Owning vs Renting: the basic economics

[jpinx]

Then there is the furniture aspect. Your going to end up on some crappy hard as concrete bed and usually cheap Thai made furniture. Again your at the control of your land lords tastes and NOT yours..who wants to go through life like that? Sure you can buy your stuff but that drops rental availability by 70% since most condos are furnished..and then you have to relocate when your landlord ups the rent by 50%

You can rent unfurnished and fill it with your own crappy furniture :) Every landlord who has a number of places to rent is usually happy to have some spare furniture available to him for the inevitable breakages

[WorkingTourist]

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

In what currency and at what rating?

Can you provide us with an example?

[jpinx]

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

In what currency and at what rating?

Can you provide us with an example?

giyf

[beachproperty]

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

In what currency and at what rating?

Can you provide us with an example?

giyf

??????What's that? Some British thing ? NYSE please.

[sirineou]

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

In what currency and at what rating?

Can you provide us with an example?

giyf

That is a glib answer

Then why even have this thread

Why dont we just Google the OP

[jpinx]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

[mcfish]

A 5% annual return over the next 10 years is a rather optimistic scenario so it would only be fair to compare this opportunity cost with a similarly optimistic property appreciation model.

Furthermore, for those who have enough money to buy property, they might already have a large sum invested and are interested in diversification rather than putting all their eggs in a single basket.

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

Do that for 20 years and see how much is left after inflation has taken a big chomp

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[jpinx]

A 5% annual return over the next 10 years is a rather optimistic scenario so it would only be fair to compare this opportunity cost with a similarly optimistic property appreciation model.

Furthermore, for those who have enough money to buy property, they might already have a large sum invested and are interested in diversification rather than putting all their eggs in a single basket.

Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully, with credit ratings too.

Do that for 20 years and see how much is left after inflation has taken a big chomp

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Depends on the country/currency you choose, and depends on what property you compare it with. Comparisons need to be equable to be meaningful.

[beachproperty]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

I've given you a CONCRETE example of how ownership beats renting for a 10 year period IN THAILAND.....you've given a fictitious 6% return on some investment and can't even back it up! Why not say you can get a 10% or 20% return.....equally fictitious return to justify your position. And even at that there is a diminishing return over the years as you still have to pay rent

[sirineou]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

Problem solved, Just say

XYZ investment has historically returned a X% and here is a link, Of course that's no indication of future performance so take care to do your own due diligence..

I am waiting with baited breath, but hurry I am feeling dizzy

[jpinx]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

I've given you a CONCRETE example of how ownership beats renting for a 10 year period IN THAILAND.....you've given a fictitious 6% return on some investment and can't even back it up! Why not say you can get a 10% or 20% return.....equally fictitious return to justify your position. And even at that there is a diminishing return over the years as you still have to pay rent

you mean this "concrete" example?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885270-owning-vs-renting-the-basic-economics/page-2#entry10291608

[jpinx]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

Problem solved, Just say

XYZ investment has historically returned a X% and here is a link, Of course that's no indication of future performance so take care to do your own due diligence..

I am waiting with baited breath, but hurry I am feeling dizzy

I am not doing your legwork for you! If you're too lazy to do a bit of research, that's your problem and your loss -- sorry

There is a strong tendency for posters generally to arrive in the forum with their ideas already fixed and I am not interested in converting anyone to any specific concept. I posted an alternative, if you don't like it, don't do it. If you like the idea - do the research.......

[scubascuba3]

Here is a 5% option for you guys. I haven't invested yet but others i know have and all say how good it is. P2P Lending. Read the risks thoroughly

http://www.zopa.com/lending/risk-management

[beachproperty]

IF you are going to live in Thailand more then 10 years and

IF you have a family you want to give stability to and

IF you have the money to buy

Then buying property or building a house is the way to go....WHY?

Renting at 10,000 bath/month would cost you 1,200,000 Baht.....AND at the end of 10 years you have nothing to show for that money spent

But if you spend 1,200,000 baht for a House or condo......you have the house/condo at the end of the 10 years ....NO taxes, Maintenance (Minimal if new), and no worries about landlord, rent increases etc

Renting you take the short view .....saving a few dollars

So if your single/ girlfriend, are 50 or younger, living on a teachers salary, and NO money....... RENTING may be the way to go

BUT for me, retired, over 60, family of 4, lived here over 12 yrs, buying was a "No Brainer" (plus I didn't put more than 10% of my wealth in the house....rest is in America!)

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

I've given you a CONCRETE example of how ownership beats renting for a 10 year period IN THAILAND.....you've given a fictitious 6% return on some investment and can't even back it up! Why not say you can get a 10% or 20% return.....equally fictitious return to justify your position. And even at that there is a diminishing return over the years as you still have to pay rent

you mean this "concrete" example?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885270-owning-vs-renting-the-basic-economics/page-2#entry10291608

Yes....and even if you invest at 6% you STILL have to pay rent and deal with rent INCREASES! In addition to taxes on that income!

[sirineou]

Google Is Your Friend ...

No offence, but I'm not about to be accused of promoting an investment when there is a possibility of being sued if it goes bad..... I think it's against forum rules too.

Problem solved, Just say

XYZ investment has historically returned a X% and here is a link, Of course that's no indication of future performance so take care to do your own due diligence..

I am waiting with baited breath, but hurry I am feeling dizzy

I am not doing your legwork for you! If you're too lazy to do a bit of research, that's your problem and your loss -- sorry

There is a strong tendency for posters generally to arrive in the forum with their ideas already fixed and I am not interested in converting anyone to any specific concept. I posted an alternative, if you don't like it, don't do it. If you like the idea - do the research.......

Me thinks you need to be careful you could hurt your self with all this quick stepping

Ok then

If you are going to make unsupported statements

then I will make one too

You are wrong, and I am not going to do your work and show you how.

[jpinx]

IF you are going to live in Thailand more then 10 years and

IF you have a family you want to give stability to and

IF you have the money to buy

Then buying property or building a house is the way to go....WHY?

Renting at 10,000 bath/month would cost you 1,200,000 Baht.....AND at the end of 10 years you have nothing to show for that money spent

But if you spend 1,200,000 baht for a House or condo......you have the house/condo at the end of the 10 years ....NO taxes, Maintenance (Minimal if new), and no worries about landlord, rent increases etc

Renting you take the short view .....saving a few dollars

So if your single/ girlfriend, are 50 or younger, living on a teachers salary, and NO money....... RENTING may be the way to go

BUT for me, retired, over 60, family of 4, lived here over 12 yrs, buying was a "No Brainer" (plus I didn't put more than 10% of my wealth in the house....rest is in America!)

I've given you a CONCRETE example of how ownership beats renting for a 10 year period IN THAILAND.....you've given a fictitious 6% return on some investment and can't even back it up! Why not say you can get a 10% or 20% return.....equally fictitious return to justify your position. And even at that there is a diminishing return over the years as you still have to pay rent

you mean this "concrete" example?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885270-owning-vs-renting-the-basic-economics/page-2#entry10291608

Yes....and even if you invest at 6% you STILL have to pay rent and deal with rent INCREASES!

Your example was far from concrete - no substantiation of any of your figures. I can tell you that my rent has not increased in 6 years -- and that is a concrete fact.

[WorkingTourist]

I am not doing your legwork for you! If you're too lazy to do a bit of research, that's your problem and your loss -- sorry

What a load of bullshіt.

You made a claim that you cannot prove and now you’re digging further by stating it might be against forum rules, despite the pinned “interest rates” thread in the investment forum, and of course you might be sued, or you can’t be bothered to do the legwork for other members (to prove your own claims), etc.

Put up or shut up!

[jpinx]

I am not doing your legwork for you! If you're too lazy to do a bit of research, that's your problem and your loss -- sorry

What a load of bullshіt.

You made a claim that you cannot prove and now you’re digging further by stating it might be against forum rules, despite the pinned “interest rates” thread in the investment forum, and of course you might be sued, or you can’t be bothered to do the legwork for other members (to prove your own claims), etc.

Put up or shut up!

the only bullshit here is that pile you dropped about the 6% rate not being available !! haha!!

Did you even bother to look before you spouted that?

[WorkingTourist]

the only bullshit here is that pile you dropped about the 6% rate not being available !! haha!!

I said 5% over the next 10 years is optimistic, so if this is our figure, we should also use an optimistic property appreciation model.

To which you replied: Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully.

[jpinx]

the only bullshit here is that pile you dropped about the 6% rate not being available !! haha!!

I said 5% over the next 10 years is optimistic, so if this is our figure, we should also use an optimistic property appreciation model.

To which you replied: Actually not optimistic. You can get over 6% fixed term 5 years if you look carefully.

Did you look carefully? It would appear not. Did you even look at all? Or search through the other threads that exist about investments?

[beachproperty]

Your example was far from concrete - no substantiation of any of your figures. I can tell you that my rent has not increased in 6 years -- and that is a concrete fact.

Well let's get concrete......How much is your rent (that hasn't been raised in 6 years), How big is it , is it a house or condo, where?

[WorkingTourist]

jpinx: All you need to do is show us an “over 6% fixed term 5 years” and we’re all happy.

Instead you’re derailing the thread with insults and preposterous statements like you can’t tell us because you fear getting sued.

[Airalee]

Then there is the furniture aspect. Your going to end up on some crappy hard as concrete bed and usually cheap Thai made furniture. Again your at the control of your land lords tastes and NOT yours..who wants to go through life like that? Sure you can buy your stuff but that drops rental availability by 70% since most condos are furnished..and then you have to relocate when your landlord ups the rent by 50%

In the last condo I rented, the landlord was happy to move the "hard as concrete" bed out so that I could bring my own in. The rest of the furniture was good enough (ikea/index). She never raised my rent once. After 2 years, I moved out and was refunded 100% of my deposit. The unit sat empty for almost a year before being rented again...for the same price. My current landlord has just discounted my rent by 7% in order to keep me as a tenant,

Supply, meet demand.

[jpinx]

jpinx: All you need to do is show us an “over 6% fixed term 5 years” and we’re all happy.

Instead you’re derailing the thread with insults and preposterous statements like you can’t tell us because you fear getting sued.

OK -- this has gone far enough -- I strongly recommend that you use your energies to research bank rates before talking about them.

The topic is "...Owning vs Renting..." and the bank interest is only one aspect of that. Many people prefer to own, for reasons of the traditions of their background. Doing the comparison in real terms is a highly personal affair, every persons situation is different. Maybe some people will read this thread and take the trouble to do a little research and arithmetic to make sure they are coming to the conclusion which really works best for them.

[mcfish]

Then there is the furniture aspect. Your going to end up on some crappy hard as concrete bed and usually cheap Thai made furniture. Again your at the control of your land lords tastes and NOT yours..who wants to go through life like that? Sure you can buy your stuff but that drops rental availability by 70% since most condos are furnished..and then you have to relocate when your landlord ups the rent by 50%

In the last condo I rented, the landlord was happy to move the "hard as concrete" bed out so that I could bring my own in. The rest of the furniture was good enough (ikea/index). She never raised my rent once. After 2 years, I moved out and was refunded 100% of my deposit. The unit sat empty for almost a year before being rented again...for the same price. My current landlord has just discounted my rent by 7% in order to keep me as a tenant,

Supply, meet demand.

So you going to drag this bed around every 2 years and pray the next place has descent furniture? And then be excited about a 50 dollars discount on monthly rent? Why not just say you don't have the money to buy because your posts are indicative of that.

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[jpinx]

Then there is the furniture aspect. Your going to end up on some crappy hard as concrete bed and usually cheap Thai made furniture. Again your at the control of your land lords tastes and NOT yours..who wants to go through life like that? Sure you can buy your stuff but that drops rental availability by 70% since most condos are furnished..and then you have to relocate when your landlord ups the rent by 50%

In the last condo I rented, the landlord was happy to move the "hard as concrete" bed out so that I could bring my own in. The rest of the furniture was good enough (ikea/index). She never raised my rent once. After 2 years, I moved out and was refunded 100% of my deposit. The unit sat empty for almost a year before being rented again...for the same price. My current landlord has just discounted my rent by 7% in order to keep me as a tenant,

Supply, meet demand.

So you going to drag this bed around every 2 years and pray the next place has descent furniture? And then be excited about a 50 dollars discount on monthly rent? Why not just say you don't have the money to buy because your posts are indicative of that.

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

What's with the arrogant attitude? This is about the choice between renting and owning -- not how rich someone appears to be in *your* eyes.

[2fishin2]

Sure, renting is great if you like giving your money away to another person for their own needs. So you're saying that only irrational people purchase houses? Sometimes I wonder how you guys rationalize life in general....

[mcfish]

Then there is the furniture aspect. Your going to end up on some crappy hard as concrete bed and usually cheap Thai made furniture. Again your at the control of your land lords tastes and NOT yours..who wants to go through life like that? Sure you can buy your stuff but that drops rental availability by 70% since most condos are furnished..and then you have to relocate when your landlord ups the rent by 50%

In the last condo I rented, the landlord was happy to move the "hard as concrete" bed out so that I could bring my own in. The rest of the furniture was good enough (ikea/index). She never raised my rent once. After 2 years, I moved out and was refunded 100% of my deposit. The unit sat empty for almost a year before being rented again...for the same price. My current landlord has just discounted my rent by 7% in order to keep me as a tenant,

Supply, meet demand.

So you going to drag this bed around every 2 years and pray the next place has descent furniture? And then be excited about a 50 dollars discount on monthly rent? Why not just say you don't have the money to buy because your posts are indicative of that.

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

What's with the arrogant attitude? This is about the choice between renting and owning -- not how rich someone appears to be in *your* eyes.

You're right, I overstepped the mark. my apologies to the poster

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Enoon]

jpinx: All you need to do is show us an “over 6% fixed term 5 years” and we’re all happy.

Instead you’re derailing the thread with insults and preposterous statements like you can’t tell us because you fear getting sued.

I don't know anything about being clever with money, but maybe he's talking about a 5 year fixed peer to peer lending deal?

The top three "best buys" are quoted at 5,6 and 7% in the UK.

[Airalee]

Your example was far from concrete - no substantiation of any of your figures. I can tell you that my rent has not increased in 6 years -- and that is a concrete fact.

Well let's get concrete......How much is your rent (that hasn't been raised in 6 years), How big is it , is it a house or condo, where?

I can show you numerous examples in Chiang Mai on Chiang Mai Properties website, where the property is *currently rented* and also listed for sale, where the numbers just don't pencil out in favor of buying. I cannot find any where it does favor buying.

฿4,500,000 condos renting (and currently rented) for ฿20,000 are plentiful.

If someone was buying them using a mortgage with 0% down (20% is required for that level by most banks but I want to compare apples with apples as a renter doesn't need such a large down payment) the mortgage payment plus monthly fees would be more than 30,000 baht. It doesn't take a genius to see that if one were to buy it with a mortgage, in order to rent it out, that person would be, in essence, subsidizing their tenants living costs.

The current crop of homedebtors...erm...homeowners can bleat about how much they have made in appreciation but I only concern myself with the numbers as they sit today...and at this time, those numbers greatly favor renting.

Mortgage rates and terms taken from kasikorn banks website

http://www.kasikornbank.com/EN/Personal/Loans/KHomeLoan/Pages/KHomeLoanKasikorn.aspx

Kasikorn MRR rate is currently 7.87%

http://www.efinancethai.com/otherfin/loan.aspx

Of course, if purchased for cash, then opportunity cost would be calculated but that would rely on unknown variables by both the Bulls and the Bears.

I would like to ask however, that the houseowners/debtors refrain from their tired, petty jabs at the renters with regards to their financial status, and also give up their emotional arguments "it's a home if you buy it and a house/hovel if you rent it" because it really just makes you look desperate.