Nowisee Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 IF... I were to reply to this thread it would be... The care and consideration taken into account is probably based solely on income. The rules regulating drive courses or even dives is probably very limited if any. Anyone feel free to correct me as I admit I have no experience diving here.Also, there lies some responsibility on the diver to understand what he is getting into. You cannot panic even at 5 meters...And... is the equipment really kept up to standards? Clean, serviced and operational? Maybe some of these deaths are cause by faulty regulators and the 1st time divers don't understand the back up regulators function or how to summon your buddy for air... IF you body is even close by.What is the quality of air in the tanks? Is ANY of this inspected, checked??? I wonder, is scuba diving here safe for inexperienced divers? IF not, why do they continue to dive here? I would not dive here without a dive master that I personally knew and that he/she was knowledgeable of the dive company, their equipment and quality of air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyman Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It is a death-a-day in Thailand's diving industry. This one is a bit unusual. They have actually pinned it on somebody. 'Cos he is a farang. I will wait for tomorrow's death. I predict it will be 'unexplained' with the dive instructors, captain and tour company all surreptitiously pointing the finger at each other. I also predict the deceased will be Chinese. Doesn't seem to deter the tourists, neither does it stir the authorities into action. Seems to have become normalised. Actually they didn't pin it just on the farang, as per OP : "The captain, Matsin Borna, was charged with operating a longtail boat with an expired registration and operating a dive boat without permission, as well as taking people to dive in a no-diving zone. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 another one. These so called instructors (and companies) they don't feel any responsibility for their customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cahill Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It is a death-a-day in Thailand's diving industry. This one is a bit unusual. They have actually pinned it on somebody. 'Cos he is a farang. I will wait for tomorrow's death. I predict it will be 'unexplained' with the dive instructors, captain and tour company all surreptitiously pointing the finger at each other. I also predict the deceased will be Chinese. Doesn't seem to deter the tourists, neither does it stir the authorities into action. Seems to have become normalised. A death a day? Can you back that up and proof it? Limbos, You've made the first informed comment with this and your last (No. 9 & 10 on this post). Some posters were way off topic, speaking of roads. Others all clearly didn't know anything about diving or the requirements for diving on a one day try out, which they seemed particularly happy to actually brag about. It's like I say, at least nine out of ten of the comments on here are clearly written by life's losers who love nothing better than getting their voice out, no matter who hears or how bad it makes them look. It massively degrades this forum's usefulness to third parties who seek info. and drive adversing revenue. I have to say the flight adverts are a good way of getting to a very good deal though. None of them know that if someone's having a problem one of the divers will go up with them. There has to be more than one. There was no mention of any medical emergency, just standard ear problems with regulating. That this man got lost in a cave is where things start and none of them even mention it. Thus, a third party will not be interested in reading past the morons, and not use the site ever again. It's incredible that they allow this, to ruin their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo2014 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 This forum is like the obituaries these days. Tourist genocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'm not a diver, but I would have thought it a standard operating procedure that both divers surface, with the instructor, once the minor medical emergency was reported by one of the divers.That would be the end of the dive, cos they can't go back down.Someone would be asking for a refund ...... can't have that. Sounds like it was an open water 10 meter dive. Surely, no need to end the dive, due to resurfacing, at that depth. However, there is some truth to what you say, baht over life is the Phuket way. At least make it the Krabi way, this thread has no connection at all to Phuket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Definition of a diving professional, someone who has been diving more than once methinks. Definition of a diving professional ........ someone who earns money by diving. You can dive as often as you like, until you get paid for doing it, you aren't a professional, you're an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The Divemaster to diver ratio is set far too high,especially when he's accompanying novice divers,but this ratio is Padi approved.Imho it should always be a 121 event.As you can see in this incident 2 divers were in trouble at the sametime.The poor divemaster obviously cannot be in 2 places at 1 time,but now the blames on him.Totally unfair upon the Divemaster. RIP Underwater lady. He does not have to be in 2 places, he just needs to control the divers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 A diver and a German today. That's 2 in one day. A lot more than 83 in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Sad.... If it really was his 1st time diving then there is no excuse for leaving him alone underwater ! Negligence totally.. As an ex dive instructor, it really does not matter if it was his first, or 1000th time underwater. You (the instructor/divemaster) do not leave your divers unattended. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 RIP. It took six weeks of professional instruction in the USA to pass my scuba certification. Class room theory, swimming pool orientation of gear and practice in 8 feet of water. a extremely difficult beach dive walking with full gear through large breaking waves, cold water, limited visibly, kelp and a strong surge. we had to swim out until we were in 30 feet of water, descend to the bottom, flood our masks and demonstrate we could clear ours masks by breathing in with our regulators and exhale with our noses to clear the mask. then we had to remove our BC and tanks completely to demonstrate we could take off our gear in a emergency. the next day was a boat dive at Anacapa island to 50 feet, then ascend without your regulator to demonstrate proper emergency ascent. the instructor were ex Marines, I was 22 years old and it was really hard doing the mask clear test. the buddy system was in place from the moment we were in any water. Yeah, that mask clearing thing is a pain in the ass to get right without breathing a load of water through the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 And... is the equipment really kept up to standards? Clean, serviced and operational? Maybe some of these deaths are cause by faulty regulators and the 1st time divers don't understand the back up regulators function or how to summon your buddy for air... IF you body is even close by. I taught diving for 3 years BSAC and PADI, in Europe and the Middle East. Only seen 1 equipment failure (in action) in that time, it just doesn't happen often. As for 'summoning your buddy for air', you reach out and grab him. If he's further away than that, you've both broken the rules. Your buddy is required to be within reach at all times during a dive. If he's on a PADI try dive, the instructor should be able to grab him at any time, if not actually in contact with him. I used to hold on to the back of their tank, or stab jacket, where they couldn't see (or know) I was holding on. On try dives they don't operate their buoyancy controls, you do it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slippery snake Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 very sad, any deaths , but so many drownings either in the sea swimming , snorkling or diving are the Chinese.. Problem is that so many have never even seen the sea before, coming here, let alone swam in it.. so get into difficulty very easy !! and I guess this is why tourist deaths are way up on other years ? 54 % ? something like that.. Just about every week I read that a Chinese person drowns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branches Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The instructor is at fault. On a first dive anything can happen. For a shallow dive they should've all descended slowly together, any problems with equalisation would happen close to the surface.... a few metres down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Have to give the Chinese credit for having a set of balls (or being oblivious). They seem to be willing to try anything with minimal instruction and little concern for safety. Good for them. Beats going out lying in bed with machines attached to you going beep, beep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis79 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I work here everyday as an instructor & firstly would like to say GOODBYE to Mr so called instructor with no work permit!! Total wrecklessness on his behalf, & the sooner authorities ween out these type the better! Diving need not be dangerous & is not if controlled properly, you should NEVER leave anyone alone underwater...... You enter together & that's the way it should stay, if 1 person has problems equalising you stay as a group at whatever depth it is. Yes Chinese (& Indians) are not the greatest in the water but if guided properly can enjoy the diving experience without problems...... Each individual's abilitys are different & you need to conduct the course accordingly. I could go on & on but to cut it short...... The guy conducting this course is 100% to blame here & good riddance!! Rant over......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4UCorsair Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 There are three basic rules to safe diving. Stay with your buddy. Stay with your buddy. Stay with your buddy. This is very sad ... and inexcusable negligence. I would think any 62 year old on his first dive was a pretty cool dude .. what a horrid and unnecessary death. What if your buddy has a seizure, heart attack, stroke, etc? He could easily subsequently drown. As a diver (PADI qualified), I know that you can't watch your buddy the entire time, and it doesn't take long to die. This is perhaps a death that was unavoidable and inevitable. We don't know. I agree that he shouldn't have been left alone on his first dive, but it may be that it had no bearing on his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Have to give the Chinese credit for having a set of balls (or being oblivious). They seem to be willing to try anything with minimal instruction and little concern for safety. Good for them. Beats going out lying in bed with machines attached to you going beep, beep Arrai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The Divemaster to diver ratio is set far too high,especially when he's accompanying novice divers,but this ratio is Padi approved.Imho it should always be a 121 event.As you can see in this incident 2 divers were in trouble at the sametime.The poor divemaster obviously cannot be in 2 places at 1 time,but now the blames on him.Totally unfair upon the Divemaster. RIP Underwater lady. He does not have to be in 2 places, he just needs to control the divers. It's an interesting point though. What if the diver with the ear ache panicked and headed straight for the surface, showing obviously signs of distress on their ascent? Does the dive instructor follow and assist the distressed diver, or remain with the diver who is experiencing no difficulty and who is remaining at dive depth? Given this all happens in a few seconds, the dive instructor must make a choice. I do not know what the standard operating procedure is for a scenario like this, but with one inexperienced and distressed diver heading for the surface, and another diver appearing fine at the time, I suppose the dive instructor could be forgiven for going to the aid of the distressed diver. Common sense would dictate the Chinese diver would have seen something is wrong and followed, but it appears he didn't. There was some suspicion about gas purity in some diving deaths here recently. In this case, we have a distressed diver, and very shortly after, a deceased diver. It makes you wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishcarlos Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Sad.... If it really was his 1st time diving then there is no excuse for leaving him alone underwater ! Negligence totally.. As an ex dive instructor, it really does not matter if it was his first, or 1000th time underwater. You (the instructor/divemaster) do not leave your divers unattended. Period. Disagree, as someone with 1000 dives should be quite capable of looking after themselves. 1st time underwater, no chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I work here everyday as an instructor & firstly would like to say GOODBYE to Mr so called instructor with no work permit!! Total wrecklessness on his behalf, & the sooner authorities ween out these type the better! Diving need not be dangerous & is not if controlled properly, you should NEVER leave anyone alone underwater...... You enter together & that's the way it should stay, if 1 person has problems equalising you stay as a group at whatever depth it is. Yes Chinese (& Indians) are not the greatest in the water but if guided properly can enjoy the diving experience without problems...... Each individual's abilitys are different & you need to conduct the course accordingly. I could go on & on but to cut it short...... The guy conducting this course is 100% to blame here & good riddance!! Rant over......... "the sooner authorities ween out these type the better" - why would the authorities "ween out these type?" They are the source of good "tea money." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis79 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 "the sooner authorities ween out these type the better" - why would the authorities "ween out these type?" They are the source of good "tea money." Yeah sad ain't it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 "the sooner authorities ween out these type the better" - why would the authorities "ween out these type?" They are the source of good "tea money." Yeah sad ain't it..... Baht above life here. Money number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCC1701A Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 As an ex dive instructor, it really does not matter if it was his first, or 1000th time underwater. You (the instructor/divemaster) do not leave your divers unattended. Period. Disagree, as someone with 1000 dives should be quite capable of looking after themselves. 1st time underwater, no chance... "as someone with 1000 dives should be quite capable of looking after themselves..." ...until something goes wrong and they need help. I hope you understand that below 60 feet returning to the surface if your air supply malfunctions is not a option. that is why the buddy system is so important. You share your buddies air supply until you get back to the surface. A diver can get caught in kelp, their regulator can malfunction, they can get stuck somehow or hung up on something, lose their mask, panic, any number of things. having someone to help you get your mask back on, help you locate your regulator, or give you air so you don't freak out and stopping you by restraining physically you from bolting for the surface in a panic which can be fatal. I dove the Blue Hole in Belize. 140 feet which is very deep for a sport dive. We only had 8 minutes of bottom time. I held my ex wife's hand the whole time so she was never out of my sight. We had four dive masters with us in our group who's only job was to watch us like hawks. Returning in the surface in a hurry was not a option as the decompression time was all most 20 minutes during the return to the surface. Anyway, I guess people can do what ever dangerous things they want, but they should know the downside. I ride a motorcycle in Thailand and people say I am crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The Divemaster to diver ratio is set far too high,especially when he's accompanying novice divers,but this ratio is Padi approved.Imho it should always be a 121 event.As you can see in this incident 2 divers were in trouble at the sametime.The poor divemaster obviously cannot be in 2 places at 1 time,but now the blames on him.Totally unfair upon the Divemaster. RIP Underwater lady. He does not have to be in 2 places, he just needs to control the divers. It's an interesting point though. What if the diver with the ear ache panicked and headed straight for the surface, showing obviously signs of distress on their ascent? Does the dive instructor follow and assist the distressed diver, or remain with the diver who is experiencing no difficulty and who is remaining at dive depth? Given this all happens in a few seconds, the dive instructor must make a choice. I do not know what the standard operating procedure is for a scenario like this, but with one inexperienced and distressed diver heading for the surface, and another diver appearing fine at the time, I suppose the dive instructor could be forgiven for going to the aid of the distressed diver. Common sense would dictate the Chinese diver would have seen something is wrong and followed, but it appears he didn't. There was some suspicion about gas purity in some diving deaths here recently. In this case, we have a distressed diver, and very shortly after, a deceased diver. It makes you wonder. He does not follow. If he has to follow he is not in control, the instructor determines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springheeled jack Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 the diving instructor was charged for diving without a licence and for working illegally In Thailand and I bet there are a lot more than him working illegally/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb17 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Leaving the diver alone. No work permit. Diving in a no-diving zone. I would not like to be standing in Mr Branigan's flippers right now. Never ever call them flippers- swim fins! I've done a bit of diving in the Red Sea, just introductory dives. Small groups- but I seem to remember we all had one instructor apiece - just in case as we were inexperienced- but then it was expensive and seemed an a good company . You must always remember, the guy is someone's son, has family , maybe children- waste of a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcave Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 How did a 62 yo Chinaman pass a PADI diver medical ? Or was this just a one off resort dive with minimal training and health checks ? Can believe the instructor would leave a novice behind and surface while surfacing with another. No medical required for discover scuba. No minimum health checks required either. Instructor should have never left they un-certified diver alone even though to bring him to surface and then re-submerge would have been inconvenient.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal2504 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I am a british sub aqua advanced diver ,I have all ways said one dive leader or master diver can not look after more than one novice.I have dived in thailand with these so called dive schools and they frightened me with the way they introduced novice divers to open water. Kiting them up and letting them jump in sometimes without enough or somtimes no dive leaders or master divers in the water. Iam supprised more accidents dont occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverado Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Chinese national Minghua Jiang, 62, was recovered unconscious at about noon while scuba diving for the first time . Shouldn't the first scuba dive be a practice dive in swimming pool? in belgium , you must train in swimming pool 1 year with very experienced registered instructors followed by accompanied quarry/lakes dives and attempt numerous hours of theory lessons before getting the first certificate (you must also show good general health certificate before starting training), . after getting your fist certificate you're not even allowed to give courses... BUT thailand is thailand ... don't wonder if somuch incidents happen where the least néo hippies , drug addicts/alcoholics are so often given the dive instructor's jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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