sawadee1947 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 anyone serious about animal welfare wouldn't clime on an elephant. in your observations of the camp wat would you look for? wat would you look for for someone like you to get advice Your approach is very naive. To understand the issues surrounding elephants and general animal abuse you need to get informed on all aspects. If you do this you would realise that even an expert couldn't tell just by a couple of hours what the problem of a particular camp are. Wildlife attractions are shows and they are carefully designed to put on a show for the public - this is usually just a veneer but it prevents the casual observer from seeing what is going on......this could be the housing, diet, how they are treated out of the public eye - none of this will a layperson see on a day trip to a facility. There are of course some things you can check for yourself if you have done your research beforehand....but remember - just like GreenCross I won't be there when you climb on an elephant. so why not just accept the rule f thumb - if you can ride it, it's being exploited? does that include the wife ? whose wife? The elephant's wife? "Cumgranosalum's" wife? Your wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 There would be far fewer elephants in the world if they were only in the wild or in nature reserves as many would have to be culled due to over population if not poached. There needs to be a better managed system for those in captivity, one thing to consider would be to sterilise a high% those in captivity, and closely monitor the way they are being treated. i think your premise that simply counting elephants is the object of the exercise is somewhat flawed. however the IS a serious questionn as to why elephants in captivity are allowed to breed and it only exacerbates the problem. What I was trying to say is if most of the elephants in captivity were to be returned to the wild there is just not enough land in the jungle, national park or reserves to sustain them. Thing is unless there is suable work for these "beasts of burden" they should be returned to the wild, chaining a elephant up 20 hours a day, and having him/her give tourists a ride up and down a 200m track 10 or more times a day or do the same old party trick every day would make anyone go nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 There would be far fewer elephants in the world if they were only in the wild or in nature reserves as many would have to be culled due to over population if not poached. There needs to be a better managed system for those in captivity, one thing to consider would be to sterilise a high% those in captivity, and closely monitor the way they are being treated. i think your premise that simply counting elephants is the object of the exercise is somewhat flawed. however the IS a serious questionn as to why elephants in captivity are allowed to breed and it only exacerbates the problem. What I was trying to say is if most of the elephants in captivity were to be returned to the wild there is just not enough land in the jungle, national park or reserves to sustain them. Thing is unless there is suable work for these "beasts of burden" they should be returned to the wild, chaining a elephant up 20 hours a day, and having him/her give tourists a ride up and down a 200m track 10 or more times a day or do the same old party trick every day would make anyone go nuts. "there is just not enough land in the jungle, national park or reserves to sustain them." - where do you get that idea from? In reality there is allegedly room for 2000 tigers in Thailand in the wild. There are about 2000/3000 elephants in captivity and slightly less already in the wild. - some are already housed in reserves. My guess is they could ALL be housed in "free range" conditions. There are virtually no ways to return them to the wild but reserves or at least places for reserves are quite possible. The problems are not so much space as finance and will as in the government having the will to face up to their responsibilities. The population of Thailand's elephants should be dwindling due to natural wastage, but smuggling and breeding are interfering with that. "Thing is unless there is suable work for these "beasts of burden" they should be returned to the wild," - well retrning to the wild is a pipedream, but it puzzles me what "work" you think they are suitable for? Elephants are not "beasts of burden" - they were employed in the logging industry until logging became illegal in the 1980s. But if you think they weren't chained or were well treated thsn, you are kidding yourself. Given the problems of returning these animals to the wild, it seems that reserves are the ONLY answer - this is a man-made problem requiring a man-made solution...the elephants do not deserve continued abuse which arises out of a man-made situation in the first place. Thailand has been called to task by VITES and are still on their "watch" list, tyey need tpo demonstrate they are serious about putting their wildlife house in order or they will face real sanctions from the CITES international community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 An inflammatory post has been removed as well as the replies. A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed as well as the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomfiddler Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 ...never heard of an elephant going crazy because .....'it was teased with a banana'...... ...also seems that there are 2 versions of what happened..... ...sorry for the daughter and her father..... ...I cannot see how they can suggest the riders were at fault..... A woman was killed a few years ago in Pattaya, and she was doing the same thing, teasing the elephant with bananas. Seriously injured her father as well. The message is very clear, don,t tease elephants or better still stay well away from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLobster Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Elephant Kills Scottish Tourist on Koh Samui KOH SAMUI – A Scottish man has been killed and a mahout seriously injured by an elephant gone berserk during a trekking tour on Koh Samui. The 36-year-old Scottish tourist was riding the male elephant with his 16-year-old daughter in a forested area of tambon Bor Phud this afternoon when, witnesses told police, Pamang, a Myanmar mahout, climbed down from 13-year-old elephant to take photos with the victim and his daughter. The elephant struck Pamang with his trunk and stabbed him in the torso with a tusk. The elephant then unseated the Scotsman and his daughter, then stomped the Scotsman and gored him in the chest with a tusk, killing him instantly. The bull elephant then ran into the forest. Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/elephant-kills-scottish-tourist-on-koh-samui.html -- Chiang Rai Times 2016-02-02 At least the writer of this article understands how to use the English language, unlike the Samui Times reporter. Who would have guessed that a reporter at the Chiang Rai Times would have better English skills than a reporter for the Samui Times. Me as I see it every time I visit the Samui Times website. The original article has been edited and is still grammatically incorrect. If you go down to the comments section though, you will see some comments from the man's daughter and her friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffaarraanngg Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Elephant Kills Scottish Tourist on Koh Samui KOH SAMUI – A Scottish man has been killed and a mahout seriously injured by an elephant gone berserk during a trekking tour on Koh Samui. The 36-year-old Scottish tourist was riding the male elephant with his 16-year-old daughter in a forested area of tambon Bor Phud this afternoon when, witnesses told police, Pamang, a Myanmar mahout, climbed down from 13-year-old elephant to take photos with the victim and his daughter. The elephant struck Pamang with his trunk and stabbed him in the torso with a tusk. The elephant then unseated the Scotsman and his daughter, then stomped the Scotsman and gored him in the chest with a tusk, killing him instantly. The bull elephant then ran into the forest. Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/elephant-kills-scottish-tourist-on-koh-samui.html -- Chiang Rai Times 2016-02-02 At least the writer of this article understands how to use the English language, unlike the Samui Times reporter. Who would have guessed that a reporter at the Chiang Rai Times would have better English skills than a reporter for the Samui Times. Me as I see it every time I visit the Samui Times website. The original article has been edited and is still grammatically incorrect. If you go down to the comments section though, you will see some comments from the man's daughter and her friend. See the UK tabloids and the BBC are harassing the 16 year old daughter as she lies in a hospital bed on the day her father died. Vile scum the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Elephant Kills Scottish Tourist on Koh Samui KOH SAMUI – A Scottish man has been killed and a mahout seriously injured by an elephant gone berserk during a trekking tour on Koh Samui. The 36-year-old Scottish tourist was riding the male elephant with his 16-year-old daughter in a forested area of tambon Bor Phud this afternoon when, witnesses told police, Pamang, a Myanmar mahout, climbed down from 13-year-old elephant to take photos with the victim and his daughter. The elephant struck Pamang with his trunk and stabbed him in the torso with a tusk. The elephant then unseated the Scotsman and his daughter, then stomped the Scotsman and gored him in the chest with a tusk, killing him instantly. The bull elephant then ran into the forest. Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/elephant-kills-scottish-tourist-on-koh-samui.html -- Chiang Rai Times 2016-02-02 At least the writer of this article understands how to use the English language, unlike the Samui Times reporter. Who would have guessed that a reporter at the Chiang Rai Times would have better English skills than a reporter for the Samui Times. Me as I see it every time I visit the Samui Times website. The original article has been edited and is still grammatically incorrect. If you go down to the comments section though, you will see some comments from the man's daughter and her friend. See the UK tabloids and the BBC are harassing the 16 year old daughter as she lies in a hospital bed on the day her father died. Vile scum the lot of them. THe girl initially posted on the thread and various UK papers have asked her for the story. I don't think they are being particularly aggressive about this, but it does reflect the need for an accurate bit of reporting....so far all we a re getting is a heap of nonsense about "teasing" and suggestions that the unfortunate visit had a prothetic leg......what king of rubbish is that. The girl needs the opportunity to tell her story. however there do seem to be some other remarkably insensitive people there who are basically ignoring the grief that must be being experienced by the girl and her family. Making some very callous comments. apart from the tragic death, this event has raised several issues these need to be discussed, but I would hope not at the expense of the feelings of the family involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roo860 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 its never wise to mix stupid people with wild animals...stupid always dies and rightfully so...a race gets smarter Very witty post, congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Sailor Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 its never wise to mix stupid people with wild animals...stupid always dies and rightfully so...a race gets smarter A race gets smarter?? Perhaps not. The IQ level may just continue to drop until they are all stupid and the race just dies out. Aint evolution great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'm guilty of joining an elephant trekking tour in the past, but after seeing the wounds and scars on the elephant from the handlers hook - I have stop and would not recommend any friend from going on these type of tours. The elephants are very poorly treated, handlers often times try to sell ivory items during the trip as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Regardless of the actual events that led up to this tragedy...it was NOT the fault of the elephant. Same as when someone gets killed by an Orca or a Tiger...NOT the animals fault. Wild or captive...never the fault of the animal. Animals do what animals do and there are risks being around them, whether wild or in captivity. Same as when someone gets killed by a lightning strike...not the lightning's fault. Nature is dangerous. Nature being obscenely controlled and held captive, even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 ...never heard of an elephant going crazy because .....'it was teased with a banana'...... ...also seems that there are 2 versions of what happened..... ...sorry for the daughter and her father..... ...I cannot see how they can suggest the riders were at fault..... A woman was killed a few years ago in Pattaya, and she was doing the same thing, teasing the elephant with bananas. Seriously injured her father as well. The message is very clear, don,t tease elephants or better still stay well away from them The Boeing Syndrome... blame it on the pilots when they are not around to tell their side of the story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 All the allegations of "teasing" are second-hand. like so many wildlife stories the real problems get sidelines by ignorant people who seem to get obsessed with trivia and irrelevancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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