number one you chide me for not seeking advice on TV but now you're chiding me for doing exactly that lol. So, I shouldn't take your advice either? Actually it seems like good advice and I'm going to do it. Starting this thread was just a start. The house hasn't been sold, the divorce won't happen till mid January, in fact I only found out about the divorce on December 19. It's strange that you would assume I won't seek advice elsewhere as well. There have been some excellent and very helpful posts in this thread and of course some that were not, but that's just common sense. Most of us are not retired CPAs and yet we have managed to do just fine. I retired ten years ago at the age of 45 and still have enough to live on for another several years even if I lose the house. So please, I know you intend well, but please stop talking to me like I'm an idiot.

[chiang mai]

Yup! Mrs CM used to work for Chedi/Antanara Hotel where there's a high guest count of Chinese visitors. She reports that wealthier Chinese come and stay for seven/ten days, specifically to buy property and that some of the agents are a familiar sight in the hotel - plenty of blue plates to be seen in the garage below. Another report mentions a wealthy Chinese guest who walked into the boutique shop at the hotel and blew 200k Baht in minutes and had it all shipped back home!

well the shopping spree does not surprise me one bit at all. in Bangkok, Chinese come for the weekend and are chauffeured to one Central mall in particular (i think the newest one) and they drop 500K in a single weekend often buying many gifts and they also take orders from friends back home. they seem to love the luxury and designer brands; men's shoes, ladies purses, wristwatches, perfumes, etc.

ever been to the bee products shop on Changmai Land? it is my guess that they are doing 60-80K in business per hour. it's quite a sight to see with all the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese queued up to hear the presentation, sampling of products, and then the shopping begins! it looks like each passenger on the bus drops 3-7K.

but the purchase of condominiums really surprises me.

No I haven't been there but it doesn't surprise me, watching the behavior of the tour groups at Airport Mall and Central Festival is enough for me.

But if you think about it it's only logical, there's a lot of hot black money in China that needs a home, preferably somewhere outside of the mainland. It used to be that the casino's of Macau provided some opportunities to disguise those funds but alas no longer. So buying real estate in Thailand is a sensible alternative for those who can't or don't want to bury their money further West.

yes i suppose you are right. i had heard on the business channel that the Chinese with real money were buying up properties in California like crazy (in spite of the high property taxes), but that had cooled off considerably now that their economy has gone soft. saw a similar show on BBC Business News where they were doing the same in London? or perhaps the suburbs somewhere.

Entire swathes of London and indeed the whole UK are awash and in many case owned by Chinese, Chinese ownership in London is now about 11% of all property over GBP 1 Mill., up from 4% in 2012:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fcc2d346-bcd3-11e4-9902-00144feab7de.html

And the odd thing is, you still can't find a decent Chinese takeaway there.

[Somnambulist]

Nah, not for renting out condos I don't think. I've never heard that before. Foreigners can own condos.

Are you sleep walking?

It does feel that way sometimes.

[Somnambulist]

Not the sort of post I would make on an open forum,

letting others know what cash you have is not a good

idea,anywhere.

regards Worgeordie

Erm um I was asking for a friend.

[1FinickyOne]

Hi Somnam -

After reading your personal posts, it seems your life is in transition which would be a terrible time to go into something that might end up being a long term investment, whether you want it to be or not… some properties can be hard to turn quickly...

This sounds like a real good time to go slow and let things settle before doing anything… it sounds like you had a very nice wife, I am sure given a clear head, you will make other good decisions too...

[Somnambulist]

Hi Somnam -

After reading your personal posts, it seems your life is in transition which would be a terrible time to go into something that might end up being a long term investment, whether you want it to be or not… some properties can be hard to turn quickly...

This sounds like a real good time to go slow and let things settle before doing anything… it sounds like you had a very nice wife, I am sure given a clear head, you will make other good decisions too...

Thank you for your kind words and good advice. You're right, I don't know what's next and am still reeling. Slow and steady...

[bangmai]

Look at your own (wife's) "5 million house." Realistically what would it rent for? Multiply by 12 and divide by 5,000,000...then convert decimal to percent by multiplying by 100. That is your gross return. Cut that in half, and you will be close to net + some headaches and a monkey on your back. Selling it and buying condos won't be that much different.

That would be 2.4%. Ouch. Pathetic. It's back to the drawing board. Thank you.

The guy that bought my cousin's house for 980K USD has it rented out for 3900 usd. Using the same formula; he's netting 2.39%...but...the value is mostly in an infill lot, and will easily be worth more with the house not on it in the next few years, and likely is already. Still, I would never do it, but those are the kinds of moves people with lots of cash have to make, and likely suits his tax scenario well. But a 5 million THB house outside of CNX, in any suburb, is easily replaceable, and the value is most likely in the structure, which is almost definitely depreciating. And don't forget about the 12.5% Boogeyman. 7 million thb for the beat up townhouse on 35 wah, on the north side of the moat, would be a better investment/land play. The building is mostly depreciated, but still very rentable, and the big payday will come with the bulldozer.