What's so great about Chiang Mai?

[banter68]

It's getting more and more crowded, traffic-jammed and polluted.

The agricultural burning during the dry season is still done openly and thus won't stop any time soon.

The weather during April-May-June is insanely hot.

House prices and rents are soaring--rents being asked for some CM neighborhoods are higher (as in >US$1K/mo) than in some nice small towns in the US.

Medical costs are rising quickly too.

Noise at night is often at stupidly high levels even some ways distant from the city.

Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level. Nannies often want B15,000/mo and up, plus lots of time off...

[because] CM is increasingly filled with expats who are content to pay that.

So what does everyone see in the place? What is the spark, the charm, that I'm missing? My point isn't to whinge (nor should yours be that I should hit the road). One could find fault with any place. My question is why Anglophone and European expats choose to come here and stay here even though it's far from their homelands. What are the positives I'm overlooking?

[daveAustin]

Its past.

[Loaded]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is the burgers.

[Donnyboy]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is the burgers.

is the water still free?

[cyberfarang]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

[sappersrest]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

[OneZero]

I sold up lock, stock & barrel and left my homeland for the Thai food and the abundance of Indian tailor shops. Seriously though, you make some extremely good points (especially traffic). However, you've not mentioned the attraction of Thai women to those in need. In Chiang Mai (a University town, unlike lower Sukhumvit or Pattaya Beach Road) the farang can boast that "she" is not a professional. It's an ego thing you know.

[TheAppletons]

OP, serious question: why are you here? Perhaps the answer to that question will help you to understand why others of your shared cultural background are here as well.

[Donnyboy]

talk about crowded.

Had a look in Makro this early afternoon to buy some bits and pieces. Was chocka full. Fresh pork section was heaving, like pork was going to be outlawed tomorrow .People stocking up like it was pre-Armageddon. Trolley driving resembling the vehicle equivalent around town. Checkout queue was at least orderly.

#cantwaitfornewyearstobeover

[cyberfarang]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

I`m also from the UK and don`t see the logic in making comparisons between England and Thailand. That`s like saying it is far cheaper to live in England then it is in Japan or it`s cheaper to live in Brazil then it is in America. If I was still living in the UK I might make comparisons between living in London and Manchester. What is relevant to me is that I live in Chiang Mai, Thailand that has nothing to do with how things are in other countries, therefore I will make comparisons between living in Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai or Isaan.

[alfieconn]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

Would be interested in what they are ?

[MaeJoMTB]

I use a scooter or bicycle, no traffic problems.

Burning has happened since I came here, some years it's worse, some it isn't.

Better hot than cold or wet.

When I came here 7 years back, it was 1.6M for a small new house, now it's 1.9M, not so bad. Her home loan repayments stay the same.

I'm not ill.

Very quiet where I live, day or night.

Housekeeper, it isn't that hard doing it yourself.

I like hiking and cycling in the mountains, I can do it every day.

I like to have western items easily available.

Internet connection is good.

What's not to like ...... 50x better than living in the UK.

[cyberfarang]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

Would be interested in what they are ?

Can`t answer that for you because it depends on what each person likes doing and availability of what some people enjoy. My main concerns are the present immigration situation and worsening pollution each year. Over the last 3 years my girlfriend and me have suffered from permanent coughs, wake up every morning choking my lungs up. A lot of what I used to enjoy has gone into decline in Chiang Mai. Different strokes for different folks.

[bangmai]

A friend was in a crash in the UK, and when he came to, he started screaming that there hadn't been any trial, because he had obviously had judgement day, with a negative outcome.

Much more hospitable hospitals here.

[Renter]

yep my informants up there tell me Chiang Mai is certainly on the skids.

i've never considered it anyway with the stinking air pollution and the cold weather but i suppose those temperatures seem like heaven to the poms & euros after enduring the shocking weather that mother nature inflicts on them.

an old English lady friend told me the other day she got an email from her friend back home saying they had a beautiful warm day so the friend opened all the windows in the house to air the place out.

Good i said & how hot was it ? .......13 C ......i couldn't help laughing...then she did too.

[northernjohn]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

All excellent points. I wonder what the little villages and the housing is like where you can rent for 6,000 baht. In the States that would be under $200 a month Canada a little over $220 a month. Can't speak for Europe. I really like the fact that to a large degree I am responsible. Can't sue for every little triviality. If I step in a hole in the side walk that is my fault. I really like the different culture. It at times mystifies me and at times it amazes me. I am not denying that there are homes for over 30,000 baht a month rental but they would make a price wise home in the West look like a shack.

OP, serious question: why are you here? Perhaps the answer to that question will help you to understand why others of your shared cultural background are here as well.

Excellent point. If all the negative posters would come out with a list of why they are here it would be a real eye opener. Kids don't count. They are some thing you picked up after you moved here. Even the ones who can only list what they perceive as negative points and claim not to be negative them selves post what they like.

[MaeJoMTB]

All excellent points. I wonder what the little villages and the housing is like where you can rent for 6,000 baht. In the States that would be under $200 a month Canada a little over $220 a month. Can't speak for Europe. I really like the fact that to a large degree I am responsible. Can't sue for every little triviality. If I step in a hole in the side walk that is my fault. I really like the different culture. It at times mystifies me and at times it amazes me. I am not defying that there are homes for over 30,000 baht a month rental but they would make a price wise home in the West look like a shack.

In the UK, 35 years ago, I purchased my first semi-detached house.

3 beds, 145m2, 1 bathroom, surrounded by other houses in a small town ..... repayments 300gbp/month (15KBht)

My wife looked like one of the six English nurses (actually 3rd in from the left MIGHT be my English wife).

In Thailand 2 years ago, my wife purchased her first detached house.

3 beds, 145m2, 3 shower rooms, surrounded by rice paddy and mountain views near CM ...... repayments 200gbp/month (11KBht)

My wife looks like the Thai nurse.

[northernjohn]

"Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level". .

I thought slavery was abolished years ago, So you can hire labour at just over $3 an hour in the US???

In answer to your question my wife and I came from the UKto take early retirement here ,House rentals are half of what they are in the uk Municipal tax (council tax is the equivalent to 6000 baht per month

Electriciy gas and water come to around an average of 5000 Baht per month.

The weather is nicer and we are well placed in Asia to travel.

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

We don,t read or speak much Thai so we are pretty oblivious to all that political crap that we get atat home.

I enjoy not living in a nanny state as well

As far as I am concerned I am living in paradise.

I`m also from the UK and don`t see the logic in making comparisons between England and Thailand. That`s like saying it is far cheaper to live in England then it is in Japan or it`s cheaper to live in Brazil then it is in America. If I was still living in the UK I might make comparisons between living in London and Manchester. What is relevant to me is that I live in Chiang Mai, Thailand that has nothing to do with how things are in other countries, therefore I will make comparisons between living in Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai or Isaan.

He compared the cost of housing to the states that would include utilities also when he said medical costs are rising was he talking about the public hospitals that have been here for years or the Brand New state of the art equipment ones? As for the cost of maid and gardeners it has been high for years. Is he comparing every thing to Bangkok or maybe a small village in Issan. Pretty hard to judge any thing based on things you don't like about the city. Need some thing more concrete to compare to.

[narkeddiver]

I'm here

[northernjohn]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

Would be interested in what they are ?

Can`t answer that for you because it depends on what each person likes doing and availability of what some people enjoy. My main concerns are the present immigration situation and worsening pollution each year. Over the last 3 years my girlfriend and me have suffered from permanent coughs, wake up every morning choking my lungs up. A lot of what I used to enjoy has gone into decline in Chiang Mai. Different strokes for different folks.

I hear you.

For me the Immigration is not a problem. It is a once a year event and I am retired so it is not as though I have no time. If I want I can pay some one and did do so to do it. 90 day are a good excuse to get out and about. The really big bitch I have about Chiang Mai now is they are no longer bringing in two and some times three good movies a week. My movie interests are still the same.

As for the smog I can not say if it is getting worse or not. But I can say I am getting older and less able to handle physical things than I used to. Also my interests are changing. So far they have not changed enough that I would go looking for another place in Thailand or any other country. But I do admit my aging is part of the loss of what used to be attractions.

[flyDelight]

I wonder do tabacco smokers also complaining about the smog?

Actually they are a part of the problem.

[mesquite]

It's home of the recently-crowned Poster of the Year.

[CMBob]

"My point isn't to whinge (nor should yours be that I should hit the road)."

Why bother saying your point isn't to whinge immediately after providing a major whinge??? And some of what you're complaining about (the Thai minimum wage - about $2.77 an hour - nearing the US level, expensive medical or dental services, etc.) simply isn't true at all.

And then you have the moxie to suggest how we shouldn't respond to your rant. Okay, I won't say it but thought you might like some appropriate music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKvhxapM5zo

[Renter]

tobacco smokers part of the problem. lol Einstein

[cyberfarang]

Taking into consideration increasing house prices, rents, medical fees, labour costs and noise levels, I think the same could be said for the whole of Thailand, only that Chiang Mai is no longer as good value for money as in other regions.

Number one, immigration has become a nightmare the worst in the whole country, the pollution in Chiang Mai is bad, early closing of bars and general lack of things that maybe taken for granted in other regions. I am becoming disillusioned with Chiang Mai and would not recommend settling here.

Would be interested in what they are ?

Can`t answer that for you because it depends on what each person likes doing and availability of what some people enjoy. My main concerns are the present immigration situation and worsening pollution each year. Over the last 3 years my girlfriend and me have suffered from permanent coughs, wake up every morning choking my lungs up. A lot of what I used to enjoy has gone into decline in Chiang Mai. Different strokes for different folks.

I hear you.

For me the Immigration is not a problem. It is a once a year event and I am retired so it is not as though I have no time. If I want I can pay some one and did do so to do it. 90 day are a good excuse to get out and about. The really big bitch I have about Chiang Mai now is they are no longer bringing in two and some times three good movies a week. My movie interests are still the same.

As for the smog I can not say if it is getting worse or not. But I can say I am getting older and less able to handle physical things than I used to. Also my interests are changing. So far they have not changed enough that I would go looking for another place in Thailand or any other country. But I do admit my aging is part of the loss of what used to be attractions.

Immigration doesn`t bother me that much either, except concerned if it could get worse in the future and it`s still worse then anywhere else in Thailand. This is comparing Chiang Mai with other regions.

In England they have the National Health Service, which is atrocious. A person has to be on death’s door before receiving treatment and the over 55s are written off. Private heath care is reserved for the well off, not affordable to the average working person.

In the past my family lived in local authority housing and rented accommodation, it was not until the 1960s when family members progressed enough and were able to buy their own homes. My parents bought their first home, a 3 bedroom house for £900 in the late 1960s, it’s valued at £380000 today. I bought my first house in 1981. Laugh when people mention housekeepers. Never had or could afford a housekeeper in England, so why would anyone expect to have one in Thailand? Unless they are very elderly or infirm. Seems like more a thing or keeping up appearances to me.

We can’t compare the cost of health care and accommodation or property prices with those in our own countries. It’s a whole different system. In the UK I could work and the incomes are more or possibly receive government handouts to help with accommodation requirements. In Thailand I have choices. If I get ill can use the government hospitals, then not much worse off when under the National Health Service or go to private care if I have the money. I can buy or rent upmarket if I have the money. It is a mistake to compare living in Thailand with our own countries. We can choose how we want to live. I actually love Thailand, I’m one of the lucky ones suits me fine only I think that Chiang Mai is not what it used to be, but on the other hand us old farty asses could say that about anywhere.

I think a prescription for 2 nightly doses of bangmai`s nurse for one week would make me see Chiang Mai in a whole new light and may stop me declining more into a moaning old bleeder, but I would still recommend certain other regions for retirement over and above Chiang Mai for a better lifestyle.

[Loaded]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is the burgers.

is the water still free?

Big C and Dukes it is.

At Big C Superhighway, one has the choice of gourmet KFC Zinger burgers or McDonald's Fillet of Fish cuisine. Walk past Dairy Queen on the way out and pick up a 10 baht ice-cream cone . All come with free water. Personally, my fav is the beer garden - 1 litre of Chang for a smidgen over 100 baht plus lots of free up-skirt and down-tops perving. No free water, but the ice cubes dropped into your beer by a smiling beer girl is gratis.

[FolkGuitar]

It's not difficult to turn a blind eye to the negatives if you are so inclined. On the other hand, it's very easy, as you have shown us, to wallow in them.

Some places can be noisy. They aren't part of my normal day.

Some place can be very crowded. They aren't part of my normal day.

Hot weather? So what? It's hot everywhere sometimes.

Smog for a couple of weeks out of the entire year? I wear a mask and go about my normal day.

Labor costs? What for? I can't sweep my own floor or do my own laundry? Absurd! If I were working every day I 'might' consider an housekeeper. But I'm retired. Plenty of time. Plenty of energy.

Medical costs? Still a quarter of the cost of the US... IF I were to need it. Haven't spent money on any other than an eye exam in the last three years, and that cost peanuts.

There is no such place as Utopia. But if you are comfortable with your self, you can be comfortable living anywhere. If you aren't, no place will satisfy you.

[asiasurfer]

I love Chiang Mai. Best place to live in the world.

[slipperylobster]

It just barely passes for an ok place to live. Nothing exceptional there. Surrounding areas are nice to visit. I have since moved out, and the only thing I miss is Rimpings. Overall, I would say that Chiang Mai, like Thailand, is short of Amazing. I figure on moving back to the homeland within two years.

[Trujillo]

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

I have found my neighbors in the mooban -- a small one -- to be aloof and snobbish. They have been here forever and think that myself (and maybe the other two aliens in the area) are interlopers. I have never had anyone say, "Hi" to me. And before you jump to conclusions, I am quiet and unassuming and polite. If I dropped in the street of a heart attack, I doubt anyone would give a shit.

The Thai "friendliness" is a hoax. I was recently in the US for a month and the people there ... no, any high school student could give master classes on politeness.

One neighbor up the soi has a small ma and pa shop and they have put in a pipe along the outside of their wall that takes their kitchen and cutting waste and funnels it to the next house down from them. They toss rubbish in the (now) dirt gutter and have a nice colony of rats there. The woman who runs the place and lives there is a true earth pig. I have heard that their neighbors across the soi have complained to the tessaban and they come out and waggle their finger, she tidies up and then pollutes as usual.

My landlord, after owning this property for 29 years, decides that the mango trees are "too big" and severely pollards them. He wanted to cut them down at the base, but I dissuaded him. He cut down completely a large longan tree because he could.

On my soi and the next one there are six houses vacant and either for sale or rent. One is a "condo on the ground" with a small carpark; no soil only the house. She is firm on 8,000 baht a month, which is laughable. Probably why it's been for rent for years.

The "superhighway" is undergoing massive refurbishment and the Maejo road intersection is being converted to an underground throughway and that's supposed to take three years. Haha...

If you want to own your own house, not possible (that means the land too -- who the hell would spend the money to build a house on land they don't own? "My wife/girlfriend loves me! I trust her." Oh boy. ...)

Thais are if nothing else, largely selfish and don't care about you. If I had a nickel for every Thai who gave their word to me (time to meet, work to do, etc.) and then broke it, I'd be rich.

Thais have a litter mentality (not as bad as the Indians or the Egyptians) and my mooban is always gathering rubbish. Just last week someone dumped a bag of trash by the side of the road, by a house, and the solution? Pick it up? No. Set it on fire.

The list goes on.

I stay here because it happens to be where I am now; things are cheap; you can rent companionship for a song and then tell them to get the hell out and do another; there used to be a cool season but that's pretty much gone now; and you can break the rules in SE Asia and pretty much nothing happens.

I am thinking of an exit strategy even now. It's an interesting place and if you don't give a shit about your environment and the year after year of humidity and oppressive heat and a people who have an average IQ of about 85, then it's great. You can get a girlfriend who is massively out of your league and you can even marry them, but you will never know if it's true or you are just a "big customer." I've seen several "solid" years-long relationships dissolve because the woman just got bored, or sick of the guy or found a bigger fish. "I will stay with you because you 'take care' of me and I don't want to continue working in some pissant job making nothing or working in a bar. I love you!"

Most of the foreigners I see have women who can't speak English to save their life. Then the foreigner dumbs down so now he's speaking like a knuckle-dragging neanderthal. Loneliness is one thing, but having a person around you who can't discuss current events or even locate England on a map is mindboggling. But so many men don't recognize this as a downside. Sex soothes many evils. So that's a plus, I guess.

Chiang Mai is fine if you don't care about the downsides. I know some men have "gone native" and move to some shitkicker village and live with the extended family who don't speak English (and most foreigners can't seem to be bothered to learn it, let alone read and write) and have fun counting chickens and setting traps for catching frogs. Hoo ho! My retired life is so good!

Oh yeah, and there's Kad Suan Kaow, where you can have fried rice and a Chang in the food court. All that's missing is the pigeons to feed.