mngmn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 work in Thailand means you are employed in a office from 8 to 5 pm our governments are still in the past. And so are many of the people who post to this forum... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autanic Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I have consulted a lawyer in these matters and here are the results. Painting landscapes in Thailand for commercial gain, no matter where the product is sold is classed as employment and requires a work permit. Working without a permit can have detrimental consequences such as heavy fines and even imprisonment. I have been advised to setup a Thai Company with a Thai Director. This company employs me as a Art Consultant. I have been advised the business does not need to make a much profit, just enough to produce a balance sheet. My online shop should be registered for tax as self employed in the UK, as my earnings would be way below the taxable threshold. I think the problem in my case is painting landscapes for a Thai Company is virtually unheard of. The Company ships to the UK, to another company. That UK company sells products through an online shop. Neither Thai Law or UK are up to date to really take into account, how the global economy is evolving. Thanks for all the comments and opinions. Some of them were a bit shady (grey areas of law). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhaya Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I wouldn't bother. There are loads of farangs selling on Ebay via US. accounts- fairly small potatoes. If you want to do this by the letter of the law, you may open up an unwanted can of worms. Thai law seems to be fairly elastic here and doesn't have any fixed meaning, being up to the interpretation of however the relevant official sees fit that day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistachios Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I have consulted a lawyer in these matters and here are the results. Painting landscapes in Thailand for commercial gain, no matter where the product is sold is classed as employment and requires a work permit. Working without a permit can have detrimental consequences such as heavy fines and even imprisonment. I have been advised to setup a Thai Company with a Thai Director. This company employs me as a Art Consultant. I have been advised the business does not need to make a much profit, just enough to produce a balance sheet. My online shop should be registered for tax as self employed in the UK, as my earnings would be way below the taxable threshold. I think the problem in my case is painting landscapes for a Thai Company is virtually unheard of. The Company ships to the UK, to another company. That UK company sells products through an online shop. Neither Thai Law or UK are up to date to really take into account, how the global economy is evolving. Thanks for all the comments and opinions. Some of them were a bit shady (grey areas of law). Of course your lawyer is advising you to create a company because he has this service to sell! But he forgot to tell you that you can only get a work permit if your company is employing 4 Thais. What are they going to do, hold your brushes? Having fake employees, by listing them in the companies payroll but just paying their social security is illegal. Actually paying them for no real work will also put you in trouble if your company gets a visit from officials. All in all it will cost you a lot and increase the risk of getting in trouble with the authorities. You'll also have to forget about your retirement visa and one year extensions. You'll have to go the business visa way which can be a pain in the ass in the first year of your company creation. Some foreigners have been busted by doing online commerce but they were selling counterfeited goods in large quantities. If you are selling a couple paintings a months, your website and transactions being hosted outside Thailand, you have close to zero chance of getting in any kind of problem whatsoever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrilled Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 To me your in A gray area.Sort of A catch 22. I would say COA. Cover Your A_ _.Like one guy said maybe have A Thai do everything. Maybe don't have your signature on anything.Thats just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Theres a bingo player over in pattaya who sells minix tv boxes at an inflated price of 6k a pop...he programs them and runs a website advertising them ...he also runs a forum for tech support and an app as well....he says his girlfriend does it....apparently it can be done. If you have a thai girlfriend....just make sure she can draw well enough to fake it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 are you doing the painting yourself in Thailand ? Yes, I have always love painting and the inspiration in Thailand is out of this world. I suggest that since you are painting here and selling the output, whether within Thailand or overseas you will require a Work Permit with all the salad-dressing associated with it Hobbies don't need a WP, working does, think about the chaps who were building boats (in Phuket IIRC) they were fine until they sold one Moving to an appropriate forum for more directed comments. I am glad you brought up this hobby then sale story, especially if the OP is doing the painting in Thailand then selling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) [Assuming you are shipping stuff from Thailand] I just see it as a very easy way to get into big trouble. If you are selling anything from Thailand on an online store where goods are being shipped from Thailand, if you are investigated it will be a clear violation (not a maybe yes, maybe no). Simple logic dictates that you are doing what a Thai could do and you are doing it inside Thailand -- thus you are unfairly competing in the local job/business market. Any ex-gf, anybody you know that has a beef with your could report you and they will investigate and you will get into trouble. Anybody that sees you as a competitor could do the same thing. Anyone that thinks they could take over your business for themselves - would also potentially report you (hoping that you don't have a WP). Edited February 9, 2016 by bkkcanuck8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Error on the side of caution and assume that any number of the relevant Thai authorities would deem you as working or doing business so in effect ...earning taxable income ...so YES ..you should have a work permit. However most people would "wing it", so to speak and deal with the problem if and when it surfaces while knowing that maybe...just maybe (they) could or would make an issue out of your money generating affair and in the worse case scenario you are charged with something ( who knows what exactly ) or certainly accused of doing something you should not be doing. The chances of any relevant authority actually following up on what YOU are doing in particular is pretty slim indeed...but..... Be Prepared is always good advice. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidstipek Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Is there not a Law passed and on the books here that an American, in Thailand is authorized to have his own Company here, and is not bound by the stipulations force on other Company ventures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandLOS Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) You can do it without a work permit until you upset the wrong person. Same as you can play bridge for 30 years until you upset the wrong person But seriously, apart from the need to be right, why do people on this forum obsess so much about what other people do? Coz they have a serious problem of too much time on their hands and lack own interests in life. Common issue in many western countries, brought here by the same people. Edited February 12, 2016 by ThailandLOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I would say you do need a WP as you are producing and selling the art from here, However as another poster points out it doesn't really matter what I or others on here think, it's up to Immigration to decide Why immigration? Because it will be Immigration that the OP will be dealing with if they suspect him of working Actually, it will be the Department of Labor as this is their remit. It is not even necessary to inform immigration that you are staying in Thailand working, except where annual extensions of stay are concerned where the extension is issued for reasons of work. At this moment, there are hundreds if not thousands of people working in Thailand without immigration being aware of the fact. The majority of them on legal visas, and a good percentage of these on valid work permits. It is also an urban legend that foreigners are restricted to a minimum earning in Thailand, these figures, variable dependent on which country you hail from, only come into effect when applying for an extension of stay, not with a work permit issued with a valid visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 work in Thailand means you are employed in a office from 8 to 5 pm our governments are still in the past. And so are many of the people who post to this forum... If the laws are antiquated, do you figure you'd be doing anyone a favor by advising them to work under laws the way they may be when they catch up? What the OP is asking is illegal the way he's proposed to do it. Whether he should still do it or not depends on his tolerance for risk and how smart he is about staying out of the crosshairs. Or whether he can find a different way to skin the proverbial cat that isn't illegal. Today. When it counts. Or he can wait around for a few decades in case the law catches up with the digital world. I expect to be dead by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mngmn Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 work in Thailand means you are employed in a office from 8 to 5 pm our governments are still in the past. And so are many of the people who post to this forum... If the laws are antiquated, do you figure you'd be doing anyone a favor by advising them to work under laws the way they may be when they catch up? What the OP is asking is illegal the way he's proposed to do it. Whether he should still do it or not depends on his tolerance for risk and how smart he is about staying out of the crosshairs. Or whether he can find a different way to skin the proverbial cat that isn't illegal. Today. When it counts. Or he can wait around for a few decades in case the law catches up with the digital world. I expect to be dead by then. I agree with you 100%. It is entirely up to the OP to decide what to do.Thinking about the risks involved is an excelled way to approach this and far more useful to the OP than moralising about absolute right and wrong. It is not that long ago that a man with a red flag had to walk in front of a "horseless carriage". My point was that laws rarely keep up with technology and social change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autanic Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 I wonder is it possible to be anymore confused than I am right now. All I want to do is paint my scenes of paradise and sell them on the web to people who share their love of Thailand as I do. Is that so hard to do ? (Rhetorical Question) It seems I can either work illegally or pay phantom thai people to do nothing. Either way its a mad house. I am still unsure what to do, any way for those who posted, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKdreaming Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I am still unsure what to do, any way for those who posted, thank you. Paint because you love to paint , when you go back to the UK take them with you and sell them there...... Where were you planning on selling them ? if Ebay or Esty just make a UK account and ship from Thailand if anyone asks , its a hobby and no you cannot buy one......( not sure if its even legal to give them for free) Just enjoy painting , you get better with everyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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