Do you see Buddhism in everyday life of Thais?

[canuckamuck]

If the question was: Do you see the teachings of the Buddha reflected in the lives of everyday Thais? I would say occasionally.

If a follow up question was: Do you see common cultural characteristics in Thailand that contradict the teachings of the Buddha? I would say, continually.

[camerata]

The question underlying all the "Why don't Thais do such-and-such when they are supposed to be Buddhists?" is "Why should they?" Why should they - or anyone - follow religious principles simply because parents and others indoctrinated them when young? There are two types of belief, subconscious and conscious. The subconscious beliefs, forced onto us or socialised into us, when young are deep and difficult to alter. They are a large part of what Buddhists call 'conditioning,' embedded in our subconscious but affecting conscious thought. Conscious beliefs are developed by (mostly) logical thought, and thus can change when a superior logical viewpoint comes along.

So it's perfectly possible, and very common for people to hold contradictory beliefs, one subconscious, one conscious. Many Westerners seem to have a problem with this, Asians don't.

In Thailand, people are socialised more into the social aspects of Buddhism - what we call "popular Buddhism" - and less into the doctrinal side, which is seen as "difficult" and not realistic in everyday life. As Donald Swearer points out in his book, Becoming the Buddha, it's impossible for a farmer not to kill insects and animals. And it's considered near-impossible not to drink alcohol after a long day toiling in the rice fields and with no other entertainment in the village. At the end of the day, the average Thai never bought into the Buddha's teachings in the way we Western followers did.

I know quite a few middle-class Thais who, as a result of some life crisis, sat down and looked seriously at the teachings and became what I call "born-again Buddhists," meditating, following the precepts very diligently and at the same time lighting joss sticks at the temple and giving a wai to the spirit house. In other words, they finally bought into the core principles but that didn't automatically erase the old beliefs.

[laislica]

Good points camarata and I agree pretty much with everything you say andI accept that it silly to expect all followers of the Buddha to follow all of his teachings all of the time.

But, observations from my point of view.

In the UK we queue and take our turn, we also frown upon those who push in.

Well we did a while back before multiculturalism took over.

I haven't lived in the UK since about 2000 but on the few visits I made, last one 6 years ago, I have seen many changes.

But the sanctity of life, driving courtesy and consideration, taking turns, opening doors, helping old folks etc still seem to be part of the culture in the UK but certainly not to the same extent in Thailand.

The daily life in The UK (as I remember it) is, IMO, more "Buddhist like" than the daily life in Thailand, and that's not very Buddhist at all.

I imagine that if there was such a thing as a Buddhist country, it would look very "nanny state".

Everyone helping each other for no reward, just because they could.

It would all be, after you -no, no, after you!

No crimes, no rape or murder, no greed, everyone living a simple, mindful life.

Not realistic and everyone would be so perfect and the same that it would be a living hell!

Balance is what is probably needed because we live in a dimensional universe.

It is impossible to know hot without cold.

Near without far.

Love without fear.

Balance should ensure that we experience just enough up or down to be able to understand and appreciate the differences.

Too much of a good thing is as bad as not enough etc.

So perhaps the balance in Thailand is not as perfect as we Westerners would prefer?

But as I mentioned - who would like perfect?

Dead is a perfect state?

Despite not being perfect I love the 5 months I spend here in the middle of nowhere with no Westerners or Tousist attractions nearby.

My wife is part of a large family and we all get on very well.

We have Thai friends as well so for sure, in the group of people that I am usually exposed to, I tend to see the better side of Thailand.

[camerata]

Good points camarata and I agree pretty much with everything you say andI accept that it silly to expect all followers of the Buddha to follow all of his teachings all of the time.

But, observations from my point of view.

In the UK we queue and take our turn, we also frown upon those who push in.

Well we did a while back before multiculturalism took over.

I haven't lived in the UK since about 2000 but on the few visits I made, last one 6 years ago, I have seen many changes.

But the sanctity of life, driving courtesy and consideration, taking turns, opening doors, helping old folks etc still seem to be part of the culture in the UK but certainly not to the same extent in Thailand.

The daily life in The UK (as I remember it) is, IMO, more "Buddhist like" than the daily life in Thailand, and that's not very Buddhist at all.

In the same way that the popular Buddhism meme seems to trump the "pure" Buddhism meme, there are all kinds of other memes that end up taking precedence. One of them is what Culture Shock Thailand calls "the selfish circle." Thai culture is a rural culture. People consider the family circle first, then the village circle (school friends or long-time work colleagues in the urban adaptation), and then as a distant third comes all outsiders. I think this explains why Thais often seem indifferent to the plight of strangers, etc. Perhaps this was a good self-preservation strategy in the old meuang communities, where strangers could be dangerous.

We in the West have developed an urban culture where everyone has to help strangers otherwise we couldn't all get get along in close contact with a large number of people we don't know. So we have ideals like civic responsibility that aren't well developed here. But some things are like comparing apples and oranges. We may think that opening doors for women is polite, but traditionally in Thailand the most senior person goes through the door first. Similarly, in some kind of queue where people know each other the most senior person would be allowed to go first, but if it's a crowd of strangers the circle of selfishness takes over and it's a free-for-all. The Western-style queue forces everyone to be equal, where as the Thai idea gives respect to the seniors.

I think as a meme pure Buddhism is difficult to inculcate in kids. It's easy to tell a kid that if he makes offerings at the temple he'll be reborn in heaven, but pretty difficult to explain that he actually doesn't have a self and that if he gives up everything enjoyable and meditates he'll won't suffer so much. Perhaps that's why the core teachings are largely ignored by the young and have to be discovered later in life.

[laislica]

Again camerata, I agree with you.

Interestingly I have lived in the south of Spain since 2000 and I was surprised to learn that the families in the village did not invite people into their homes,

nor would they want to be invited into your home.

Family could come and go as they wished but not neighbours.

At new year or Matanza there could be an invite into a neighbours house and then it was special.

Generally, The Spanish meet friends in bars or restaurants rather than inviting them into their homes.

Maybe Thais are like this too?

Certainly the Spanish seem to have family as their first priority, then neighbours.

In the UK we are brought up to be individuals and to stand or fall on our own.

Personally, I am from a very small family and I am overjoyed at being a member of a large Thai family.

Being in my 70's, I know what you mean about Thais respecting the elderly.....

[canathai8]

Yah - when another Thai relative dies on a motorbike whilst negotiating a U turn - and not wearing a helmet - my relatives all say in unison that - "It was their time.."

Like hellll it was..

[JHolmesJr]

Hell, no.

[laislica]

u

Yah - when another Thai relative dies on a motorbike whilst negotiating a U turn - and not wearing a helmet - my relatives all say in unison that - "It was their time.."

Like hellll it was..

Sorry to hear that, it is always an unpleasant shock to say the least.

My step-son was murdered 2 years ago in Bangkok in one of those inter poly technic gang fights, he was 19.

The way that his family and friends dealt with it was remarkable.

They grieved heavily during the 7 day funeral followed by burial at sea.

His Mum took a good few weeks to get to grips with it but she has moved on.

Her Mum died 2 years before so I was aware how these events go.

The family and friends gathered in a Wat to remember their lost one at about 3 months after the funeral, then again annually.

I have a friend in the UK who's son, 27, committed suicide a few years ago, she is still devastated by it on a daily basis.

I appreciate there is a difference between murder and suicide and guilt that she never noticed his depression,

but to still be burdened with unremitting grief after so many years is horrible.

We may have something to learn from Thais?

I hope that you all get over the grief soon. x

[camerata]

Again camerata, I agree with you.

Interestingly I have lived in the south of Spain since 2000 and I was surprised to learn that the families in the village did not invite people into their homes,

nor would they want to be invited into your home.

Family could come and go as they wished but not neighbours.

At new year or Matanza there could be an invite into a neighbours house and then it was special.

Generally, The Spanish meet friends in bars or restaurants rather than inviting them into their homes.

Maybe Thais are like this too?

Upcountry the neighbours are part of the village circle, so I think they would be welcome in someone's home. But in a city condo building the neighbours mostly fall into the "circle of selfishness" applied to strangers and are ignored. That's been my experience. The relative lack of charity towards strangers seems odd given that the most famous Jataka tale in Thailand, the Vessantara Jataka, is all about charity.

[Catoni]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

You often seen people saying Buddhism is not a religion. But it is in fact one of the Dharmic religions of south Asia.... .along with Hinduism, Jainism, Sikkhism etc.

Buddhism is classified as a non-theistic religion...... although there is a plane of existence where there are gods and goddesses.... they are not considered important in the strict Buddhist sense.

In many areas, you get a mixture also of Buddhist and Animist belief..... and Hindu gods and goddesses mixed in also. You can see this in some areas of Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.

However... yes.... it is also a philosophy of life.

Blessings........

[Sheryl]

Conscious application of Buddhist principles I see less often than unconscious assimilation of certain Buddhist ideas...especially regarding cause and effect.

For example, when a family member dies, Westerners are usually very keen to know the exact medical cause of death, even when there is nothing to suggest the death wasn't of natural causes. And when there has been an accident or foul play, Westerners are full of questions about how it could happen, why such and such wasn't in place to prevent it etc etc. Thais seldom have this attitude, and I think it is because in their minds it goes without saying that the person died for karmic reasons and that the technical details/reasons are superfluous.

(Which is not, of course, to say that they shouldn't do more by way of safety precautions here!~)

[gk10002000]

I see very little of it practiced. Sure I see some outward signs, but it is mostly superficial. Most Thais are under a lot of financial pressure, and it is a dog eat dog world.

[laislica]

Conscious application of Buddhist principles I see less often than unconscious assimilation of certain Buddhist ideas...especially regarding cause and effect.

For example, when a family member dies, Westerners are usually very keen to know the exact medical cause of death, even when there is nothing to suggest the death wasn't of natural causes. And when there has been an accident or foul play, Westerners are full of questions about how it could happen, why such and such wasn't in place to prevent it etc etc. Thais seldom have this attitude, and I think it is because in their minds it goes without saying that the person died for karmic reasons and that the technical details/reasons are superfluous.

(Which is not, of course, to say that they shouldn't do more by way of safety precautions here!~)

Yes, dead is dead.

When my mother-in-law died 4 years ago it was following a fall when she and her husband tried to close a shutter in high winds.

He fell on top of her and broke her upper arm.

However, I learned that she had been fighting some form of cancer for years and that, maybe it was involved, but the details were never discussed.

The Thais in my family grieve heavily and the 7 day funeral seems to help them immensely in sharing the grief with family and friends.

As they say, a problem shared is a problem halved.

In the UK the funeral process seems very brief by comparison.

Maybe that goes some way to explaining how westerners seem to carry on with the grief for a much longer time?

[only1]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

• Don't kill
• Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
• No drugs or alcohol
• No adultery
• Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

It's a pity you did not convert because you "probably misunderstood" the texts and teachings of Buddhism. Since you mention "convert" may I know what religion are you in now ? Is there a possibility that you "misunderstood" your current religion too ?

My understanding of all major religions tell me that Buddhism is currently the most believable and better religion. Nothing in Buddhism is found to be debunked by science or defied by logic. Even if you don't "convert" you can still lead a better life by following some of Buddhism teachings. Buddhism is a way of life, not a belief.

God and karma bless you. Hope you give it some thoughts.

[camerata]

Some Christian-bashing posts have been deleted. The topic is Buddhism in everyday life.

[elgenon]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

• Don't kill
• Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
• No drugs or alcohol
• No adultery
• Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

It's a pity you did not convert because you "probably misunderstood" the texts and teachings of Buddhism. Since you mention "convert" may I know what religion are you in now ? Is there a possibility that you "misunderstood" your current religion too ?

My understanding of all major religions tell me that Buddhism is currently the most believable and better religion. Nothing in Buddhism is found to be debunked by science or defied by logic. Even if you don't "convert" you can still lead a better life by following some of Buddhism teachings. Buddhism is a way of life, not a belief.

God and karma bless you. Hope you give it some thoughts.

I have not "converted" but have become a better person by watching Thais and Burmese. I still somewhat expect revered practitioners to be "perfect" but that is my problem. They are still people.

[only1]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

• Don't kill
• Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
• No drugs or alcohol
• No adultery
• Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

It's a pity you did not convert because you "probably misunderstood" the texts and teachings of Buddhism. Since you mention "convert" may I know what religion are you in now ? Is there a possibility that you "misunderstood" your current religion too ?

My understanding of all major religions tell me that Buddhism is currently the most believable and better religion. Nothing in Buddhism is found to be debunked by science or defied by logic. Even if you don't "convert" you can still lead a better life by following some of Buddhism teachings. Buddhism is a way of life, not a belief.

God and karma bless you. Hope you give it some thoughts.

I have not "converted" but have become a better person by watching Thais and Burmese. I still somewhat expect revered practitioners to be "perfect" but that is my problem. They are still people.

You are right.

Actually there is no need for converting into Buddhism. I used that word in reply to the previous poster in his/her way of understanding.

By using the word "convert" it means that that religion is questionable and not in harmony with others as well as the right way of living.

Buddhism is teaching the right way to live, there is no need to convert. Everyone living is alive and need to live. This is also,the reason some say everyone has a Buddha in them.

[only1]

If the question was: Do you see the teachings of the Buddha reflected in the lives of everyday Thais? I would say occasionally.

If a follow up question was: Do you see common cultural characteristics in Thailand that contradict the teachings of the Buddha? I would say, continually.

I beg to differ. Please show us the "common cultural characteristics" that differs.

I find Thais the most friendly and helpful people(even to foreigners or non-Buddhists) although their helpfulness are sometime helpless. That is very Buddhism shown.

[canuckamuck]

If the question was: Do you see the teachings of the Buddha reflected in the lives of everyday Thais? I would say occasionally.

If a follow up question was: Do you see common cultural characteristics in Thailand that contradict the teachings of the Buddha? I would say, continually.

I beg to differ. Please show us the "common cultural characteristics" that differs.

I find Thais the most friendly and helpful people(even to foreigners or non-Buddhists) although their helpfulness are sometime helpless. That is very Buddhism shown.

Still in the honeymoon period I see.

[elgenon]

Most of the times I take a taxi I see Buddhist ideas in practice in the driving. This results in being patient and courteous regarding fellow drivers.

Uh oh. here comes the rain. 5555 No honeymoon. Have experienced Thailand for many many years. Please read and think about my sentence before replying.. I am not saying taxi drivers always behave the way YOU want them to.

[camerata]

Several off-topic posts have been deleted. This is a forum for discussion about Buddhism, not for atheist piss-taking and denigrating Thais. Stick to the topic please.

[spidermike007]

The most charming aspect of Buddhists character I see, on a daily basis, is how anchored most Thai people are in the present moment. It does not seem like they are dwelling on the past much, nor dreaming about the future. They genuinely seem to savor each moment, and where I come from, that is an astonishing thing to witness.

[hawker9000]

The most charming aspect of Buddhists character I see, on a daily basis, is how anchored most Thai people are in the present moment. It does not seem like they are dwelling on the past much, nor dreaming about the future. They genuinely seem to savor each moment, and where I come from, that is an astonishing thing to witness.

It's a two-sided coin. Yes, there's lots of charm to people savoring the moment. There really is. Many in the west could use more of that. But the evil twin is a total lack of thought given to or consideration for the consequences of their decisions and actions on others (actually, even themselves as well). And long-term consequences? Forget it! That, too, can be pretty astonishing to witness...

[madusa]

On 10/03/2016 at 11:14 PM, laislica said:

Good points camarata and I agree pretty much with everything you say andI accept that it silly to expect all followers of the Buddha to follow all of his teachings all of the time.

But, observations from my point of view.

In the UK we queue and take our turn, we also frown upon those who push in.

Well we did a while back before multiculturalism took over.

I haven't lived in the UK since about 2000 but on the few visits I made, last one 6 years ago, I have seen many changes.

But the sanctity of life, driving courtesy and consideration, taking turns, opening doors, helping old folks etc still seem to be part of the culture in the UK but certainly not to the same extent in Thailand.

The daily life in The UK (as I remember it) is, IMO, more "Buddhist like" than the daily life in Thailand, and that's not very Buddhist at all.

I imagine that if there was such a thing as a Buddhist country, it would look very "nanny state".

Everyone helping each other for no reward, just because they could.

It would all be, after you -no, no, after you!

No crimes, no rape or murder, no greed, everyone living a simple, mindful life.

Not realistic and everyone would be so perfect and the same that it would be a living hell!

Balance is what is probably needed because we live in a dimensional universe.

It is impossible to know hot without cold.

Near without far.

Love without fear.

Balance should ensure that we experience just enough up or down to be able to understand and appreciate the differences.

Too much of a good thing is as bad as not enough etc.

So perhaps the balance in Thailand is not as perfect as we Westerners would prefer?

But as I mentioned - who would like perfect?

Dead is a perfect state?

Despite not being perfect I love the 5 months I spend here in the middle of nowhere with no Westerners or Tousist attractions nearby.

My wife is part of a large family and we all get on very well.

We have Thai friends as well so for sure, in the group of people that I am usually exposed to, I tend to see the better side of Thailand.

30 years ago when I first went to UK I was surprised by how kind and helpful the people were. I must say they unknowingly have Buddhist nature. They behave like what good buddhist would have done.

I once told my Scottish friend that police in England looked gentlemen compare with some of the police I saw in France and Italy, some of them look like thugs to me, especially some of the Italian police don't look like good people to me, he laughed out very loud.

If British people in general have access to Buddhist teaching and ethics they could become the best examples of Buddhist teaching.

I long to live in a real Buddhist country- tell me is there somewhere in this world hidden in some corner of the earth a real buddhist country? My futile search for over a quarter of a century now.

When I found it and move to live there my BPD will certainly get better.

 

 

[camerata]

Bhutan is probably the nearest you'll get to a "real Buddhist country" but it sure is expensive to visit.

[camerata]

On 4/13/2016 at 5:54 AM, hawker9000 said:

It's a two-sided coin. Yes, there's lots of charm to people savoring the moment. There really is. Many in the west could use more of that. But the evil twin is a total lack of thought given to or consideration for the consequences of their decisions and actions on others (actually, even themselves as well). And long-term consequences? Forget it! That, too, can be pretty astonishing to witness...

 

Yes. I think the kind of "live in the present moment" that Buddhism advocates is to avoid fantasizing about the future and replaying the past, since neither is real and both lead to dukkha. This is very different from a lack of forward-thinking or learning from past experience, both of which result in recklessness and a happy-go-lucky existence.

[Sheryl]

I am always teasing my Thai and Cambodian friends that their countrymen seem to believe only in backward karma. Everyone seems to believe that their current problems/station in life  are the fruit of past deeds but few, to judge by their behavior, seems to believe that what they do now will bear fruit in the future!

 

Actually of course it depends on the individual. Serious Buddhists are a small minority of the population in Thailand. Among Thais who are serious Buddhists - as in, have acquired a reasonably detailed understanding of Buddhist teachings and make a committed effort to apply them/live by them -- I see plenty of evidence of Buddhism in how they live, though not of course 100% perfect. But these are just a small subset of the population. Most Thais are Buddhist only in a nominal sense and pertaining not to actual Buddhist teachings but to the sectarian organized religion that has sprung up in its name (and, one might argue, quite contrary to its teachings).

[Andrew C]

I think so. I'm coming from New York so I sort of expect people to have those little outbursts but here in Thailand, I see none of it. Also, I noticed that some of the older Thai people are completely fine with doing "nothing." They can just sit still and be a person, whereas most people need to constantly be entertained by their cell phones or something of the like. It's really interesting to see.

I saw this one older thai man sitting down on the side of the road. He had a table with some Thai souvenirs which he intended to sell. Now, he was in a terrible place for business since people hardly ever walk down this road BUT he sat calmly. He didn't look like he was daydreaming, he was just sitting. Amazing.

[nausea]

Well apart from the obvious ancestor worship and belief in magick there is a sort of residue of Buddhist belief. Like my SO says, you go out with one set of clothes. 

[joeyg]

On 2/15/2016 at 5:06 AM, AZBill said:

Let's just say for the laypeople it's more of an a la carte version of Buddhism. Thais are far more into ceremonies and idol worship than ever espoused or endorsed by the Buddha and for purposes never taught or approved of by the Buddha. But you can also see the positive influence in how Thais live in the present moment, are more patient and have a much less aggressive nature than westerners.

But Thailand does have twice the gun related crime per capita than the USA.  Just sayin'  

It's sad for me to see as I've been coming here since 1971 and I am an aspiring Buddhist.  IMHO especially the younger generation appear to have "lost the plot."