The Forgotten Isaan Farmers and their problems.......................

[Sutty]

I don't agree with the vast majority of the OP yes they are poor yes they go our to cut sugar for 300 bht a day. But to say incest is rife or HIV is rife is nonsense. All the Thais I know have exellent hygiene and why would they want hot showers!!!! Having had cool showers all there life. You paint a picture which just isn't true.

It was never my intention that everybody agrees with anything what anybody writes, or says.

How can you have excellent hygiene if you only have cold water in winter? I was there. done that, it doesn't work. Even if you have shampoo ( which the most don't have and they use a cheap soap) , you don't get the foam out of your hair when using a small bucket.

The foam then stays in your hair and if it's really cold people do not shower a long time, because the water is too cold. Was there, done that.

I lived in this particular village for 1 + year and since then I'm always there for a few nights, a short visit, a Morlam sing and dance event, or a cremation.

What you might not know is that some ( more and more ) youngsters take guns to such events and cops are most of the time present. Please watch the youngsters how they're starring at the half naked girls on stage. There're always fights and guns often involved.

I've seen some shootings with my own eyes, also in the capital city Sisaket at night. So if you think there's no rape, no guns, no crime, please wake up.

They a sort of know that they'll never score and some of them find a victim in the village after a certain amount of Lhao Kao.

I love my mom and dad in law a lot and they never brushed their teeth. Nor did all the other relatives in the family and all the others ( of course are there exceptions) in the village.Mom just lost three very important teeth, went through terrible pain, but never saw a dentist.

Same goes for all the villages around, of course with some exceptions.

There was no money for it. Her son who wanted to commit suicide needs all her attention and has to be spoon fed every morning. I'm glad that his two sons are almost adults and they seem too understand how to deal with their difficult situation.

I love them as well as they are my own kids. They both drove to Bangkok to make enough money in a factory to pay for their school, one bought a PC I fixed for him a few days ago.

Many don't even have a bicycle. Where the heck do they cut sugar? There's no sugar cane in the whole area. You might only know some wealthy villages and you've got no idea what I'm on about. Beside some chili picking for 3 baht per kilo, there's nothing to make any money.

Again, I do not ask if somebody agrees with me or, not, it's completely irrelevant if people do, or not.

We have friends, a good source is a nurse in the birth section of a big hospital. Do you think that I pulled the rape story out of my ass?

There's enough proof that many kids get raped and therefore also a high pregnancy rate. Cops are usually never involved, they try to solve such a "problem" by wanting the preick to marry the daughter and pay Sinsod.

Your last sentence is scary to me. "Why would they want hot showers?" You can't be that naive, can you? Oh, they don't want to eat some frwesh seafood, because they never had the money for it. Do you get my point how stupid such a statement really is?

Why do you want a hot shower in winter? Oh, I forgot, you have the right to have hot showers and these poor suckers just don't need them.

I actually paint a picture that's too true to be good for me.I wish my points were all a bunch of lies, but I'm afraid they aren't.

Let's not be too negative about it. Morlam kills some pain. P.S. Noi is still single and I guess virgin. Aehh maybe. [/quote

Sorry you are totaly misguided can't be hygienic with only cold water that's got to be the most westerner remark I've ever heard. I personaly have been to places all over the world and many many times have only ever had cold water I kept clean always and Thais are more used to it than me. My son and his mates don't carry guns nor do they stare at half naked women you don't Li e in the real world do you. Some strange half world where only you inhabit and no one else can possibly be right.

[Issangeorge]

Every culture has it's own screwed up values. I had a friend back home who was living in a four unit town house, he owned one unit, he also had a small 3 bedroom house close to the city centre, that had a basement apartment. He sold his townhouse and instead if moving into the 3 bedroom house he had in the city,of which he could have renovated it and with the rental income of the basement apartment, lived with a very small mortgage. It was only him, his wife and daughter, so a three bedroom house was more than big enough, and it was in a great location. Close to the city centre, less than a twenty minute drive to his work and a five minute walk to one of the great lakes. To me it was a no brainer. Instead he sold that house also, bought a great big five bedroom house a long way from the city and lake, and a longer drive to his work. He also paid extra for 9' ceilings, which made no sense considering it would just increase his heating and air conditioning costs. He also took on a huge mortgage, that demands he maxes out on his overtime to pay for it. So who lives better my friend, or my neighbour that lives in the typical Thai House, no hot water shower, no AC, no real job, but he has food on the table, cloths in his back, a newer motor bike and time to enjoy his newborn son?

[buythisdashcam]

3 baht toothbrush and they cannot buy it ? Don't you think that the only reason is that they are dirty and without education ?

I also do not believe that anybody in this country is not happy since the general brought back happiness !

[Emster23]

No worries, it will get all sorted out with next election........

[blueyeshk]

Eliminate corruption and you will see how people's live will improve until than any help can't last long

[elgordo38]

Why do some people spout rubbish like this???

OP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I wish my words weren't true.

Sadly your a voice crying out in the wilderness. A wilderness of TV key punchers. Save your breath no sympathy here.

[Sutty]

Sutty - have you ever heard about the massacres of: 14th October 1973, 6th October 1976 and 18th May 1992 ??? Ever heard about the Long Marches and the hundreds of people from Isaan that died at those times? Do you think that people walked all the way from Isaan to Bangkok (often being beaten along the way by Police and Army) for nothing? - why not ask a few of your elder neighbours about 30 or 50 years ago. Understanding what happened in the past five decades might really help some of people posting on the "lethargy" noted by them in the Isaan population today and how it arose - a people subjugated and forced to accept their fate. OH maybe have a look at how the people of Isaan were treated during the Vietnam War when their Lao heritage made them suspect Communists.

In case you don't know some half a million people were evicted from there properties with the construction of the large dams in Isaan. Or do you believe that those massive dams (which you can visit) had no one living there before construction.

While you are talking to the old folk in your area - best you hear it from locals not some smart arse like me posting on ThaiVisa - ask them about what happen to the forests in the area they visited as a kid - ask them about how important those natural areas were to the variety they had in their family diet back then. Ask them if they can show you where there used to be sweet water springs when they were kids. Ask your neighbours how much water used to be in the well and when did it start to get brackish.

I can recommend a couple of other excellent books - they are available outside the country and can even be found in some good provincial libraries in UK. "Pulping the South, Industrial Tree Plantations and the World Paper Economy" by Larry Lohmann and Ricardo Carrere published by Zed Books Ltd in 1996. Or a collection of academic papers co-edited by Lohmann - "The Struggle for Land and the Fate of the Forests." By the way Larry spent decades in Thailand in Isaan in the 1980's and actually was forced to leave after mysteriously eco-minded community based activists started to get murdered. The paper industry is big and very powerful - why not Google it and read about it.

Why not jump in you car and travel to what is left of the Huanamput Forest in Burinam - this is a once famous forest of between 8 to 10,000 acres of valuable hardwood before most of it got turned into a Eucalyptus plantain - despite the heroic stand by a group of Buddhist monks (also worth reading about).

Open you eyes as you drive through Isaan how come there are so many BIG Eucalyptus tree considering that they are indigenous to an island called Australia - maybe they flew here on Quantas - met a pretty Isaan girl and decided to stay. Hey Sutty how to you think that almost every bit of "forest" on the top of most hills in your area have got all the same sort of trees planted in straight rows.

Have a chat with some old folk, have a good look and then admit that history happened even in your part of Isaan.

History yes it happened I know this but the word is history I was comenting on the OP in the here and now lots of crap has happened all over the world in history. The OP is in my view not the picture I see now in 2016. And yes I agree you are a bit patronising but that's your choice. But I must say I've had better lectures in the past. We are here in Thailand now not in the past. We can all give chapter and verse of horror stories in every country from the past. I have talked to the older generation who like my dad did not really want to talk in length about past conflict. So let's leave it where it belongs in the past.

[louse1953]

Are you NUTS? My wife's family farms rice in Ubon! None of the above applies! Yes, they are poor, but happy! My wife went to

work in Korat at 18 and then she got her undergraduate degree at night! She took the Civil Service Exam after graduation and was

Number 2 in NE Thailand. Got a great job in the District Admin. She now has her MBA and is C-7 at 45. Her Teeth are beautiful

and I asked about brushing her teeth on the farm. Her Grandmother made toothbrushes and toothpaste at very little cost, if any.

so, don't put this CRAP OUT!

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's crap.All what the op wrote is true in varying degrees.At least he has compassion and manners,which is more than i can say for you.

[Sutty]

By the way is KevinB lostinisaan! !!!!!!!

[louse1953]

OP your comments are widely inaccurate as usual.

OP says ''A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?''

My wife is a dentist in a govt hospital and laughed at this comment. She does root canal treatment everyday and it takes longer than 10min and NO they dont get turned away. Thats a load of B.S

Not all English teachers in Thai schools are illiterate. The wifes mother is one and she speaks very good English.

Is your post based on any evidence or just opinion only??

There is evidence because exactly what OP said happened to my missus.

[davidst01]

I don't agree with the vast majority of the OP yes they are poor yes they go our to cut sugar for 300 bht a day. But to say incest is rife or HIV is rife is nonsense. All the Thais I know have exellent hygiene and why would they want hot showers!!!! Having had cool showers all there life. You paint a picture which just isn't true.

It was never my intention that everybody agrees with anything what anybody writes, or says.

How can you have excellent hygiene if you only have cold water in winter? I was there. done that, it doesn't work. Even if you have shampoo ( which the most don't have and they use a cheap soap) , you don't get the foam out of your hair when using a small bucket.

The foam then stays in your hair and if it's really cold people do not shower a long time, because the water is too cold. Was there, done that.

I lived in this particular village for 1 + year and since then I'm always there for a few nights, a short visit, a Morlam sing and dance event, or a cremation.

What you might not know is that some ( more and more ) youngsters take guns to such events and cops are most of the time present. Please watch the youngsters how they're starring at the half naked girls on stage. There're always fights and guns often involved.

I've seen some shootings with my own eyes, also in the capital city Sisaket at night. So if you think there's no rape, no guns, no crime, please wake up.

They a sort of know that they'll never score and some of them find a victim in the village after a certain amount of Lhao Kao.

I love my mom and dad in law a lot and they never brushed their teeth. Nor did all the other relatives in the family and all the others ( of course are there exceptions) in the village.Mom just lost three very important teeth, went through terrible pain, but never saw a dentist.

Same goes for all the villages around, of course with some exceptions.

There was no money for it. Her son who wanted to commit suicide needs all her attention and has to be spoon fed every morning. I'm glad that his two sons are almost adults and they seem to understand how to deal with their difficult situation.

I love them as well as they are my own kids. They both drove to Bangkok to make enough money in a factory to pay for their school, one bought a PC I fixed for him a few days ago.

Many don't even have a bicycle. Where the heck do they cut sugar? There's no sugar cane in the whole area. You might only know some wealthy villages and you've got no idea what I'm on about. Beside some chili picking for 3 baht per kilo, there's nothing to make any money.

Again, I do not ask if somebody agrees with me or, not, it's completely irrelevant if people do, or not.

We have friends, a good source is a nurse in the birth section of a big hospital. Do you think that I pulled the rape story out of my ass?

There's enough proof that many kids get raped and therefore also a high pregnancy rate. Cops are usually never involved, they try to solve such a "problem" by wanting the preick to marry the daughter and pay Sinsod.

Your last sentence is scary to me. "Why would they want hot showers?" You can't be that naive, can you? Oh, they don't want to eat some frwesh seafood, because they never had the money for it. Do you get my point how stupid such a statement really is?

Why do you want a hot shower in winter? Oh, I forgot, you have the right to have hot showers and these poor suckers just don't need them.

I actually paint a picture that's too true to be good for me.I wish my points were all a bunch of lies, but I'm afraid they aren't.

Let's not be too negative about it. Morlam kills some pain. P.S. Noi is still single and I guess virgin. Aehh maybe.

you dont know what your talking about mr lost in issan re dentistry. Dont speak crap when you dont know what your talking about

[thaiguzzi]

KevinB - excellent posts.

Yes those books are a great read, and at the same time being educational, they are very saddening and can make one extremely angry about how this country treated the Thai-Lao peoples of the NE.

I speak Lao, and can have a decent conversation with the old guys round a campfire with a box of Chang, and smoking their roll up cigarettes. The stories then turn to the late 70's, early 80's, hunting and chasing the "commies", and the helicopter gunships, whole villages disappearing, mass murder, etc etc. Truly frightening, and outragous, what the powers to be in BKK did up in the North and even more so, in the NE...

[Scouse123]

Time to change the Topic! "The Happy Isaan Farmer & Most of their problems caused by themselves and/or others! No Education,

studying is too much work and they don't want to work! No Money! They like too work "nit noi" and drink plenty! They are Happy

Poor! The don't want to change! Let them be Happy! It's their Lives not ours!

I live in a small pocket of typical Isaarn and the above post is nearer the point than the OPs, especially where I am. (between Sakon Nakhon and Roi Et) .

The locals will work when they have reaped the rice harvest in, but they pick and choose their jobs.A new game up here, they try to quote per job as opposed to per day, I refuse and they come around. A decent worker is still 300 baht a day plus food.If it looks too hard, they are not interested.

Those in genuine need of money disappear off to Bangkok for three or four months. They then return as they don't like the cities. Daughters dump their children with their own mothers and then off the go to Pattaya and Phuket etc to ' send money home ' This happens till they find the drugs and discos in the above mentioned places then lie and say their money is all swallowed in food and rent and they have nothing to send home.

Meanwhile, the good sons and daughters who do send money home, it disappears with the fathers usually, on Hi-Lo games of chance, cards, white whisky, and local Lao girls who prostitute in Isaarn. The mothers vary, some are very good, (non drinkers and smokers) and some can outdo their husbands in the drinking, gambling and fighting!!

Ask a boy does he want the local hooker and get pissed or a bar of soap, towels and shampoo and you have the answer!! It's a choice.

The reason the teeth fall out is white whisky, lousy diet, not caring about their teeth and smoking filthy yaa baa. And this DOES apply to the masses.

The parents know no better and many are uneducated and the local teachers can usually be found with ex- students in the brothels. And I have SEEN ALL THIS with my own eyes.

You do get very determined young boys and girls who wish to help themselves just like we have in the West. These are the ones who stay home at night and study. My niece is 14 and HAS NEVER been out after 6pm. She is in the house with the grandmother behind ours studying and watching TV.

If you ask her why, she will tell you ' Good girls do not go out unaccompanied at night ' At weekends, for spending money, she washes our clothes in the machine, washes the plates and dishes, cleans around the houses and runs errands in the village. Her friends come and sit in the large space behind our houses and play. We push her to study!!

Posters on TV forum are right, they feel the pinch up in Isaarn, that piece is true, the reasons a lot of fast food joints get busy, is they know these is the life they have, so even a small piece of enjoyment such as a few pieces of fried chicken is a bit of a treat, they enjoy it and live for today.

There is a serious lack of ' work ethic ' however in Isaarn. They watch too much television and get silly ideas from friends and are influenced by television and do believe the streets are paved with gold. They do not apportion hard work with good fortune, they believe those that have ' were lucky ' and they were not.

You will rarely see a Thai up in the sticks catching upon current affairs reading a newspaper or a good book, they prefer cartoons and video games as well as Thai soaps on TV. (even those with an education). They curse now and never take any notice when the prime minister is on the TV as it distracts from the soap opera they were engrossed in.

It's how they are!! They like being this way.

PS The OP is completely wrong about Isaarn being poorer than Cambodian farmers. That's pure nonsense.

[lostinisaan]

OP your comments are widely inaccurate as usual.

OP says ''A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?''

My wife is a dentist in a govt hospital and laughed at this comment. She does root canal treatment everyday and it takes longer than 10min and NO they dont get turned away. Thats a load of B.S

Not all English teachers in Thai schools are illiterate. The wifes mother is one and she speaks very good English.

Is your post based on any evidence or just opinion only??

There is evidence because exactly what OP said happened to my missus.

Again, a poster, another TVF member with an educated wife who has got such a noble profession being a dentist at a government hospital !!!

I don't believe your post, because it's a fact that the government hospitals only have 10 minutes per patient, root canals are not done under the 30 baht scheme and "special dentists", also called Endodontists are needed to get such a difficult job done.

And even in much more civilized countries can things go terribly wrong. It happened to me in Europe and I was 6 months in total pain.....

These "special dentists need two, or three more years of education than an ordinary dentist to understand the whole procedures, they are not just dentists. Your wife seems to be a super hero, a dentist who does root canals every day, no other dentist at a Thai government hospital does. Impressive.

Please tell your wife that I was laughing about her. Most of them get turned away, but people like your wife ( but I have my doubts that she's a real dentist, too many points just don't fit here) give them their address of their private clinic to get this done.

BTW, not all clinics can do a root canal treatment, it's a procedure that can't be done in one day. Is it possible that you don't really know what a root canal treatment consists of?

Endodontists are dentists who have completed an additional two or more years of advanced residency training in the diagnosis and management of diseases and disorders of the dental pulp, and in the diagnosis of dental pain; their focus is therefore on saving teeth. In order to make a proper assessment and accurate diagnosis of which tooth is affected and exactly what is causing the pain, a thorough history and examination is necessary, together with a radiographic picture (x-ray) of the tooth or area.

You wrote that your wife does that every day at a government hospital? Buffalo dung. I've got the Thai SS and was turned away at the Sisaket hospital, as well as the Sapphasit in Ubon. Both dentists told me that they only have ten minutes per patient.

You can have an extraction, but not anything that takes longer. Even with the Thai SS insurance, not the 30 baht scheme.

Of course are there exceptions, people who're related to your wife and people who pay your wife, not the hospital.

Now I didn't say that your wife is corrupt, but she's Thai. And why would she let you know all the tricks? You called my post bullshit and wrote a bunch of statements that can't be true?

And I also have my doubts that your wife has read my post(s). Who knows what kind of job your wife does, but she's obviously not a dentist at a government hospital.

Is she maybe a nurse who knows all and everything? Please don't answer this post, I don't want to talk about some imaginary dentists who do root canals every day at a government hospital.

It seems that you shot yourself in your leg. Lies have short legs these days. Please be honest and tell us that you've just made the dentist story up.

Are you really such a bad guy that you "created an educated wife" who's a dentist with unbelievable skills.

Able to do difficult and impossible stuff, even against the hospital's policy?

[Sutty]

Lostinisaan or KevinB or whatever other call signs you are using on here several I suspect. I thought this may become a great thread however as you insist on trying I emphasis the word TRYING to be little or be down right rude to anyone who tends to disagree with you. Also all these quotes from the internet just proves really how you love to see your own copy/paste work. So I'm out of here.

[loong]

From your post

Endodontists are dentists who have completed an additional two or more years of advanced residency training in the diagnosis and management of diseases and disorders of the dental pulp, and in the diagnosis of dental pain; their focus is therefore on saving teeth. In order to make a proper assessment and accurate diagnosis of which tooth is affected and exactly what is causing the pain, a thorough history and examination is necessary, together with a radiographic picture (x-ray) of the tooth or area.

Which you have quoted from

http://www.deardoctor.com/articles/root-canal-treatment-step-by-step/

You conveniently forget to mention from the previous paragraph

All dentists receive training in endodontic treatment and can perform root canal procedures, but often a general dentist will refer individuals who need endodontic treatment to an endodontist, a root canal specialist.

Please don't selectively quote only what seems to back up your statement that only "special" dentists can do root canal procedures.

I have had a root canal treatment and it was done in 1 visit. There was a previous visit for diagnosis.

[cgtours]

It is no secret that the Daughters are reared and conditioned from an early age to go and find walking ATM Card. No matter which Nationality, old fat and bald with own daughters back home much older than the new " young model" in Thailand. Looks are irrelevant and so is age, as long as the Finances are there. Soon it is the proverbial Buffalo that is sick, a Pickup Truck needed, then follows a house and further down the lane, a plot of land( little farm) to plant Fruit trees or a new Rice Paddy. The more savvy ones go and sit in Lumpini Park, or go to Art Galleries or English Bookshops and spend their days there until they "Hook" a Farang which would be a better bet, possibly younger than Ancient, and not into boozing in bars.Looks and whether dark skinned also counts in how they are viewed and view themselves. The big majority though end up unfortunately in Patpong ,Pattaya and other seedy bars as bargirls and dancers and we all know what else. Some very nice girls do get jobs and improve themselves and earn their keep honestly and decent and It is very difficult to do so.. They then support the whole family including the lazy Brothers, or rather the Farang ATM does. Meanwhile the "Old Girl" back home has her "Image and Standing" in the village upgraded and struts around like a peacock in her village, especially if her daughter has landed a good Catch. There is more land and houses paid for by Farangs in Isaan villages BUT in the name of these women, than any other Province in Thailand. Some women have several houses in their names as the Farangs that run out of money, sadly departed with an empty ATM Card and were soon replaced and the cycle started all over again. Girls from more traditional or upmarket families will never go this Route. Their families would never permit it and they are too proud of themselves. HISO Ladies, well, THAT is another story. So village life has improved for many many Families in Isaan over the years thanks to the Walking ATMS. Some relationships even miraculously end in marriage with a child or two to SECURE their old age and are quite happy. The Farang must off course "tolerate" the whole family of Inlaws and be generous in doing so. It is ALL about money and how long the money lasts. Have met many of these Women over the years in Travels throughout Thailand and they open up amazingly about this to other Western Women. But extreme Poverty- yes that exists too. They are basically good people but many have been corrupted by Money or lack of it..Not pleasant to see a young Thai Girl being pulled along by a old Farang strutting along like cock of the roost and old enough to be her father( sometimes Grandfather).

[MaeJoMTB]

Not pleasant to see a young Thai Girl being pulled along by a old Farang strutting along like cock of the roost and old enough to be her father( sometimes Grandfather).

Always amazed at the number of people who care what others are doing.

Get a life of your own.

Then you won't need to watch everyone else.

[Sutty]

It is no secret that the Daughters are reared and conditioned from an early age to go and find walking ATM Card. No matter which Nationality, old fat and bald with own daughters back home much older than the new " young model" in Thailand. Looks are irrelevant and so is age, as long as the Finances are there. Soon it is the proverbial Buffalo that is sick, a Pickup Truck needed, then follows a house and further down the lane, a plot of land( little farm) to plant Fruit trees or a new Rice Paddy. The more savvy ones go and sit in Lumpini Park, or go to Art Galleries or English Bookshops and spend their days there until they "Hook" a Farang which would be a better bet, possibly younger than Ancient, and not into boozing in bars.Looks and whether dark skinned also counts in how they are viewed and view themselves. The big majority though end up unfortunately in Patpong ,Pattaya and other seedy bars as bargirls and dancers and we all know what else. Some very nice girls do get jobs and improve themselves and earn their keep honestly and decent and It is very difficult to do so.. They then support the whole family including the lazy Brothers, or rather the Farang ATM does. Meanwhile the "Old Girl" back home has her "Image and Standing" in the village upgraded and struts around like a peacock in her village, especially if her daughter has landed a good Catch. There is more land and houses paid for by Farangs in Isaan villages BUT in the name of these women, than any other Province in Thailand. Some women have several houses in their names as the Farangs that run out of money, sadly departed with an empty ATM Card and were soon replaced and the cycle started all over again. Girls from more traditional or upmarket families will never go this Route. Their families would never permit it and they are too proud of themselves. HISO Ladies, well, THAT is another story. So village life has improved for many many Families in Isaan over the years thanks to the Walking ATMS. Some relationships even miraculously end in marriage with a child or two to SECURE their old age and are quite happy. The Farang must off course "tolerate" the whole family of Inlaws and be generous in doing so. It is ALL about money and how long the money lasts. Have met many of these Women over the years in Travels throughout Thailand and they open up amazingly about this to other Western Women. But extreme Poverty- yes that exists too. They are basically good people but many have been corrupted by Money or lack of it..Not pleasant to see a young Thai Girl being pulled along by a old Farang strutting along like cock of the roost and old enough to be her father( sometimes Grandfather).

Someone got there fingers burnt here me thinks now an expert BS spreader get a life toad

[lostinisaan]

Good post - lost in isaan. And thanks who ever moved it from the Isaan site to the main ThaiVisa site.

As anyone who has read the posts will have noticed the normal trolls are out accusing the person posting of exaggeration and / or lies. A sad reflection on the level of understanding of many of the farang who live here with the minds and head stuck up some dark and ill-informed place. Those who don't even bother to understand the history of where they live nor read anything other than the numerous mindless post on expat sites.

Might I suggest the writings of one of Thailand's best authors in English - Pira Canning Sudham. He is unique having lived and studied most of his adult life outside the country - New Zealand, Australia and the UK and to have published all his books in English (so those who get so upset with people writing about Thailand with poor grammer can relax when they read him). His writings have achieved international acclaim and most are available locally in good bookshops (yes doubter they do exist - try Asia Books you'll find them in most the big malls). I specifically recommend - People of Esarn - The Dammed of Thailand - recently up-dated and republished by AsiaShire with another of his smaller books The Kingdom in Conflicts.

He is world famous for his spectacularly well written novels based on life in Isaan - Monsoon Country and The Force of Karma (meaning that some people who are well read outside the country have more of an understanding of what is going on in Thailand than many of those who live here with their blinkers on).

Anyway - his writings stand testament to the systematic abuse and deprivation that the group of provinces in the North East known has Isaan have suffered over the decades - the locals, as mainly speaker of Lao, have actually suffer centuries of neglect by the elite and Hi-So in Bangkok. The area suffers the natural affliction of low rainfall, being a plateau many miles from the Indian Ocean from which the main SE Monsoon arrives dumping most its moisture on the rest on the Kingdom before it gets to Isaan and partially shielded from the NE Monsoon blowing in from the Pacific by the mountains of Vietnam. But it's greatest affliction are its "natural resources" mercilessly plundered by Thai industrialists for raw material and their need for power. First came the salt and phosphate "miners" - under the fragile soils lay massive deposits of low grade salt - extracted by the chemical industrials and in the process they contaminated the land. Massive seepage from the salt mines and discharge of waste water damaged paddy and polluted canals and turned rivers brackish. Using this water added a crust / layer of salt to paddies hundreds of km away drastically lowering yields. Next the giant hydro-electric dams - the Sirindhorn and Moonmouth - many now argue them to be ecological disasters which displaced hundred of thousands of small households under their waters and drastically affected everyone down-stream - fisherman, farmers and communities dependent on the flow of water and the regular flooding of rivers and streams to bring in new nutrients to the alluvial soils along the drainage lines. These EGAT projects supplied cheap electricity to the industries in the South while millions in Isaan still waited to be connected to the grid. Then the timber strippers chewed up hundreds of thousand of rai of complex natural forests dragging out millions of USD in hard woods and after the areas had been damaged enough to be reclassified as "degraded" by Forestry Department - the next set of resource grabbers moved it - replanting the areas with non-indigenous trees like eucalyptus for eventual "harvesting" as wood chip for the paper industry (for a while the wood chip was exported raw to Japanese paper mills). The wood and paper industry further contributed to massive water pollution and the period during which new "forests" re-grew most hilly areas experienced severe erosion - silting local steams and drying up ancient springs that had previously provided fresh water. The re-established mono-species forests were devoid of natural fruit trees, important local dietary components during the "hungry season" and the way in which eucalyptus protects itself from competition by other plants by its roots producing its own growth retardants in the soil - local mushrooms, small scrubs (with edible leaves) and bamboo disappeared completely in some areas.

Welcome to the reality of Isaan today - every measured statistic in Thailand from number of women dying in childbirth to infant mortality to proportion of undernourished children ranks Isaan as the poorest area in the Kingdom. It is estimated that 75% of the prostitutes come from Isaan and maybe readers believe it is because those girls want old farangs to slobber and drool on them - NO it is because of their families POVERTY. It has been convenient for the owners of the establishments that make money off them (ask yourself who they are) to keep Isaan poor to maintain the supply of fresh and equally desperate girls.

Wake up folk and smell the coffee and understand how it is brewed and sold in the country you live in.

Khrapoom.-.

[Ulic]

lostinisaan, you must work for the UN or an NGO.

[lostinisaan]

Not pleasant to see a young Thai Girl being pulled along by a old Farang strutting along like cock of the roost and old enough to be her father( sometimes Grandfather).

Always amazed at the number of people who care what others are doing.

Get a life of your own.

Then you won't need to watch everyone else.

"I had a dream." -

[billd766]

It is no secret that the Daughters are reared and conditioned from an early age to go and find walking ATM Card. No matter which Nationality, old fat and bald with own daughters back home much older than the new " young model" in Thailand. Looks are irrelevant and so is age, as long as the Finances are there. Soon it is the proverbial Buffalo that is sick, a Pickup Truck needed, then follows a house and further down the lane, a plot of land( little farm) to plant Fruit trees or a new Rice Paddy. The more savvy ones go and sit in Lumpini Park, or go to Art Galleries or English Bookshops and spend their days there until they "Hook" a Farang which would be a better bet, possibly younger than Ancient, and not into boozing in bars.Looks and whether dark skinned also counts in how they are viewed and view themselves. The big majority though end up unfortunately in Patpong ,Pattaya and other seedy bars as bargirls and dancers and we all know what else. Some very nice girls do get jobs and improve themselves and earn their keep honestly and decent and It is very difficult to do so.. They then support the whole family including the lazy Brothers, or rather the Farang ATM does. Meanwhile the "Old Girl" back home has her "Image and Standing" in the village upgraded and struts around like a peacock in her village, especially if her daughter has landed a good Catch. There is more land and houses paid for by Farangs in Isaan villages BUT in the name of these women, than any other Province in Thailand. Some women have several houses in their names as the Farangs that run out of money, sadly departed with an empty ATM Card and were soon replaced and the cycle started all over again. Girls from more traditional or upmarket families will never go this Route. Their families would never permit it and they are too proud of themselves. HISO Ladies, well, THAT is another story. So village life has improved for many many Families in Isaan over the years thanks to the Walking ATMS. Some relationships even miraculously end in marriage with a child or two to SECURE their old age and are quite happy. The Farang must off course "tolerate" the whole family of Inlaws and be generous in doing so. It is ALL about money and how long the money lasts. Have met many of these Women over the years in Travels throughout Thailand and they open up amazingly about this to other Western Women. But extreme Poverty- yes that exists too. They are basically good people but many have been corrupted by Money or lack of it..Not pleasant to see a young Thai Girl being pulled along by a old Farang strutting along like cock of the roost and old enough to be her father( sometimes Grandfather).

Do you actually believe what you have written?

Would you care to share with us all how you came to this opinion?

How many farangs and how many Thai girls have you interviewed personally to reach this wonderful conclusion?

What areas of Thailand and which cities and villages did you go to to find out all the gory details?

I am genuinely interested in your response provided that it is a sensible one and that you can back up what you have stated so clearly.

[wabothai]

Real poverty you can see in the rural north.

[DogNo1]

OK already. I sympathise with the people in Isaan. So far as earnings gaps, poor education and poor academic achievement, has anybody looked at America recently? Many subgroups of the American population have low motivation to study. Hispanics and blacks are not doing very well. When I did research about academic achievement in America, I found that few Hispanics were going to college. In 1993, there was one black student in the whole country who was studying for an advanced degree in math. Things have improved since then due to strong efforts by various colleges, government programs and NGO groups. For in-depth information about Black achievement, refer to the writings of John Ogbu of UC Berkeley and for Hispanics, Mary Matute-Bianchi of UC Santa Cruz. None of this is intended as criticism of any part of the population. The research was done to probe the facts. My own research showed that, at a certain two-year college in California, Vietnamese were high academic achievers and were especially proficient in math. For all groups except Asians, the lack of knowledge in math is a nation-wide scandal.

[The Beguiled]

Lost,

Thank you for posting this.

I think the best way to help these people is through Education.

The poor people farmers of Cambodia are a lot worse off than

Thailand. In Kampon Speu province 4 years ago they were living

on .50c about 15B a day.

In Asia we have the super rich & the super poor.

Some Thai friends drove me to an orphanage where the only children

allowed have HIV. This wealthy Thai family that took me refused to get out of the

car in case they might catch HIV.

Its a very sad state of affairs we live in.

Thanks for your post. Reminds me of a nightmare, that was real.The "Sarnelli house" near Nong Khai.

It must have been about 14 years ago when my wife and I traveled through Thailand and arrived in Nong Khai.

I saw a poster of "father Michael Shee" with a few kids who had already developed AIDS. On the next day we drove to this place and I'll never ever forget what I saw.

Kids from two to about 16, almost all had already developed the AIDS symptoms and medicine at this time was not available from Thai hospitals.

WE spoke to most of the kids and then to Michael. They received money from a foreign organization and bought as much medicine as they could from the States.

Instead of receiving help from Thais, some village headmen, but also health officials just dropped some more infected kids off.

Nobody wanted any contact with them and more and more kids had to be treated.

I remember the boy with a cast, who had a broken leg and all the smiling faces. All I could do was to leave some money and I'll never forget the feelings we had when we left after a full day with the kids. I couldn't tell Michael that there's no god,, because that kept him going.

I remember one chat with Michael when he had to cremate two kids on the same day, whose relatives " couldn't make it" None of the relatives had the time to say goodbye.

Please see;

http://sarnelliorphanage.org/about-us

To "Lostinisaan", thank you for the truth in your writings.

In the village where my wife was raised it is just like what you have written.

I have been able to help some but there are too many that live in third world conditions.

Many, including the government, turn a blind eye and either ignore or just pass it off.

So Sad.

Then there are organisations such as Sarnelli House, a small ray of hope.

I have been fortunate to have visited and stayed there on many occasions and have assisted with money and gifts to the children.

For those bloggers who haven't really seen some of Thailands real life, just take a visit to a well run orphanage, such as this one, and see the really great work that is being done to help these unfortunate children that the Thai government many years back said "their going to die so why spend money on them" when asked for help!

[tomwct]

Lostinisaan or KevinB or whatever other call signs you are using on here several I suspect. I thought this may become a great thread however as you insist on trying I emphasis the word TRYING to be little or be down right rude to anyone who tends to disagree with you. Also all these quotes from the internet just proves really how you love to see your own copy/paste work. So I'm out of here.

Sutty, I'm with you! This Kraut has so many aliases, too many to count. He/She likes to hear themselves talk! Putting out BS on

Thai's! If he/she doesn't like it here they can go home! So, good Bye to this Stupid Topic!

[davidst01]

OP your comments are widely inaccurate as usual.

OP says ''A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?''

My wife is a dentist in a govt hospital and laughed at this comment. She does root canal treatment everyday and it takes longer than 10min and NO they dont get turned away. Thats a load of B.S

Not all English teachers in Thai schools are illiterate. The wifes mother is one and she speaks very good English.

Is your post based on any evidence or just opinion only??

There is evidence because exactly what OP said happened to my missus.

Again, a poster, another TVF member with an educated wife who has got such a noble profession being a dentist at a government hospital !!!

I don't believe your post, because it's a fact that the government hospitals only have 10 minutes per patient, root canals are not done under the 30 baht scheme and "special dentists", also called Endodontists are needed to get such a difficult job done.

And even in much more civilized countries can things go terribly wrong. It happened to me in Europe and I was 6 months in total pain.....

These "special dentists need two, or three more years of education than an ordinary dentist to understand the whole procedures, they are not just dentists. Your wife seems to be a super hero, a dentist who does root canals every day, no other dentist at a Thai government hospital does. Impressive.

Please tell your wife that I was laughing about her. Most of them get turned away, but people like your wife ( but I have my doubts that she's a real dentist, too many points just don't fit here) give them their address of their private clinic to get this done.

BTW, not all clinics can do a root canal treatment, it's a procedure that can't be done in one day. Is it possible that you don't really know what a root canal treatment consists of?

Endodontists are dentists who have completed an additional two or more years of advanced residency training in the diagnosis and management of diseases and disorders of the dental pulp, and in the diagnosis of dental pain; their focus is therefore on saving teeth. In order to make a proper assessment and accurate diagnosis of which tooth is affected and exactly what is causing the pain, a thorough history and examination is necessary, together with a radiographic picture (x-ray) of the tooth or area.

You wrote that your wife does that every day at a government hospital? Buffalo dung. I've got the Thai SS and was turned away at the Sisaket hospital, as well as the Sapphasit in Ubon. Both dentists told me that they only have ten minutes per patient.

You can have an extraction, but not anything that takes longer. Even with the Thai SS insurance, not the 30 baht scheme.

Of course are there exceptions, people who're related to your wife and people who pay your wife, not the hospital.

Now I didn't say that your wife is corrupt, but she's Thai. And why would she let you know all the tricks? You called my post bullshit and wrote a bunch of statements that can't be true?

And I also have my doubts that your wife has read my post(s). Who knows what kind of job your wife does, but she's obviously not a dentist at a government hospital.

Is she maybe a nurse who knows all and everything? Please don't answer this post, I don't want to talk about some imaginary dentists who do root canals every day at a government hospital.

It seems that you shot yourself in your leg. Lies have short legs these days. Please be honest and tell us that you've just made the dentist story up.

Are you really such a bad guy that you "created an educated wife" who's a dentist with unbelievable skills.

Able to do difficult and impossible stuff, even against the hospital's policy?

no offence to you OP but you are weird. Majority of root canals can be done by a competent general practitioner dentist and not by a specialist. Its a relatively easy procedure according to my wife. Good one for copying pasting your google search. It makes you look really intelligent... ha ha. I think you have to be the most hated member of this forum. A lot of people bag you out. You should quit this forum and try somewhere else. This is my feedback to you.

[Sutty]

I know I said I'm out and will be after this after looking at wording and how certain sentences are put together in this thread I now belive lostinisaan has at least 5 maybe 6 aliases on this thread alone.

[lostinisaan]

OP your comments are widely inaccurate as usual.

OP says ''A dentist at a hospital has only 10 minutes per "30 baht patient". If there's a root canal treatment necessary, or something else, they have to see a dentist at a clinic. But they can't afford it to go to a clinic.So they can't get it done and lose more and more teeth. Weird, or?''

My wife is a dentist in a govt hospital and laughed at this comment. She does root canal treatment everyday and it takes longer than 10min and NO they dont get turned away. Thats a load of B.S

Not all English teachers in Thai schools are illiterate. The wifes mother is one and she speaks very good English.

Is your post based on any evidence or just opinion only??

There is evidence because exactly what OP said happened to my missus.

Again, a poster, another TVF member with an educated wife who has got such a noble profession being a dentist at a government hospital !!!

I don't believe your post, because it's a fact that the government hospitals only have 10 minutes per patient, root canals are not done under the 30 baht scheme and "special dentists", also called Endodontists are needed to get such a difficult job done.

And even in much more civilized countries can things go terribly wrong. It happened to me in Europe and I was 6 months in total pain.....

These "special dentists need two, or three more years of education than an ordinary dentist to understand the whole procedures, they are not just dentists. Your wife seems to be a super hero, a dentist who does root canals every day, no other dentist at a Thai government hospital does. Impressive.

Please tell your wife that I was laughing about her. Most of them get turned away, but people like your wife ( but I have my doubts that she's a real dentist, too many points just don't fit here) give them their address of their private clinic to get this done.

BTW, not all clinics can do a root canal treatment, it's a procedure that can't be done in one day. Is it possible that you don't really know what a root canal treatment consists of?

Endodontists are dentists who have completed an additional two or more years of advanced residency training in the diagnosis and management of diseases and disorders of the dental pulp, and in the diagnosis of dental pain; their focus is therefore on saving teeth. In order to make a proper assessment and accurate diagnosis of which tooth is affected and exactly what is causing the pain, a thorough history and examination is necessary, together with a radiographic picture (x-ray) of the tooth or area.

You wrote that your wife does that every day at a government hospital? Buffalo dung. I've got the Thai SS and was turned away at the Sisaket hospital, as well as the Sapphasit in Ubon. Both dentists told me that they only have ten minutes per patient.

You can have an extraction, but not anything that takes longer. Even with the Thai SS insurance, not the 30 baht scheme.

Of course are there exceptions, people who're related to your wife and people who pay your wife, not the hospital.

Now I didn't say that your wife is corrupt, but she's Thai. And why would she let you know all the tricks? You called my post bullshit and wrote a bunch of statements that can't be true?

And I also have my doubts that your wife has read my post(s). Who knows what kind of job your wife does, but she's obviously not a dentist at a government hospital.

Is she maybe a nurse who knows all and everything? Please don't answer this post, I don't want to talk about some imaginary dentists who do root canals every day at a government hospital.

It seems that you shot yourself in your leg. Lies have short legs these days. Please be honest and tell us that you've just made the dentist story up.

Are you really such a bad guy that you "created an educated wife" who's a dentist with unbelievable skills.

Able to do difficult and impossible stuff, even against the hospital's policy?

no offence to you OP but you are weird. Majority of root canals can be done by a competent general practitioner dentist and not by a specialist. Its a relatively easy procedure according to my wife. Good one for copying pasting your google search. It makes you look really intelligent... ha ha. I think you have to be the most hated member of this forum. A lot of people bag you out. You should quit this forum and try somewhere else. This is my feedback to you.

" Majority of root canals can be done by a competent practitioner dentist".

My point was that this isn't done at a government hospital on the 30 baht scheme. My dentist, an experienced older woman in Sisaket city doesn't do root canals and she told me why. She worlds daytime at the Sisaket hospital and has 10 minutes for each patient.

What can be done and what is actually done at a government hospital are completely different scenarios.

Did somebody step on your toes? Oh, according to your wife doesn't make you more intelligent.

Why don't you just stop reading this thread and shut the fragg up? Nobody told you to read these words. And I mean nobody.

Ask your wife for clarification, please.