Growing Makua in Thailand

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT

Hers another option to discuss this with your other half - "Makua", those small hard green tomatoes you see in Thai soups and other dishes.

If you do it properly they will take 3 months to start producing and from 3 or 4 rai you'll be able to pick daily and generate around Baht 1000 - 2000 per day - yup, you pick them daily.

The Thai's love them (i.e. you will have no problems selling them at any market).

They're a tough hardy plant which are easy to grow (if done carefully are a commericaly vaiable - I have 21 rai) and will be a cheap introduction to farming, rom which you can easily get out of without lossing anything, should you change your mind or circumstances change.

Discuss it with your other half, and if the idea sounds good I'll fill you in on the fine detail.

It will get you out of bed early every morning ... they are best picked at dawn when still full of moisture.

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT- got your PM - so you like the Makua idea - you've just got to be able to get yourself and your labour out of bed early in the morning - everyday!

By the way - ask your other half what the price currently is for Makua in the local market (they sell by the Kg, or part thereof). Also ask her the highest she has ever known themm to sell for, and the lowest, and the average? They can fluctuate a lot.

I'll write up some "how to grow Makua" notes and post them here later today for the benefit of all.

Tim

Edited August 30, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[cnxpat]

Chownah, Maizefarmer, thanks for your input

Maizefarmer, as I told you I PM-ed as I was not sure if this would be too boring for the forum, but please share as much as you like! Getting up early is not a big problem, life stops here around 21:00 anyway after which I can relax and get other stuff done on the net :-) the labour bit is going to be a bit of an issue as there is none.

Chownah,

your make very valid points, and it won't be until another few weeks until I can give a complete breakdown of costs and income. My projected sales price per pig (not even per kg, I admit I am an amateur!) is based on what I was told (still ignorant after all these years?). By the way, to be more precise about the expenses, for the stable we spent around 2,000 THB including one of the big drums (2nd hand) where the food should go in.

my understandings, sofar!

Why isn't everybody doing it? Good point. I am trying to figure it out. The easiest way would be to say, it won't make money. Again, I will find out. More in general the following (all from my limited point of view!)

As far as the concept of pig farming is concerned, apparently there's 2 options/business models. You have a sow, and sell the pigs when they're 1 month old, Or you buy them when they're one month old, and sell them at three months. In and around our village, no one is doing pigs (yet!, see previous post) because they never did, have done. Will I be able to compete with large scale pig farms, I have no clue!

This is a very small and traditional farming community, everyone is a farmer, every farmer has a few rai, some more than others, they make their money, eat their rice and fish from the pond, most drink their Lao Cao, and live fairly happily laid back yet poor to some standards (I got used to it already). My wife's father is working his 30 rai on his own.

Another point that my wife made earlier today was basically saying (not in so many words) "they're lazy". Now mind you, she's Thai, born and raised in this village. I think she meant "conservative, traditional, playing it safe". Referring to the Makua suggestion from Maizefarmer that I discussed with her, she said, "yes, that can make money, everyone loves them, but you can't get them over here". After which she made up all sorts of excuses NOT to start or dig deeper into the Makua, still have rice, raining now, the chicken will eat them, etc. etc. - and without knowing proving her point even better.

An interesting analogy someone once told me (probably an old one)

A shoe salesman get's send to Africa to investigate and analyse the market. After one week he came back, depressed saying "This is hopeless, NO ONE is wearing shoes!"

Another shoe salesman was sent after that, on returning he cheered "WOW!!! this is great, NO ONE is wearing shoes!!"

"Change management" springs to mind: "We did rice and mango for decades, we will keep doing rice and mango for the next few". This by the way is not a lot different from what I experienced as an application/business consultant in my previous life at multi national companies during implementation of new operating procedures, information systems, ways of working.

to sum it all up, I will experience and find out what works for us, and learn loads at the same time. I will definitely let you know about the sales and hopefully profits of sales of the pigs.

You can also tell I don't meet a lot of farangs :-) I tend to talk too much, sorry guys, just trying to figure things out, writing stuff down helps me! Reading as well!

[bina]

makue is eggplants, aubergines, those littel green ones, or white ones

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT - Growing Makua (มะเขือ)

The first thing to do – as always - drive around your area and see who is growing them and which variety they are growing.

The seeds can be purchased from any local seed shop – where you’re likely to find several varieties. Find out which grows best in your area – and choose that variety.

The other things you want to do this job properly are some seed trays and a bag of premixed compost of some sort – again, both available from the local agriculture cum seed cum insecticide/herbicide shop.

They are best propagated as single seeds (i.e. one seed to each pod on the seed tray) – fill the seed tray up with compost mix, level it off, stick your finger into the centre of each pod about halfway down, drop a seed in, cover it up and spray some water on gently.

Put the seed tray some where warm to cool – and if possible throw netting over the seed trays to keep the bugs off the seedlings as they grow.

Water twice daily – in the morning and the evening – not at midday.

They’ll be up in about 5 – 7 days. Leave them in the seed tray for about 2 to 3 weeks from the time they stick through the surface soil– buy which time they’ll be as much as 30 cm tall, if not more. From the 2 week onwards you may water them as much as 3 times a day – the leaves will be big enough now and will not be damaged by water droplets acting as a magnifying glass for sunlight. But keep them covered with netting to stop leaf damage.

While all this is happening getting your field ready – I would suggest you start with about 1 rai (1600 square meters – laid out as 40m x 40m or 20m x80m).

Get the local tractor driver to come along with his old Ford and a disc plough on the back, or better still a rotor-vator if he’s got. You want the top soil turned over. Let it settle and then spray it with herbicide to kill whatever is growing – now is a good time to do it because things will be growing well.

Decide how you are going to lay out the rows of makua plants and decide how you are going to irrigate.

Drippers will be the best and cheapest – they will use the least water and least energy.

Space the rows 1.5 meters apart and the plants in each row should be about the same distance apart. A lot of Thai’s will plant a lot closer than that but it ought to be borne in mind that a lot of them do not irrigate and therefore do not have good growth rates.

I good ideas just before the tractor comes along would be spread out lime – about 200kg p/rai – it’s great stuff for killing a lot of the funguses that Makua are susceptible to (I’ll come back to this in a moment – it’s a big issue with Makua).

Remember – you only want the top 5 – 7cm turned over – no more than.

Okay – so your lime is down, your tractor has come and gone, you have sprayed the herbicide and you have laid out your line black plastic tubing in rows 1.5m apart and have stuck drippers into the tubing at 1.5m spacing.

Everything is ready: You plants are 20 – 30 cm high – and you’re ready to get them out the seed trays and into the field.

Dig a little hole next to each dripper about 10cm deep – clear that hole out well. Take the seedling and push it out from the bottom of the seed tray – DO NOT PULL IT OUT from the stem – you stand a good chance of tearing all the fine roots. Place it into the hole, place the excavated soil back in/around it and press down GENTLY. Take a tin of water and throw that on as well to help settle everything.

This whole process must be done with care – why? Because the route into Makua plants for fungus is through broken roots – and if there is one thing that will wipe out a young makua field it is fungus spores in the soil.

How do you recognise plants suffering from some or other fungus attack?

They loose there form, they wither and eventually die – but long before this, you will notice the stem of the plant (where it comes out of the soil) will begin to rot – it will become wet sticky, soft and mushy – and it will start to smell. Get that plant out carefully and put it into a plastic bag – do not just carry it of the field in your hand – dropping spores as you walk off. Throw some lime into the hole where the plant came out, and don’t plant there again – the same thing will happen.

This is all another good reason for using drippers – no mist to carry the spores to other plants.

Water everyday twice – about an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, for the first month using drippers that deliver 4 – 6 litres of water an hour.

That’s the great thing about drippers – you do not need a big powerful pump and will not have huge fuel bills. They can also be used to deliver liquid fertiliser and root absorbed liquid insecticide (will come back to that in a moment).

Any 2 -3 hp centrifugal pump will be fine for 2 – 3 rai – you don’t need big pressure – 1 – 1.5 bar is more than enough – just check how litres per hour it will deliver and divide that by the flow rate per dripper to get the amount of plants it will service. As said, I can’t see you needing more than a 2 -3 hp single phase single stage centrifugal pump – or similar sized Honda petrol unit.

The other good thing about drippers is that they don’t throw water all over the place – so you are not going to have to spend as much time/money of labour clearing up weeds.

Things to watch out for:

Insects: check your plants every day. At the first sign of insect problems get some or other root absorbable insecticide introduced into the daily irrigation programme – use the drippers to feed it to each plant – and spread the whole dosage out across the full irrigation period for one day. It’s easily done – mix up the insecticide and introduce it before the pump using a homemade venture system – so it gets slowly sucked into the irrigation flow and mixed in thoroughly by the pump. As said, you want the whole dosage spread out over as much time as possible to ensure the plants at the end of the irrigation lines also get their fair share of insecticide. This same method can be used to introduce liquid fertilizer efficiently – saves on having to pay someone to spend a day or so walking around with a few bags and a tin, and this same system can be used to introduce grass type herbicides to control grass growth around the plants.

Monitor plant growth, give them as much water as they want and keep them healthy. Remove any sick, wilted or otherwise looking plants and do not replant on that patch – leave it bare.

In about 2 – 3months you’ll get flowers starting to grow – that’s the sign your first crop is on the way, and from then onwards you’ll be up every morning nice and earlier to pick them.

What size to pick at: best you ask you other half - she’ll know best what size the locals like them to be at for soups and other dishes but generally they are referred small (about 3 – 5cm diameter max).

Exercise care when picking them – the Thais like to have a short stem on the fruit when they buy it at market and they can be fussy about insect marks, scratches and tears in the fruit – which quickly go brown and discolour the soft flesh inside the makua.

How much will you get daily from a 1 rai field. Well, if your crop is been looked after and is growing well you can get 20kg a day which at Baht 25 p/kg will give you a Bht 3500 p/week or Bht14 000 p/month p/rai. Do your clacs – 4rai is worth Bht56k p/month.

I have seen the price as high as Bht 60 p/kg in the dry season and as low as Bht 8-9 in the wet season when there are loads around - Bht 15 - 20 is a fairly average price.

But I emphasize – this won’t just happen, you are going to have to put some effort into it – keep your fields in good condition, watch for insect infestation and pick the fruit at the right time and get it to market early in the morning.

Don’t be surprised if someone turns up at your farm one day to offer you a contract – it will then be up to you to ensure that although there may be an advantage to having someone who’s wiling to buy your entire daily crop, the chances are they are doing that to offer your crop on the market at a fairly inflated price – which you should do in any event to get the best price. I assure you – its going to happen.

Good luck – and if you have any other questions, just ask.

Tim

Edited September 2, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT - got your PM

I’m going to put this on the open forum – for all to see.

Once you’ve got your 1st rai up and running – and you’re happy with how its all going, it’ll be time to expand slightly (perhaps another rai, or 2 or more).

My suggestion is you plant one rai at a time, and space out the planting periods about 3 weeks to 1 month. Why?

Well, there are a number of reasons:

1) You want to ensure that you have Makua at different stages of growth – and by spacing out the plantings on a rai by rai basis, you will be ensuring that the flowering periods are also spread out – and therefore the growth stages of the fruit.

2) This methodology also ensures that some of the disese vectors (e.g. insects) which have a liking for makua at different stages of growth don’t catch your whole crop at the same time – it will give you a few weeks to tackle the problem without having to worry about the whole crop been damaged.

3) It also ensures that when it comes to pruning (yup, they will have to be pruned after about 18months) you are not lumbered with the task of pruning the whole lot at the same time, and therefore having no makua for market while they regrow.

But now is the time to consider a small “investment” – you want to start collecting every single old bucket/container (e.g. 15 – 20 litre type paint pails – you know the disposable ones). Wether you decide to buy them new- and you can get them new for about Baht 60 -80 each, or just keep your eyes open for old ones that have been thrown out, is entirely up to you. What I will tell you though, is if you decide to invest in new ones – make sure they have a “plastisizer” in the compound that is used to mold them – this stops them from becoming brittle in the sunlight – which they otherwise will do. If they are 2nd hand ones you pick up cheap from wherever – don’t worry about this caution.

So whats the big idea with these buckets?

To plant your Makua plants in. You will know now where on your land the good soil is and this is the soil you will use to fill the containers – along with some cow manure from the local dairy/beef farm (dried manure not wet – about 20 -25% manure and 80 -75% soil is fine).

Two advantages are derived from this method.

1) You will use even less water as a) it will be confined to the container – it won’t seep away to feed the weeds – which is the second advantage,

2) You isolate the Makua plants totally from grass and weeds growing in the field – which makes it real easy for your labourer to walk around the field with a shoulder slung petrol powered grass cutter. He now just has to cut the grass around the buckets – this will save a ton and half in terms of labour and work, and the last advantage is – there will be no damage to the Makua plant stem from the grass cutter as they will be isolated in the containers - which leads to the last advantage: by running the dripper line down the row on top of each container, you have raised the line off the ground which will reduce damage to it in the long run from the cutter and people walking up & down and around the plants each day to pick the fruit. Also easy to spot any leaks quickly - it can other wise take hours walking up & down rows of Makua, lifting the dripper line out from undergrowth to find out where a leak is. This way, raised above ground level you'll see it straight away.

This works – because its exactly how I have my 20 odd rai laid out. Lastly it also enable you to move the plants around if ever you need to.

In summary: they are a load easier to maintain, water, fertilise and isolate from soil bourne deises (the big problem for Makua grown on large scale).

You’re now in the big league, and it will increase your plant yield by about 20 – 25% .

At some time you are going to have prune your plants, but that won’t be for at least 18months – we’ll cross that bridge when the time comes.

Which variety – I grow the “Tiger” variety – stripped – see picture below.

They are not the hardiest variety, but they are popular and picked at the right time and size (earlier morning at around 4cm in diameter) have a great flavour which are one of Thai’s first choices. Check this with your other half –she may think that there are better options for your area.

Tim

Edited September 2, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[cnxpat]

Thanks a lot Tim, this is excellent,

I will keep you all posted throughout the process!

[chownah]

MaizeFarmer,

Do you put drainage hole in the bottom of the buckets?

If you buy new buckets will it say somewhere that they are made with plasticizer?

Do you think it is actually a plasticizer or is it maybe a UV inhibitor?

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

CHOWNAH / CNXPAT.............always forget something don't I.....

HOLES - yes, best & quickest way to make holes is to take a piece of re-bar or similar (anything from 1/4" - 1" diameter), heat it up on the old gas cooker flame and stick about a dozen holes at the bottom of the container (much quicker than using a drill) - through the sides about 1/2" from the base - NOT THROUGH THE BASE (i.e. through the sides). Piercing the container thru the side just above the base is much better for drainage.

Plasticiser/UV inhibitor - either is fine, but in my experiance (and have both types), I have found that the extra cost for containers sold specifically described as UV protected pushes the price up quite significantly - while, for this size/volume, in practise you'll find that "plasticised pails are just as long lasting.

The distinction I was trying to make was that you get containers and you containers i.e. some if you try and bend them will reach a deformation point and then just "shatter" or crack, whereas others, you can stand on, bend them - whatever, and they just deform. As a rule, the lighter the pigment in the plastic, the longer it will last - and if it's not white (which most are in any case) - invest in a 20 litre of the cheapest whitewash emulsion you can get form the hardware store, and whitewash or the containers - that will protect them from the sunlight good & proper for 2 or 3 years.

Tim

[cnxpat]

CHOWNAH / CNXPAT.............always forget something don't I.....

HOLES - yes, best & quickest way to make holes is to take a piece of re-bar or similar (anything from 1/4" - 1" diameter), heat it up on the old gas cooker flame and stick about a dozen holes at the bottom of the container (much quicker than using a drill) - through the sides about 1/2" from the base - NOT THROUGH THE BASE (i.e. through the sides). Piercing the container thru the side just above the base is much better for drainage.

Plasticiser/UV inhibitor - either is fine, but in my experiance (and have both types), I have found that the extra cost for containers sold specifically described as UV protected pushes the price up quite significantly - while, for this size/volume, in practise you'll find that "plasticised pails are just as long lasting.

The distinction I was trying to make was that you get containers and you containers i.e. some if you try and bend them will reach a deformation point and then just "shatter" or crack, whereas others, you can stand on, bend them - whatever, and they just deform. As a rule, the lighter the pigment in the plastic, the longer it will last - and if it's not white (which most are in any case) - invest in a 20 litre of the cheapest whitewash emulsion you can get form the hardware store, and whitewash or the containers - that will protect them from the sunlight good & proper for 2 or 3 years.

Tim

A few more questions to come I'm afraid Tim, yet your posts are excellent, clear and detailed. I will in most cases (and you can) blame my poor English language skills if something is not clear, so bear with me please (in other cases, I am just plain thick)!

For now, the first thing for me to work out is the irrigation system, the dripper system, I guess a simple picture will give me an idea. We have polished up the old Honda "petrol unit" as you call it, that's working fine, I am just not sure about the dripper system.

Other than that, the planting, replanting, and especially the buckets thing makes perfect sense. Plasticiser/UV inhibitor, though I know the words, I can't related them to a bucket yet. Will cross that bridge when I get there.

Been busy last week and will still be this and upcoming weeks (some websites I'm developing for ppl, visa stuff for the daughter), but I will make a start with the tractor preparing the fields, and start planting the seeds (the other way around actually) in a couple of days.

Makua species, according to my wife, the white/light coloured Makua are the most popular around here, so that's what we'll start of fwith. Had a look around the area, and I haven't seen any around here. Well, not in the fields that is.

thanks,

Ron

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT

No prob’s – after the cows are milked and morning chores are done I’ll sit down with “junior” (my youngest kid) and we’ll get here to draw some pic’s for you – she love’s doing that. While she’s at it I’ll put together some info on exactlt what tubing and drippers you (manufacturer name, product code ect ect…. it’s all avalible in Thailand off the shelf – worst case scenario is you’ll have to phone the distributor to find out where your nearest stockist is in your area).

Do me favour though please – somewhere on your pump will be a sticker that tells you hour many liters per hour and at what engine/pump rpm or pressure. I need that info. The the pump is so old that that sticker is no longer there – then I need to know the Hunda engine type/model number and the pump that is attached to it – pump type and/or model number. In both cases it will be stamped somewhere on the metal work of both the metal and the engine. From that we can work out exactly wht the pump is capable of.

Plasticiser/UV inhibator – put it this way: if the container is flexible and you can bend it without it fracturing/splitting or crack through, then for the time been that will be fine for your f 1st rai – assuming that it is the way you are going to start off (which if you can – go for it, nothing to loose).

No Makua growing around you – that sounds good – won’t take long for news to get round that you’re the local Makua man.

Check back late today – I’ll get the above done later this morning.

Tim

[cnxpat]

CNXPAT

No prob’s – after the cows are milked and morning chores are done I’ll sit down with “junior” (my youngest kid) and we’ll get here to draw some pic’s for you – she love’s doing that. While she’s at it I’ll put together some info on exactlt what tubing and drippers you (manufacturer name, product code ect ect…. it’s all avalible in Thailand off the shelf – worst case scenario is you’ll have to phone the distributor to find out where your nearest stockist is in your area).

Do me favour though please – somewhere on your pump will be a sticker that tells you hour many liters per hour and at what engine/pump rpm or pressure. I need that info. The the pump is so old that that sticker is no longer there – then I need to know the Hunda engine type/model number and the pump that is attached to it – pump type and/or model number. In both cases it will be stamped somewhere on the metal work of both the metal and the engine. From that we can work out exactly wht the pump is capable of.

Plasticiser/UV inhibator – put it this way: if the container is flexible and you can bend it without it fracturing/splitting or crack through, then for the time been that will be fine for your f 1st rai – assuming that it is the way you are going to start off (which if you can – go for it, nothing to loose).

No Makua growing around you – that sounds good – won’t take long for news to get round that you’re the local Makua man.

Check back late today – I’ll get the above done later this morning.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

I'm off to bed, 200 kms in the 100cc made me (and the missus and kid) tired, and sunburnt!!! but I will get you the info tomorrow, and have a closer look at the engine as well.

re. your, "I'll get the above done" is almost makng me feel guilty for asking!! please don't rush!

(so if there's anything I can help you with (not related to farming) would definitely make me feel better :-)

[Maizefarmer]

CNXPAT

Okay - I have attached some pages/diagrams here for you - courtesy of my youngster (good english writing practise for her).

Nope - don't worry about "owing" anything - just make a success of it, and put the effort into doing it properly to start with - you'll reap the reward later in maakua production.

You have a bit of capital outlay here - so you may even wish to start with 1/2 a rai - and then scale up afterwards. Thats fine, the layout is for a 40m x 40m filed (i.e. 1rai = 1600sqaure meters).

So long as you keep the 1.5m x 1.5m spacing between rows and plants, you can go ahead and layout any length and breadth you wish.

Oh yes, and there is enough info here for you to work out if your pump is okay for the job (I'm sure it is - so long as the engine is 3hp or more it should be fine - no harm if it's more, just run the engine slower.

To check how much the drippers are delivering get a 0.5 litre bottle and see how long it takes to fill up - and then adjust the engine rpm accordingly. You shouldn't get more than about 10-15% differance in flow rate from the dripper closest to the pump and the dripper furthest from the pump - as they self regulate (more or less).

I use Naan drippers - so I know they work properly and last - if for some reason you can't get Naan drippers, get any other 8litre per hour dripper (and if its 6 liter or 10 liter per hour - just adjust pump speed accordinglly - but don't exceed th epump delivery volume divided by the amount of drippers - 10 liter per hour maybe to much for the pump.

You may want to check out the Naan website (www. naandan..... something or other).

As for other fittings - dont worry about brand name - just get whats avalible (i.e. tubing ect ect) - but do try to get the Naan drippers - they last for ever.

Rmemebr what I said: take the pump delivery volume per hour and divide it by the number of drippers. If 8 liter per hour is too much, no prob's just select 6 liter per hour drippers

Good luck get back to me if you have questions.

Tim

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer, Two questions: 1/ if you use the buckets to plant in do you sink them into the ground or lay them on top? 2/ if the buckets are used would it be feasable to put between newly planted rubber trees before they develop a large cannapy that would block the sun. Thanks. Issangeorge

[Maizefarmer]

ISSANGEORGE

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh - you haven't been reading the fine print......no, the buckets are not in the ground. They just sit on the surface, or you can put a couple of stones underneath each bucket.

Using them in a rubber field - thats a good idea, rubber tree plantations are often "dual cropped" with some or other crop in the early stages - you should get about 18 months production (maybe 24) - and water them the same time you water the rubber trees.

Makua plants can grow to about 1.8meters high with a folage diameter of 2 - 2.5m diameter - so bare that mind with people walking around them everyday after 3 - 4months (when they start producing makua).

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

Sometime back I wrote an article on growing Makua – does anyone know where that article is?

Anyway – that is another alternative which has the potential to generate fairly decent levels of income, and although requires irrigation to sustain through the dry season, it does not require capital outlay for greenhouses (the irrigation can be implemented with low pressure/drip type so no big electricity charges).

It is a relatively tough plant that is perfectly suited for the Thai climate – including Isaan region. It will produce fruit/vegetable all year round and his harvested daily and always in demand – so you will always have cash in hand.

It’s another crop that gives a significantly better return than a rubber plantation with a work cycle/time input that is similar to harvesting rubber (i.e. daily – early each morning been the best time to pick).

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

Thanx RDC

Anyone who has 4rai of land and ain't sure what to do with it, you may like to conisder reading the above link - from about half way down the 1st page onwards and thru to about halfway down the 2nd page.

There are some consice details and info for growing Makua.

4rai has the potential (again its a realistic potential) to generate around Baht50K per month, or Baht 12 500 p/week. The scale of economies dont change much between 1 rai and 10 rai i.e. you will quite easily get Baht 3100 p/rai per week with anything from 1 - 10 rai - and the nice thing about it is that it starts coming in after about 2 -3 months, not after 5 - 7years!!!

Tim

Edited October 17, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[chownah]

In vegetable farming I think that while the growing of the vegetable can scale easily to any size, the marketing is another matter. It's not hard to peddle a few kilo of any particlular crop yourself but generally speaking the more of a crop you have to sell the more work will go into marketing, the amount you sell at one time might be larger which often means you will receive a lower price...or the number of deliveries you make will be larger so the labor and transportation costs will increase.

Chownah

[Tim207]

In vegetable farming I think that while the growing of the vegetable can scale easily to any size, the marketing is another matter. It's not hard to peddle a few kilo of any particlular crop yourself but generally speaking the more of a crop you have to sell the more work will go into marketing, the amount you sell at one time might be larger which often means you will receive a lower price...or the number of deliveries you make will be larger so the labor and transportation costs will increase.

Chownah

I was thinking the same thing. Not in labor costs so much as crop sales. How the hel_l do you get rid of 10 rai worth of makua per day?I would like to hear a little more from MF about where his 20 rai (I believe) of makua is going. Ideal would be somebody coming around to harvest every morning for me and doing the transporting/selling. Obviously the price would be much lower but how much lower? The next best option would be hiring someone to harvest, and I am back to "How do I get rid of it?".

BTW: I did not include the option of me harvesting because THERE IS NO WAY I will get up at dawn everyday for anything.

[Maizefarmer]

Heard of GATEWAY - each main provincial town has a fresh vegetable bulk market market distribution point for lack of a better point.

There are 2 in Bangkok - the main one known as "Gateway" located on the right hand side of the main road head towards Saraburi - looks like a big football stadium with a full covered roof.

You may think thats I long way from where I or you are. Well trucks pull in there every day from places as far as Korat and Khon Kaen.

Its Thailands biggest fresh market and acts as a buying and distribution point for not only the whole country - but also for the international market - a lot of the veggies that go into local processed foods or are exported frozen or cooked in tins, contain veggies that have been purchased from the bulk markets.

There is another in SaraBuri - on the plot of land next to the old BOC factory.

- another in Korat

- another in Khon Kaen

- another in ChangMai

- another in Chang Rai

When you grow on that scale your options are actually better - you supply the local fresh vilage/town market and send the rest to the bulk market.

But what is more than likely to happen is that - and I garunte this will happen is that if you are growing bulk Makua, before you get your first crop, you will have had a vist from at least half a dozen bulk dealers. Theyw ill want to buy your whole crop on a daily basis. These are the guys that have fllets of trucks and dominate the bulk markets. They never have enough of anything and are always looking for bulk sellers. Logisticaly its so much easier and cheaper to purchase from one person who can sell them bulk as opposed having to run around to lots of growers/sellers.

I assure you ..... grow 10 - 20 rai of makua and you phone will ring off the hook with guys wanting it - especialy if you are in a place like Isaan where the whole crop growing system grinds to a standsstill in the dry season.

AS for labour - there are lots of little old ladies who want to do a few hours work each morning, get their few Baht wages and then push off

Tim

Edited October 18, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[buriramboy]

as you have probably noticed already, i know next to nothing, but actyally is makua, i have never heard of it.

[buriramboy]

can't even fing makua in my thai-english dictionary, so please give me an idiots guide as to what it is as i will then have to try explain it to the wife. TY

[chownah]

can't even fing makua in my thai-english dictionary, so please give me an idiots guide as to what it is as i will then have to try explain it to the wife. TY

Makua means eggplant in the US and auborgine in Europe...I think. There are many different kinds used in Thai food but the one we have been discussing is the one that is spherical and about the size of a golf ball or a little smaller, is green, and hard (crunchy). It is used in Isaan for somtam (I'm not sure if its IN the somtam or served WITH the somtam) and in the north it is eaten along with many of local dishes since its flavor complements many of them nicely. Also it is used in geng kheow wan.

There is also makua yaw which is called japanese eggplant in the US (I think). It is about 4 or 5 cm in diameter and about 10 to 20 cm long...it can be purple, green, or white when ripe. We eat it sort of tempura style... sliced thin at about 45degrees, dipped in a thin batter, and fried. There are also different northern dishes that use it but I don't know what they're called.

You can also get the "standard" style eggplant ("standard" for the US that is) which is purple and a bit pear shaped and 10cm in diameter and maybe 15 cm long....my wife has never cooked any of these but I know it is available.

I forgot....there is another kind of makua...in geng kheow wan those little things that look like peas but are harder...those are a kind of makua too.

Chownah

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer, your postings on Makua intrigue me immensely. I have 11 rai that the wife wants to plant rubber on, but from your postings it seems to be a no brainier that the best returns come from makua. The way I figure it if you get an average price of 15 baht and pay 30% of that to the wholesaler for 10.5 baht in your pocket and then give 5.5 of that to your pickers you end up with 5 baht a kilogram or 100 baht per rai per day which is 36,500 baht per rai per year. If you pay 24,000 baht per rai for land and it costs you 30,000 baht per rai to irrigate for a total of 54,000 baht per rai, and figure 12,000 baht per rai for expenses (fertilizers ext.) then your annual return would be a little over 45%. From what you have posted this seems a fair figure because all the figures I have used are on the conservative side, except for the irrigation figure which is just a guestimate, because I have no idea what drippers cost. Maizefarmer this seems to good to be true, and you know what they say about that. So could you please tell me where I am going wrong, and if the figures are true why is not everyone doing it? Thanks for your time, and I really enjoy your postings. Issangeorge.

[Maizefarmer]

Thanks for your acknowldgement......... yes, I have farmed in Thailand for a long time on a commercial basis, so I think I have a pretty good idea of the differance between the theory of figures and how they appear when presented on internet articals, and what actualy happens when you take that information and put it into practise.

I grow around 20 rai of the stuff - I know exactly what is involved in growing & maintaining it, and in getting it to market.

Its a safe crop (ie follow those guidelines and you wont go far wrong), and it's a good crop to choose if you want to get a "feel" for farming in Thailand - and by "feel" I not only mean the actual daily routine your lifestyle will follow, but also getting a "feel" for how things work when dealing with buyers and sellers in the Thai agriculturral market enviorment - for as someone said earlier: growing the crop is only half the story, the other half of it is the real business side it - getting it to market, dealing with the buyers ect ect.....

Kick off with 1 rai or even half a rai if you wish is fine. I garuntee you will be able offload your 1/2 rai - 1rai on the local morning freash market in just about any village small town or village. You'll soon want to expand.

PS

Issangeorge - what was the response of your other half when you showed her what you had in mind - Approval or Disapproval? Generally all they girls like it as they see it as something that the whole family can get stuck into.

Tim

Edited October 18, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[buriramboy]

just out of curiosity, where in thailand are you located/ do you farm, maizefarmer?

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer, I have mentioned it to my wife and she says her sister grows them and only gets 5 baht a bag, which I think is about 300 grams, and she only grows a few plants around her rice paddies so it's like talking apples and oranges. I just take things slow with my wife and gradually hope to bring her around. I know one of the big things she will bring up if I move forward is who will we sell to? I am retired and living on a pension so am not dependent on the income, but I would like to find something that could give her family some real income and yet let them remain in the village. I support them or at least some of them now, I don't mind this and they are all very appreciative and work very hard at chores around the house and at the rice farm, but if I could get something going where they are making their own money and money for me it would be great. Any amount of money over and above what I put out would be a bonus. Maizefarmer maybe you could tell me how much drippers are and how much you pay your workers ( if you want to skip how much you pay your workers I fully understand) Thanks again for all the help. Issangeorge.

[Maizefarmer]

ISSANGEORGE - hang on half an hour - just helping junior with her geography homework - s I love it as it was the only subject I was any good at in school - will reply to your posting in about 30 minutes.

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

....... that was easy, got hold I was wrong and to bugger off back to the computer (must remember that for next time!!). Okay wehere were we - cost of labour and drippers.

Drippers - well, first you need to tell me a few things:

1) size of land and layout - the length of each irrigation run will determine which dripper to use i.e. if your irrigation runs are only about 30-40 meters long and you are running them from a tank located above the dripper level, then really your flow rates are quite low and there will be no need to compnsate for the small differance between whatthe first dripper and the last dripper in each run will deliver to the plants. Its a different story though if your irrigatuion runs are 100 meters long - then you really do want to use regulated drippers as the first dripper will otherwise deliver a lot of water and the last one will deliver only a fraction of that amount.

So work out how you want to layout the filed and how big it is going to be.

If you use the layout I have put on the forum, and roughly the same length, you can get drippers for that at around Baht 9 - 18 each (depedning on avalibility at the time and the manufacturer/brandname of the dripper)

2) Labour costs - I need to check with the foreman - but it's based on kg picked and is around Baht 1.10 p/kg i.e. what the worker earns is based on the amount they pick.

It means fine, if you have a lazy team member then its only them who loose out, and leaves more for the harder workers to earn. Its also a good motivator.

A worker can pick 60kg an hour - thats Baht 60 per hour which for a 2 hour working day means that they will take home over a Baht 700 each. They love it, because as I said, its only a couple hours early in the morning and they are left to go work elswhere fo rthe rest of the day if they wish.

Other than for the farm forman (who is a fulltime employee and gets a salray that has nothing to do with the amount of Makua pciked but more to do with how well he manages the cows and milk yields), the folk who pick the makua are in my case a bunch of Beetle nut tooth stained local grannies - who turn up each morning and treat it more as a social gathering - they just do not stop yacking to each other - one can be 100 yards down the field and she will hold a conversation with her buddies at the other end of the field shouting to them. I havent got a clue what they are talking about half the time, but the conversation is punctuated with regular laughter and they will all burst outlaughing tat the same time spread out over the field 100's of yards apart.

Half way through, they drop everything and get stuck into a breakfast of bugs and sticky rice - then back to work.

They turn up at 5-5:30am and by 7:30 it's all over for the day.

Between the group of about 4 -5 of them they are all taking home around Baht 600 -700 each per week on average for harvesting around 2.6tons of Makua total or around 500 -550 kg each (they swop around so that they all have a day or two off each week)

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer, thanks again for you quick reply. Geography was also my best subject. I was going to major in it at university but in second year couldn’t get the courses I wanted so ended up with a History major, a hel_l of a lot of good that has done me. Any way getting back to the subject at hand, if I planted all 11 rai or even half of it I would have 165 metre runs. The lay out would be 25, 165-metre rows with 109 plants in each row for 2,725 plants. I may by pass the wife at first and go out with my cousin to operate the two-wheel tractor and just do one Rai in which case there would be 25, 40-metre rows. Thanks again for all the help. I am almost sure I will plant one rai and if the numbers work out and I can sell the product then I am sure I can convince the wife on planting more. Just one last question before I lay down for the night, do you have any idea how much of the retail price a wholesaler would take. (I know how long is a piece of string) but you might be able to give me a ballpark figure. Thanks again for all your info. Issangeorge.