What do Thai Women look most for in Western Men?

[Fabricus]

I think we are talking cross-purposes here. I'm not talking about dating a Thai woman with a view to a relationship or marriage. I'm talking about pursuing a purely physical relationship (e.g. someone you have met at a shop or in your normal day to day business). She may be a teacher, a rural worker, stay-at-home Mum, gas station attendant, business owner, chef, waitress or whatever. She may be attracted to you and will have a physical relationship with you.

I am just saying that a decent bloke would make give her a gift or some other benefit. To just love her, and leave her with nothing, seems a bit rough. But many on TV think that is part of the game. Love 'em and leave them. Maybe that is what Thai men do, and part of the reason many otherwise decent Thai woman are happy to sleep with a farang. They may get something out of the relationship, but with a Thai man they know they will get nothing.

This: "To just love her, and leave her with nothing, seems a bit rough"

Why do you say "just love her" as opposed to something like "to give her the best sex she's ever had"?

When you leave her and walk out the door, do you feel like a man who's provided a needed and much-valued service, or a guy who just got lucky and ought to give a little something back.

The issue here is who's servicing who?

===

Change your attitude. Get fit. Get healthy. Get awesome. Be a service provider. Girls will love you for it. And they won't expect a cent.

You should listen to posters JAFO and AgentSumo -- they're right.

[rogeroc]

rogeroc, on 28 Jun 2016 - 09:49, said:

And you always miss the point, an average woman you meet in London will have approx 8 times the earning potential of an average Thai woman but you consider that a relationship should still be the same.

^ I do not think he misses the point quite frankly, I think you do Rogeroc. Clearly it appears you feel pity(or guilt) for the women you date because they have 8 times less the "earning" power as you stated compared to a western counterpart. You feel compelled to pay them for your relationship time. Why? Makes zero sense to me. However one theory that quickly comes to mind is if the age gap is significant, guilt may play a part in that thus you would feel more compelled to pay her because of it. If that's the case, then just say it. Why hide it all behind some earning power stuff.

Regardless of the reason dating is no different in Thailand then anywhere when its a "normal" type relationship. You meet, you date, initial meet is physical attraction as it always is. You go out, do things. during the dating you are assessing other attributes (humor, respect, intellect, etc). If during the course of dating you twist up some sheets or swing off the chandelier then its because of mutual chemistry, There was no financial or material expectations.

Again to Agent Sumo's post, I wouldn't buy them a dress, shoes, handbags, give them cash while dating early on. As a gentleman I would likely buy dinner, pay for trips somewhere etc. I am married now(Thai) and we dated for nearly 2 years before we married and we always shared expenses. Sometimes she would pay for the island weekend getaway entirely saying it was her "treat"

Again I think this all boils down to the company some keep and where they meet their women.

Thanks JAFO for a more reasoned argument on the subject without any pathetic insults. What i can say that my views about paying / gifting a partner (whom you have no imminent intention of a long term relationship with) is not about age difference as i am a relatively young retiree and i prefer older ladies. I am not sure guilt is quite the correct word either. In summary it is more about the earning potential of both parties, more so than what they actually earn. I spend most of my time in Thailand in Chiang Mai where even well educated ladies are struggling to find and maintain good employment opportunities, whereas throughout my life i have had loads of opportunities to be very comfortably off. In these circumstance i would feel extremely uncomfortable about not helping out a Thai lady who has given me a really nice evening / day / weekend and whose company i have greatly enjoyed. Of course the problem arises as how you achieve this as money would almost invariably be the preferred option but also starts to open the prostitution debate.

[JAFO]

rogeroc, on 28 Jun 2016 - 09:49, said:

And you always miss the point, an average woman you meet in London will have approx 8 times the earning potential of an average Thai woman but you consider that a relationship should still be the same.

^ I do not think he misses the point quite frankly, I think you do Rogeroc. Clearly it appears you feel pity(or guilt) for the women you date because they have 8 times less the "earning" power as you stated compared to a western counterpart. You feel compelled to pay them for your relationship time. Why? Makes zero sense to me. However one theory that quickly comes to mind is if the age gap is significant, guilt may play a part in that thus you would feel more compelled to pay her because of it. If that's the case, then just say it. Why hide it all behind some earning power stuff.

Regardless of the reason dating is no different in Thailand then anywhere when its a "normal" type relationship. You meet, you date, initial meet is physical attraction as it always is. You go out, do things. during the dating you are assessing other attributes (humor, respect, intellect, etc). If during the course of dating you twist up some sheets or swing off the chandelier then its because of mutual chemistry, There was no financial or material expectations.

Again to Agent Sumo's post, I wouldn't buy them a dress, shoes, handbags, give them cash while dating early on. As a gentleman I would likely buy dinner, pay for trips somewhere etc. I am married now(Thai) and we dated for nearly 2 years before we married and we always shared expenses. Sometimes she would pay for the island weekend getaway entirely saying it was her "treat"

Again I think this all boils down to the company some keep and where they meet their women.

Thanks JAFO for a more reasoned argument on the subject without any pathetic insults. What i can say that my views about paying / gifting a partner (whom you have no imminent intention of a long term relationship with) is not about age difference as i am a relatively young retiree and i prefer older ladies. I am not sure guilt is quite the correct word either. In summary it is more about the earning potential of both parties, more so than what they actually earn. I spend most of my time in Thailand in Chiang Mai where even well educated ladies are struggling to find and maintain good employment opportunities, whereas throughout my life i have had loads of opportunities to be very comfortably off. In these circumstance i would feel extremely uncomfortable about not helping out a Thai lady who has given me a really nice evening / day / weekend and whose company i have greatly enjoyed. Of course the problem arises as how you achieve this as money would almost invariably be the preferred option but also starts to open the prostitution debate.

Thanks Rogeroc, You know I get it. I do. Its easy here and reading this and other sites makes one feel like they are a bit obligated after the date went to a physical state, but isn't that the trap? Its a fine line. While I can appreciate that here is tough and many barely survive I always felt I would insult a women by "Rewarding" her some how (especially with money). Just seems in poor taste and I would suspect demean her to being a whore(Maybe Thai women do not know any better). If I was in the states and I was dating a gal and the end of the night I tossed her a C note I would expect her to call me names and slap the living sheeit out of me. I know my Thai wife here would have kicked me square in the nuts. But again she is older and knows better.

[Agent Sumo]

I think we are talking cross-purposes here. I'm not talking about dating a Thai woman with a view to a relationship or marriage. I'm talking about pursuing a purely physical relationship (e.g. someone you have met at a shop or in your normal day to day business). She may be a teacher, a rural worker, stay-at-home Mum, gas station attendant, business owner, chef, waitress or whatever. She may be attracted to you and will have a physical relationship with you.

I am just saying that a decent bloke would make give her a gift or some other benefit. To just love her, and leave her with nothing, seems a bit rough. But many on TV think that is part of the game. Love 'em and leave them. Maybe that is what Thai men do, and part of the reason many otherwise decent Thai woman are happy to sleep with a farang. They may get something out of the relationship, but with a Thai man they know they will get nothing.

So what you're saying is that, if one is not intent on having a relationship with or marrying a Thai woman, one should be compensating her when things get physical?

How ridiculous

You see, you're working on the premise that the woman in such circumstances is doing the man some kind of favour when, in reality, she may just simply be - horror of horrors - attracted to him.

I don't know, maybe you've forgotten what it's like to have a woman be attracted to you sexually. Maybe you're hideous and feel guilty or sorry for subjecting her to the ordeal of having sex with you.

Me, I don't have such hang ups.

In London, I often dated women who earned far less than I did. I never once felt obliged to leave cash on the dresser in the morning

I didn't do it in London so why on earth would I do it in Thailand

[rogeroc]

Agent Sumo - why don't you just stop your insults !

[Agent Sumo]

Agent Sumo - why don't you just stop your insults !

What insults?

I specifically said

I don't know, maybe you've forgotten what it's like to have a woman be attracted to you sexually. Maybe you're hideous and feel guilty or sorry for subjecting her to the ordeal of having sex with you.

[rogeroc]

Thanks Rogeroc, You know I get it. I do. Its easy here and reading this and other sites makes one feel like they are a bit obligated after the date went to a physical state, but isn't that the trap? Its a fine line. While I can appreciate that here is tough and many barely survive I always felt I would insult a women by "Rewarding" her some how (especially with money). Just seems in poor taste and I would suspect demean her to being a whore(Maybe Thai women do not know any better). If I was in the states and I was dating a gal and the end of the night I tossed her a C note I would expect her to call me names and slap the living sheeit out of me. I know my Thai wife here would have kicked me square in the nuts. But again she is older and knows better.

Indeed i have nearly been kicked in the nuts here in Thailand a couple of times ! We in the Western world are certainly conditioned into believing that direct payment for sex is wrong but we would be wrong not to re-question /re examine conditioned beliefs and not to approach life with an 'open mind'. Many Western women are of course also very orientated towards security and money in the dating game. As well as the compulsory GSOH that women want many also expect their future partner must have 'Own house and own car'. I believe there are also specific dating sites in the West for wealthy women searching only for even wealthier men !

[rogeroc]

Agent Sumo said In London, I often dated women who earned far less than I did. I never once felt obliged to leave cash on the dresser in the morning

I didn't do it in London so why on earth would I do it in Thailand

Surely you can think 'outside the box' a little and see some potential reasons whether you agree with them or not. By the way London is in the UK, not in Thailand if that helps.

[Stevemercer]

In western society you are not expected to 'pay' for sex as part of the dating game. In Thailand you may date a decent lady earning less than 200 Baht per day, with two kids and whose husband has run off with another girl. She may have never been with a farang before, or even kissed or experienced an orgasm. The sex might be the wonderful and something she willingly comes back for. But she will still be delighted to receive a gift of money to help her family. She will buy school clothes for her kids or new shoes. A gentleman would try and help her out a little. In my view, it is a bit immature to think that giving great sex is enough.

We are not in London, England, and we are not kids anymore (at least some of us).

[JAFO]

In western society you are not expected to 'pay' for sex as part of the dating game. In Thailand you may date a decent lady earning less than 200 Baht per day, with two kids and whose husband has run off with another girl. She may have never been with a farang before, or even kissed or experienced an orgasm. The sex might be the wonderful and something she willingly comes back for. But she will still be delighted to receive a gift of money to help her family. She will buy school clothes for her kids or new shoes. A gentleman would try and help her out a little. In my view, it is a bit immature to think that giving great sex is enough.

We are not in London, England, and we are not kids anymore (at least some of us).

See this is the rub. Some how it seems like you are justifying in your mind(using western society as a crutch) that giving her money for sex is not reducing her to a whore or a prostitute? Where is the line?, Going back to even the Roman days paying for sex was prostitution and considered illicit behavior. Where does the open mind come into play? Because you have done it and paid for it and some how justified that the gal helped her family with the money?. I'm sorry. I am not buying it.

I do not care how much they might make in a day. If the women(girl) has any self esteem she will know that taking money for a round in the sack has reduced her to a prostitute. But again as I said, depends on where you live, how young they are and how naive. They might not see having sex with an old man for money wrong because they have limited life experience and streets smarts. You are only as smart as your environment...right?. Might explain why many foreigner men go out to some village in Isaan to exploit the situation. Like stealing candy from a baby No?. Trust me I work with Thais and they know exactly what most foreigners are doing. It is discussed frequently.

[NoshowJones]

The average thai woman wants the same as most women of the world. Thai women hate stinky men hahahahahah,and pissheads/smokers

Bugger...really....

What about the fat, ugly, facial haired, tattooed brigade? I'm sure they will be near the top of the list.

I'm sure if they were not rich, no girl of any nationality would go near them.

[NoshowJones]

All girls are different. It seems the consensus here is tattoos are out. But the most tattooed bloke in thie video above, has the cutest white skinned girlfriend.

I love Thailand, beautiful girls for all!

He is a sexy star.... you are not.

Another case where only money talks, but wait a minute, I'm sure there will be silly teenagers who will go with them

just to show off to their pals.

[NoshowJones]

Thanks for that, very long but a worthwhile read.

Yes, but I was through about three paragraphs answering a poster yesterday, then it just disappeared before my very eyes, so from now on, I am going to make my posts as short as possible.

Imagine something like that happening near the end of this post.

[rogeroc]

See this is the rub. Some how it seems like you are justifying in your mind(using western society as a crutch) that giving her money for sex is not reducing her to a whore or a prostitute? Where is the line?, Going back to even the Roman days paying for sex was prostitution and considered illicit behavior. Where does the open mind come into play? Because you have done it and paid for it and some how justified that the gal helped her family with the money?. I'm sorry. I am not buying it.

I do not care how much they might make in a day. If the women(girl) has any self esteem she will know that taking money for a round in the sack has reduced her to a prostitute. But again as I said, depends on where you live, how young they are and how naive. They might not see having sex with an old man for money wrong because they have limited life experience and streets smarts. You are only as smart as your environment...right?. Might explain why many foreigner men go out to some village in Isaan to exploit the situation. Like stealing candy from a baby No?. Trust me I work with Thais and they know exactly what most foreigners are doing. It is discussed frequently.

I think it s more complicated than that. As an example say i meet a girl Online, she has a job, 6 days a week, Baht 12k, she has a hobby of playing golf but can only afford to play once a month as it is Baht 1k a time. We have a bite to eat, then we have sex, she goes home. She asks for nothing but i give her Baht 1k for an additional game of golf and she accepts. Does that make her a prostitute or not?

[i claudius]

What do they look for ? The same as any woman ,love ,companionship,financial security and a loving father for the kids,all the losers on here that say just money,more than likely married the first bar girl who looked at them

[Agent Sumo]

I think it s more complicated than that. As an example say i meet a girl Online, she has a job, 6 days a week, Baht 12k, she has a hobby of playing golf but can only afford to play once a month as it is Baht 1k a time. We have a bite to eat, then we have sex, she goes home. She asks for nothing but i give her Baht 1k for an additional game of golf and she accepts. Does that make her a prostitute or not?

If you don't give her that 1k unless you have sex, then yes, that's what you've made her.

Now, your contention during this thread has been that a foreign man with "8 times the earning potential" of a typical Thai woman should compensate her with gifts, cash etc if the relationship is sexual so it's reasonable to assume that you wouldn't cough up if the relationship was platonic

In your mind, the company, the meal and the sex isn't enough of a reward or suitable compensation for your date/girlfriend.

In your mind, you feel that she has to "gain something" from her association with you.

Sorry mate but you need to take a long, hard look within for your what seems to be lack of self-worth

I don't know about what other guys do but I most certainly don't get into discussions about what a woman earns until way, way down the line.

I can't think of a valid reason to ask the kind of women I deal with what they earn

[rogeroc]

How crazy is that, a man can make a girl a prostitute depending on his thought processes. Well at least you answered the question even though the answer is bizarre!

[Agent Sumo]

How crazy is that, a man can make a girl a prostitute depending on his thought processes. Well at least you answered the question even though the answer is bizarre!

Thought the truth would hurt

[Stevemercer]

I think there is no point arguing with some people. To say that what is acceptable in London must therefore be acceptable in Thailand is just ridiculous. To say that any woman who accepts a gift is a prostitute is ridiculous. To say that you don't know what a woman earns (I assume you have asked what she does for a living and therefore would know her likely salary) is just naive. To argue that you don't give a Thai lady a thing for a good time in the sack means you are a user (no matter how you try to justify it). To imply that, for a Thai lady, sex with ones self is enough reward is the sort of thing a tosser would say. No matter, it takes all kinds.

[Agent Sumo]

I think there is no point arguing with some people. To say that what is acceptable in London must therefore be acceptable in Thailand is just ridiculous. To say that any woman who accepts a gift is a prostitute is ridiculous. To say that you don't know what a woman earns (I assume you have asked what she does for a living and therefore would know her likely salary) is just naive. To argue that you don't give a Thai lady a thing for a good time in the sack means you are a user (no matter how you try to justify it). To imply that, for a Thai lady, sex with ones self is enough reward is the sort of thing a tosser would say. No matter, it takes all kinds.

Well, excuse me, but please point me to where it's written that it's unacceptable in Thailand to pursue a sexual relationship with a Thai woman one has no intention of marrying without compensating her in some way.

Why should I pay a woman for sex when she's having as good a time of it as I am especially when they neither expect nor demand it?

I prefer to pursue my relationships with Thai women in the same way I did with women in London.

That is, based on mutual attraction, some sort of common ground in terms of interest, the ability to enjoy their company and the mutual benefits of good sex.

I asked her what she does; she told me and that was that.

It's not my business how much she earns.

We're not pooling resources to buy a home or set up a life together so why should I be concerned about how much she pulls down?

You people make money an issue and that's why the tenure and/or duration of whatever relationship you have with Thai women will almost always come down to your ability/willingness to cough up the cash.

Men like me who eschew poor or financially-challenged local women don't have to deal with the nonsense you seem to think is part and parcel of dating in Thailand.

It works for me, it works for them, everyone's happy

You have a sad, puritanical and almost repressed view of sex as if women don't enjoy it and need to be compensated in some other way because only the man derives pleasure from it.

I'd venture that you believe that sex is something you do to someone, not with someone.

I feel nothing but pity for you.

[Stevemercer]

I have to call you out on this one Agent Sumo. I'm sure you are just trolling now. Nobody can be that self-delusional, up themselves or clueless about Thai culture!

[Agent Sumo]

I have to call you out on this one Agent Sumo. I'm sure you are just trolling now. Nobody can be that self-delusional, up themselves or clueless about Thai culture!

Yeah and I'm calling you out.

No one can be as completely and utterly clueless about women as you appear to be

[Stevemercer]

Clever and mature response! But I'll let you have the last word now.

[YeahSiam]

You have a sad, puritanical and almost repressed view of sex as if women don't enjoy it and need to be compensated in some other way because only the man derives pleasure from it.

It could be that they

just don't enjoy it with

him

[JAFO]

I think there is no point arguing with some people. To say that what is acceptable in London must therefore be acceptable in Thailand is just ridiculous. To say that any woman who accepts a gift is a prostitute is ridiculous. To say that you don't know what a woman earns (I assume you have asked what she does for a living and therefore would know her likely salary) is just naive. To argue that you don't give a Thai lady a thing for a good time in the sack means you are a user (no matter how you try to justify it). To imply that, for a Thai lady, sex with ones self is enough reward is the sort of thing a tosser would say. No matter, it takes all kinds.

Steve,

Again I am trying to understand your values. I think you are a bit lost or you never dated much in your early days and Thailand is your first go at it..

Hypothetically speaking if 2 adults meet, date, go to the movies or go bowling or have dinner and then if they happen to share some sack time if the man doesn't reward her some how(primarily money) he is a user.... Really???? You honestly believe that? What did you do in western country you came from? Did you date and pay her too? No wonder why Thai women have a distorted view of Foreigner men. If that Thai gal had any self esteem she should slap the snot of you for insulting her unless of course she was/is a bargirl then its all fair in the game.

If I was dating a Thai gal and we spun it up in bed, I wouldn't give her a penny. why? Pity? I couldn't even fathom it. I dated my now wife for 2 years before we got married and had I gave her money or bought her special things after we had shared intimate times she would have left me in a minute.

I think some how you feel guilty or ashamed and your way to ease that issue is pay her so you feel like some how you helped them.

To each his own.

[JAFO]

I have to call you out on this one Agent Sumo. I'm sure you are just trolling now. Nobody can be that self-delusional, up themselves or clueless about Thai culture!

Yeah and I'm calling you out.

No one can be as completely and utterly clueless about women as you appear to be

^Funny Steve, on the page before where I was responding to your post I was thinking that about you. Your moral compass can't be that off.

Now with that said, lets look at some information that may help some of us understand your thoughts;

How old are you +/-5 years?

How old are the gals you date +/-5 years

Where appx do you live in Thailand.

If you do not want to answer, its Ok.

[Stevemercer]

Jafo, I appreciate you are trying to be reasonable. Thailand is a transactional society and everything is done on an understanding of mutual trust and payback (e.g. you scratch my back and I will scratch your back some time when you need help). But at the end of it all, money is mutually acceptable as a gift of payback. Why do Thai people most often give a gift of money at weddings, funerals and other celebrations? How often has a Thai looked at you blankly when you give them a gift of some token you brought overseas? You quickly learn to give money because it is valued by everyone.

Farang do not sit comfortably in the hierarchy of Thai society and we can get away with many things that a Thai man could not. For example, you can openly flirt and even kiss a married Thai woman of 45 at a wedding, and laugh it off. A Thai man cannot do anything so lightly. If you choose to sleep with a Thai lady (and not as a potential girlfriend or wife, which is different), you have an obligation to her under Thai culture. Thai men often have a bad reputation because they do not accept this responsibility, Many Thai ladies, rightly or wrongly, believe that westerners are more accommodating and less likely to leave them with nothing. Of course, they enjoy the sex and say they don't want anything (sometimes even offering you money), but Thai women often just say what they think you want to hear.

A gentleman does not boast about his sexual conquests. If he is confident in his sexual ability he has no need. In Thai society, woman do not take offense if you give them a gift of money. In Thai culture this is acceptable in meeting the mutual obligation you owe her. They will put the money to good use. Her friends will admire her when she gossips to them about her affair with a farang. They will also want to know what the man gave her in exchange. If she says 'nothing' they will think she a stupid girl and she will loose face. So normally she will have to make something up.

I stress that I am just talking about a physical relationship. Not serious dating where the rules are different. But then we start getting into arguments about sin sod etc.

[rogeroc]

Why is there a need to personalise this debate? I think both yourself and AS have quite clearly brought your pre conditioned (but Post women's equality) Western views to Thailand with you. You both firmy believe that these views are also entirely appropriate in Thailand. I have been reluctant to mention culture differences re this subject before because i am no expert in Thai culture. However if you punch in prostitution and Thai culture on Google, articles come up that do indeed suggest the attitude towards prostitution in Thailand is very different than the teachings and attitude in the Western world. You are both ignoring these differences. Both of you have also made some sweeping assumptions about myself that simply are not true and i wouls guess Stevemercer feels exactly the same.

[Agent Sumo]

Why is there a need to personalise this debate? I think both yourself and AS have quite clearly brought your pre conditioned (but Post women's equality) Western views to Thailand with you. You both firmy believe that these views are also entirely appropriate in Thailand. I have been reluctant to mention culture differences re this subject before because i am no expert in Thai culture. However if you punch in prostitution and Thai culture on Google, articles come up that do indeed suggest the attitude towards prostition in Thailand is very different than the teachings and attitude in the Western world. You are both ignoring these differences. Both of you have also made some sweeping assumptions about myself that simply are not true and i wouls guess Stevemercer feels exactly the same.

Rubbish. Stevemercer has set out his stall as vividly as he can. No one had to make any assumptions.

He has sexual hangups consistent with a dinosaur's attitude towards females.

[Agent Sumo]

Jafo, I appreciate you are trying to be reasonable. Thailand is a transactional society and everything is done on an understanding of mutual trust and payback (e.g. you scratch my back and I will scratch your back some time when you need help). But at the end of it all, money is mutually acceptable as a gift of payback. Why do Thai people most often give a gift of money at weddings, funerals and other celebrations? How often has a Thai looked at you blankly when you give them a gift of some token you brought overseas? You quickly learn to give money because it is valued by everyone.

Farang do not sit comfortably in the hierarchy of Thai society and we can get away with many things that a Thai man could not. For example, you can openly flirt and even kiss a married Thai woman of 45 at a wedding, and laugh it off. A Thai man cannot do anything so lightly. If you choose to sleep with a Thai lady (and not as a potential girlfriend or wife, which is different), you have an obligation to her under Thai culture. Thai men often have a bad reputation because they do not accept this responsibility, Many Thai ladies, rightly or wrongly, believe that westerners are more accommodating and less likely to leave them with nothing. Of course, they enjoy the sex and say they don't want anything (sometimes even offering you money), but Thai women often just say what they think you want to hear.

A gentleman does not boast about his sexual conquests. If he is confident in his sexual ability he has no need. In Thai society, woman do not take offense if you give them a gift of money. In Thai culture this is acceptable in meeting the mutual obligation you owe her. They will put the money to good use. Her friends will admire her when she gossips to them about her affair with a farang. They will also want to know what the man gave her in exchange. If she says 'nothing' they will think she a stupid girl and she will loose face. So normally she will have to make something up.

I stress that I am just talking about a physical relationship. Not serious dating where the rules are different. But then we start getting into arguments about sin sod etc.

My God

What a twisted, dated little bubble you occupy.