White Temple in Chiang Rai to charge foreign visitors

[boomerangutang]

The Dalai Lama is a foreigner, would he get charged accordingly? Same with Buddha, but he's long deceased.

Seriously folks. It's not a temple in the real sense, it's a glorified piece of art, and the lower parts are turning to gray from white.

Wait until the giant white female Buddha statue officially opens. I predict it will get as many or visitors than its rival. The two places are competing with each other, because monks or not, it's about money and prestige. Already there are long convoys of double decker buses going to and fro the White Buddha, and all the visitors in those buses are Asian. In the overall picture, Buddhism in Thailand is creeping closer to Barnum and Bailey. They're trying to out-Disney each other, because more tourists = more money and notoriety. Both those White temple places in Chiang Rai, one north and one south of the city, are flush with beaucoup money, and hoping to pile on more of the stuff.

[CoreanoOzzie]

The desire to bash all things Thai has yet again overridden all logic and common sense. The owner of the temple is an artist, he built it as an expression of art, his other works are to be seen in the nearby art museum. He wanted everyone to see his work so he opened it up to the public, pretty soon he became overwhelmed by the number of tourists and the cost of upkeep hence he's now charging a small admittance fee. He's overwhelmed by tourists, mostly Chinese, he's not overwhelmed by Thai nationals hence he's charging the people who are costing him most. If anybody can't see the logic and fairness of all that, feel free to bash away.

I'm not Chinese. I'm from European ancestry. It's the concept that no matter how much we contribute to Thai society, we are always nothing but Outsiders, and will always be nothing but Outsiders. Never accepted. That's simply sad, and for a professed Buddhist nation, it's counter-intuitive.

Same things happen in any other country in the world. Is an Asian or other non-white immigrant truly accepted in a Western country? Nopers.

[Finlaco]

I always think such a tread gives a good insight into the various types of farang who live in Thailand. Before any of us arrived in Thailand we all lived in a society when the concept is/was ‘it’s not the money but the principle’ prevailed, and where it’s not normal to self justify why one should pay more for a product or service. We’d also be aware that a fool and his money are easily separated.

The same concepts/principles apply in Thailand. No Thai person seeks to pay more for a similar product or service. Many Thai in the service industries (broad meaning) will attempt to convince the recently arrived Farang that Thai people like kind and generous foreigners (aka naive and innocent). I suggest you people watch at a Thai border market with Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar and decide whether Thai people are kind and generous with their less fortunate neighbours, or whether they bargain to the nearest bath.

When I was new to Thailand and family or friends were visting for the first time, I'd forward article like this (dual pricing) for them to read to get an idea of how Thai people might perceive foreigners - Kind and Generous or Naive and Innocent.

Thailand is not a poor country and it’s interesting to see how many foreigners self justify why non-Thai (only) ought to pay for the upkeep of Thai buildings etc...or pay xx times local rates ...

If you think you know Thailand then you must have an idea of what Thai people perceive farang to be and strange that many seem to think that by paying more, a local person might, just might like you more.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being liked more or otherwise. I say, the private owner of the temple has come up with a business model that involves who he charges and how much, I look at that model and I think it's not unreasonable. I am not being forced to go to the temple, I go to the temple of my own free will in the knowledge that it will cost me 50 or 100 baht, that's my choice, I do it because I think it represents good value for money to me. I spend not one iota of time thinking or being concerned that a native Thai got in for free, that's not my business whatsoever and does not interest me.

I also accept that a feature of the landscape for foreigners in Thailand is the dual pricing system, every time I encounter it I make a decision, do I want to pay what's being asked, is that good value for money for me, if it is I pay if it isn't I leave. Once again I don't spend a moment thinking about how much other people are or are not paying, that's not my business and doesn't interest me. Being liked more or less is of zero relevance.

Maybe you could give a few examples where in your home country you act similarly and gladly pay more without concern what other pay? or does this only happen to you when you are in Thailand and have you ever pondered why and equally important what locals think abort your generosity?

[chiang mai]

It has absolutely nothing to do with being liked more or otherwise. I say, the private owner of the temple has come up with a business model that involves who he charges and how much, I look at that model and I think it's not unreasonable. I am not being forced to go to the temple, I go to the temple of my own free will in the knowledge that it will cost me 50 or 100 baht, that's my choice, I do it because I think it represents good value for money to me. I spend not one iota of time thinking or being concerned that a native Thai got in for free, that's not my business whatsoever and does not interest me.

I also accept that a feature of the landscape for foreigners in Thailand is the dual pricing system, every time I encounter it I make a decision, do I want to pay what's being asked, is that good value for money for me, if it is I pay if it isn't I leave. Once again I don't spend a moment thinking about how much other people are or are not paying, that's not my business and doesn't interest me. Being liked more or less is of zero relevance.

Maybe you could give a few examples where in your home country you act similarly and gladly pay more without concern what other pay? or does this only happen to you when you are in Thailand and have you ever pondered why and equally important what locals think abort your generosity?

Why? Why is it necessary for me to do that, does there really need to be a precedent for this, it's a private venture!

I don't know what point you want to try and make here but if you disagree with my view simply say so and we can agree to disagree. I accept that Thailand takes a different approach to many things than my birth country does but this is now my home and I am willing and able to go along with the differences between the two, if others cannot they shouldn't live here. Dual pricing is a feature here that doesn't cause me the same distress it causes you, if I want to pay I pay, if not then I don't, I mean, it's not as though the things that are being dual priced include food, water and air, they're all just tourist attractions and I don't feel the need to explain my logic behind paying or not, it's simply personal choice!

[Finlaco]

It has absolutely nothing to do with being liked more or otherwise. I say, the private owner of the temple has come up with a business model that involves who he charges and how much, I look at that model and I think it's not unreasonable. I am not being forced to go to the temple, I go to the temple of my own free will in the knowledge that it will cost me 50 or 100 baht, that's my choice, I do it because I think it represents good value for money to me. I spend not one iota of time thinking or being concerned that a native Thai got in for free, that's not my business whatsoever and does not interest me.

I also accept that a feature of the landscape for foreigners in Thailand is the dual pricing system, every time I encounter it I make a decision, do I want to pay what's being asked, is that good value for money for me, if it is I pay if it isn't I leave. Once again I don't spend a moment thinking about how much other people are or are not paying, that's not my business and doesn't interest me. Being liked more or less is of zero relevance.

Maybe you could give a few examples where in your home country you act similarly and gladly pay more without concern what other pay? or does this only happen to you when you are in Thailand and have you ever pondered why and equally important what locals think abort your generosity?

Why? Why is it necessary for me to do that, does there really need to be a precedent for this, it's a private venture!

I don't know what point you want to try and make here but if you disagree with my view simply say so and we can agree to disagree. I accept that Thailand takes a different approach to many things than my birth country does but this is now my home and I am willing and able to go along with the differences between the two, if others cannot they shouldn't live here. Dual pricing is a feature here that doesn't cause me the same distress it causes you, if I want to pay I pay, if not then I don't, I mean, it's not as though the things that are being dual priced include food, water and air, they're all just tourist attractions and I don't feel the need to explain my logic behind paying or not, it's simply personal choice!

Why? Why is it necessary for me to do that,

because it would be nice to see if your position is based on reason, logic, facts and common sense. You seem to realise that its not how you ordinarily behave in your own country, nor is it how Thai people behave in their own country (never met a Thai who sought to pay extra) - I and others are trying to understand your 'logic and reason' and how you imagine Thai people judge your kindness and generously.

[chiang mai]

It has absolutely nothing to do with being liked more or otherwise. I say, the private owner of the temple has come up with a business model that involves who he charges and how much, I look at that model and I think it's not unreasonable. I am not being forced to go to the temple, I go to the temple of my own free will in the knowledge that it will cost me 50 or 100 baht, that's my choice, I do it because I think it represents good value for money to me. I spend not one iota of time thinking or being concerned that a native Thai got in for free, that's not my business whatsoever and does not interest me.

I also accept that a feature of the landscape for foreigners in Thailand is the dual pricing system, every time I encounter it I make a decision, do I want to pay what's being asked, is that good value for money for me, if it is I pay if it isn't I leave. Once again I don't spend a moment thinking about how much other people are or are not paying, that's not my business and doesn't interest me. Being liked more or less is of zero relevance.

Maybe you could give a few examples where in your home country you act similarly and gladly pay more without concern what other pay? or does this only happen to you when you are in Thailand and have you ever pondered why and equally important what locals think abort your generosity?

Why? Why is it necessary for me to do that, does there really need to be a precedent for this, it's a private venture!

I don't know what point you want to try and make here but if you disagree with my view simply say so and we can agree to disagree. I accept that Thailand takes a different approach to many things than my birth country does but this is now my home and I am willing and able to go along with the differences between the two, if others cannot they shouldn't live here. Dual pricing is a feature here that doesn't cause me the same distress it causes you, if I want to pay I pay, if not then I don't, I mean, it's not as though the things that are being dual priced include food, water and air, they're all just tourist attractions and I don't feel the need to explain my logic behind paying or not, it's simply personal choice!

Why? Why is it necessary for me to do that,

because it would be nice to see if your position is based on reason, logic, facts and common sense. You seem to realise that its not how you ordinarily behave in your own country, nor is it how Thai people behave in their own country (never met a Thai who sought to pay extra) - I and others are trying to understand your 'logic and reason' and how you imagine Thai people judge your kindness and generously.

If you read my previous post carefully you will find you have all the information you need from me on this subject. Now you're starting to get annoying so please, go and troll somebody else because I'm done giving you the same information repeatedly, I feel no need whatsoever to account to you any further the reasons for my beliefs or actions, other than what I've already set out.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

i don't understand this... well, i do, but don't like it...

Thais are free, but foreigners have to pay..... hmmmm...... another big F U to farangs.....typical.... we're only good for our money

[chiang mai]

i don't understand this... well, i do, but don't like it...

Thais are free, but foreigners have to pay..... hmmmm...... another big F U to farangs.....typical.... we're only good for our money

And I don't understand that attitude. Surely people look at these sights and attractions and ask themselves, do I want to visit and does it represent fair value for money FOR ME. Looking at a particular attraction and saying yes, I'd like to see it and yes, the entrance fee is very reasonable is OK, but then to turn round and say no, I'm not going to see it because somebody else pays a smaller entrance fee or indeed no entrance fee at all, seems really odd to me, what other people pay or don't pay isn't part of my personal pleasure picture and I'm surprised that it is for others.

[sceadugenga]

It's the inability to look at the big picture CM, we have a great lifestyle and low cost of living in a country that allows retirees to settle, usually on acceptable visa terms.

So you lose a little on stuff like entry fees.

[northernjohn]

The desire to bash all things Thai has yet again overridden all logic and common sense. The owner of the temple is an artist, he built it as an expression of art, his other works are to be seen in the nearby art museum. He wanted everyone to see his work so he opened it up to the public, pretty soon he became overwhelmed by the number of tourists and the cost of upkeep hence he's now charging a small admittance fee. He's overwhelmed by tourists, mostly Chinese, he's not overwhelmed by Thai nationals hence he's charging the people who are costing him most. If anybody can't see the logic and fairness of all that, feel free to bash away.

I agree with you 100%

I first saw this on another thread that was closed and redirected here. It did not mention that it is just 100 baht for the whole deal temple only 50 baht. It takes money to run an operation like this. mere drop in the bucket for a tourist. For the common Thai 1/3 of a days wages.

Not going to waste any more time on this no brainer.

[Jip99]

i don't understand this... well, i do, but don't like it...

Thais are free, but foreigners have to pay..... hmmmm...... another big F U to farangs.....typical.... we're only good for our money

And I don't understand that attitude. Surely people look at these sights and attractions and ask themselves, do I want to visit and does it represent fair value for money FOR ME. Looking at a particular attraction and saying yes, I'd like to see it and yes, the entrance fee is very reasonable is OK, but then to turn round and say no, I'm not going to see it because somebody else pays a smaller entrance fee or indeed no entrance fee at all, seems really odd to me, what other people pay or don't pay isn't part of my personal pleasure picture and I'm surprised that it is for others.

+1

I see nothing wrong in Thais getting in free anywhere.

I see nothing wrong in paying to see an attraction that interests me.

[pomchop]

Everybody loves a discount as long as they are on the receiving end of it.

For all those who think nobody gets discounts or freebies outside of Thais be sure and turn down that senior citizens discount when it is offered to you in your home country. It's discrimination and of course NOBODY would want any part of that. Unless YOU are a senior citizen in which case it's great.

[dcnx]

He should charge everyone. However, this is Thailand and he is Thai. An artist he may be but Thainess runs through his veins.

Seen it once, no need to return. It was OK by Thai standards, but a Taj Mahal it is not.

[cyberfarang]

Nothing much to see inside the white temple. Don`t go in, missed nothing. Have your photos taken outside and then go somewhere else, save yourselves some money.

[connda]

100 baht now , if they realize they can earn money on this foreigners have to pay 500 baht tomorrow.

I don't go to Doi Inthanon any longer either due to the charge. But once compared to the grandeur of, say, Mount Rainier, there is nothing much to see at Doi Inthanon anyway. Frost? How about 30 feet of snow? Trees? How about old growth timber. And at the entrance of Mount Rainier National Park, everyone foreigner and citizen, are charged the same. So yeah, I vote with my feet.

No everyone is NOT charged the same...there are senior and kids discounts along with military and disabled discounts:

The Senior Pass is a major benefit for those getting older. People aged 62 and up can get a lifetime pass that functions like the Interagency pass, giving access to national parks, national forests and more. The Access Passis a free lifetime pass for those with a permanent disability. There also are free U.S. military passes and free volunteer passes.

You're splitting hair at best. Their is no discrimination based on race, ethnicity, or home of origin as there is in Thailand.

[chiang mai]

100 baht now , if they realize they can earn money on this foreigners have to pay 500 baht tomorrow.

I don't go to Doi Inthanon any longer either due to the charge. But once compared to the grandeur of, say, Mount Rainier, there is nothing much to see at Doi Inthanon anyway. Frost? How about 30 feet of snow? Trees? How about old growth timber. And at the entrance of Mount Rainier National Park, everyone foreigner and citizen, are charged the same. So yeah, I vote with my feet.

No everyone is NOT charged the same...there are senior and kids discounts along with military and disabled discounts:

The Senior Pass is a major benefit for those getting older. People aged 62 and up can get a lifetime pass that functions like the Interagency pass, giving access to national parks, national forests and more. The Access Passis a free lifetime pass for those with a permanent disability. There also are free U.S. military passes and free volunteer passes.

You're splitting hair at best. Their is no discrimination based on race, ethnicity, or home of origin as there is in Thailand.

Thailand does not discriminate on the basis of any of those things, it discriminates solely on the basis of nationality, not religion, not skin colour, not race, not heritage, just nationality.

[pod8460]

just the outside of this temple is interresting, so why enter into ?

Agreed, I won't be going. What their charging isn't the issue. It's charging foreigners for every little thing they can think of that is the issue. I'd rather they just ban foreigners from going. There are enough crappy stores and services here that get my money. Not paying for any tourist attractions like this. There are many more interesting temples near this region where you can go and enjoy for free. One is close to the tea plantation. I forget the name but you can go pray in the temple, feed the cliff monkey's, paddle boat in the small pond and simply enjoy yourself along with everyone else. You spend your money on the vendors that are there that provide food, trinkets, and other hand-made items.

I am not sure you can realistically compare these two places.

[Hiyaall]

Did somone say "Feed the cliff monkeys." Dam it. I missed that. I don't know why, but that phrase is makeing me laugh.

When I was at the white temple, it was terribly crowded. I'm all for a fee making it less crowded and let those who will pay pay and those who don't go elsewhere. I enjoyed walking across the bridge and what it symbolizes. I was intrigued by the Star Wars and minion art on the inside. It forced me to look up what was actually going on there and learn about the artists, the earthquake, the reconstruction. I'm better and more knowledgable now and I would have gladly have paid for it. In fact I bought a shirt as way of making a contribution. If the artists feels that not charging thais is a way of giving back to his own people then so be it.

[Trujillo]

Pensioners' discounts are not discriminatory; they are old age benefits. If you live long enough, society gives you a break. Do you give up your seat on the bus to an elderly person or do you just say, "Suck on it grampa! Just hang on to the pole."

[my friend I]

Many Thais donate BT 100 or more per visit.

[luke000]

Pensioners' discounts are not discriminatory; they are old age benefits.

You need to get used to the fact that you a Foreigner in Thailand and its your privilege to be allowed to stay here .

You must also go regularly to the Thai authorities to ask them to grant you that privilege to stay .

[andre47]

Pensioners' discounts are not discriminatory; they are old age benefits.

You need to get used to the fact that you a Foreigner in Thailand and its your privilege to be allowed to stay here .

You must also go regularly to the Thai authorities to ask them to grant you that privilege to stay .

Good that I don't have to ask you for granting that privilege.

[boomerangutang]

Thailand does not discriminate on the basis of any of those things, it discriminates solely on the basis of nationality, not religion, not skin colour, not race, not heritage, just nationality.

In a strict sense, yes. But as a farang approaches a Thai park or the White Temple, he/she is judged on appearance, sometimes from 50 meters away. You and I can tell a Thai from a non-Thai at fifty paces, and so can the people taking money at those public sites. Neither we nor the money-takers need to see ID to gauge who is farang and who is Thai. Farang already know they're farang, and many don't particularly like being reminded in such a crass fashion (as being required to pay more than the next person, due to physical appearance).

Perhaps the rules don't state it's based on physical appearance, but physical appearance is what it boils down to.

There's also a deep-set belief in Thai minds that every farang in Thailand is rich, or at least can go everyday to the ATM and withdraw the maximum Bt.20,000. Also, the wrong-headed dual-pricing doesn't take into account that many Thai are well-off financially, and some Thais are richer than most farang can ever hope to be. Do the money-takers ask the Thais if they can afford the ticket price? Or do they ask to see the net worth of Thais who want entry to the site? Of course not.

Similarly, a farang with SE Asian features can probably walk in for free, because that person is assumed to be Thai - unless that person is accompanied by a farang, or is dressed non-Thai attire, or is accompanied by kids who don't look entirely Thai.

All in all, it's a dumb and discriminatory rule. Double pricing is biased and old school. Better would be a 'suggested entry fee'.

People could choose to pay, or choose not to pay. You might say, "well, then no one would pay," ....but I don't think that's so. For example, there is software on the internet which is free, but asks for a donation. I sometimes donate, as do others.

[sceadugenga]

I think that a previous post offers a reasonable point that many Thais make donations when visiting.

The complex has been built by donations and possibly Thai government contributions and I suggest that the earthquake repairs were paid for in a similar fashion.

Maybe asking foreigners to contribute doesn't seem quite so unreasonable in this light.

[boomerangutang]

Asking for donations is fine. This thread is about requiring fees from some people and allowing others to enter for free - based on physical characteristics (though purportedly based on nationality).

[scorpio1945]

Seems like a Don Quixote issue.

[villagefarang]

So, what is the windmill?

[villagefarang]

I really appreciate that Webfact posts these news items in our local forum, especially when they are not drug or crime related. It helps to direct traffic to our quite and polite little forum.

Some will argue this is a temple, while others will say it is a privately owned tourist attraction. Some will say 50 baht is insignificant and others will try to blow it out of proportion, claiming some western notions of principle or fairness which they consider universal but aren’t.

As long as people remain civil and respectful of those with different views, I think it makes for an interesting conversation and a chance for people to express their opinions.

For me the question is simply about what I am going to do. Am I going to go or not. I am not authoritarian by nature and don’t feel qualified to make proclamations about how things should be or what others should do. Even if people want to joust at windmills it is fine with me, even though I may find it silly or useless.

[SoilSpoil]

I wonder how the owner of this pretend temple would feel if he was asked to pay an entrance fee in lets say Parc de Boulogne in Paris because he is asian.

[matimati]

As long as I can buy a coconut ice afterwards I will gladly donate my 100 bt to see everything. Perspective is everything.