Is it too late to stop the Donald Trump machine?

[inbangkok]

Republicans aren't voting for anything. They are voting against everything. They rejected the insiders' choice - Jeb Bush - out of hand. They rejected the insiders' next choice - Rubio - out of hand.

They are voting against decades of broken promises. They are voting against what appears to be an actual encouragement of illegal immigration and the costs that come with it. They are voting against making China rich while the American middle class suffers. They are voting against the newer trend to do the same with Mexico. They are voting against people insisting they be PC in a culture that has always prized free speech. They are voting against starting wars in God-forsaken places. They are voting against Obamacare which is a mandate that people make the health insurance companies rich out of their own pockets.

Hillary can't convince people that she would fix any of these things. She is part of the establishment that caused all of these problems. She can't run on her record because it sucks. She has a record of being sneaky and dishonest and taking big donations from foreign governments for the Clinton "foundation". She has a record of being pure sleaze. She and Bill have gotten filthy rich sucking at the teats of Wall Street and foreign governments while pretending that they are "for the little guy". What creeps. What awful, ugly creeps.

Now the ingrained corrupt R establishment is showing its true colors by scheming about how it can bump off Trump even if he has by far the most votes and replacing him with someone who didn't even bother to run. What arrogance. Wait for that explosion if they actually do it.

Americans have had enough and if someone doesn't realize it he isn't paying attention.

Cheers.

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

[boomerangutang]

So now it's about bone spurs, eh? . . . .

Trump has been caught in sooooo many lies, but you want to talk about his fictitious bone spurs? Ok. He got deferments from going to the VN war FIVE TIMES. He claimed he had a bone spurs ON ONE of his feet. Yet, when asked years later which foot, HE DIDN'T KNOW. Later still (after seeing it was another proof of Trump's lying propensity) Trump's handlers said the bone spurs were on both feet - so they're adding a lie on top of a lie. Note: While dodging going to fight for his country, he was actively playing 3 sports: baseball, squash and tennis. Not the type of running around you'd would expect a man with a bone spur to partake in. He was also going to night clubs every night, while John McCain was rotting in a VN prison. That wouldn't be an issue, except when Trump said McCain wasn't an American war hero.

After the 8 long years of the Obama fiasco, the USA deserves Trump.

What? ....as punishment as some weird Calvinistic reversal from having a decent, articulate, gentlemanly prez. Among other things, Obama didn't start any wars and also was not smeared by any malfeasance. Please name one Republican president since Eisenhower - about whom you can say the same. Ok maybe Ford, but only because he just played golf and not much else for his short term. Trump would have a mini- or major screw up every day, like he's having now, during the campaign.

Lol, thatcher was the best president you ever had after churchill.

Utter codswallop. You clearly understand very little of UK history. Manufacturing dropped from 25% to 10% of GDP on her watch. How would Trumpites view that?

Churchill was a Great War leader. Not so great PM IMHO

Thatcher gave away Hong Kong when the UK could have legally hung onto it because, by treaty, HK was ceded to the UK "in perpetuity".

The treaty was signed by Chinese royalty.

[Asiantravel]

As this simple graphic from The NY Times shows, if Trump simply maintains his current level of support, he’s “almost certain” to secure the nomination:

[boomerangutang]

Ok let's assume Congressmen and women are doing their jobs badly inside the Beltway. I don't say they're doing their jobs well, but I can readily gauge which political party is dragging its feet on legislation. The same party with a spokesman who's mantra is; "delay delay delay."

So, assuming all politicians are screwing up. Do many Americans really think a blowhard like Trump will do a better job? Apparently many do.

Picture the federal government like a very large old house. There are maids and butlers, and sometimes they're doing sloppy jobs, taking too many cig breaks, dropping things on the floor, etc. The residents of the house want better service because they're paying wages for the maids and butlers. About that time, a loud-talking self-enamored man with shiny red hair shows up at the door. He says he wants the job. The residents ask him what his credentials are. The brash man says he's bought and sold apartments. He's never done any butler work, doesn't know a candlestick from a toilet plunger, but claims that he'll be the absolute best head butler the world has ever known. Indeed, he'll be so good at the job, he'll have everyone smiling while singing martial songs all their waking hours. Will the residents hire him? Doubtful, but stay tuned.

[NeverSure]

Republicans aren't voting for anything. They are voting against everything. They rejected the insiders' choice - Jeb Bush - out of hand. They rejected the insiders' next choice - Rubio - out of hand.

They are voting against decades of broken promises. They are voting against what appears to be an actual encouragement of illegal immigration and the costs that come with it. They are voting against making China rich while the American middle class suffers. They are voting against the newer trend to do the same with Mexico. They are voting against people insisting they be PC in a culture that has always prized free speech. They are voting against starting wars in God-forsaken places. They are voting against Obamacare which is a mandate that people make the health insurance companies rich out of their own pockets.

Hillary can't convince people that she would fix any of these things. She is part of the establishment that caused all of these problems. She can't run on her record because it sucks. She has a record of being sneaky and dishonest and taking big donations from foreign governments for the Clinton "foundation". She has a record of being pure sleaze. She and Bill have gotten filthy rich sucking at the teats of Wall Street and foreign governments while pretending that they are "for the little guy". What creeps. What awful, ugly creeps.

Now the ingrained corrupt R establishment is showing its true colors by scheming about how it can bump off Trump even if he has by far the most votes and replacing him with someone who didn't even bother to run. What arrogance. Wait for that explosion if they actually do it.

Americans have had enough and if someone doesn't realize it he isn't paying attention.

Cheers.

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Voting for Her Royal Thighness^TM is cutting off your nose to spite your face. She's the embodiment of what's been wrong with this country for decades. She is the establishment of putting America last. She and Bill have gotten rich off the backs of the average American by accepting big fees from foreign governments and Wall Street. They are part of that culture, not our culture. They are the poster children of sleaze and phony.

Cheers.

[arjunadawn]

Republicans aren't voting for anything. They are voting against everything. They rejected the insiders' choice - Jeb Bush - out of hand. They rejected the insiders' next choice - Rubio - out of hand.

They are voting against decades of broken promises. They are voting against what appears to be an actual encouragement of illegal immigration and the costs that come with it. They are voting against making China rich while the American middle class suffers. They are voting against the newer trend to do the same with Mexico. They are voting against people insisting they be PC in a culture that has always prized free speech. They are voting against starting wars in God-forsaken places. They are voting against Obamacare which is a mandate that people make the health insurance companies rich out of their own pockets.

Hillary can't convince people that she would fix any of these things. She is part of the establishment that caused all of these problems. She can't run on her record because it sucks. She has a record of being sneaky and dishonest and taking big donations from foreign governments for the Clinton "foundation". She has a record of being pure sleaze. She and Bill have gotten filthy rich sucking at the teats of Wall Street and foreign governments while pretending that they are "for the little guy". What creeps. What awful, ugly creeps.

Now the ingrained corrupt R establishment is showing its true colors by scheming about how it can bump off Trump even if he has by far the most votes and replacing him with someone who didn't even bother to run. What arrogance. Wait for that explosion if they actually do it.

Americans have had enough and if someone doesn't realize it he isn't paying attention.

Cheers.

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

[inbangkok]

Republicans aren't voting for anything. They are voting against everything. They rejected the insiders' choice - Jeb Bush - out of hand. They rejected the insiders' next choice - Rubio - out of hand.

They are voting against decades of broken promises. They are voting against what appears to be an actual encouragement of illegal immigration and the costs that come with it. They are voting against making China rich while the American middle class suffers. They are voting against the newer trend to do the same with Mexico. They are voting against people insisting they be PC in a culture that has always prized free speech. They are voting against starting wars in God-forsaken places. They are voting against Obamacare which is a mandate that people make the health insurance companies rich out of their own pockets.

Hillary can't convince people that she would fix any of these things. She is part of the establishment that caused all of these problems. She can't run on her record because it sucks. She has a record of being sneaky and dishonest and taking big donations from foreign governments for the Clinton "foundation". She has a record of being pure sleaze. She and Bill have gotten filthy rich sucking at the teats of Wall Street and foreign governments while pretending that they are "for the little guy". What creeps. What awful, ugly creeps.

Now the ingrained corrupt R establishment is showing its true colors by scheming about how it can bump off Trump even if he has by far the most votes and replacing him with someone who didn't even bother to run. What arrogance. Wait for that explosion if they actually do it.

Americans have had enough and if someone doesn't realize it he isn't paying attention.

Cheers.

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Voting for Her Royal Thighness^TM is cutting off your nose to spite your face. She's the embodiment of what's been wrong with this country for decades. She is the establishment of putting America last. She and Bill have gotten rich off the backs of the average American by accepting big fees from foreign governments and Wall Street. They are part of that culture, not our culture. They are the poster children of sleaze and phony.

Cheers.

Please enlighten us all regarding how Trump represents "our" culture.....

The funny thing is, I don't disagree with anything you are claiming about the Clinton's....... Can't stand her or her sexual predator husband. However, I don't support Trump either because he is also the poster child of a sleazy phony. That is just a fact. Every other word out of his mouth is a lie. That is what being a phony is. However it is truly fascinating to me how someone like you does not see this..... That you have somehow convince yourself that Trump is some type of savior..... Terrifying.....

[Asiantravel]

Barack Obama said during his state of the union address in January, "The United States of America, right now, has the strongest, most durable economy in the world." Politfact (the Republicans worst nightmare) decided to check it out.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/14/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-us-has-strongest-most-durable-ec/

They decided that statement was "Mostly True". The money line is "many experts agreed that if you had to choose one country for the title of "strongest, most durable economy in the world," it would be the United States."

I wrote this in response to NeverSure's assertion that "the current leadership has left the US in a shambles." That's bullshit. This is a common tactic of the Republicans to say that the country is in "shambles" and pair that nonsense with some form of "we're the only ones that can save it." You see that tactic over and over again.

The Republicans tell themselves this and then search for proof on a daily basis. Meanwhile, they accomplish nothing and no plans to fix anything except to reduce taxes for their 1% benefactors. And take away the rights of women. And gin up the next war. Delay, delay, delay. Is the Republican mantra. That is not governance. That's just DO NOTHING. That not how you run a country.

The Republican slow motion trainwreck continues while the Ministry of Propaganda (Fox News) spewing hatred, which is inevitably repeated here on TV.

Smell the desperation? Go Trump!

" the strongest, most durable economy in the world."

take Caterpillar for example one of America's biggest companies as an indicator of economic conditions as opposed to Obama's unicorns.

CAT has not only not had a positive monthly increase in retail sales in a record 39 months, or more than double the length of the Financial Crisis' 19 months and the longest in history, but the February drop was the biggest one month decline in 5 years!

This data would explain why over the past month first the BOJ, then the PBOC, then the ECB and finally the Fed all surprised with not only more dovishness but much more outright easing as central banks panic to halt what at least according to this one indicator confirms the global economy has not been worse in nearly half a decade.

[NeverSure]

The same party with a spokesman who's mantra is; "delay delay delay."

It's time to knock off that phony line. The American people put the Republicans in charge of the Senate and "Mr. Executive Orders" Obama in charge of the White House. Of course the Senate is going to do it's best to stop Obama's bullshit. Did you expect them to run headlong off Obama's cliff as he doubled the national debt in just 7 years?

If the Dems had the Senate and the Repubs had the WH you'd see the opposite - foot dragging from the Dems. That's a big part of the checks and balances of the government.

I get so tired of hearing that uneducated comment...

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

Hillary can't stop Trump. This is just one reason.

"Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton has to worry about a steep drop-off of the black vote that could imperil her chances of winning the White House in November, an analysis has found.

The number of African-Americans who voted in Tuesday’s primaries plummeted by an estimated 40 percent in Ohio, 38 percent in Florida and 34 percent in North Carolina compared with the 2008 Democratic primary when Barack Obama was on the ballot, reported the advocacy group Black Votes Matter.

Record numbers of African-American voters flocked to the polls to elect and re-elect America’s first black president."

More - NY Post

Hillary is simply a bad candidate with zero personality to draw people to the polls. She is the anointed with the big Wall Street money and the superdelegates but even a nobody like Obama beat her the first time and another nobody named Sanders has had far more success than he would against a good Dem candidate.

Wait until Hillary has to face the Trump Machine that is pulling record numbers of voters including a lot of middle class Democrats.

Cheers.

[inbangkok]

Republicans aren't voting for anything. They are voting against everything. They rejected the insiders' choice - Jeb Bush - out of hand. They rejected the insiders' next choice - Rubio - out of hand.

They are voting against decades of broken promises. They are voting against what appears to be an actual encouragement of illegal immigration and the costs that come with it. They are voting against making China rich while the American middle class suffers. They are voting against the newer trend to do the same with Mexico. They are voting against people insisting they be PC in a culture that has always prized free speech. They are voting against starting wars in God-forsaken places. They are voting against Obamacare which is a mandate that people make the health insurance companies rich out of their own pockets.

Hillary can't convince people that she would fix any of these things. She is part of the establishment that caused all of these problems. She can't run on her record because it sucks. She has a record of being sneaky and dishonest and taking big donations from foreign governments for the Clinton "foundation". She has a record of being pure sleaze. She and Bill have gotten filthy rich sucking at the teats of Wall Street and foreign governments while pretending that they are "for the little guy". What creeps. What awful, ugly creeps.

Now the ingrained corrupt R establishment is showing its true colors by scheming about how it can bump off Trump even if he has by far the most votes and replacing him with someone who didn't even bother to run. What arrogance. Wait for that explosion if they actually do it.

Americans have had enough and if someone doesn't realize it he isn't paying attention.

Cheers.

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

[NeverSure]

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

[inbangkok]

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

It is not an allegation! Here is the video of him saying it! Do you know how to use Google or Youtube? And by the way....if he was really that concrned with outsourcing jobs, why are all of his products and clothing lines made in China? His "Make America Great Again" hats are even made in China! And why has he used immigrant labor in America rather than hiring US citizens? Do you need a video link to this stuff as well? This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem blissfully unaware of the massive divide between what he says.....and what he actually does.

[boomerangutang]

Hillary can't stop Trump. This is just one reason.

"Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton has to worry about a steep drop-off of the black vote that could imperil her chances of winning the White House in November, an analysis has found.

The number of African-Americans who voted in Tuesday’s primaries plummeted by an estimated 40 percent in Ohio, 38 percent in Florida and 34 percent in North Carolina compared with the 2008 Democratic primary when Barack Obama was on the ballot, reported the advocacy group Black Votes Matter.

Record numbers of African-American voters flocked to the polls to elect and re-elect America’s first black president."

More - NY Post

Hillary is simply a bad candidate with zero personality to draw people to the polls. She is the anointed with the big Wall Street money and the superdelegates but even a nobody like Obama beat her the first time and another nobody named Sanders has had far more success than he would against a good Dem candidate.

Wait until Hillary has to face the Trump Machine that is pulling record numbers of voters including a lot of middle class Democrats.

Cheers.

Black voters and voters of any color who are ordinarily lazy about voting, will likely get off their fat butts and vote in November. Blacks don't vote as a block, but a lot more of them like Hillary than like Trump. Same for the ordinarily laggards. Primary voting trends aren't much indication. Similarly, for non-presidential year voting: it's more often the middle class and well-off voters who will make the effort to vote. That's why those years are often good for Republicans. However, this year is presidential and hotly contested, so a lot or ordinarily lazy folks will vote, and most of them will vote democratic. Hillary takes the cake, and gets to redecorate the W.House again.

Trump's fan numbers have grown in past months, but won't grow noticeably from here on out. He's been getting about 40% of the Republican vote, which will translate to about 20% to 25% of the general vote. I've been surprised at how his fans don't seem to mind he's a habitual liar and an all-around crude and somewhat racist person.

[NeverSure]

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

Do you know how to use Google or Youtube?

It's not my job to "use Google" when YOU make allegations. It's up to YOU to prove your allegations. Because you didn't, I'm not reading your shit until you provide quotes and links the next time you claim something as fact.

Cheers.

[NovaBlue05]

Hillary can't stop Trump. This is just one reason.

"Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton has to worry about a steep drop-off of the black vote that could imperil her chances of winning the White House in November, an analysis has found.

The number of African-Americans who voted in Tuesday’s primaries plummeted by an estimated 40 percent in Ohio, 38 percent in Florida and 34 percent in North Carolina compared with the 2008 Democratic primary when Barack Obama was on the ballot, reported the advocacy group Black Votes Matter.

Record numbers of African-American voters flocked to the polls to elect and re-elect America’s first black president."

More - NY Post

Hillary is simply a bad candidate with zero personality to draw people to the polls. She is the anointed with the big Wall Street money and the superdelegates but even a nobody like Obama beat her the first time and another nobody named Sanders has had far more success than he would against a good Dem candidate.

Wait until Hillary has to face the Trump Machine that is pulling record numbers of voters including a lot of middle class Democrats.

Cheers.

Black voters and voters of any color who are ordinarily lazy about voting, will likely get off their fat butts and vote in November. Blacks don't vote as a block, but a lot more of them like Hillary than like Trump. Same for the ordinarily laggards. Primary voting trends aren't much indication. Similarly, for non-presidential year voting: it's more often the middle class and well-off voters who will make the effort to vote. That's why those years are often good for Republicans. However, this year is presidential and hotly contested, so a lot or ordinarily lazy folks will vote, and most of them will vote democratic. Hillary takes the cake, and gets to redecorate the W.House again.

Trump's fan numbers have grown in past months, but won't grow noticeably from here on out. He's been getting about 40% of the Republican vote, which will translate to about 20% to 25% of the general vote. I've been surprised at how his fans don't seem to mind he's a habitual liar and an all-around crude and somewhat racist person.

Blacks vote about 80% plus for the most mainstream, recognized Democrat candidate. That's as close to a block as you can get. The challenge has always been getting them to the polls when you don't have an Obama on the ballot. Bill, in his day could inspire a higher black turnout in a general but Hillary?....forget about it. Similarly though, the 18-25's have traditionally been apathetic as well. Bernie could get them out but he won't be on the general ballot.

[inbangkok]

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

Do you know how to use Google or Youtube?

It's not my job to "use Google" when YOU make allegations. It's up to YOU to prove your allegations. Because you didn't, I'm not reading your shit until you provide quotes and links the next time you claim something as fact.

Cheers.

You did see the video link I provided, right? How else can I prove something besides giving you video evidence of the man saying it?

[iReason]

At Post #261

Say's the man born with a silver spoon in his <deleted>.

And starting out with daddy's handout.

Say's the man who exports 1000's of jobs to Mexican, Chinese and Bangladesh sweatshops.

"Donald Trump blasts companies like Ford and Apple for manufacturing products outside the United States."

"But Trump does the same thing. Many of his products are made outside the United States. Most Donald J. Trump ties are made in China."

"Some Donald J. Trump suits are also made in China."

"Donald J. Trump signature men's dress shirts are made in China, Bangladesh or "imported," meaning they were made abroad.

"And it's not just Donald's products. Harvard professor and trade expert Robert Lawrence analyzed over 800 items in the Ivanka Trump fashion line.

There are shoes, dresses, purses and scarves. All are "imported."

Right. "Imported"

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/08/news/economy/donald-trump-trade/index.html?iid=obnetwork

A flim-flam man. And a self-centered low life.

[JDGRUEN]

So now it's about bone spurs, eh? . . . .

Trump has been caught in sooooo many lies, but you want to talk about his fictitious bone spurs? Ok. He got deferments from going to the VN war FIVE TIMES. He claimed he had a bone spurs ON ONE of his feet. Yet, when asked years later which foot, HE DIDN'T KNOW. Later still (after seeing it was another proof of Trump's lying propensity) Trump's handlers said the bone spurs were on both feet - so they're adding a lie on top of a lie. Note: While dodging going to fight for his country, he was actively playing 3 sports: baseball, squash and tennis. Not the type of running around you'd would expect a man with a bone spur to partake in. He was also going to night clubs every night, while John McCain was rotting in a VN prison. That wouldn't be an issue, except when Trump said McCain wasn't an American war hero.

What? ....as punishment as some weird Calvinistic reversal from having a decent, articulate, gentlemanly prez. Among other things, Obama didn't start any wars and also was not smeared by any malfeasance. Please name one Republican president since Eisenhower - about whom you can say the same. Ok maybe Ford, but only because he just played golf and not much else for his short term. Trump would have a mini- or major screw up every day, like he's having now, during the campaign.

Lol, thatcher was the best president you ever had after churchill.

Utter codswallop. You clearly understand very little of UK history. Manufacturing dropped from 25% to 10% of GDP on her watch. How would Trumpites view that?

Churchill was a Great War leader. Not so great PM IMHO

Thatcher gave away Hong Kong when the UK could have legally hung onto it because, by treaty, HK was ceded to the UK "in perpetuity".

The treaty was signed by Chinese royalty.

OFF TOPIC

[NeverSure]

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

It is not an allegation! Here is the video of him saying it! Do you know how to use Google or Youtube? And by the way....if he was really that concrned with outsourcing jobs, why are all of his products and clothing lines made in China? His "Make America Great Again" hats are even made in China! And why has he used immigrant labor in America rather than hiring US citizens? Do you need a video link to this stuff as well? This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem blissfully unaware of the massive divide between what he says.....and what he actually does.

The vid is out of context and you're lying about Trump's promotional clothing being made in China. LINK

I'm not reading your shit anymore because of your lies and/or out of context statements.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Cheers.

[KarenBravo]

OK, so, he got the hat wrong. What about all the rest?

Can you provide links refuting it?

Good idea putting him on the ignore list, he was eating your lunch.

[inbangkok]

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Please give links and examples for allegations. I don't buy any of what you're saying.

Trump has been bemoaning the plight of the middle class worker due to outsourced jobs and illegal immigrants competing for jobs.

I'm not a big Trump fan. I am anti, anti, anti establishment which means everything else that is available except a socialist which I could never support.

Cheers.

It is not an allegation! Here is the video of him saying it! Do you know how to use Google or Youtube? And by the way....if he was really that concrned with outsourcing jobs, why are all of his products and clothing lines made in China? His "Make America Great Again" hats are even made in China! And why has he used immigrant labor in America rather than hiring US citizens? Do you need a video link to this stuff as well? This is why I can't take you seriously. You seem blissfully unaware of the massive divide between what he says.....and what he actually does.

The vid is out of context and you're lying about Trump's promotional clothing being made in China. LINK

I'm not reading your shit anymore because of your lies.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Cheers.

LOL...Classic! The video of the man's own, un-interrupted words are "out of context". You really are a special one......lol

And regardless of whether Snopes claims his hats are made in China, many other reputable sources have. But ok, I will back down on that one. His "Trump" clothing line however is indeed made in China. He is also on video acknowledging such and defending it. However, I won't bother with the link because you will simply claim it is "out of context".

[inbangkok]

OK, so, he got the hat wrong. What about all the rest?

Can you provide links refuting it?

Good idea putting him on the ignore list, he was eating your lunch.

Yes, I am man enough to back down on that. I have seen many other links from reputable sources suggesting otherwise.....but again, I am man enough to back down because I could be wrong. Too bad other people cannot do the same when provided with video evidence.

[NeverSure]

OK, so, he got the hat wrong. What about all the rest?

Can you provide links refuting it?

Good idea putting him on the ignore list, he was eating your lunch.

He was eating no one's lunch. The link I provided tells about the rest of his promotional clothing, proudly made in the US by American workers.

If he's going to make statements that are proudly but stupidly false with no links (which would larn him some things) I'm not going to read him.

Now, I just ate your lunch for you not reading my link.

Cheers.

[iReason]

David Letterman busting Trump on his apparel made in China and Bangladesh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov2S-mSzFyo

P.S. See Post #266

[arjunadawn]

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Neversure post removed for response room:

Your question, how did I "come to the conclusion that Trump" is the lesser of two evils is actually a brilliant question, IMO. I am unsure I am smart enough to answer it (really). While I always insist the emotive should be checked or controlled there happens to be a degree of emotion in my statement, or intuition. One can argue which side of politics they are on, or what is right/wrong, all day long. But people generally cannot argue that apples are oranges or up is down. HRC, Obama, Sanders, Pelosi, Reid, RHINOs, "establishment" elites, ad naseum have effectively guided this government for a very long time. The fact that this is unassailable is the very reason Trump/Sanders have disproportionate voice.

It is roughly the same length of time that center democrats and conservative right note the grounds shifting left in their parties. The center for both has dramatically shifted to the left since the 60s. The center US has shifted left and the progressive agenda owns it- true! The left embraces this, as evidenced by "Progressive" and "liberal" no longer being the ugly word they were a generation ago. In fact the left defines themselves by this now. The right still refuses to acknowledge their middle ground has shifted, or worse, but more likely, refuse to admit it.

But to your question, the left acknowledges and embraces their left shift reality because of their calculation that middle America, and new arrivals substantially support what they are doing- giving away the store, indebting posterity (as a US white majority nation, it is reasoned, it is a white posterity that is indebted by the Progressive Agenda. This is key undefined angst in the election). The left beliefs they can now openly declare they are "progressive/socialist" based on the fact that America has been effectively run as a leftist/socialist machine for a long time. Irrespective of the face of Bush a & Family, the substantial direction of American domestic policy has been social-like/ist. It is a fact. The Great Society has extended into every social space. A couple of foreign policy steps right, three socialist domestic steps left, 1 right, 2 left, etc. America is being engineered to a left shift.

This is why I see Trump as the lesser of two evils. He may be many things, but he cannot be indicted for the future. Those currently offered as opponents of Trump can easily be indicted for the future by looking to the past- it is their beliefs, their planks, their agendas that have created nearly all of America's current problems. It makes no difference to me that Trump made billions within the confines of that system. The parameters of the 'game' were what they are. Having existed within it and failed or existed within it and succeeded does not make a person more or less accountable- we were all products of the previous laws and agendas of this nation. Not having succeeded as Trump did does not grant a person a more valid rebuke of Trump. Trump's money means nothing to me. I loath victims.

[inbangkok]

This is the most accurate snapshot yet of what motivates people toward Trump.

America is voting against... not for...

This may indeed be true... However..... It is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

This exchange right here is exactly why Trump has traction (and Sanders). People are constantly invited to support the lesser of two evils (I am working loosely with your post). I think its pretty clear there are some concerns about a Trump presidency but people on the left (see Bernie) and the right (see Trump) are sick and tired of being forced to compromise on degrees of bad, or IMO, degrees of socialism/globalism. People are supporting Trump less than they are objecting to the status quo. As a token of further rightness of their choice the Republican Party every day clarifies the issue for everyone. [They] were right all along- Republicans (RHINOs) are really no different from the other party. Its constantly false alternatives.

"Cutting of your nose to spite your face..." may be a valid outcome. You may be correct, but people are sick of being ethically compromised by false options.

I actually understand everything you are saying and appreciate such a reasoned response. Some others on this thread have really shown how unhinged they truly are. And I agree, that we end up for two choices and we generally have to choose the lesser of two evils.

But, here is what I don't understand....how did you come to the conclusion that Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils? I can list a million examples, but the one that really sticks out is that he has claimed, "American wages are too high". How can you reconcile voting for a billionaire who says this about other peoples (working class) wages in America?

And do you not view Trump as a habitual liar (on a dangerous level)? It is hard to get an answer to something like this as well because as you can see throughout this thread.....when a questioned like this is put forth.....it is simply ignored and re-directed with something regarding Clinton (who is also a habitual liar).

Neversure post removed for response room:

Your question, how did I "come to the conclusion that Trump" is the lesser of two evils is actually a brilliant question, IMO. I am unsure I am smart enough to answer it (really). While I always insist the emotive should be checked or controlled there happens to be a degree of emotion in my statement, or intuition. One can argue which side of politics they are on, or what is right/wrong, all day long. But people generally cannot argue that apples are oranges or up is down. HRC, Obama, Sanders, Pelosi, Reid, RHINOs, "establishment" elites, ad naseum have effectively guided this government for a very long time. The fact that this is unassailable is the very reason Trump/Sanders have disproportionate voice.

It is roughly the same length of time that center democrats and conservative right note the grounds shifting left in their parties. The center for both has dramatically shifted to the left since the 60s. The center US has shifted left and the progressive agenda owns it- true! The left embraces this, as evidenced by "Progressive" and "liberal" no longer being the ugly word they were a generation ago. In fact the left defines themselves by this now. The right still refuses to acknowledge their middle ground has shifted, or worse, but more likely, refuse to admit it.

But to your question, the left acknowledges and embraces their left shift reality because of their calculation that middle America, and new arrivals substantially support what they are doing- giving away the store, indebting posterity (as a US white majority nation, it is reasoned, it is a white posterity that is indebted by the Progressive Agenda. This is key undefined angst in the election). The left beliefs they can now openly declare they are "progressive/socialist" based on the fact that America has been effectively run as a leftist/socialist machine for a long time. Irrespective of the face of Bush a & Family, the substantial direction of American domestic policy has been social-like/ist. It is a fact. The Great Society has extended into every social space. A couple of foreign policy steps right, three socialist domestic steps left, 1 right, 2 left, etc. America is being engineered to a left shift.

This is why I see Trump as the lesser of two evils. He may be many things, but he cannot be indicted for the future. Those currently offered as opponents of Trump can easily be indicted for the future by looking to the past- it is their beliefs, their planks, their agendas that have created nearly all of America's current problems. It makes no difference to me that Trump made billions within the confines of that system. The parameters of the 'game' were what they are. Having existed within it and failed or existed within it and succeeded does not make a person more or less accountable- we were all products of the previous laws and agendas of this nation. Not having succeeded as Trump did does not grant a person a more valid rebuke of Trump. Trump's money means nothing to me. I loath victims.

Interesting, and very measured response again. While I definitely disagree with many things you stated, it is quite clear that you have some very specific (and legitimate) reasons for supporting Trump over any of the other candidates.

And on an off note.... I am not concerned about Trumps net worth either.... I was simply attempting to juxtapose it with his comment on American wages.

[iReason]

^^^

I am concerned about the bloviator Trump's, net worth.

When it is revealed, it will further expose what a vain liar he is.

Not to mention, a colossal hypocrite.

All his dubious business dealings will be front page in due course.

I've stated before, Trump is no match for the machine. It's only beginning.

I can't wait for the day when he whimpers away with his tail between his legs.

Chopped off at the knees and far out of his depth.

He is a major embarrassment to America.

[Jingthing]

He bases his inflated wealth based on an inflated valuation of his brand name. Trump.

I understand the impulse to reject the status quo. I don't understand thinking the place to go for that is a psychopathic demagogic con man.

[inbangkok]

^^^

I am concerned about the bloviator Trump's, net worth.

When it is revealed, it will further expose what a vain liar he is.

Not to mention, a colossal hypocrite.

All his dubious business dealings will be front page in due course.

I've stated before, Trump is no match for the machine. It's only beginning.

I can't wait for the day when he whimpers away with his tail between his legs.

Chopped off at the knees and far out of his depth.

He is a major embarrassment to America.

He bases his inflated wealth based on an inflated valuation of his brand name. Trump.

Agreed. Unlike Romney who didn't release more than 2 years of tax returns because they would have shown he is worth far more than the 100-150 million he claimed to be worth...... Trump is worth nowhere near what he claims. He loves showing off and bragging so much that if he was really worth 8 billion or whatever he claims, he would be the first to prove it.

I am honestly not well versed enough on his business dealing to claim if any of it is shady.... But let's just say I would not be surprised considering what a scumbag he is.