Wages Cut For Excessive Absent Days?

[BruceMangosteen]

A friend, female white NES, has now exceeded her allotted by contract sick and business absences. This as a result of her being lazy and unwilling to come to school on time, refusing to sign in on time, and actually being ill and on actual business leave such as 90 day reporting.

Long story, but she is admired despite what we in the "west" would consider behavior unacceptable and would have, in all cases, resulted in her dismissal long ago, no matter how much she was "Liked" unless of course granting sexual favors to the "boss".(not happening in this case, trust me) I seriously doubt a 7/11 or Big C would allow such conduct either, even in Thailand.

However, she is now concerned about her contracted wages being cut as per the contract stipulations as she has told said school she isn't returning for another school year.

Does anyone have personal or first hand information about a school, specifically a government school, cutting a teachers wages for this conduct? If yes, have the deductions been made at the end of each month or did the school wait until termination and of course, until after final marks submitted, i.e. March of said school year.

Happy New Year

[eldragon]

I have heard rumors that being late too often can result in pay deductions, but I hope the school would warn someone first. My personal experience is it usually affects raises and bonuses. But who knows with these government schools. They all seem to do things a little differently.

[Loaded]

It would be part of her contractual obligations to the school. She signed the contract and she will be aware of her obligations. Why is she complaining?

[tonray]

Wages being cut.....many teachers do not get any pay for days not teaching...including 90 day reports or Visa business. She should consider herself lucky she was not fired outright !

[BruceMangosteen]

Wages being cut.....many teachers do not get any pay for days not teaching...including 90 day reports or Visa business. She should consider herself lucky she was not fired outright !

Not sure what teachers you refer...my experiences are much different. This matter has been brought to me and I'm asking about it. I've personally never seen a teacher have his/her salary cut for being absent, even in case when they never return. You may be referring to a situation where the teacher is on an hourly wage and/or working for an agency. The context of my inquiry is direct hire by the school and monthly salary. Thank you for your effort and reply but out of context.

[BruceMangosteen]

It would be part of her contractual obligations to the school. She signed the contract and she will be aware of her obligations. Why is she complaining?

As has been discussed before, leaving without fulfilling your contractual obligation is a choice all teachers have to make. Now is a good time to leave as the term is half over and the year is all over(calendar). As for her "complaining", again, this is a person who does a lot of complaining and doesn't feel compelled to even come to work on time. So as with the other poster, we thank you for your effort but it lacks consideration of the context.

[BruceMangosteen]

I have heard rumors that being late too often can result in pay deductions, but I hope the school would warn someone first. My personal experience is it usually affects raises and bonuses. But who knows with these government schools. They all seem to do things a little differently.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, warnings may have come but not in a written or directly from "management", only rumors from the water cooler. It seems this lass isn't the only foreigner with a lack of work ethic etc.. Not coming on time, skipping school like a teenager, all of it makes me personally sick and must reflect on all foreigners truth be told.

On a related matter, you mention "bonuses". I've never heard of Government schools giving bonuses or private ones for that matter. Can I ask why you mention bonuses? Happy Holidays.

[tonray]

I have heard rumors that being late too often can result in pay deductions, but I hope the school would warn someone first. My personal experience is it usually affects raises and bonuses. But who knows with these government schools. They all seem to do things a little differently.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, warnings may have come but not in a written or directly from "management", only rumors from the water cooler. It seems this lass isn't the only foreigner with a lack of work ethic etc.. Not coming on time, skipping school like a teenager, all of it makes me personally sick and must reflect on all foreigners truth be told.

On a related matter, you mention "bonuses". I've never heard of Government schools giving bonuses or private ones for that matter. Can I ask why you mention bonuses? Happy Holidays.

Bonuses are in reality 'holdbacks' , salary that is held until end of term to try and insure people staying full semester or year.

[eldragon]

I have heard rumors that being late too often can result in pay deductions, but I hope the school would warn someone first. My personal experience is it usually affects raises and bonuses. But who knows with these government schools. They all seem to do things a little differently.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, warnings may have come but not in a written or directly from "management", only rumors from the water cooler. It seems this lass isn't the only foreigner with a lack of work ethic etc.. Not coming on time, skipping school like a teenager, all of it makes me personally sick and must reflect on all foreigners truth be told.

On a related matter, you mention "bonuses". I've never heard of Government schools giving bonuses or private ones for that matter. Can I ask why you mention bonuses? Happy Holidays.

Thai government school teachers usually (always?) get a bonus at the end of their contract that more or less equates to one month of salary. I think a few of the language schools even offer em. I got one at a government university. I saw one written into a contract for a government secondary school I opted not to sign with. In fact, I think they might be pretty standard for jobs in Thailand. Although, I've also worked at schools that didn't offer em and others that seemed like they were trying to hide em from us, probably so they could embezzle em.

I'm not the most timely teacher, either. Morale gets pretty low after a few miscommunications from the Thai admins. (Ever had a class cancelled or not show up with no notice?) Or when you realize everyone passes even if they show up for half the classes and turn in none of their assignments. Plus, most teachers are just here for the experience of living abroad. If you want to work with real teachers, I suggest upping your education and finding a better job. Don't frustrate yourself over a government school though.

[eldragon]

I have heard rumors that being late too often can result in pay deductions, but I hope the school would warn someone first. My personal experience is it usually affects raises and bonuses. But who knows with these government schools. They all seem to do things a little differently.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, warnings may have come but not in a written or directly from "management", only rumors from the water cooler. It seems this lass isn't the only foreigner with a lack of work ethic etc.. Not coming on time, skipping school like a teenager, all of it makes me personally sick and must reflect on all foreigners truth be told.

On a related matter, you mention "bonuses". I've never heard of Government schools giving bonuses or private ones for that matter. Can I ask why you mention bonuses? Happy Holidays.

Bonuses are in reality 'holdbacks' , salary that is held until end of term to try and insure people staying full semester or year.

That's probably true. Mine was always 1/12 of my monthly salary multiplied by the number of months in the contract.

[phil2]

Wages being cut.....many teachers do not get any pay for days not teaching...including 90 day reports or Visa business. She should consider herself lucky she was not fired outright !

Not sure what teachers you refer...my experiences are much different. This matter has been brought to me and I'm asking about it. I've personally never seen a teacher have his/her salary cut for being absent, even in case when they never return. You may be referring to a situation where the teacher is on an hourly wage and/or working for an agency. The context of my inquiry is direct hire by the school and monthly salary. Thank you for your effort and reply but out of context.

Direct hire: B5/m for being late or for leaving early, and no pay for visa run/sick leave = due to abuse by NES.

[Satcommlee]

You are paid to turn up and teach, if you don't turn up and teach then you should get nothing!

Totally uninformed response from somebody that has no idea!

[Scott]

I don't know about gov't schools, but one school I deal with deducts 50 baht for each 15 minutes that an employee is late. There is a little bit of a grace period for those a few minutes late and for those that are almost never tardy, but the regular suspects, get deducted.

Other than visa days -- 3 per year -- the school does the 90 day reporting and there is 10 days of sick leave, but you must have a medical excuse from a first class medical provider, or you are deducted.

All of this is spelled out in the contract.

Absenteeism is a problem at a lot of schools and it takes a certain number of bodies to take care of the kids, especially the younger ones.

[bigt3116]

Thai labour law, which obviously trumps a school's contract, allows for 30 days per year sick leave. Are you sure she has had more than that many sick days ?

[Scott]

The problem is that if she goes to the labor court, she will likely no longer have a job. At a minimum, she will not get a new contract.

[BruceMangosteen]

Thai labour law, which obviously trumps a school's contract, allows for 30 days per year sick leave. Are you sure she has had more than that many sick days ?

It's a Government school. Government schools are exempt from many "labor laws" including but not limited to severance pay. To think that you, a foreigner, teaching and working(late, absent, etc.) in a lackadaisical manner are going to trump a contract which spells out wage deductions using some "labor law" card is laughable. However, to answer your question, she doesn't know how many days she's missed and the school doesn't either as no records are kept by either party.

[BruceMangosteen]

The problem is that if she goes to the labor court, she will likely no longer have a job. At a minimum, she will not get a new contract.

She is not seeking a new contract, and has advised them of this.

The labor court solution doesn't apply to Government schools. People have for years posted on here about going to "labor court" but never ever do we read of a verdict in favor of a foreigner againist a Government school. I don't even recall of same vs a private school. Only in cases of a major employer and a Thai complainant do we sometimes read of action being taken. A Filipino or Englishman isn't going to get relief ordered by any "labor court" against a Thai Government school for salary deductions or severance. Easy to grasp, difficult for some on here to accept, but it's reality.

[BruceMangosteen]

Direct hire: B5/m for being late or for leaving early, and no pay for visa run/sick leave = due to abuse by NES.

Are you indicating that at some schools, even one, that "leaving early" aka leaving after your last class of the day can result in a salary deduction? I've heard of threats of same for coming late, but for leaving early? This is new territory. Please elaborate or are you just making assumptions?

[DavisH]

Direct hire: B5/m for being late or for leaving early, and no pay for visa run/sick leave = due to abuse by NES.

Are you indicating that at some schools, even one, that "leaving early" aka leaving after your last class of the day can result in a salary deduction? I've heard of threats of same for coming late, but for leaving early? This is new territory. Please elaborate or are you just making assumptions?

School rules vary. We have a thumb scanner so the schools exactly when we clock in or out. There is a small deduction for tardiness, but that is circumvented with a letter to state the reason for being late. We have 6 days sick leave...teachers taking more than this without a very good reason are deducted a days pay (2-3K). This is a private school by the way. I've never seen a teacher deducted salary though, but if you don't have any kind of system of deductions in place, then I guess salary deduction is the only way. Either way, the teacher should finish all paperwork at the end of the year before receiving their last pay.

[WhamBam]

From what I am led to understand, several small Govt schools in Chonburi area do deduct the wages at the end of the month for abscences described by the OP, epscecially after being warned about their behaviour, also for too many consecutive days sick without a sick note (one got sacked for the lack of a sick note). Thai labour law states you need a sick note for abscence longer than 3 days.

The labour laws are quite good and easy to read when you use a search facility on the opened document. Sadly I no longer have a link to that document that some kind person posted in the teaching section before.

As an aside, surely anyone who does not turn up for work on time or had many days off on a regular basis does not deserve to get paid for those periods of time?

[casualbiker]

Thai labour law, which obviously trumps a school's contract, allows for 30 days per year sick leave. Are you sure she has had more than that many sick days ?

It's a Government school. Government schools are exempt from many "labor laws" including but not limited to severance pay. To think that you, a foreigner, teaching and working(late, absent, etc.) in a lackadaisical manner are going to trump a contract which spells out wage deductions using some "labor law" card is laughable. However, to answer your question, she doesn't know how many days she's missed and the school doesn't either as no records are kept by either party.

actually I think you have that the wrong way round. Private schools are under the Private schools act. Government schools are under standard Labour department rules. There are certain exceptions such as salary etc.

[bangmai]

being late is somewhat worse than being stoned. One will definitely be noticed. 40 students in a corridor, after the bell, because they are locked out of their classroom? Very bad scene. I'm surprised you rarely see any mention of Substitute Teachers, here. It's all computerized in the US. The teacher calls the computer, and the computer starts calling subs. A 5% absentee rate would be low in the US. What do you think it runs on a daily average here?

[BruceMangosteen]

being late is somewhat worse than being stoned. One will definitely be noticed. 40 students in a corridor, after the bell, because they are locked out of their classroom? Very bad scene. I'm surprised you rarely see any mention of Substitute Teachers, here. It's all computerized in the US. The teacher calls the computer, and the computer starts calling subs. A 5% absentee rate would be low in the US. What do you think it runs on a daily average here?

I've never heard of substitute teachers being compulsory in Thai Government schools. This true not only for foreigner classes, but Thai classes. Some schools try it on by Directors order for a few weeks, then it goes away. People don't want to be bothered and see the absent teacher as taking advantage. In addition, no extra pay is offered. Who can blame them?

In one specific instance I recall classrooms being unlocked by the students, having either learned or been told by the foreigner where to find the key and to open it. I agree with you completely, having them sitting in a corridor is an awful sight. It however doesn't bother the Thai staff unless the Director cares and comes around often.

As for average, a lazy teacher such as I describe, a foreigner, can and has been absent or late by call it 30 min or more, 50 percent of the time. Even at a rate of 50 percent, nothing was done to her. Unbelievable I know, but I've seen it myself as well as being asked regarding this deserved wage cut.

[BruceMangosteen]

actually I think you have that the wrong way round. Private schools are under the Private schools act. Government schools are under standard Labour department rules. There are certain exceptions such as salary etc.

What to you mean "salary" is an exception? Paying salary or what?

Fact remains, you, a foreigner, have no chance at winning any "labor" dispute with a Government school. Don't waste your time. Some on here think the Thai Government is going to send money to Manila and London and Bombay to foreign teachers who have been fired or left or even dare I say and ask, last months wages.