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Haze starts to cover Phayao despite 60-day burning ban

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Why is the above map low resolution? It's supposed to be 3mb. That's the size of the jpeg I attached.

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I get Geri kid's astonishment at what is going on here. But I think he sees the villagers as heartless beasts who are inflicting this condition on the rest of us just because they can. Actually they hate the smoke too, but they see it as a necessary evil because they want to plant a crop and get paid. Composting a mountainside is beyond their understanding and is far too labor intensive to trump a 2 litre bottle of diesel and a lighter. The right direction for change lies in deducing the right methods and teaching the people how to clear their land in a sensible and renewable manner. Or how to use permaculture and work with the natural elements. But people aren't going to know how to do it different just because Geri got on a bus and didn't like what he saw.

They need to be shown and if it is uneconomical to do it better, in a healthy way. The government (or better yet CP) needs to provide incentives.

Until then, locking up and shooting peasant farmers, trying to scratch together enough money to feed their kids, is not going to do more than provide a scapegoat the for millions of others who will continue to slash and burn.

PS: in my part of Chiang Rai, I haven't seen a single burning field since the ban started about 5 weeks ago. In fact even when I have travelled further out, there is no burning anywhere here. Yet today visibility was hardly more than a kilometre. So I know for sure, A lot of this stuff is coming out of Burma. And what can be done about that?

Well said.wai.gif

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PS: in my part of Chiang Rai, I haven't seen a single burning field since the ban started about 5 weeks ago. In fact even when I have travelled further out, there is no burning anywhere here. Yet today visibility was hardly more than a kilometre. So I know for sure, A lot of this stuff is coming out of Burma. And what can be done about that?

Probably Laos as well. Attached is a detailed map showing the recent fires during a 7 day period. The whole region which includes Laos, Myanmar and Northern Thailand seems all equally bad.

attachicon.gifFires during the past 7 days.jpg

I overlaid the Thai borders so you can see that Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are pretty well behaved these last 7 days; compared to the inferno you would normally see this time of year. But Phayao, Lampang and Mae Hong Song seemed to be undeterred by the ban. Also you can see that Burma is out doing us by a huge margin and this time of year that is where the prevailing wind comes from.

I think the reduction in burning in Thailand is remarkable, but Burma is out to kill us all apparently

post-10408-0-23569400-1458910095_thumb.j

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VincentRJ, nope it's 91kb. biggrin.png

I know, but the image I attached was 3mb, after decompressing. Why? That's my question. All the images I've recently attached have appeared only as thumbnails. Is my operating system (Windows 7 professional) not compatible?

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VincentRJ, nope it's 91kb. biggrin.png

I know, but the image I attached was 3mb, after decompressing. Why? That's my question. All the images I've recently attached have appeared only as thumbnails. Is my operating system (Windows 7 professional) not compatible?

No, it's likely the forum software does its own compression to prevent huge images from being posted in threads, slowing down those with low-bandwidth connections.

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I overlaid the Thai borders so you can see that Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are pretty well behaved these last 7 days; compared to the inferno you would normally see this time of year. But Phayao, Lampang and Mae Hong Song seemed to be undeterred by the ban. Also you can see that Burma is out doing us by a huge margin and this time of year that is where the prevailing wind comes from.

I think the reduction in burning in Thailand is remarkable, but Burma is out to kill us all apparently

Thanks for that. Good idea! There seems to be a particularly bad patch in the most southern part of Laos, to the west of Vientiane. I guess that would affect people living near the Laos/Thai border. However, there are no major cities in that part of Thailand so perhaps it's not perceived as being a major problem. I think Loei might be fairly close to that part of Laos. The most dense areas of burn-off definitely seem to be the parts of Burma adjoining the Thai border.

I've tried to create a more detailed map of the area, as attached. The message I get next to the 'Attach Files' heading is (Max. single file size: 100MB). The file I'm attaching is only 4.5MB uncompressed, and 2.5MB when compressed into jpeg.

post-118979-0-15844600-1458944752_thumb.

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Even though you are finding it difficult . I appreciate your effort, totally beyond my ability by a mile. And a picture is worth a 1000, words as they say. It really helps put it into perspective that Thailand has made a lot of improvement on this from other years.

thanks again Vincent RJ

Randell

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I get Geri kid's astonishment at what is going on here. But I think he sees the villagers as heartless beasts who are inflicting this condition on the rest of us just because they can. Actually they hate the smoke too, but they see it as a necessary evil because they want to plant a crop and get paid. Composting a mountainside is beyond their understanding and is far too labor intensive to trump a 2 litre bottle of diesel and a lighter. The right direction for change lies in deducing the right methods and teaching the people how to clear their land in a sensible and renewable manner. Or how to use permaculture and work with the natural elements. But people aren't going to know how to do it different just because Geri got on a bus and didn't like what he saw.

They need to be shown and if it is uneconomical to do it better, in a healthy way. The government (or better yet CP) needs to provide incentives.

Until then, locking up and shooting peasant farmers, trying to scratch together enough money to feed their kids, is not going to do more than provide a scapegoat the for millions of others who will continue to slash and burn.

PS: in my part of Chiang Rai, I haven't seen a single burning field since the ban started about 5 weeks ago. In fact even when I have travelled further out, there is no burning anywhere here. Yet today visibility was hardly more than a kilometre. So I know for sure, A lot of this stuff is coming out of Burma. And what can be done about that?

They want to plant a crop and get paid so they steal......yes steal the land from the people of Thailand and then destroy the ecostructure there. If they want to be paid they can pay all the costs and not just the 2 litres of petrol.

Too many people here sound like Tobaco manafacturers of the past...it is not harmfull.

Well. it is and it is the people here that suffer...my Mother In Law, my nieces and all the people here. The should not have to.

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I get Geri kid's astonishment at what is going on here. But I think he sees the villagers as heartless beasts who are inflicting this condition on the rest of us just because they can. Actually they hate the smoke too, but they see it as a necessary evil because they want to plant a crop and get paid. Composting a mountainside is beyond their understanding and is far too labor intensive to trump a 2 litre bottle of diesel and a lighter. The right direction for change lies in deducing the right methods and teaching the people how to clear their land in a sensible and renewable manner. Or how to use permaculture and work with the natural elements. But people aren't going to know how to do it different just because Geri got on a bus and didn't like what he saw.

They need to be shown and if it is uneconomical to do it better, in a healthy way. The government (or better yet CP) needs to provide incentives.

Until then, locking up and shooting peasant farmers, trying to scratch together enough money to feed their kids, is not going to do more than provide a scapegoat the for millions of others who will continue to slash and burn.

PS: in my part of Chiang Rai, I haven't seen a single burning field since the ban started about 5 weeks ago. In fact even when I have travelled further out, there is no burning anywhere here. Yet today visibility was hardly more than a kilometre. So I know for sure, A lot of this stuff is coming out of Burma. And what can be done about that?

If only it was a simple as you indicate. There is an erroneous assumption that poverty is the cause, and I direct your attention to the national GDP/GPP numbers. Chiang Rai is wealthier and better off than most of the North East and upper central regions. This does include the impact of the large amounts of foreign aid that has literally poured into the region for decades. Oh yes, I have heard of the plight of the poor hill tribes people etc. However, the amounts spent on their assistance seems to be overlooked. The "poor farmers" of the Chiang Rai region have received far more per capita in national subsidies and foreign aid than other parts of Thailand. Again, the North East has received the short end of the stick. My point is that the claims of poor farmers just trying to get by, is misleading. They are much better off than the farmers of the deep south and Issan.

Based upon the schedules of land ownership, the assumption that these are just individual subsistence farmers trying to get by is false. Large tracts of the land are owned or controlled by certain family blocs. The tenant farmers in many cases are just being told to go ahead and burn. Other portions of land are encroachments on supposed land reserves and crown lands. Yes, there are many individuals who burn, but there are a number of people who know better and who are in a position not to burn who continue to allow the burning on their lands. Connections, connections, more connections and political power bases. I often read of the big old bad boys of Bangkok. Well, the ones up North are just as big and bad, with the exception they are cruder and ruder.

There is repeated mention of education. Come on now.You know that there have been multiple efforts made, Posters, billboards, home visits etc. There was even the subsidy payments and distribution of fertilizer plan. Successive central governments tried. What was missing was enforcement.

I certainly am not advocating widescale slaughter of the arsonists. However, a couple people in each of the worst areas arrested and charged would be nice. Shooting a few of the arsonists as they set fires would put an end to the crisis quickly .IMO, they burn because they know they can get away with it, and the local powers don't do anything because some of them are implicated in the burning. The current crisis is all part of the endemic culture of corruption.

Anyway, no point me flogging a dead horse. You poor folks have to live with this. I don't . Between the dengue, TB, malaria, lack of quality health care and the dangerous air quality, you have enough issues to deal with and don't need my negative views. Chok dee.

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I get Geri kid's astonishment at what is going on here. But I think he sees the villagers as heartless beasts who are inflicting this condition on the rest of us just because they can. Actually they hate the smoke too, but they see it as a necessary evil because they want to plant a crop and get paid. Composting a mountainside is beyond their understanding and is far too labor intensive to trump a 2 litre bottle of diesel and a lighter. The right direction for change lies in deducing the right methods and teaching the people how to clear their land in a sensible and renewable manner. Or how to use permaculture and work with the natural elements. But people aren't going to know how to do it different just because Geri got on a bus and didn't like what he saw.

They need to be shown and if it is uneconomical to do it better, in a healthy way. The government (or better yet CP) needs to provide incentives.

Until then, locking up and shooting peasant farmers, trying to scratch together enough money to feed their kids, is not going to do more than provide a scapegoat the for millions of others who will continue to slash and burn.

PS: in my part of Chiang Rai, I haven't seen a single burning field since the ban started about 5 weeks ago. In fact even when I have travelled further out, there is no burning anywhere here. Yet today visibility was hardly more than a kilometre. So I know for sure, A lot of this stuff is coming out of Burma. And what can be done about that?

They want to plant a crop and get paid so they steal......yes steal the land from the people of Thailand and then destroy the ecostructure there. If they want to be paid they can pay all the costs and not just the 2 litres of petrol.

Too many people here sound like Tobaco manafacturers of the past...it is not harmfull.

Well. it is and it is the people here that suffer...my Mother In Law, my nieces and all the people here. The should not have to.

And the right action for the zero assets, subsistence farmers is?

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Too many people here sound like Tobaco manafacturers of the past...it is not harmfull.

Well. it is and it is the people here that suffer...my Mother In Law, my nieces and all the people here. The should not have to.

Last year, Singapore and Malaysia were quite affected by the Indonesian haze from end of August to 1st Nov. I posted some vids 1 page back.

Brunei and S Thailand (Phuket/Hatyai/Surathani/Narathiwat/Yala) were affected by a week or so and the smoke travelled to as far as Cambodia/Vietnam/Brunei/Guam/possibly Sri Lanka and Madagascar depending on the wind direction or influence of typhoons.

My colleague's 2 kids had been in and out of the A&E + locum GP for quite a few times, spent about the equivalent of ~ 30k baht. Retail shops were totally stripped bare of air purifiers, but luckily disposable N95s were still available (though obviously you can't wear them for long periods).

I had a total of about 2000 m3/hr of HEPA filtration from several air purifiers, about 500 m3/hr at my parent's place, and 150 m3/hr at my grandma's. Needed that because of 2 young kids and my parents take care of them when we are at work.

There isn't a need to wear a N95 if you were out there for short periods, but we wore one nevertheless since we bought our N95s very cheaply (Amazon, 1 box of 9210 20pcs were usd 4.05, free shipping to Singapore also!! cheesy.gif Bought quite a few boxes). We did not have any issues with the haze, luckily.

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