Going Down: Businesses on Phuket’s famed Bangla Rd suffer as clientele dries up

[naruk]

The record number tourists are Chinese tour groups. They don't spend any money in Thailand so that is just bummer. I remember that a teacher at prince of Songkla university where I was a student once said "we don't need you westerner tourists when we have Russians and Chinese." Hope that she is happy now.

Seems an odd thing to say, since I've never met a Thai that doesn't consider Russians to be "westerners".

Maybe because the teacher was educated in Europe?

[12DrinkMore]

Well, many of these go-go bars can shutdown and die anyway, since they are prostitution venues and don't really attract anything positive. The best case scenario for Thailand is to transform its tourism industry to a more family oriented hub, instead of being a pedophile paradise for old western men. Nothing could be better than to send these former prostitutes back to their villages and start building up their future once and for all, and at the same time these low income lazy doers should return back to their home countries as well.

If Thailand is going to transform its economy for the better, it must do what is right and take the medical pill asap. Thais are basically one of the worst people to do business in terms of understanding economics and this transformation is indeed necessary.

Many of you guys are complaining that the Chinese aren't spending any money. They do in fact spend money and if you look in comparison how much they are making that makes them big buck spenders. They are also enjoying their vacations much better than an old westerner who much of the time only spends their holidays drinking cheap boos. No wonder why this place has become a stinking pig.

Very easy to tell bar girls to simply go back to their villages and earn 150 baht a day picking mango's. Thailand made its name on the entertainment business and hundreds of thousands of Thais have improved their standard of living doing so. Would you be happy to live on rice and what dad caught last nite ? It's easy to judge from an ivory tower. They have no future in the village, that's why they choose this way of life.

300 Baht a day.

[Shazdeb]

They screw tourists to the limit constantly. Now the govt., have elected to double the cost of a visa on arrival because visitors are not getting their visa from immigration prior to arrival. Well i thought that the VOA was all about convenience. Viet Nam and other nearby countries are going to be doing 'cartwheels' as spur of the moment tourists are going to see VOA Vietnam Bht 1000 VOA Thailand Bht 2000. But this is how Thais do business. Bungalow owners across the road from me 'jacked' the monthly rent up from Bht 7000 to Bht 12000 just because their neighbours were doing it. The bungalow has been empty for 10 months now, but they will not consider bring the rate down again.

I have seen landlords here that are unable to rent a property for over a year so there answer is to put the price up, I asked why you do like this ? answer " no rent one year must make up what I lost " serious?? you couldn't rent at the lower price because the price too high, I tell them make more cheap you will rent ... Nope !!! So many people just dont get it or dont want to face reality

[ICECOOL]

1. got too greedy and priced yourselves out of the market, same happened in walking street Pattaya

2. as above - price fixing cartels not allowing bars to drop their prices as they want too using threats and intimidation

3. The Chinese don't do bars, they might walk around looking but spend FA

Greed is destroying these places and the same patterns can be seen in Bangkok and Pattaya, as western visitors decline you will typically see the same destructive business pratice of increasing prices instead of rescueing tourism and the bar scene with reduced realistic pricing, supermarkets 7/11 and familymart are a good guide and a silid stake in the ground - if they didn't exist this country would be in ruins

fair pricing and your business will boom again

No sympathy at all. The last time I went to Phuket (about 4-5 years ago) I decided to have a look at one of the upstairs bars/go go and have a beer. Walked into the dimly lit venue and had a drinks menu stuck under my nose. I just ignored it and ordered a small Leo. They brought the bill with the beer and asked me to pay. When I looked at the bill it was 900 baht !! Tried to tell me first beer 900 and rest 90. I walked straight out the door despite some bar slag trying to block my way. Decided to try a second...this time I asked...500 baht first beer. Walked out and never went back.... Krabi for me if I head that way

[retarius]

Not much 'happiness' for these folk then?

[KamalaRider]

Well, many of these go-go bars can shutdown and die anyway, since they are prostitution venues and don't really attract anything positive. The best case scenario for Thailand is to transform its tourism industry to a more family oriented hub, instead of being a pedophile paradise for old western men. Nothing could be better than to send these former prostitutes back to their villages and start building up their future once and for all, and at the same time these low income lazy doers should return back to their home countries as well.

If Thailand is going to transform its economy for the better, it must do what is right and take the medical pill asap. Thais are basically one of the worst people to do business in terms of understanding economics and this transformation is indeed necessary.

Many of you guys are complaining that the Chinese aren't spending any money. They do in fact spend money and if you look in comparison how much they are making that makes them big buck spenders. They are also enjoying their vacations much better than an old westerner who much of the time only spends their holidays drinking cheap boos. No wonder why this place has become a stinking pig.

I wonder if Shroud becomes a one hit wonder?. Maybe he has the bible concession for the whole of the country. I look forward to his future ministries after a beer or two. Bible thumpers like the rest of us have two sides to them. I sure would like to peek into his other side.

He's got some valid points.

The bar girls need to head back home to help the families with their crops, but unfortunately, not all of them or their families own any land.

As production rate in factories and other businesses goes down, I doubt very much that all the rest of them will be able to get a job elsewhere.

And Shroud need to stop trusting TAT's numbers for Chinese spending.

It's like another guy said in this thread, Chinese pays for the whole package in China, hotels with all inclusive plus tours and are bussed to Chinese vendors of different goods.

Most of that money stays or being transferred back to China.

One thing I'm opposed to is when people referring the sex trade here in Thailand as pedophilism, I have been here for soon 10 years and still haven't seen or heard about any underage women working in bars, not saying that it doesn't exists, but if majority of the "girls" are over 18, why referring the trade with "pedophile paradise".

Personally, I don't condemn the girls for working in the sex trade, nor their customers if the deal between them doesn't resort to violence or robbery.

[spidermike007]

Thing is;

Thai government is quite happy to get rid of Westerners as well as the 'dirty business' they patron.

They only tolerated it because they had no choice.

Now with Chinese; they have the perfect tourists: No prostitution; no alcohol, no drugs; no overstay; etc...

You are wrong. No matter what they say or feel, the Western tourists bring in far more income, spend alot more money, and in general are far better for Thai tourism than the Chinese will ever be. There are countless hotels, restaurants, travel operators, mini van drivers, taxi drivers, bars, massage shops, etc, that are really hurting right now, due to the relative lack of Western tourists. I hear that wherever I go, from Thai business owners. Most do not have any idea what is causing this downfall. But, that will have a trickle down effect, and no matter how dumb, ignorant, incompetent or tone deaf the current batch of leaders are, this will be felt, and they will hear about it eventually. They will be made to care. They are just too ignorant and unintelligent to make the right moves, or say the right thing, or implement the right policies. Blind nationalism gets in the way of so much in the way of progress here. And it is based on so little, in the way of facts. Sure, some of us like it here. I like most Thai people, and they have a rich land, where crops can be grown nearly everywhere. No desert, very little arid land. Many of the people have great attitudes (outside of the wastelands of Phuket and Samui). But, the level of achievement here is nowhere in proportion to the overblown sense of national pride. Thailand is not the center of the universe, contrary to what Little P. and some of the tiny men surrounding him say.

The world does not revolve around Thailand. Sooner or later, many Thais will acknowledge that they need the world, far, far more than the world needs them, and that a tremendous amount of income has been lost due to ignorant, incoherent, non-visionary, nationalistic, silly, churlish policies, or the lack of intelligent and visionary policies. The level of incompetence of this administration is simply stunning, on hundreds of levels.

[DrDave]

Speaking as a local but very infrequent patron of bars on Bangla, I would say that the downfall of Bangla is primarily due to factors not under control of the bar owners, such as greedy landlords, changing demographics and declining value for money in other tourist services (taxi, tuk tuk, food, etc). From what I understand, rents in the entertainment zones have skyrocketed. Tuk tuk fares have gone way up (now more per km than London cabs, I believe), and the fixed price for a taxi between the airport and Patong has risen from 600 to 800 baht, all while the price of fuel has declined dramatically. Massages, on the other hand have decreased in price from 300/hr to 200/hr.

From my perspective, beer prices in most of the smaller bars have actually declined from Bangla's heyday. Its not uncommon to find beer on offer at 70-80 baht, as opposed to 100-120 baht several years ago. The exception to this is the nightclubs, however, which are truly gouging customers. Looking at many of the bars fronting Bangla, as well as those on the side sois, it's obvious that they're losing money every day. Lowering prices further won't help the situation if the demographics don't fit the product on offer.

None of us can predict what impact the Chinese economy will have on arrivals, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Casinos legalized and opened in the near future in order to cater to the demographic that TAT has worked so hard to attract.

[xylophone]

Quote KamalaRider: "One thing I'm opposed to is when people referring the sex trade here in Thailand as pedophilism, I have been here for soon 10 years and still haven't seen or heard about any underage women working in bars, not saying that it doesn't exists, but if majority of the "girls" are over 18, why referring the trade with "pedophile paradise".

Personally, I don't condemn the girls for working in the sex trade, nor their customers if the deal between them doesn't resort to violence or robbery".

A good point KR, and in my 10 years of being here I have only been told of one underage girl working in a bar.

When I first came here I was totally against the "sex tourism thing" and found it difficult to accept until I started to help a mate of mine out at his bar and got talking to some of the girls, and eventually got to know them relatively well, and believe it or not they are just like every other human being, with hopes, dreams and aspirations and I was amazed how most of them can shut out the paid sex aspect of their lives and focus on the money needed to support their families.

They also seem to have a different "outlook" with regards to sex, because to them it is just something they do, whereas other races/nationalities often connect the sex and love aspects and do not believe you can have one without the other.

I went from almost despising them when I first came here, to totally understanding where they are at and totally accepting of what they do, and a few I know I even admire for the way they are taking care of their families.

[Lupatria]

Oh my Buddha, time for you all to get out of the Mother Teresa conga line......and sober up?

It is doom and gloom all over the world, not just in Lieland....?

[tomacht8]

No wonder it all goes downhill.
The problem is this shortsighted greed by all providers.
The land owners demanding astronomical rents.
The bar owners serve stretched and often fake expensive drinks in mini glasses,
watered Lady drinks, that mostly in a loud and dirty ambience.
The bars have calculated themselves out of the market.

LOL
Which fun and sex tourist needs a bar, with its coyotes, crazy barfines and absurd service provider fees, as a mediator to meet working girls?

Today the fun and sex tourist can make his contacts easy on social media sites, or can go into a low-cost Massage Parlor, or look around at the freelancer spots.
Even the booking from “Escorts” is often cheaper and much much better, than the short-term experience with a bar girl.

The influx of unsuspecting, wealthy “3 – week – millionaires – victims” is limited.
The whine of the bar owners is ridiculous, they have themselves to blame.

[spidermike007]

They screw tourists to the limit constantly. Now the govt., have elected to double the cost of a visa on arrival because visitors are not getting their visa from immigration prior to arrival. Well i thought that the VOA was all about convenience. Viet Nam and other nearby countries are going to be doing 'cartwheels' as spur of the moment tourists are going to see VOA Vietnam Bht 1000 VOA Thailand Bht 2000. But this is how Thais do business. Bungalow owners across the road from me 'jacked' the monthly rent up from Bht 7000 to Bht 12000 just because their neighbours were doing it. The bungalow has been empty for 10 months now, but they will not consider bring the rate down again.

I have seen landlords here that are unable to rent a property for over a year so there answer is to put the price up, I asked why you do like this ? answer " no rent one year must make up what I lost " serious?? you couldn't rent at the lower price because the price too high, I tell them make more cheap you will rent ... Nope !!! So many people just dont get it or dont want to face reality

The lack of intelligence and common sense on the part of alot of the smaller business people here is stunning. It is a wonder they stay in business at all. I am starting to see that competition does not play much of a factor here. In general the Thai people do not have much of a competitive nature, other than their ability to do the copycat thing, which I do not think they do out of a sense of competition, as much as out of a sense of not having any ideas of their own, usually. Their ability to turn down fair offers, on items that they are making a good profit on, their ability to lose a good tenant over heinous increases in rent, that are nowhere in proportion to the market, and then sit on an empty property for months or years, as their asking price is not something anyone on this planet can relate to. Their inability to adapt to market conditions, by lowering their prices on their products, services, condos, apartments, shops, or houses, that are either for sale or for rent. All of this is indicative of poor business acumen, and being tone deaf to the real economy, and living life in the air, rather than on the ground.

Certainly not all Thai people are like this, thankfully, or none of us would be living here. But, enough are, and it is an astonishing thing to witness them constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

None of us can predict what impact the Chinese economy will have on arrivals, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Casinos legalized and opened in the near future in order to cater to the demographic that TAT has worked so hard to attract.

Near future ? I very much doubt it. I've heard this 'hope' for 20 years now. And I don't see it any closer to becoming a reality. Maybe someday but a big change/reversal in legislation would be required.

[spidermike007]

Hopefully an immigration wake up call, but as we all know, it wont be.

Huh - what's this to do with immigration ?

I would say it's a tourism business wake up call ...

In a country that practices rational behavior, often the immigration policy will reflect the desire of the government to attract tourist revenue. With the economy suffering here, the visas on arrival should be free, as should be the visas obtained in the consulates overseas, and easy to obtain, and available for longer periods, so when people want to come here, and spend alot of their hard earned money, they can without too much difficulty. This is absolutely the wrong time to tighten visa policy. Very wrongheaded, and not based on reason, nor common sense or intelligent policy.

[spidermike007]

Vietnam is free entry up to 14 days. Just been some bars 15bt a beer

And the beer in Laos and Indonesia is far cheaper, and far better too. Thailand is not the tiger it once was. And it has to come to terms with the fact that their neighbors are trying harder, and doing a better job. Sooner or later they will learn. But will it be too late? Thailand has to learn that they need the world, infinitely more than the world needs them.

[LivinginKata]

Quote KamalaRider: "One thing I'm opposed to is when people referring the sex trade here in Thailand as pedophilism, I have been here for soon 10 years and still haven't seen or heard about any underage women working in bars, not saying that it doesn't exists, but if majority of the "girls" are over 18, why referring the trade with "pedophile paradise".

Personally, I don't condemn the girls for working in the sex trade, nor their customers if the deal between them doesn't resort to violence or robbery".

A good point KR, and in my 10 years of being here I have only been told of one underage girl working in a bar.

When I first came here I was totally against the "sex tourism thing" and found it difficult to accept until I started to help a mate of mine out at his bar and got talking to some of the girls, and eventually got to know them relatively well, and believe it or not they are just like every other human being, with hopes, dreams and aspirations and I was amazed how most of them can shut out the paid sex aspect of their lives and focus on the money needed to support their families.

They also seem to have a different "outlook" with regards to sex, because to them it is just something they do, whereas other races/nationalities often connect the sex and love aspects and do not believe you can have one without the other.

I went from almost despising them when I first came here, to totally understanding where they are at and totally accepting of what they do, and a few I know I even admire for the way they are taking care of their families.

Good post xly - fact of the matter is that these bar girls are real people just trying their best to make some money, usually to send home to ma and pa. The sex act is just another occupation for them with little or no emotion.

[spidermike007]

I think the Bangkok scene has been a rip off for a very long time. This is not news nor a recent event. The bars that run shows decided to completely just go for organised tour arrangements and forego the bread and gutter customers, they have shown that regular patrons do not interest them by the direction they have taken. The customer with the fat wallet remains welcome if willing to pay the inflated prices.

Pat pong itself is finished as an entertainment area and is now just ageing drunken old hookers way past their sell by date with bar owners, usually Thais in that locality, also old and facing very expensive rent hikes from a pat pong family that does not care or is not interested in a bar owners problems.

A bottle of standard lager there is 130 baht in a counter top bar, which equates at over £5 a pint. That's to look at copy CD movies on a TV with a 50 year old bar woman who isn't interested except for a lame attempt at a " lady drink " . A sad state of affairs in scruffy streets whose charm and fun days are way long gone.

I was paying recently £5 a pint but that was in good high end bars in London. With London overheads and decent staff wages, it is expected.

There are still some small soi bars that are nice to have a drink at. Where the girls are friendly, and they are happy to see you as a customer. And Soi Cowboy is still fun, if you know the right spots. A lot of lovely gals, and not expensive if you know how to maneuver (get there early, take advantage of happy hour, don't buy an excessive amount of lady drinks, don't bar fine, etc). According to my friends who like the very late night scene, I am told the club scene is still quite good too.

Granted it is nothing like it was back in the day. But, then again, few places are. Besides nostalgia is for wimps.

[LivinginKata]

Hopefully an immigration wake up call, but as we all know, it wont be.

Huh - what's this to do with immigration ?

I would say it's a tourism business wake up call ...

In a country that practices rational behavior, often the immigration policy will reflect the desire of the government to attract tourist revenue. With the economy suffering here, the visas on arrival should be free, as should be the visas obtained in the consulates overseas, and easy to obtain, and available for longer periods, so when people want to come here, and spend alot of their hard earned money, they can without too much difficulty. This is absolutely the wrong time to tighten visa policy. Very wrongheaded, and not based on reason, nor common sense or intelligent policy.

But Thailand has not really tightened visa policy for real tourists/visitors. In fact a 6 month tourist visa is now available. The recent tightening of visas and stamp on arrival was aimed at the many long stayers working illegally here in LOS.

[DrDave]

In a country that practices rational behavior, often the immigration policy will reflect the desire of the government to attract tourist revenue. With the economy suffering here, the visas on arrival should be free, as should be the visas obtained in the consulates overseas, and easy to obtain, and available for longer periods, so when people want to come here, and spend alot of their hard earned money, they can without too much difficulty. This is absolutely the wrong time to tighten visa policy. Very wrongheaded, and not based on reason, nor common sense or intelligent policy.

A few years back, when tourism revenues began to fade, fees were waived over a period of time for tourist visas obtained from consulates overseas. I don't recall seeing any reports of how effective this was, or even if any attempt was made to measure effectiveness.

[spidermike007]

Perhaps the PM has to rethink his attitude towards tourism and relax the regulations as in other tourist destinations.

This guy engaging in introspection, and objective analysis? It would be akin to Trump announcing a campaign to support the worlds immigrants. Or Palin saying something intelligent and insightful. Or the Pope condoning gay marriage. Or Obama stopping the federal prosecution of ganga growers. Or the Thai police becoming an effective force, in the fight against crime, and fatalities on the highways.

I do not think he is capable of change. I do not think he is capable of careful analysis, and responding to the conclusions. I do not think he is capable, period.

[spidermike007]

You have a government that doesn't care about tourism as they have other things on their minds, you have unsolved violence, rapes and murders ,gun crime and road accidents out of control, and the only thing they wish to do is blame the foreigner, increase prices, make visas and entry/exits more complicated with increasing frequency.

You then add to the mix, rising prices, a bar scene in decline with changing customer base, filthy beaches, a police force and military which now doesn't even attempt to hide their disdain for the Western tourists and people who are now definitely exercising their options to visit neighbouring countries where they do not get ANY the above and value for money to go with it.

People are now deciding with their feet and their airline choices, after years of threatening to go to new places, actually making the move and finding they like the alternatives!

Who wants to go to Phuket, now the most unfriendliest place in Thailand and the biggest rip off; mafia taxis attacking tourists, price gouging etc, prices out of control and all the nonsense about parasols on beaches and you cannot do this, that and the other!!!

I live in a backwater as I have said before and am happy with my lot but when we holiday, the only reason we go to Bangkok is to fly to Hanoi, Siem Reap, KL, Singapore etc. We no longer even enter inner Bangkok as there is nothing there any more to enjoy or interest us.

Much of what you say is true. But, you have to add Samui to what you said about Phuket. Used to be that Samui was far more charming than Phuket. But, as prices continue to rise, without anything in the way of added services, better infrastructure, better food or atmosphere, or any sort of improvements, along with the massive congestion in the past two years or so, the quality of life has slipped precipitously.

You are right, there are many alternatives to Thailand, and many are choosing to stay away. Sooner or later, the tone deaf government officials will realize the Chinese are not a replacement for the Western tourists. Only in numbers, but not in quality or income.

[samuibeachcomber]

well they wanted their hi so asian tourists and they got them,everything paid for back home and not spending much on arrival.same happened in australia back in the 80's with japanese tourists.

plus they dont care for the westerner who have decided to take their money else where,fed up with rude aggressive locals who fleece all and sundry.

[geriatrickid]

soom num naaa indeed...used to have a bar in Bangla...moved to Soi Bel Air....and my key money doubled up there also...happy trading and able to work in Vietnam....Thais lie, are greedy, lazy and hate the farangs....one day, no tourists at all...or just Indians trying for a free lady, Chinese, stocking their hotel rooms with noodles from Big C. or Israelis smoking their shisha pipes...ha ha greed breeds corruption, and your seeds are sowed....

Or more likely your bar was crap and it failed because all you could offer was more noise on top of the ambient noise. No atmosphere to be had and customers could sit on uncomfortable hard plastic chairs at dirty plastic tables.

That's what all the failing bars on Bangla are about. There is no reason to visit any of them. Of course they would fail.

In any case, I am delighted to see the comeuppence. It couldn't happen to a more deserving collection of dishonest pimps, crooks, thugs and slime.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

gamini,where do you get off calling all British bar owners pimps?

A pimp is a person(male or female) who lives off the immoral earnings of a person(male or female)

engaged in providing sexual services for money.

It doesnt work like that,as any bar owner will tell you.My place was a straight,non rip off bar for all

the years we had it.All the lady drinks were charged at bar price + 30 baht for the girl,so all we ever

saw was the bar price paid.All the girls were free to decide if they wanted to extend their time with a customer

off the premises.Yes!we charged a bar fine,and that was for the loss of the girls attendance in the bar

for the time she was away.The maximum bar fine was ever only 300 baht.That was a very small part of our

profit.And i might say very inexpensive to the customer.What agreement the girls came to with the customer off the bar

was entirely up to them,we never got any commission or percentage.If we had,then that would have been

living off immoral earnings.We had some very popular girls,the proof being the returning customers.

And your remark about being so ugly they cant get a girl back home.Thats an insult to people who may not be

'Tom Cruise'or 75 kilo's.Do you think these people should be disallowed a sex life then? Our bar was a good

place to visit,we never had any body kick off,or ripped off by a girl or for drinks.Reading your post

i get the impression that you are a sanctimonious,holier than thou person,who has suffered in the past

for one reason or another.You should join the Salvation army.I'm so happy we never met.

KKD

[Brer Fox]

The proposed 360 thb admission fee to Thailand which ostensibly goes toward improving tourism will no doubt give Bangla Rd a boost and enhance security measures around the place. So says Yuthasak Supasorn, Governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand,

[cream]

Been to Phuket loads of times from my first time in 1992 as a teenager till 2012.

Up until the 2004 Tsunami I really enjoyed my time in Phuket, after that it went down hill.

This place is just down right dangerous. Too much unnecessary crap to deal with for a relaxing holiday.

Lawless, the modern day Wild Wild West is what I have heard other tourists refer it as.

It does have spectacular natural beauty as one of its draw-cards but it is surpassed by its evil, atrocious business owners and locals

whom main objective is to get as much $$$ out of each tourist and flaunt their power.

While booking my 2016 holiday, a travel agent even warned me about holidaying in Phuket and Thailand altogether after all the negative media attention

and suggested other countries nearby which I could get a similar experience for a cheaper and safer deal.

What really happens in Thailand has been exposed and honest money spending tourists are frightened.

[Baerboxer]

Even as we speak, prices are going up in Soi Cowboy. Yet, I hear the girls complaining that it is quiet. My personal response to the higher prices is to go less often.

When the mamasan tells me I have not been in much, I say too expensive now. I doubt she got my point.

Always the Thai approach in any business. Less customers means higher prices. You just increase your prices simple. Same as customer service - not a concept familiar here. They are doing you a favor letting you buy from them.

And then they will blame the foreign economies, press and lack of understanding on all their problems.

[NamKangMan]

These estimates are for Bangla Road bisinesses. The estimates for the whole island would also tell a similar story, yet, landlords will not lower rents accordingly, so, the only option for most is to close.

At least now, Phuket's economic situation is in the public arena. If you made this prediction a couple of years ago on this forum you would have been ridiculed and named a "doomsdayer" but the figures clearly show Phuket is struggling.

As per usual, officials will look to blame anything but the fact Phuket no longer offers a value for money and pleasant holiday to the western market.

Phuket must change, or it will perish.

[FredNL]

Don't you just love this topic ???
I do

[JHolmesJr]

Isn't all this happening because there is a glut of similar businesses?

Everyone only seems to want to open a bar, togo, massage, beauty salon….how many of these scan customers support?

Obviously the good ones will remain, the bad ones vanish.

Sounds pretty fair.