blanes2007 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I mean asking the people in a small thai shop or (especially) restaurant if they could serve me Tnx in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I would add to that.... Nice legs...what time do they open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 เปิดไหม Perd Mai? (Don't pronounce the "r" and make the P sound more like a B, i.e., do not enunciate.) Literally: Open, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Bert Mai ? Sorry I don't write Thai I'm still learning the alphabet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Bert lao mai? Open already? Mai shows it's a question, it doesn't mean no in the sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinneil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Flash the cash that usually works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonw8uk Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 perd reu yang khrab เปิดหรือยังครับ are you open yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [Bert lao mai? Open already? Mai shows it's a question, it doesn't mean no in the sentence.] Perd laew young เปิดแล้วยัง NOT เปิดแล้วไหม perd laew mai is incorrect. Mai indicates a question but you can not just stick it everywhere. ไหม mai is ไม่ mai (no) in question form, high tone. That's why the literal translation of เปิดไหม often pronounced as เปิดไม๊, is in fact: Open, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunBENQ Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Bert lao mai? Open already? Mai shows it's a question, it doesn't mean no in the sentence. เปิดแล้วไหม bpèrt láew măi (poet laeo mai) Listen: http://www.clickthai-online.de/cgi-bin/playmp3.pl?226101 http://www.clickthai-online.de/cgi-bin/playmp3.pl?319686 http://www.clickthai-online.de/cgi-bin/playmp3.pl?382833 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [เปิดแล้วไหม] Again this is incorrect and never used. Use in stead: เปิดแล้วยัง Or frequently shortened to just เปิดยัง Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang95 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [เปิดแล้วไหม] Again this is incorrect and never used. Use in stead: เปิดแล้วยัง Or frequently shortened to just เปิดยัง ขอบคุณครับ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Jeez this type of thread always goes the same way........ Boring in the extreme. The OP obviously doesn't read and write Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I think that it is best to learn complete sentences then in time cut the words you don't want to use. You open(ed) shop (แล้ว) or yet. คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ I am not trying to gainsay Tahnil he is a native speaker, I would give the same advice to an English teacher. Naturally you wont be saying all that when you know more. Its like teaching people to say : "aryeropenyet" before "Are you open yet." Many Thais think that 'gonna' is one word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [I think that it is best to learn complete sentences then in time cut the words you don't want to use. You open(ed) shop (แล้ว) or yet. คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ] In my opinion, the long form sentence is just more gibberish for a beginner to forget. Beginners learn small pieces better and then start to put them together, not the other way around. คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ in English word for word is, "sir, have you already opened your shop or not?" Compare it to, "are you open?" Ask yourself, if you didn't know English, which one would you learn and remember to use first? Probably, just "open?" It's only in time and with much more learning will you maybe care to say more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanes2007 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thanks, very useful. The OP obviously doesn't read and write Thai. true, but the OP checks the right pronunciation by copying Thai text and pasting it here www.... thai2english....com เปิด แล้ว ไหม bpèrt láew măi ไหม măi Do you...? ; Did you...? เปิด bpèrt open ; turn on ; switch on แล้ว láew and ; and then ; and after that already (used a general marker that indicates a specified action has happened or state has been attained) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker92 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Nice information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [I think that it is best to learn complete sentences then in time cut the words you don't want to use. You open(ed) shop (แล้ว) or yet. คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ] In my opinion, the long form sentence is just more gibberish for a beginner to forget. Beginners learn small pieces better and then start to put them together, not the other way around. คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ in English word for word is, "sir, have you already opened your shop or not?" Compare it to, "are you open?" Ask yourself, if you didn't know English, which one would you learn and remember to use first? Probably, just "open?" It's only in time and with much more learning will you maybe care to say more. Good lord, we are completely at odds. You posted the thread on beautiful Thai but don't take in its message. ครับ and 'sir' are by no means the same, ครับผม is more like sir but I don't think that I would tie it down. My generation and group still uses ครับ a great deal and we ไหว้ one another as well. As to learning in small doses, you can't get much smaller than ประธาน กริยา กรรม ภาคขยายกริยา คำถาม babies in English start with "The cat sat on the mat". You seem to be suggesting that people are not capable of reflecting their own grammar in Thai? If someone asks a question like this they are quite capable of recognising a sentence. The translation of คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยัง is "Have you opened your shop yet? There is no 'already' there. Are you Jewish? Already is used by Jewish mums, " You don't visit anymore already" . Here I don't use แล้ว to mean 'earlier than expected' but as I tried to show in my Thai; แล้ว makes open into opened. I hope you won't be offended but are you ลูกครึ่ง ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanes2007 Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Nether ever learn long form sentences in Thai! Only basic words and combinations! the more words are in a your phrase the difficult for Thais to understand because of your wrong tones pronunciation (in 99% cases) => to many alternatives for instance mispronounced "laeo" may be understood as "turn" and so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [The translation of คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยัง is "Have you opened your shop yet? There is no 'already' there. Are you Jewish? Already is used by Jewish mums, " You don't visit anymore already" . Here I don't use แล้ว to mean 'earlier than expected' but as I tried to show in my Thai; แล้ว makes open into opened.] คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ คุณ = you เปิด = open ร้าน = shop แล้ว = already หรือ = or ยัง = not yet ครับ = sir You open shop already or not yet, sir? However you want to rewrite that in English. เปิดไหมครับ เปิด = open ไหม = or not ครับ = sir Open or not, sir? = Are you open? [You posted the thread on beautiful Thai but don't take in its message.] You're merely inquiring if the shop is open. Succinct is considered beautiful in Thai. A long drawn out sentence here is simply awkward. i.e., verbose. I assure you that NO native Thai speakers would ask it the way you suggest. [As to learning in small doses, you can't get much smaller than ประธาน กริยา กรรม ภาคขยายกริยา คำถาม babies in English start with "The cat sat on the mat". You seem to be suggesting that people are not capable of reflecting their own grammar in Thai? If someone asks a question like this they are quite capable of recognising a sentence.] That is why you sound so awkward, because you're translating English to Thai. [I hope you won't be offended but are you ลูกครึ่ง ? ] No I'm not. Bonus: [ My generation and group still uses ครับ a great deal and we ไหว้ one another as well.] As a seventy year old elder and as a customer you do NOT ไหว้ a shop keeper. UNLESS it's somebody of your age or older and he is your acquaintance or somebody of high status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Can we keep,to the point, I did not say I ไหว้ shopkeepers, for you to deduce from "my generation and friends ไหว้ one another, that I ไหว้ shopkeepers is inane. Who gives a damn what Thais would say? We are not Thai, most people, present company excepted I presume, want foreigners to speak nicely. I think for very good reason; you cannot offend anybody or be misunderstood if you know what you are saying. Often in answer to a question รู้แล้ว ไปแล้ว it seems to be already but not in เปิดแล้ว because to say are you already open ? 'Is to give the message " I didn't expect you to be 'open already' " Yet' is not required, if you want; "I didn't expect you to be open yet" Apparently already is not confined to Woody Allen films, my dictionary says that it is N.Am eg. Give it to me already. Needless to say this is not my parlance, neither does it fit the bill for แล้ว I think. I am being pedantic I know; when I first came to Thailand I learned the use of already in directly translating every word of Thai but I never saw it as English. Nobody I know in England uses already, except as defined in the dictionary. Now we are simply discussing parlance and we differ in that respect. The best way to translate คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยัง เปิดแล้วหรือยัง ร้านเปิดไหม is : This is what you might say when you want to ask a shopkeeper if he is open for business or not. In this manner no pointless discussions are needed. You could add that the answer might be: เปิด เปิดแล้ว in the affirmative and ไม่ ยัง in the negative. ทำแล้วหรือ gives the option of what seems to me a rather triumphant ทำแล้ว (done it already)which, since the question needed to be asked, seems justified. For your information the grammar of Thai is English grammar, putting English into Thai is natural. I will give you a bonus; instead is one word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [Who gives a damn what Thais would say? We are not Thai, most people, present company excepted I presume, want foreigners to speak nicely. I think for very good reason; you cannot offend anybody or be misunderstood if you know what you are saying.] But you don't know what you are saying! How about speaking nicely and CORRECTLY? What if it's a zoo? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ What if it's a bank? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ And if it's a gas station? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ A government office? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ At the theatre? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ NongNooch Garden? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ Beaches in the military base, Sattahip? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ, you ask เปิดไหมครับ None of the above is a shop or ร้าน, they'll laugh at the silly Farang. And what if you're asking if it'll be open at a certain time in the future, tomorrow, next week, month, year? You don't ask คุณเปิดร้านแล้วหรือยังครับ or "have you opened yet?" You ask, "will you be open," still the same เปิดไหมครับ What if it's late near closing time? How bright is it to ask, "have you opened yet?" You ask, "are you STILL open?" ยังเปิดไหมครับ Or, simply, "are you open?" again เปิดไหมครับ [Who gives a damn what Thais would say?] Then don't. Make a complete fool of yourself. Everybody must be used to it by now. Thais are very tolerant people, mai pen rai means never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I mean asking the people in a small thai shop or (especially) restaurant if they could serve me Tnx in advance Gosh, a last word freak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I mean asking the people in a small thai shop or (especially) restaurant if they could serve meTnx in advance[/quote I mean asking the people in a small thai shop or (especially) restaurant if they could serve meTnx in advance For a moment there I thought that I had invented shop restaurant. เปิดบริการ springs to mind for non specific services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotholes Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Nether ever learn long form sentences in Thai! Only basic words and combinations! the more words are in a your phrase the difficult for Thais to understand because of your wrong tones pronunciation (in 99% cases) => to many alternatives for instance mispronounced "laeo" may be understood as "turn" and so long I also subscribe to the idea that as a beginner, we should use just enough words to make sense to the person we are speaking to. Adding more than necessary will backfire on the beginner as it usually results in our audience having no clue what we are trying to say. I see no reason in using (overly) long sentences that end up sounding contrived to the thai listener anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnil Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 [I mean asking the people in a small thai shop or (especially) restaurant if they could serve me] [Gosh, a last word freak!] [For a moment there I thought that I had invented shop restaurant.] What part of "what if" don't you understand? And answer this from my post that you conveniently skipped: What if it's late near closing time? How bright is it to ask, "have you opened yet?" You ask, "are you STILL open?" ยังเปิดไหมครับ Or, simply, "are you open?" again เปิดไหมครับ You came up with a verbose line that the OP himself commented: Quote Nether ever learn long form sentences in Thai! Only basic words and combinations! the more words are in a your phrase the difficult for Thais to understand because of your wrong tones pronunciation (in 99% cases) => to many alternatives for instance mispronounced "laeo" may be understood as "turn" and so long End Quote As the OP pointed out, laew แล้ว is hard for a beginner to correctly pronounce. And now it's pointed out that it limits the applicability outside which you would not look too bright. It's also pointed out that by unnecessarily adding ran ร้าน, the line becomes even more limited in usefulness. Most of all, it is pointed out that as a guiding principle, Thais have a penchant for succinctness and brevity. Something the OP interestingly picked up but not tgeezer who claims to be the expert here. Succinctness as apposed to verbosity is also a principle of smart English. But never "tgeezer" who insists on adding แล้ว or already even as he claims only a Jew would say already in English. [เปิดบริการ springs to mind for non specific services.] Go ahead, say what you want, since you are of the opinion: "Who gives a damn what Thais would say?" Nobody should "give a damn what a tgeezer would say." Thankless, pompous and condescending, offensive, it would be nice if he actually practices what he writes: [ We are not Thai, most people, present company excepted I presume, want foreigners to speak nicely. I think for very good reason; you cannot offend anybody or be misunderstood if you know what you are saying.] But alas, he doesn't know what he's saying, in English much less Thai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Jeez this type of thread always goes the same way........ Boring in the extreme. See what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Jeez this type of thread always goes the same way........ Boring in the extreme. See what I mean? I don't know how you could possibly call this boring, a clash of generations is always good for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 เปิดไหม Perd Mai? (Don't pronounce the "r" and make the P sound more like a B, i.e., do not enunciate.) Literally: Open, no? A good idea would be not to forget the krap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aforek Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 [เปิดแล้วไหม] Again this is incorrect and never used. Use in stead: เปิดแล้วยัง Or frequently shortened to just เปิดยัง as I have heard from Thai people, เปิดยัง could be the best ; as for other examples, I have already heard " kin khao yang" , or " sook yang " ( ripe already ? ) ; too many " krap ", I never hear , I would say that Thai people I meet ( apart " sawadi krap " or " kop koun krap " ), never say krap, so do I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgeezer Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Aforek are you happy with that? เปิดยัง it isn't "open already" but is "open already" enough for you in English? Would you not say 'already' in a questioning tone? When you say เปิดยัง does it sound like a question to you? Do people say คุณ before your name? I don't go out much socially so don't know how people speak. There are more than fifteen people in my house this evening ranging in age from late teens to fifty, I am taking a break in my room waiting for two others to arrive and when I and the others greet them I am sure that there will be plenty of ครับ and ไหว้ . This is normal in spite of what you have observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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