What's so great about Chiang Mai?

[LannaGuy]

I love Chiang Mai and I can't say, definitively, why. I also love getting away from Chiang Mai around Asia (especially Bali, Philippines or Vietnam) and excursions to the dens of sin in Pattaya etc. but after all that I love coming back here!

But... the Traffic IS becoming a pain and so is the closing of the nightlife at 12 in the search for 'happiness' but I can only see me leaving via the local Wats chimney as there is no better place

[jesimps]

Nothing!

That's just my personal opinion of course.

[puukao]

I act like I don't see the crowds.

I act like I don't wear a face mask due to death air.

I act like the pollution is normal

I act like the food is pristine

I act like the people are nice

I act like the bar girls only know me

I act like they want me here if i was broke

I act like the expats are nice and special.

I act like it's paradise here..........

cocaine is a hll of a drug!!!!

[LannaGuy]

Nothing!

That's just my personal opinion of course.

Goodbye then...

[Just1Voice]

Okay, I'll wade into this one. I live in a moo ban 18 klm east of the city. 100 houses total. No club house or pool. No big deal. We've been in this house (bought it brand new) for over 7 years, and I can't think of any place else I would rather live. Only one other farang in here. A German guy that no one likes. I know everyone in the 14 houses on our soi, and am friends with all of them. Everyone always smiles, waves, and tries to talk to me. Last night the man and wife 2 houses down personally came to our house and invited us down for their NYE party. They jokingly refer to me as "The Dog Man" because I make daily rounds to go see, pet and play with every dog on this soi. Two+ years ago, when I had my stroke, every neighbor on this soi (and a couple of adjoining soi) were coming to see me, check and see if I, or my wife, needed anything.

As for Chiang Mai itself, yes, it has definitely changed over the past 7 years and, to me, the biggest change is the number of "farang" now living here. I can remember when I used to go to Immigration at 8:30 for my yearly renewal, and be done by 10:00 or 10:30. Now you have to get there at 04:00 in the morning and HOPE you get a good, early queue number, and still plan on making a day of it. But what the hell, I'm retired, so it's not like I have something else to do.

The traffic, especially in town, has become a nightmare, so I do my best to avoid it. But even where we live on the Outer Ring Road, sometimes you can sit for 5 minutes just trying to get out of the moo ban because of the traffic. They have started making 121 4-lane, but it will be a while before it get's to our area.

The bad air? Yeah, when we first moved out here, there were only 2 other moo bans near by, and lots of rice paddies, so it could get really nasty. Now there are about 7 moo bans, and some major stores, and the inevitable 7-11's, so no more burning in the fields, as there are no more fields left to burn.

And if I get bored, I simply get on my new CB300 and I can be on Highway 11 in about 5 minutes, and head out for a 2-3-4 day road trip.

Is Chiang Mai perfect? Not by a long shot. Is it better than any place else I know? Hell yes! I have no intentions of every leaving.

[blazes]

The last seven years I've been spending 6 months in CM and 6 months in my own country.

So, coming every 6 months you tend to notice things more sharply. While CM is still my preferred place, the greatest deterioration has, IMO, been in traffic, especially in the area around Maya (a totally needless monstrosity). The intersection at Maya must, surely, be the most polluted in all of Northern Thailand.

The traffic on weekends (Fridays in particular) is impossible. Millions of cars, it seems, from Bangkok.

And the second worst deterioration is in the "quality" of tourist. I refer of course to the Chinese (themselves the most racist race on earth). But while (a negative for the Thais) they contribute very little to the Thai economy, that does mean that most of the good restaurants are Chinese-free.

The pollution in March is very real and is a definitive negative, but then it's been like that for decades if not centuries. And most expats can escape it by the simple expedient of flying to a seaside location in Thailand or beyond.

And Immigration is never a problem if one uses the services of a dependable immigration agent (like the one on Niman soi 9, across from the former Monkey Club).

The major plus is that rents and restaurants are very reasonable.

[FolkGuitar]

If I didn't like being somewhere, I'd leave. Seems to make much more sense than bitching about it all the time.

Complaining about things over which we have no control makes even less sense.

[bazza40]

If I lived in Australia, I would be living very modestly, watching every cent I spend, and basically sitting around waiting to die.

Here, I live as a rich man. I have falang and Thai friends. I play golf regularly, eat well and drink moderately. I'm learning more Thai bit by bit, which is good brain exercise. I can indulge my reading and motoring hobbies to my heart's content. And yes, I have a Thai girlfriend who looks after me very well. Some posters on TV can unwittingly provide me with great amusement.

My move to Chiang Mai was the product of 6 month's research into alternative retirement destinations, and I've had no reason to regret my choice.

Specifically, Chiang Mai has a great choice of cuisines at very reasonable prices. The best restaurant in town costs no more than a middle of the road restaurant in Australia.

There are a number of quite good golf courses to choose from. I rent a fully-furnished condo with a swimming pool for $A330 a month - it would cost you that much or more a week in Melbourne for an unfurnished apartment with no pool. There are some nice drives to be had once you get out of town.

I can't let this thread go without congratulating MaeJoMTB on his post. After a long period of negative posts from him, it's really good to see a positive outlook.

[bangmai]

The pollution problems aren't necessarily permanent. Look at the air in LA...much better than it used to be. Same with most rivers in the US. I think they are doing a lot better in BKK with the garbage than they used to. Some things may have to get worse before they get better, but there is still hope. Same goes with the dog problems....it might just take a rabies outbreak to finally get it taken care of; but, IMO, it will be worth it (assuming I'm not one, who gets it).

Are there actually nice places on this planet that welcome the penniless? I don't know of any. I grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia, which is internationally known for high incomes, and great public schools. I can assure you, it is one of the worst places to be if you aren't making at least 50,000 usd per year, and you would be losing 40% of your take home to housing expenses, and have hellish commutes. The dating scene is near horrific. A friend, who is actually loaded, has resorted to meeting a Korean lady at the local Panda Express and a short time comes with a 200 USD donation. Another friend, makes about 140K per year, and I think the only shag he's had in the last 10 years was with a Romanian hooker at Oktoberfest in Germany.

[bazza40]

The pollution problems aren't necessarily permanent. Look at the air in LA...much better than it used to be. Same with most rivers in the US. I think they are doing a lot better in BKK with the garbage than they used to. Some things may have to get worse before they get better, but there is still hope. Same goes with the dog problems....it might just take a rabies outbreak to finally get it taken care of; but, IMO, it will be worth it (assuming I'm not one, who gets it).

Are there actually nice places on this planet that welcome the penniless? I don't know of any. I grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia, which is internationally known for high incomes, and great public schools. I can assure you, it is one of the worst places to be if you aren't making at least 50,000 usd per year, and you would be losing 40% of your take home to housing expenses, and have hellish commutes. The dating scene is near horrific. A friend, who is actually loaded, has resorted to meeting a Korean lady at the local Panda Express and a short time comes with a 200 USD donation. Another friend, makes about 140K per year, and I think the only shag he's had in the last 10 years was with a Romanian hooker at Oktoberfest in Germany.

Did your friends fall out of the ugly tree, and hit every branch on the way down?

[villagefarang]

For me Chiang Mai is nice three hour drive through the mountains. There are some shopping and dining options which are not available in Chiang Rai. We have a really good friend who has a home there so we stay with her when she is in town. We of course reciprocate when she needs a quiet countryside break from her stressful Bangkok job.

We enjoy the Nimman area and we have been introduced to an amazing number of interesting coffeeshops, tea houses, boutiques, restaurants and out of the way places to just chill and visit with friends.

I had some dental work done last year which wasn’t available in Chiang Rai and one of our cars has to be serviced in Chiang Mai. It seems like I am always looking for an excuse to drive over the mountains every few months. Sure there is more traffic than I am accustomed to here in Chiang Rai but I enjoy my trips to Chiang Mai.

[Sooo Upto Me]

Who said Chaing Mai is Great? It's littered with gone past their sell date ex Pattaya girls. Oh an old farangs haha

[featography]

With all the negatives you have listed, the better question would be, why are you here?

[sawadee1947]

nothing special

[bangmai]

The pollution problems aren't necessarily permanent. Look at the air in LA...much better than it used to be. Same with most rivers in the US. I think they are doing a lot better in BKK with the garbage than they used to. Some things may have to get worse before they get better, but there is still hope. Same goes with the dog problems....it might just take a rabies outbreak to finally get it taken care of; but, IMO, it will be worth it (assuming I'm not one, who gets it).

Are there actually nice places on this planet that welcome the penniless? I don't know of any. I grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia, which is internationally known for high incomes, and great public schools. I can assure you, it is one of the worst places to be if you aren't making at least 50,000 usd per year, and you would be losing 40% of your take home to housing expenses, and have hellish commutes. The dating scene is near horrific. A friend, who is actually loaded, has resorted to meeting a Korean lady at the local Panda Express and a short time comes with a 200 USD donation. Another friend, makes about 140K per year, and I think the only shag he's had in the last 10 years was with a Romanian hooker at Oktoberfest in Germany.

Did your friends fall out of the ugly tree, and hit every branch on the way down?

Not at all, both are mid 50s...one looks like a movie star, he actually has a hot looking lady here, the other looks more like a Brit, but has a full head of hair and good teeth.

[Just1Voice]

I can't understand someone who is so negative about a place, but continue to live there. Be it Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Phuket, or wherever. If you don't like it, then look for someplace else that suits you better. No place is perfect, and never will be. You tally up the good and the bad, and if the good outweighs the bad, you stay. If not, move on. For me, the "good" of Chiang Mai far and away outweighs the bad, and I love it here.

[ttthailand]

I have been to Chiang Mai many times, once spending over a month. Years ago I was thinking about moving there but didn't for some personal reasons. Recently, spent a week there. The amount of tourist that come there now has taken the charm away from a once peaceful quiet town. The traffic is as bad as Bangkok. The early bar closing to me is not a major problem but it does limit the amount of time you can go party. I don't think the number of ladies, bar or other wise, is as good as Bangkok or any thing special. Perhaps living 10k away from the city would be ok but living anywhere near city center now would be terrible.

The biggest problem is that the charm that Thailand once had is quickly going away.

[ronwparker]

I am from England origionally but have visited or lived in many countries.

I still love this place much more than Isaan or BKK etc.

Luckily I live on the edge of town and like most cities the centre gets busy at peak hours but the ring roads are great so I am rarerely in the centre.

There are good facilities(schools,universaries,hosptals,gyms,malls etc)

I visit England less and less now as I grow older but still watch the cricket and rugby etc on TV(Ex-pat TV).

Sure some of the complaints are true but these apply to narly everywhere in the world

Think my Thai wife and I will stay till one of us dies because we love this place.

Ron

[villagefarang]

I have been listening to people say that Thailand isn’t what it use to be for 40 years. For me it just keeps getting better.

[LannaGuy]

I have been to Chiang Mai many times, once spending over a month. Years ago I was thinking about moving there but didn't for some personal reasons. Recently, spent a week there. The amount of tourist that come there now has taken the charm away from a once peaceful quiet town. The traffic is as bad as Bangkok. The early bar closing to me is not a major problem but it does limit the amount of time you can go party. I don't think the number of ladies, bar or other wise, is as good as Bangkok or any thing special. Perhaps living 10k away from the city would be ok but living anywhere near city center now would be terrible.

The biggest problem is that the charm that Thailand once had is quickly going away.

whilst I agree some of the charm has gone there is still nowhere better? if you live outside of town (say up to 20 kilo) and come in couple times a week it's still great and if you leave, as I described earlier, and come back it still feels like 'home' more than any other place I have visited. On the ladies front (and that is important to me) Pattaya (especially) beats it hands down and I get down there at least six times a year in between all the outside Thailand 'tours' but as you get older and the grim reaper beckons it's nice to live in a nice place like Chiang Mai (I live in San Sai and it really is nice)

[mankondang]

Many of the grumpy group must live I'm a different Chiang Mai to me...I'm happy...Strange there must be a Chiang Mai in the USA by what I read.

You have a choice, please decide.

[abrahamzvi]

Its past.

I entirely and absolutely disagree. I'll refer to the OP message as follows:

It's getting more and more crowded, traffic-jammed and polluted: Agree

The agricultural burning during the dry season is still done openly and thus won't stop any time soon. Correct, but I am sure that it will be at list reduced and limited in them coming season.

The weather during April-May-June is insanely hot. I agree, but where is it cool in April - May in Thailand. I maintain that it is more pleasant in Chiang Mai than in Bangkok and the south.

House prices and rents are soaring--rents being asked for some CM neighborhoods are higher (as in >US$1K/mo) than in some nice small towns in the US. Entirely disagree. Prices of houses and condominiums are reasonable compared to Bangkok or Hua Hin or Pattaya, let alone Phuket. Rents are also reasonable - one can get a one bed room flat for about Baht 20,000 p.m. in a good and central area. If one goes out into the suburbs, one can get a 3 bedrooms nice house for about 30,000 Baht p.m.

This is very reasonable

Medical costs are rising quickly too. Also here I can't agree. Admittedly with the opening of the Bangkok Hospital in Chiang Mai, prices have gone up - but only there. Prices in Chiang Mai Ram, in Suan Dok (Government) and in the many private clinics remain stable and very reasonable compared to the USA, Europe and Australia.

Noise at night is often at stupidly high levels even some ways distant from the city. I have been living in Chiang Mai for quite a few years now and I have really not noticed the (increased) noise during the nights.

Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level. Nannies often want B15,000/mo and up, plus lots of time off... Labour costs have gone up everywhere in Thailand with the introduction of the Baht 300 per day minimum wage. However, if one is prepared tp pay about Baht10,000 p.m. plus accommodation and ( full board and lodging) one can get good housekeepers or nannies.

[because] CM is increasingly filled with expats who are content to pay that. See above

So what does everyone see in the place? What is the spark, the charm, that I'm missing? My point isn't to whinge (nor should yours be that I should hit the road). One could find fault with any place. My question is why Anglophone and European expats choose to come here and stay here even though it's far from their homelands. What are the positives I'm overlooking? Because Thailand is a charming place ( with all its shortcomings!!), Thais are very friendly and welcoming (apart fro the immigration hustle..), the weather in Chiang Mai and surroundings is pleasant and the cost of living is still comparatively reasonable. Obviously it entirely depends on the lifestyle one is looking for. Obviously if one wants to live in a place comparable to New York, London. Paris or Berlin, one should not be in Thailand. However, if one prefers a quieter life style (compared to a small town in the US, or Europe) then Chiang Mai could be the right place for some.

[Doc46]

To many Farangs/Foreigners in the place ,everything goes up. You are all being taking for a ride so to speak Smaller Cities and tows/Villages are still ok. Wait for an other maybe 10 years than everything will be so Westernised and prices be the same /or more then in your own country,,,,Take care and make the most of it whilst you can/can afford it !

[connda]

What's so great about Chiang Mai?

Ahhh, their World Class Immigration Services?

[searcher22]

Great post. Another major plus for Chiang Mai compared to other expat destinations is its very low crime rate. We all take it for granted. It's great to be able to walk around and not have to look over one's shoulder all the time.

[mikiea]

ehhh.... ya seen 1 drugged tiger , 1 defanged snake , one tired old geezer eley funt ya seen them all .whats is left is Bangkok lite .........

[connda]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is that we have a interesting city to visit when we get tired of the quiet rural life in NE Lamphun Province.

Other than that, much of what you mentioned were the primary cause for the wife and I to abandon the city and move 60+km away from the hustle and bustle of 'big city' life. Chiang Mai now? Nice place to visit but I'd rather not live there.

[soc]

Thai people are very friendly and have made us most welcome here especially in the community we live in

I have found my neighbors in the mooban -- a small one -- to be aloof and snobbish. They have been here forever and think that myself (and maybe the other two aliens in the area) are interlopers. I have never had anyone say, "Hi" to me. And before you jump to conclusions, I am quiet and unassuming and polite. If I dropped in the street of a heart attack, I doubt anyone would give a shit.

The Thai "friendliness" is a hoax. I was recently in the US for a month and the people there ... no, any high school student could give master classes on politeness.

One neighbor up the soi has a small ma and pa shop and they have put in a pipe along the outside of their wall that takes their kitchen and cutting waste and funnels it to the next house down from them. They toss rubbish in the (now) dirt gutter and have a nice colony of rats there. The woman who runs the place and lives there is a true earth pig. I have heard that their neighbors across the soi have complained to the tessaban and they come out and waggle their finger, she tidies up and then pollutes as usual.

My landlord, after owning this property for 29 years, decides that the mango trees are "too big" and severely pollards them. He wanted to cut them down at the base, but I dissuaded him. He cut down completely a large longan tree because he could.

On my soi and the next one there are six houses vacant and either for sale or rent. One is a "condo on the ground" with a small carpark; no soil only the house. She is firm on 8,000 baht a month, which is laughable. Probably why it's been for rent for years.

The "superhighway" is undergoing massive refurbishment and the Maejo road intersection is being converted to an underground throughway and that's supposed to take three years. Haha...

If you want to own your own house, not possible (that means the land too -- who the hell would spend the money to build a house on land they don't own? "My wife/girlfriend loves me! I trust her." Oh boy. ...)

Thais are if nothing else, largely selfish and don't care about you. If I had a nickel for every Thai who gave their word to me (time to meet, work to do, etc.) and then broke it, I'd be rich.

Thais have a litter mentality (not as bad as the Indians or the Egyptians) and my mooban is always gathering rubbish. Just last week someone dumped a bag of trash by the side of the road, by a house, and the solution? Pick it up? No. Set it on fire.

The list goes on.

I stay here because it happens to be where I am now; things are cheap; you can rent companionship for a song and then tell them to get the hell out and do another; there used to be a cool season but that's pretty much gone now; and you can break the rules in SE Asia and pretty much nothing happens.

I am thinking of an exit strategy even now. It's an interesting place and if you don't give a shit about your environment and the year after year of humidity and oppressive heat and a people who have an average IQ of about 85, then it's great. You can get a girlfriend who is massively out of your league and you can even marry them, but you will never know if it's true or you are just a "big customer." I've seen several "solid" years-long relationships dissolve because the woman just got bored, or sick of the guy or found a bigger fish. "I will stay with you because you 'take care' of me and I don't want to continue working in some pissant job making nothing or working in a bar. I love you!"

Most of the foreigners I see have women who can't speak English to save their life. Then the foreigner dumbs down so now he's speaking like a knuckle-dragging neanderthal. Loneliness is one thing, but having a person around you who can't discuss current events or even locate England on a map is mindboggling. But so many men don't recognize this as a downside. Sex soothes many evils. So that's a plus, I guess.

Chiang Mai is fine if you don't care about the downsides. I know some men have "gone native" and move to some shitkicker village and live with the extended family who don't speak English (and most foreigners can't seem to be bothered to learn it, let alone read and write) and have fun counting chickens and setting traps for catching frogs. Hoo ho! My retired life is so good!

Oh yeah, and there's Kad Suan Kaow, where you can have fried rice and a Chang in the food court. All that's missing is the pigeons to feed.

Don't hold back mate, tell it like it really is!

Still laughing.

[elgenon]

The best thing about Chiang Mai is the burgers.

I respectfully disagree. It has the best Mexican food in Thailand .

[connda]

Its past.

I entirely and absolutely disagree. I'll refer to the OP message as follows:

It's getting more and more crowded, traffic-jammed and polluted: Agree

The agricultural burning during the dry season is still done openly and thus won't stop any time soon. Correct, but I am sure that it will be at list reduced and limited in them coming season.

The weather during April-May-June is insanely hot. I agree, but where is it cool in April - May in Thailand. I maintain that it is more pleasant in Chiang Mai than in Bangkok and the south.

House prices and rents are soaring--rents being asked for some CM neighborhoods are higher (as in >US$1K/mo) than in some nice small towns in the US. Entirely disagree. Prices of houses and condominiums are reasonable compared to Bangkok or Hua Hin or Pattaya, let alone Phuket. Rents are also reasonable - one can get a one bed room flat for about Baht 20,000 p.m. in a good and central area. If one goes out into the suburbs, one can get a 3 bedrooms nice house for about 30,000 Baht p.m.

This is very reasonable

Medical costs are rising quickly too. Also here I can't agree. Admittedly with the opening of the Bangkok Hospital in Chiang Mai, prices have gone up - but only there. Prices in Chiang Mai Ram, in Suan Dok (Government) and in the many private clinics remain stable and very reasonable compared to the USA, Europe and Australia.

Noise at night is often at stupidly high levels even some ways distant from the city. I have been living in Chiang Mai for quite a few years now and I have really not noticed the (increased) noise during the nights.

Labor costs are way up. Many housekeepers think they should be paid B100/hour, which is approaching a US minimum wage level. Nannies often want B15,000/mo and up, plus lots of time off... Labour costs have gone up everywhere in Thailand with the introduction of the Baht 300 per day minimum wage. However, if one is prepared tp pay about Baht10,000 p.m. plus accommodation and ( full board and lodging) one can get good housekeepers or nannies.

[because] CM is increasingly filled with expats who are content to pay that. See above

So what does everyone see in the place? What is the spark, the charm, that I'm missing? My point isn't to whinge (nor should yours be that I should hit the road). One could find fault with any place. My question is why Anglophone and European expats choose to come here and stay here even though it's far from their homelands. What are the positives I'm overlooking? Because Thailand is a charming place ( with all its shortcomings!!), Thais are very friendly and welcoming (apart fro the immigration hustle..), the weather in Chiang Mai and surroundings is pleasant and the cost of living is still comparatively reasonable. Obviously it entirely depends on the lifestyle one is looking for. Obviously if one wants to live in a place comparable to New York, London. Paris or Berlin, one should not be in Thailand. However, if one prefers a quieter life style (compared to a small town in the US, or Europe) then Chiang Mai could be the right place for some.

House prices and rents are soaring--rents being asked for some CM neighborhoods are higher (as in >US$1K/mo) than in some nice small towns in the US. Entirely disagree. ...one can get a one bed room flat for about Baht 20,000 p.m. in a good and central area.

Wow! Where do you rich farangs live? I pay 2,000 THB/mo for the one bedroom flat that we maintain in Chiang Mai for our occasional visits to the 'big city'. And it too is located in a good central area. If I had to pay 20,000 THB/mo, I'd say that the OP has a valid point. Actually, the OP does have a valid point.