Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[chainarong]

The question is why a smashed IPhone, why would you take a iPhone and smash it then leave it on your property , hardly makes sense, especially after committing a crime, you'd be more inclined to throw the phone in the ocean......................................... .

[jucel]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was lying on the ground when he was hit according to the reenactment, but even if he wasn't, you get hit with a Thai hoe you are going down no matter what size you are.

The use the same or similar on building sites and women can swing them about never mind a fit Burmese guy.

You got some real good conspiracy theories there straight out of JFK.

How utterly obtuse. You obviously haven't followed the case or seen the pics of David's wounds.

[lucky11]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

[stephenterry]

The question is why a smashed IPhone, why would you take a iPhone and smash it then leave it on your property , hardly makes sense, especially after committing a crime, you'd be more inclined to throw the phone in the ocean......................................... .

Rational thinking is not a strong point here in Thailand. While I will never be convinced in a million years that the B2 committed murder, their alibis are so weak as to make me reason they know more what happened that night - but in the interest of self-preservation, they're declining to out the real killers.

Whatever, they're going to spend a long time incarcerated while the appeals process slowly takes its course. In the meantime lawlessness on Koh Tao will continue unabated as there is no enforcement, or even the desire to change things.

Warning to potential tourists - avoid Koh Tao at all costs.

[ianf]

serial number of David Miller’s iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

it adds nothing

Off course it changes nothing. Also the British are probably not aware of the manipulation behind the scenes or how much the Thais could twist their evidence.

[DM07]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

Face up, according to the photos!

Try to stick with the facts, you so vehemently ask others to stick to!

[lucky11]

The question is why a smashed IPhone, why would you take a iPhone and smash it then leave it on your property , hardly makes sense, especially after committing a crime, you'd be more inclined to throw the phone in the ocean......................................... .

......and who would go swimming in the sea, drunk, in the early hours of the morning in the rain only to conveniently lose their clothes, not be able to find them one of them sobered up enough a few hours later to go and look for them. The bonus was that he found some sunglasses and an iphone lying there on the beach. What an amazing night that was!!

Somehow, they caught wind that a gruesome murder had taken place the night before and thought oh!! maybe the phone and sunglasses might belong to one of those murdered and so we might get implicated in the murder and had better smash them up and get somebody to ditch them for us.

Yeh right, pull the other one.

[DM07]

Weren't we made to believe -by some certain individuals- that Davids family gave the phone- ID to the Thai police?!

[JLCrab]

< snip >

Warning to potential tourists - avoid Koh Tao at all costs.

... and you are just the sort of person from whom these persons are likely to take a warning:

(photo 15 FEB 2016)

[lucky11]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

Face up, according to the photos!

Try to stick with the facts, you so vehemently ask others to stick to!

From news.com.au

OK, this is a fact!!

Autopsies showed that Witheridge died from head wounds while Miller suffered severe blows to the head and drowned in the surf. It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

Now please answer the question - how did he drown behind a rock on the beach?

[lucky11]

serial number of David Miller’s iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

it adds nothing

Off course it changes nothing. Also the British are probably not aware of the manipulation behind the scenes or how much the Thais could twist their evidence.

Twist what evidence?

[JLCrab]

serial number of David Miller’s iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

it adds nothing

Off course it changes nothing. Also the British are probably not aware of the manipulation behind the scenes or how much the Thais could twist their evidence.

... but you are aware.

[DM07]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

Face up, according to the photos!

Try to stick with the facts, you so vehemently ask others to stick to!

From news.com.au

OK, this is a fact!!

Autopsies showed that Witheridge died from head wounds while Miller suffered severe blows to the head and drowned in the surf. It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

Now please answer the question - how did he drown behind a rock on the beach?

Hey Einstein!

Care to read my comment?

You say, he was face DOWN in the sea!

Not according to the photos of the crime scene!

Sooooooo...I did not say anything about the "behind the rock" thing at all!

But would you agree, that someone COULD be BEHIND a rock and IN the sea at the same time?

Huh?

Question of perspective!?

You are such a hoot!

[lucky11]

He was dragged from the sea by the police!!

From the Guardian.

Police Lieutenant Jakkapan Kaewkao, the second police officer at the scene, said he found David Miller face down in the surf and Hannah Witheridge 12 metres away on the beach.

Your so called 'photographic proof' was not taken at the point of where he died (and was found). Photo's can lie when interpreted by amateur sleuths that don't do their home work!!

OK, so your photo implies that he was face up - but the cause of death was from drowning - if he was behind a rock then where did the water in his lungs (from the autopsy report) come from?

[stephenterry]

< snip >

Warning to potential tourists - avoid Koh Tao at all costs.

... and you are just the sort of person from whom these persons are likely to take a warning:

(photo 15 FEB 2016)

Perhaps you'd like to repost that picture when some other unsuspecting revellers on Koh Tao are found dead. I'm sure their parents would be delighted.

[KunMatt]

What's Buzzfeed's source?

During the trial it was reported that the UK police wouldn't hand over IMEI information so Miller's father had to get it from the mobile company himself.

Edit- For example, "Smashed phone found at second defendants home was proven to belong to Miller, with help from Millers father to identify the IMEI serial number."

Evidence is evidence, no matter the source.

I seem to remember Andy Hall revealing that one of the B2 confessed to him that he was in possession of David's phone and sunglasses with both the sunglasses and phone broken and thrown away afterwards (presumably to rid themselves of the implicating evidence).

If someone burgled a house, would they smash their booty the next day? This behaviour just doesn't make sense to me and the forthcoming explanation as to how they became in possession of these two items is just too ridiculous to conceive!! The court is right to use this as genuine evidence, resulting in the guilty verdict.

I seem to remember you spending an entire week on here deliberately misquoting Andy Hall over half of a Tweet just to purposely derail a KT thread and troll this board, so your agenda is very clear and you have zero credibility about this case after that.

Look, I don't use Twitter, don't understand what it is all about and seemingly made a mistake with my posts (still don't know what or why).

I didn't misquote one aspect of Andy Hall's take on JH's (Facebook page?) though and that was that he appeared to have misunderstood the situation (as much as I did) because he was pleading with him to 'stay with it' and not change his opinion regards their guilt. He clearly had the notion that Jonathon Head was wavering, so this wanna be lawyer thought the same as I did about the Tweet, half Tweet, part of a Tweet, whatever it was.My mistake seemed to revolve around the single 'if'. Why was this inserted at the wrong end of the sentence?

It appeared to me as something akin to "dog was black, the.

I'll ignore anything to do with Twitter/Facebook in the future as it is all mumbo jumbo to me and I deem it to be a tool of children or adults wanting to revert back to being children!!

No, you are lying. It was pointed out and explained to you in great drawn out detail literally dozens of times over that week what the simple "misunderstanding" was but you deliberately ignored it just so you could continue that pathetic act of arguing about nothing and trying to get the thread closed or derailed. Let us all never forget that or why you did it because it shows exactly why you are here.

[louse1953]

I rekon the NCA and police that came to "help"in the investigation are way out of their depth when it comes to dealing with BIB.

[DM07]

He was dragged from the sea by the police!!

From the Guardian.

Police Lieutenant Jakkapan Kaewkao, the second police officer at the scene, said he found David Miller face down in the surf and Hannah Witheridge 12 metres away on the beach.

Your so called 'photographic proof' was not taken at the point of where he died (and was found). Photo's can lie when interpreted by amateur sleuths that don't do their home work!!

OK, so your photo implies that he was face up - but the cause of death was from drowning - if he was behind a rock then where did the water in his lungs (from the autopsy report) come from?

The police also said, his injuries came from the hoe!

The police said many things!

The photo I am hinting at, shows his body in the water, with one of his arms pointing straight up!

A clear indication, he was found on his back!

Again: I did say nothing about rocks or whatsoever!

I only pointed out, that he was NOT face down in the surf, like you said!

What are you?

Another incarnation of green chair?

Going on about the same moot point over and over?

By the way: the OP is about something completely different!

But good you are on your diverting tactics again!

[JLCrab]

< snip >

Warning to potential tourists - avoid Koh Tao at all costs.

... and you are just the sort of person from whom these persons are likely to take a warning:

(photo 15 FEB 2016)

Perhaps you'd like to repost that picture when some other unsuspecting revellers on Koh Tao are found dead. I'm sure their parents would be delighted.

When -- that's good. I've been assured on here, however, that if the real Koh Tao perps wanted to pull the same mayhem in Bangkok or elsewhere in Thailand, the family would have the clout as on Koh Tao to have them get away with it

[smedly]

serial number of David Millers iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

I would like to know the source of this news article and why it has been released - it adds nothing

who on earth is ................What's on Sukhumvit................seriously

and from the source Buzzfeed news

Lawyers representing the pair said DNA samples from the alleged murder weapon a garden hoe did not match that of the two men, and Thailands leading forensic scientist told the court that the evidence had been so badly mishandled that it was worthless.

The prosecution case had also rested heavily on sperm samples collected from the crime scene, but when the defence asked to have the DNA independently tested Thai police officers failed to hand it over.

hmmmmm nothing new here

But that's of course not correct. They initially didn't hand it over but after the big ruckus of "all used up" they finally agreed to hand it over for independent testing. And then the defense decided not to test.

replicated DNA that was being offered to the defense for retesting is not an original sample, there is no way to tell if this dna came from slaiva - sperm - blood etc it has already been processed and extracted, it is absolutly usless to make a confirmation match in a criminal case, a criminal case involves matching dna from a crime scene to an accused, i.e. 2 sets of dna to be compared from two sources, extracted or processed dna could be from the same sample i.e. the accused saliva

It would be like taking another saliva sample from the B2 and comparing it with a saliva sample taken earlier - absolutely useless at proving anything

This is why I keep repeating (and certain people keep ignoring)that in order to do a confirmation dna retest,

************only the original samples taken from the victim can be used************

The offer from the prosecution was a ploy and the defence obviously under advisement - declined

[lucky11]

Sorry, but I don't lie - ever, and I'm proud of this fact!!

It was never explained to me in terms that I understood.

I only spotted the 'if' in the wrongly sequenced, as far as I could make out, series of partial tweets late on.

It didn't make sense to me as to how this could have happened (miss sequenced) - what about A Hall's 'alarmed' response to when he read what JH was Tweeting?

[stephenterry]

serial number of David Millers iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

I would like to know the source of this news article and why it has been released - it adds nothing

who on earth is ................What's on Sukhumvit................seriously

and from the source Buzzfeed news

Lawyers representing the pair said DNA samples from the alleged murder weapon a garden hoe did not match that of the two men, and Thailands leading forensic scientist told the court that the evidence had been so badly mishandled that it was worthless.

The prosecution case had also rested heavily on sperm samples collected from the crime scene, but when the defence asked to have the DNA independently tested Thai police officers failed to hand it over.

hmmmmm nothing new here

But that's of course not correct. They initially didn't hand it over but after the big ruckus of "all used up" they finally agreed to hand it over for independent testing. And then the defense decided not to test.

replicated DNA that was being offered to the defense for retesting is not an original sample, there is no way to tell if this dna came from slaiva - sperm - blood etc it has already been processed and extracted, it is absolutly usless to make a confirmation match in a criminal case, a criminal case involves matching dna from a crime scene to an accused, i.e. 2 sets of dna to be compared from two sources, extracted or processed dna could be from the same sample i.e. the accused saliva

It would be like taking another saliva sample from the B2 and comparing it with a saliva sample taken earlier - absolutely useless at proving anything

This is why I keep repeating (and certain people keep ignoring)that in order to do a confirmation dna retest,

************only the original samples taken from the victim can be used************

The offer from the prosecution was a ploy and the defence obviously under advisement - declined

Exactly. But either posters don't quite grasp the rationale, or they're trying to deliberately misinform. Anyway, it's history now - but could be an appeal point.

[Thingamabob]

I suspect that the British police were clueless regarding the way things work in Thailand. They have unwittingly provided a prop for the Thai police to use against the defendants.

[smedly]

Did they find ANY fingerprints on the phone?

regards Worgeordie

Yes and it is important to understand what is actually being said here

All that was confirmed from the UK (and to an extent it matters not who confirmed it) was an IMEI number provided by Thai police, it is the Thai police that are claiming that this IMEI was from the phone found at the B2 residence and not the one found at the crimescene, it remains up to each one of us what you want to believe, considering how evidence is handled and how things seem to get made up to match the story - I know exactly what I believe or rather should I say unconvinced, I might have been more convinced if the police had clearly identified both iphones and who owned them along with dna and fingerprints

[louse1953]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

Face up, according to the photos!

Try to stick with the facts, you so vehemently ask others to stick to!

How do you get water in your lungs,face up.

[KunMatt]

Sorry, but I don't lie - ever, and I'm proud of this fact!!

It was never explained to me in terms that I understood.

I only spotted the 'if' in the wrongly sequenced, as far as I could make out, series of partial tweets late on.

It didn't make sense to me as to how this could have happened (miss sequenced) - what about A Hall's 'alarmed' response to when he read what JH was Tweeting?

Right now you are also deliberately not talking the truth or about what actually happened. You blatantly ignored everyone who explained the truth to you many, many times over a whole week just so you could continue to carry on your non-argument about nothing. Don't pretend it was any other way.

[balo]

The phone was not a crucial evidence , it's just one of many "mysteries" so nothing new here.

[Tanlic]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was lying on the ground when he was hit according to the reenactment, but even if he wasn't, you get hit with a Thai hoe you are going down no matter what size you are.

The use the same or similar on building sites and women can swing them about never mind a fit Burmese guy.

You got some real good conspiracy theories there straight out of JFK.

How utterly obtuse. You obviously haven't followed the case or seen the pics of David's wounds.

Do you mean the photos on live leak that would indicate he was struck above his right ear with a heavy object?

I am only going by what I have read so please if you are going to throw abuse at me come up with something to back it up.

As far as I am concerned if you or anyone else think that these two boys couldn't overpower an unsuspecting farang then you are sadly mistaken.

If you think their size in any way goes an inch towards proving their innocent then you are wired to the moon.

I have read some nonsense on Thaivisa and the post I commented is right up there with the best.

The girl would have run away? Because of a cover up? Killer known to the Police? Influential on the Island? It is lawless in the sticks?

If someone was beating on me my girl would be frozen to the spot.

A cover up. So over 100 senior officer decided to stay silent with the PM we now have looking over them.

If this was a cover up it's bigger than JFK and no way would they risk their careers by doing so.

The PM is happy the British Police are happy the family are happy with the result and still the Thai bashers say wasn't them!!!!!!!

You don't walk along a beach at night in the dark and find a phone when you decide to go wash yourself in the sea in the rain.

These two killed this couple nothing surer and it's about time you Thaibashers realised there was no conspiracy or cover up.

You have all chose to ignore the several changes to the defence s story about torture. In one week talking to the press it change for rubber hose to water torture to death threats to burning by petrol or whatever.

These two have never cried out they were innocent publically......even Lee harvey oswald cried out for help saying he was a patsy.

I think anyone who has been beaten and abused the way they claim, knowing they were going to be sentenced to death would say something but they remained silent showing no remorse.

No cries of it wasn't me just nothing...for me that is a sure fire sign of someone who is ashamed of what they have done.

If I am wrong so be it but I like everyone else I am entitled to my opinion...everyone that is except you

[evadgib]

I suspect that the British police were clueless regarding the way things work in Thailand. They have unwittingly provided a prop for the Thai police to use against the defendants.

Given their full time presence in Bkk and the volume of cases the opposite is far more likely.

This thread is the result of a sensationalized headline on a no news day.

[Ulic]

Here is what I know.

1/ Thai police are corrupt

2/ Thai police are not as incompetent as Thai Visa readers believe

3/ Thai police are not nearly as good as they believe they are

and still don't realize Farangs don't believe everything they say.

4/ I know that I don't know if the defendants are guilty or not. I was

not at the trial and I have read one sided reports from reporters mostly

covering the story from the defense point of view, and a police team

that is not used to being challenged. Of course I am the guy that

believes OJ is guilty, even though by western standards he was found

not guilty.