15-year old accidentally shot dead by warring motorcyclists in Bangkok

[Bluespunk]

@55jay

Erm...say what?

[Jonmarleesco]

An accident? Not when the tragedy resulted from a bunch of morons running wild on motorcycles and armed with deadly weapons. I assume, when they are caught, the charge will be wilful murder, or whatever, not mere manslaughter.

[55Jay]

@55jay

Erm...say what?

That's what I thought.

[Bluespunk]

@55jay

Erm...say what?

That's what I thought.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Are you sure you responded to the intended post because the post you made has no relation to the one I posted.

[mickyboy]

whats also sad he was 15 and the bread winner his life not even got going and he working just go to show in Thailand you never know what going to happen next with all the young guns about thinking they are such tuff boys shooting at each other because they got the wrong school uniform on

[55Jay]

@55jay

Erm...say what?

That's what I thought.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Are you sure you responded to the intended post because the post you made has no relation to the one I posted.

OK, whatever.

[Bluespunk]

@55jay

Erm...say what?

That's what I thought.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Are you sure you responded to the intended post because the post you made has no relation to the one I posted.

OK, whatever.

Check my post and then explain your rant, because at no point did I refer to America or disease.

I certainly did not mention guns or Walmart.

I have no idea what you are on about.

[mango66]

I didnt hear, that RTP concluded it was suicide !!

did you ??

motorcy drivers where of couse Burmese !!

[zyphodb]

I wonder if the parents will be told to go home and make a new one, or not to worry, as they will be back in 30 days & maybe luckier next time.

I wonder what has traumatised and dehumanised you to the extent that you could make such a callous comment.

I think you will find that jucel was paraphrasing what Thai police or judge are alleged to have said to the Witheridge family at the koh Tao murder trial, cynical perhaps but not ment callously i'd have said....

[Artisi]

I wonder if the parents will be told to go home and make a new one, or not to worry, as they will be back in 30 days & maybe luckier next time.

I wonder what has traumatised and dehumanised you to the extent that you could make such a callous comment.

I think you will find that jucel was paraphrasing what Thai police or judge are alleged to have said to the Witheridge family at the koh Tao murder trial, cynical perhaps but not ment callously i'd have said....

Correct, although in bad taste.....

[laislica]

I wonder if the parents will be told to go home and make a new one, or not to worry, as they will be back in 30 days & maybe luckier next time.

I wonder what has traumatised and dehumanised you to the extent that you could make such a callous comment.

I think you will find that jucel was paraphrasing what Thai police or judge are alleged to have said to the Witheridge family at the koh Tao murder trial, cynical perhaps but not ment callously i'd have said....

Correct, although in bad taste.....

Well about 18 months ago my stepson aged 19 was murdered in on of those school gang fights.

He was waiting for a bus to school with a friend and a car with 4 punks turned uo with the usual baseball like bats and guns.

He was shot in the stomach and died later.

I can tell you that when I read some of the brutal and callous posts that some members made I felt sick!

I fail to understand why members post the way the do, many showing little sympathy or compassion.

It is my sincere hope that his family never hear of this forum or some of the posts on here.

It was/is a tragedy and the impact to his family unmesurable and most unfortunately, the perps will probably never be caught

and if caught may never receive appropriate punishment. So no real closure for the family.

There may well be no compensation and his family and friends will have to foot the funeral expenses.

Why don't us "rich" farangs start an NGO dedicated to educating the youngsters into a better way of life?

Why don't we ask our wives to take part and lobby the Government?

From what I read, lobbyists are the only ones in control in the USA, their Government only does what the lobbyists bribe authorise?

Sounds like a powerful was to go?

OK off topic and should maybe the subject of a different post after the appropriate research of Thailand Law so please don;t respond to this part of my post.

Back to topic,

please show respect in your posts and consider how you would feel if it were your son who was dead and you would read the post you intend to make.

There are no accidental posts!

[EyesWideOpen]

The American Disease...

Poor or no gun control and every "Bird Brain hoodlum" armed to the teeth...

??? Thailand's gun control is far more strict than America.

Yet every bird brain here seems to have a gun, and little

reluctance to use it when they lose their temper... Giving

Thailand one of the highest gun homicide rates in the

world. Yet for a law abiding Thai it is almost impossible

to get a gun.

[Bluespunk]

The American Disease...

Poor or no gun control and every "Bird Brain hoodlum" armed to the teeth...

??? Thailand's gun control is far more strict than America.

Yet every bird brain here seems to have a gun, and little

reluctance to use it when they lose their temper... Giving

Thailand one of the highest gun homicide rates in the

world. Yet for a law abiding Thai it is almost impossible

to get a gun.

Ah, that's the post 55jay attributed to me [basil B's that is] and then was not able to admit their mistake...

[55Jay]

I have no idea what you are on about.

Are you sure you responded to the intended post because the post you made has no relation to the one I posted.

OK, whatever.

Check my post and then explain your rant, because at no point did I refer to America or disease.

I certainly did not mention guns or Walmart.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Damn, you are right. My apologies, Bluespunk.

[Rimmer]

A couple of post with an altered member name in the reply have been removed.

[55Jay]

The American Disease...

Poor or no gun control and every "Bird Brain hoodlum" armed to the teeth...

??? Thailand's gun control is far more strict than America.

Yet every bird brain here seems to have a gun, and little

reluctance to use it when they lose their temper... Giving

Thailand one of the highest gun homicide rates in the

world. Yet for a law abiding Thai it is almost impossible

to get a gun.

Ah, that's the post 55jay attributed to me [basil B's that is] and then was not able to admit their mistake...

Correct on the post gaff. Appears you knew what I was talking about but played it out. Fair enough I guess.

I acknowledged my mistake before I saw this post ^, but wasn't fast enough.

[balo]

It could have been me or you, driving in the Bangkok traffic. A scary thought.

[Bluespunk]

The American Disease...

Poor or no gun control and every "Bird Brain hoodlum" armed to the teeth...

??? Thailand's gun control is far more strict than America.

Yet every bird brain here seems to have a gun, and little

reluctance to use it when they lose their temper... Giving

Thailand one of the highest gun homicide rates in the

world. Yet for a law abiding Thai it is almost impossible

to get a gun.

Ah, that's the post 55jay attributed to me [basil B's that is] and then was not able to admit their mistake...

Correct on the post gaff. Appears you knew what I was talking about but played it out. Fair enough I guess.

I acknowledged my mistake before I saw this post ^, but wasn't fast enough.

It happens but should make clear I was neither aware of basil b's post or playing anything out. Until I read EWO post I was mystified about your response to my post.

[laislica]

It could have been me or you, driving in the Bangkok traffic. A scary thought.

As I have posted before, I have met many Thai's who become nervous if they see a group of kids in different school uniforms forming up on the streets.

Thay tell me they quickly get away from what may become a very dangerous place.

These hooligans open fire into a public bus a couple of years ago trying to kill a rival student.

Instead they killed a nurse on her way to work to save lives.

I wish there would be follow up on these terrible outrages but they are quickly forgotten by most except those most directly affected.

The press here are lazy, but that may be true everywhere?

[farcanell]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

[Balance]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

Hey folks

the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second-degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1303#ixzz3xGTGuiI7

The is for the U.S., where murder statutes are established by each state legislature. Bottom line: the police need to find the punk kid and the court needs to lock him up for the rest of his life. This might serve as some sort of deterrent.

[farcanell]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

Hey folks

the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second-degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1303#ixzz3xGTGuiI7

The is for the U.S., where murder statutes are established by each state legislature. Bottom line: the police need to find the punk kid and the court needs to lock him up for the rest of his life. This might serve as some sort of deterrent.

Balance, I certainly hope your right, should they actually find these kids... I really do. With actions like this, the streets will never be safe.

That said, I checked further into your supplied link, vs the ones I used yesterday,mand I still feel it's murky territory, with the charge determined by the size of the children's parents wallet

Murder is the killing of a person with intent malice and a forethought ... And anyone who gets in the way

I would expect that the argument would be that there was no intent to kill any third part, and that then would invalidate murder

Second degree murder is such a murder without intent, such as in a heat of passion , or a quarrel or

sudden fight

Manslaugther can be taken off the table, I think, because "malice" should be able to be present.

I shall see if I can find something on Thai law

[Balance]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

Hey folks

the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second-degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1303#ixzz3xGTGuiI7

The is for the U.S., where murder statutes are established by each state legislature. Bottom line: the police need to find the punk kid and the court needs to lock him up for the rest of his life. This might serve as some sort of deterrent.

Balance, I certainly hope your right, should they actually find these kids... I really do. With actions like this, the streets will never be safe.

That said, I checked further into your supplied link, vs the ones I used yesterday,mand I still feel it's murky territory, with the charge determined by the size of the children's parents wallet

Murder is the killing of a person with intent malice and a forethought ... And anyone who gets in the way

I would expect that the argument would be that there was no intent to kill any third part, and that then would invalidate murder

Second degree murder is such a murder without intent, such as in a heat of passion , or a quarrel or

sudden fight

Manslaugther can be taken off the table, I think, because "malice" should be able to be present.

I shall see if I can find something on Thai law

Farcanell, the motivation for my original post was the word "accident" in the banner, and the fact that my understanding of "accidents" in both Thai culture and Thai law is that no one is culpable for an accident. It sense is that it is simply "bad luck", or wrong place, wrong time. I wish you luck with finding some in Thai law. I would be curious to know how they view it.

[farcanell]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

Hey folks

the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second-degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1303#ixzz3xGTGuiI7

The is for the U.S., where murder statutes are established by each state legislature. Bottom line: the police need to find the punk kid and the court needs to lock him up for the rest of his life. This might serve as some sort of deterrent.

Balance, I certainly hope your right, should they actually find these kids... I really do. With actions like this, the streets will never be safe.

That said, I checked further into your supplied link, vs the ones I used yesterday,mand I still feel it's murky territory, with the charge determined by the size of the children's parents wallet

Murder is the killing of a person with intent malice and a forethought ... And anyone who gets in the way

I would expect that the argument would be that there was no intent to kill any third part, and that then would invalidate murder

Second degree murder is such a murder without intent, such as in a heat of passion , or a quarrel or

sudden fight

Manslaugther can be taken off the table, I think, because "malice" should be able to be present.

I shall see if I can find something on Thai law

Farcanell, the motivation for my original post was the word "accident" in the banner, and the fact that my understanding of "accidents" in both Thai culture and Thai law is that no one is culpable for an accident. It sense is that it is simply "bad luck", or wrong place, wrong time. I wish you luck with finding some in Thai law. I would be curious to know how they view it.

Balance.

It took some reading... But.... Your 100% right....the word " Accident" should never have been used.

An accident causing harm, might be something like an air conditioner falling off a wall, killing someone

However, under the section defining murder, example 6 states that if the killing was made for the purpose of preparing or facilitating the commission of another crime, then it's murder

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the thugs were " preparing" to commit another crime, so a prosecutor should definitely begin, by seeking the death penalty ( in Thailand, pleading guilty would get them 15 to 20 inside... But pleading not guilty,and loosing, would get them the death penalty)

Then the legal system can decide if it should be reclassified as a lessor crime

So... Back to the use of " accidentally"... The reporters need to read some of the stuff I just waded thru.

[Balance]

Calling this an accident is a real travesty. Killing someone while trying to kill someone else is murder!

I suspect it would be manslaughter as he was not the target.

If it was deliberately aimed at him, then I would agree it would be murder, but he was not involved in any way. Just an innocent bystander.

what ??? missed target murder in the commission of a armed crime is still murder , why do you try call it something else ? manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident . this was no accident . sounds like you are a jailhouse lawyer................ a poor one at best..

My condolences to the Thai family for the loss of their son and bread winner.

You have answered yourself for me.

quote "manslaughter requires no intent of harm to anyone , as in a accident".

The 15 year old was not involved in any way, therefore it cannot be proved as murder which is premeditated as in some is try to deliberately kill another.

FYI a link to a website defining the term manslaughter (I think it is describing American law).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Manslaughter

The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.

Manslaughter is a distinct crime and is not considered a lesser degree of murder. The essential distinction between the two offenses is that malice aforethought must be present for murder, whereas it must be absent for manslaughter. Manslaughter is not as serious a crime as murder. On the other hand, it is not a justifiable or excusable killing for which little or no punishment is imposed.

At Common Law, as well as under current statutes, the offense can be either voluntary or Involuntary Manslaughter. The main difference between the two is that voluntary manslaughter requires an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm while involuntary manslaughter does not. Premeditation or deliberation, however, are elements of murder and not of manslaughter. Some states have abandoned the use of adjectives to describe different forms of the offense and, instead, simply divide the offense into varying degrees.

As you have no idea of who I am and what I know about calling me a jail-house lawyer is annoying, but no more than I would expect from you. If I reply to posts like your I usually try to do a little research before I post.

Now in the OP it said that the 15 year old was in the back of the pickup and the others were on motorbikes, chasing each other with one person intent on killing another. Nothing to do with the 15 year old or the pickup truck and driver.

In my opinion if they were intent on killing the 15 year old they would have got as close as they could to the pickup to make sure they didn't miss.

Now that is my opinion as I wasn't there. Were you there and witnessed the whole incident, or like me did you get you information from the OP and come to your own conclusion?

This would be first degree murder in the US (look under the sub heading "Intent")....http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

In the UK this would be murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law

Thailand may be different.

What a sad waste of a young life. I hope that the offender is captured and charged/convicted/punished appropriately.

Whilst hoping that the full force of the law be brought against these thugs, whom see to act with impunity, it pains me to have to disagree with the posters above...,because it gets worse, I think ( better for the shooter)

Manslaughter is unpremedited murder. ( done because someone got in your way?) but it is intentional... ( fifth word in supplied definition)

So... Without knowing all the levels assigned to the taking of a life,my rom first degree murder to justifiable homicide, I would suspect that this would be classed as second degree manslaugther.

Anglo American law is called called just that because they are similar and reflective in most ways.

So, no matter what country you come from... it's quite unfortunately not murder ( unless it can be proved that the boy was the target)... Especially if you come from America.

Hey folks

the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second-degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1303#ixzz3xGTGuiI7

The is for the U.S., where murder statutes are established by each state legislature. Bottom line: the police need to find the punk kid and the court needs to lock him up for the rest of his life. This might serve as some sort of deterrent.

Balance, I certainly hope your right, should they actually find these kids... I really do. With actions like this, the streets will never be safe.

That said, I checked further into your supplied link, vs the ones I used yesterday,mand I still feel it's murky territory, with the charge determined by the size of the children's parents wallet

Murder is the killing of a person with intent malice and a forethought ... And anyone who gets in the way

I would expect that the argument would be that there was no intent to kill any third part, and that then would invalidate murder

Second degree murder is such a murder without intent, such as in a heat of passion , or a quarrel or

sudden fight

Manslaugther can be taken off the table, I think, because "malice" should be able to be present.

I shall see if I can find something on Thai law

Farcanell, the motivation for my original post was the word "accident" in the banner, and the fact that my understanding of "accidents" in both Thai culture and Thai law is that no one is culpable for an accident. It sense is that it is simply "bad luck", or wrong place, wrong time. I wish you luck with finding some in Thai law. I would be curious to know how they view it.

Balance.

It took some reading... But.... Your 100% right....the word " Accident" should never have been used.

An accident causing harm, might be something like an air conditioner falling off a wall, killing someone

However, under the section defining murder, example 6 states that if the killing was made for the purpose of preparing or facilitating the commission of another crime, then it's murder

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the thugs were " preparing" to commit another crime, so a prosecutor should definitely begin, by seeking the death penalty ( in Thailand, pleading guilty would get them 15 to 20 inside... But pleading not guilty,and loosing, would get them the death penalty)

Then the legal system can decide if it should be reclassified as a lessor crime

So... Back to the use of " accidentally"... The reporters need to read some of the stuff I just waded thru.

Farcanell

Very interesting. Thanks for the research. Of course, the police will most likely never find the kid who fired the shot.

An article in the Post a few years ago was about a driver who showed up at a school and was so drunk he could not stand up. One of the teachers called the company and was told by the owner that she would send another driver, but the first driver and the bus still had to be paid for. I marked it off to culture shock on my part and moved on. It seems that liability law is very thin, to say the least.