Reincarnation belief and thai buddhists

[lovelomsak]

If I understand buddists properly,they believe in reincarnation.

So I get really confused with how they live now if they know they are coming back after death.

They appear to support corruption which will make their reincarnated life difficult when they return.

They pollute with regard to their environment. Meaning they will come back to a very polluted world.

Where money is the end all,What if they come back poor?

It appears they are more concerned with the moment than anything else.

You would think if they knew they were coming back,they would strive to make the world cleaner,safer and better place all round. More green so to speak.

Does it not make sense to want to come back to a clean healthy environment rather than a polluted corrupt,world desimated by greed.

It appears to me they donot understand their own religion very well when put in practice.

For me if I believed in reincaraton I would strive to educate every one from my family outward about the need to come back to a healthy world and environment.and live accordingly.

Just baffles me why people who think they will return do nothing to make a better future for themselves. When they return.

What are others thought on this?

.I think too much.

[thequietman]

The key is not to come back.

So, when they are a little older and cramming for their finals, that's when the Buddhism kicks in.

Lots of time spent in the temple, food for the monks, money for the monks, becoming a monk etc. etc

If that doesn't work then when they do die, their families have a big party 3 months after with the biggest speakers they could find. This almost guarantees straight to Budda and no coming back. Sorted. Oh ye of little faith.

“The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, nor to worry about the future, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly and have big speakers”

Here endith the lesson.

[metisdead]

Moving to the Buddhism forum.

[kannot]

Maybe they really believe it to be the fantasy it is

[TuskegeeBen]

Have you seen the more recent motion picture rendition "The_Day_The_Earth_Stood_Still"?

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

Now, re: the reincarnation question! Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet? Again, all things, of current human events, considered. Perhaps, in another 5,000 years, assuming the human species finally "grows-up", and then manages not to destroy what remains of this planet's fragile eco-system,................then maybe.

Otherwise, thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer to maintain considerable distance from the human species, and take my chances by moving progressively along, to a new, and totally different lifeform, and a far more consciously productive civilization of living beings, assuming that such a civilization actually exists, within the Cosmos.

[AZBill]

Why do you think there are so many poor, unfortunate and misguided Thais? They are the continued result of their own bad karma carrying over from life to life. Takes many lifetimes to break free of samsara!

[Blackheart]

You would think Christians who are striving to go to heaven as great as it is would do more to get there.

[camerata]

In the Theravada Buddhism of Thailand, you can be reborn into any one of 31 planes of existence, not only the human realm. Thais tend to focus on not falling into an animal realm, hungry ghost realm or hell realm by giving alms to monks, as specified in the scriptures. Giving alms is a relatively easy way to make merit. Also, the next human life can seem a very long way away.

[Enoon]

Have you seen the more recent motion picture rendition "The_Day_The_Earth_Stood_Still"?

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

Now, re: the reincarnation question! Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet? Again, all things, of current human events, considered. Perhaps, in another 5,000 years, assuming the human species finally "grows-up", and then manages not to destroy what remains of this planet's fragile eco-system,................then maybe.

Otherwise, thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer to maintain considerable distance from the human species, and take my chances by moving progressively along, to a new, and totally different lifeform, and a far more consciously productive civilization of living beings, assuming that such a civilization actually exists, within the Cosmos.

"Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate"

They don't.

I think you will find that, in Buddhism, reincarnation is automatic and that the highest "achievement" one can attain is to avoid reincarnation as reincarnation means returning to the world (or some other "place") of suffering.

However, because most can't do what is necessary to avoid reincarnation they do "things" in their current existence to try to ensure that the next place is, at least, no worse.

Speak to a "proper" Buddhist or do some more reading to find out if what I have written is correct as:

"Half-knowledge is worse than ignorance" Thomas B Macaulay

[PlastikbinLina]

OMG. Just imagine returning in a different life form e.g. an animal. I couldn't stand greeting my friends and strangers by sniffing their bums.

[geronimo]

I think your last sentence is the most suitable.

There are many Thais who are kind and good with everyone/thing for that very reason, and of course there are those who are not. It's a melting pot.

[VincentRJ]

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

I imagine that most religions arise and develop as a result of a certain awareness of this flaw in the design of Homo Sapiens. The central message of the major religions is that there is a better way to live than by pure animal behaviour.

However, if one accepts that in reality we are driven by animal instincts of survival, of the individual, the family, the tribe, the nation, against all competing forces, then it's understandable that many people, perhaps most people, who subscribe to a particular religion, are not able to adhere to the highest principles of that religion. The animal instincts usually dominate when push comes to shove, and when the opportunity of gaining wealth and power over others is presented.

The other issue of "Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet?" has been addressed quite well by Enoon in post #11.

[TuskegeeBen]

Have you seen the more recent motion picture rendition "The_Day_The_Earth_Stood_Still"?

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

Now, re: the reincarnation question! Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet? Again, all things, of current human events, considered. Perhaps, in another 5,000 years, assuming the human species finally "grows-up", and then manages not to destroy what remains of this planet's fragile eco-system,................then maybe.

Otherwise, thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer to maintain considerable distance from the human species, and take my chances by moving progressively along, to a new, and totally different lifeform, and a far more consciously productive civilization of living beings, assuming that such a civilization actually exists, within the Cosmos.

"Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate"

They don't.

I think you will find that, in Buddhism, reincarnation is automatic and that the highest "achievement" one can attain is to avoid reincarnation as reincarnation means returning to the world (or some other "place") of suffering.

However, because most can't do what is necessary to avoid reincarnation they do "things" in their current existence to try to ensure that the next place is, at least, no worse.

Speak to a "proper" Buddhist or do some more reading to find out if what I have written is correct as:

"Half-knowledge is worse than ignorance" Thomas B Macaulay

I accept your subtle insult as being an expected par for the course reply, especially when coming from the average genre of posters to the TVF. Obviously sir, your are definitely no exception to that average, arrogant Islander's point of view. Thomas Jefferson truly hit the nail squarely on the head, back in 1776.

Now, since you, are apparently better educated than myself, on the current topic, then perhaps you would be generous enough to put me in contact with that "proper" Buddhist, that you obviously are so well-acquainted with, eh?

[flame deleted, member warned]

[TuskegeeBen]

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

I imagine that most religions arise and develop as a result of a certain awareness of this flaw in the design of Homo Sapiens. The central message of the major religions is that there is a better way to live than by pure animal behaviour.

However, if one accepts that in reality we are driven by animal instincts of survival, of the individual, the family, the tribe, the nation, against all competing forces, then it's understandable that many people, perhaps most people, who subscribe to a particular religion, are not able to adhere to the highest principles of that religion. The animal instincts usually dominate when push comes to shove, and when the opportunity of gaining wealth and power over others is presented.

The other issue of "Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet?" has been addressed quite well by Enoon in post #11.

Thank you, for your considered opinion. As you probably know, no one, on this planet at least, knows-it-all. I consider myself as fortunate in life, to never needing to resort to playing "one-upmanship", self-aggrandisement games, on any academic debate platform. So, let us see, if your obvious colleague (post#11) has the wherewithal to actually substantiate his own words of wisdom, spewed from his keyboard mouth. That forthcoming phenomenon, will be a most welcomed, and interesting first, for a TVF change,

[TuskegeeBen]

Regardless of the reincarnation "belief" factors, how could any intelligent, sentient human being begin to reasonably fathom the notion of a Buddhism, that could possibly regard another human being, as an "Alien"? That notional belief, alone, nullifies entire "faith" platform, as being akin to the Muslim notion of the "Infidels", or the Jewish notion of the "Goyim".

I reiterate. All_Things_Considered. Why would any intelligent human being desire to reincarnate (in any lifeform) to this planet, with this current human civilization prevailing? Duh!

[VincentRJ]

Regardless of the reincarnation "belief" factors, how could any intelligent, sentient human being begin to reasonably fathom the notion of a Buddhism, that could possibly regard another human being, as an "Alien"? That notional belief, alone, nullifies entire "faith" platform, as being akin to the Muslim notion of the "Infidels", or the Jewish notion of the "Goyim".

I reiterate. All_Things_Considered. Why would any intelligent human being desire to reincarnate (in any lifeform) to this planet, with this current human civilization prevailing? Duh!

Sounds to me that the Buddhist 'path' is ideally suited to your circumstances and experiences. I imagine the story of Siddhartha Gautama's experiences 2,500 years ago, which motivated him to embark upon the traditional ascetic path, should resonate with you.

Apparently, Gautama had a very protective and cosseted upbringing within the precincts of his father's palace. When he later saw what life was like outside of the palace walls, he was so horrified at the suffering he witnessed among ordinary people, he felt compelled to embark upon the traditional ascetic life of the times, in search of a solution.

I see the concept of 'reincarnation' as no more than an hypothesis which attempts to explain the processes and mysteries of 'life and death' within a framework of 'cause and effect'.

Those who accept the hypothesis as true (ie, have a belief in the reality of reincarnation) understand that unless they are close to achieving full enlightenment in this life, or a state of nirvana, they will inevitably be reborn within that framework of natural processes, whether they want to or not.

What such believers are encouraged to do, in this life, is to behave ethically in accordance with Buddhist principles, so that their next, inevitable reincarnation or rebirth will occur in more favourable circumstances which will give them a better chance of achieving full enlightenment. Got it?

[rockyysdt]

I reiterate. All_Things_Considered. Why would any intelligent human being desire to reincarnate (in any lifeform) to this planet, with this current human civilization prevailing? Duh!

Hello Ben.

No claims to personal experience, but rather imparting what I have learned of the teaching.

I don't think Buddhism ever taught a game plan where the aim was to reincarnate (re birth).

What was actually taught is that re birth occurs of its own accord.

In fact living without "successful" practice (4 noble truths, 8 fold path, 5 precepts) guarantees re birth.

So by not acting, an element of yourself will be re born into a another life filled with suffering and death.

Most religions offer a life after death in either an eternal spirit, soul or perfect body.

Buddhism differs in that Awakening offers escape from being re born.

The Buddhist aim is to escape re birth, which fits into your indication that to be re born into human civilization is undesirable.

The teaching is that the practice of Awareness of what actually is (humans lack awareness at every level) reveals all.

Thus Awakening takes place.

Extinguishing of attachment to Greed, Aversion, & Delusion breaks the cycle of Re Birth.

Further the teaching indicates there is no soul nor spirit, and once the body dies, the mind dies with it.

That which escapes the cycle of Re Birth cannot be described, but it is not a body, a mind, a spirit, nor a soul.

This is beyond our capacity.

NB: A closer look at the 8 Fold Path reveals a practice of becoming aware at ever deeper and more subtle levels.

Think of the person sitting on a park bench, his mind, a cacophony of worries and concerns.

Had this person calmed his mind he would notice the chatter of exotic birds, and the gentle breeze rustling against the leaves of the forest.

These things are at the coarse level.

Quieten your mind further and you will begin to become aware of your self, that which is without thought.

Yes, this is one of our natural states, unconscious state, dream state, conscious state, and conscious state without thought.

Once you achieve this conscious state without thought, practicing for some time reveals that there are ever more finely subtle levels of experience.

Buddhism teaches to quieten the mind and actually experience what is, and has always been.

States which humans have never taken the time to experience.

I have experience such states to beginner levels.

My experience was not driven by introduced thought, as in these states these is no thought.

All I can tell is is that I've been blind to what is for most of my life.

I won't fool you, I am no where near the pinnacle.

Unlike religions which promise eternal life after death and strict rules in following ones ruler/maker, Buddhism actually teaches to avoid doing harm to others and to become aware.

It does not make promises of eternal life and dictate a raft of rules to be adhered to for fear of being banished to eternal death.

Simply it is an offer to become aware of what actually is, nothing more, nor less.

Forget the religiously inclined who have turned the teaching into another religion.

Visit the core of the teaching.

Humans have a knack (greed & delusion) to twist anything.

Perhaps an excuse for others to keep walking.

Pretty neutral offer don't you think.

[TuskegeeBen]

Regardless of the reincarnation "belief" factors, how could any intelligent, sentient human being begin to reasonably fathom the notion of a Buddhism, that could possibly regard another human being, as an "Alien"? That notional belief, alone, nullifies entire "faith" platform, as being akin to the Muslim notion of the "Infidels", or the Jewish notion of the "Goyim".

I reiterate. All_Things_Considered. Why would any intelligent human being desire to reincarnate (in any lifeform) to this planet, with this current human civilization prevailing? Duh!

Sounds to me that the Buddhist 'path' is ideally suited to your circumstances and experiences. I imagine the story of Siddhartha Gautama's experiences 2,500 years ago, which motivated him to embark upon the traditional ascetic path, should resonate with you.

Apparently, Gautama had a very protective and cosseted upbringing within the precincts of his father's palace. When he later saw what life was like outside of the palace walls, he was so horrified at the suffering he witnessed among ordinary people, he felt compelled to embark upon the traditional ascetic life of the times, in search of a solution.

I see the concept of 'reincarnation' as no more than an hypothesis which attempts to explain the processes and mysteries of 'life and death' within a framework of 'cause and effect'.

Those who accept the hypothesis as true (ie, have a belief in the reality of reincarnation) understand that unless they are close to achieving full enlightenment in this life, or a state of nirvana, they will inevitably be reborn within that framework of natural processes, whether they want to or not.

What such believers are encouraged to do, in this life, is to behave ethically in accordance with Buddhist principles, so that their next, inevitable reincarnation or rebirth will occur in more favourable circumstances which will give them a better chance of achieving full enlightenment. Got it?

Got it. Thank you, for sharing your thoughts, Already spent six-months, in the Kathmandu vicinity, researching Siddharta's life. Interesting revelation results, especially regarding the roots of Christianity.

Btw, have you read any published works by either Ernst Mayr or Noam Chomsky? Interesting reading, to say the least. Best regards, and cheers

[TuskegeeBen]

I reiterate. All_Things_Considered. Why would any intelligent human being desire to reincarnate (in any lifeform) to this planet, with this current human civilization prevailing? Duh!

Hello Ben.

No claims to personal experience, but rather imparting what I have learned of the teaching.

I don't think Buddhism ever taught a game plan where the aim was to reincarnate (re birth).

What was actually taught is that re birth occurs of its own accord.

In fact living without "successful" practice (4 noble truths, 8 fold path, 5 precepts) guarantees re birth.

So by not acting, an element of yourself will be re born into a another life filled with suffering and death.

Most religions offer a life after death in either an eternal spirit, soul or perfect body.

Buddhism differs in that Awakening offers escape from being re born.

The Buddhist aim is to escape re birth, which fits into your indication that to be re born into human civilization is undesirable.

The teaching is that the practice of Awareness of what actually is (humans lack awareness at every level) reveals all.

Thus Awakening takes place.

Extinguishing of attachment to Greed, Aversion, & Delusion breaks the cycle of Re Birth.

Further the teaching indicates there is no soul nor spirit, and once the body dies, the mind dies with it.

That which escapes the cycle of Re Birth cannot be described, but it is not a body, a mind, a spirit, nor a soul.

This is beyond our capacity.

NB: A closer look at the 8 Fold Path reveals a practice of becoming aware at ever deeper and more subtle levels.

Think of the person sitting on a park bench, his mind, a cacophony of worries and concerns.

Had this person calmed his mind he would notice the chatter of exotic birds, and the gentle breeze rustling against the leaves of the forest.

These things are at the coarse level.

Quieten your mind further and you will begin to become aware of your self, that which is without thought.

Yes, this is one of our natural states, unconscious state, dream state, conscious state, and conscious state without thought.

Once you achieve this conscious state without thought, practicing for some time reveals that there are ever more finely subtle levels of experience.

Buddhism teaches to quieten the mind and actually experience what is, and has always been.

States which humans have never taken the time to experience.

I have experience such states to beginner levels.

My experience was not driven by introduced thought, as in these states these is no thought.

All I can tell is is that I've been blind to what is for most of my life.

I won't fool you, I am no where near the pinnacle.

Unlike religions which promise eternal life after death and strict rules in following ones ruler/maker, Buddhism actually teaches to avoid doing harm to others and to become aware.

It does not make promises of eternal life and dictate a raft of rules to be adhered to for fear of being banished to eternal death.

Simply it is an offer to become aware of what actually is, nothing more, nor less.

Forget the religiously inclined who have turned the teaching into another religion.

Visit the core of the teaching.

Humans have a knack (greed & delusion) to twist anything.

Perhaps an excuse for others to keep walking.

Pretty neutral offer don't you think.

Indeed, that is a most neutral offer, and, a very attractive perspective. Unfortunately, I just don't believe in "IF", anymore. Thanks, just the same though, and best regards

[TuskegeeBen]

Why do you think there are so many poor, unfortunate and misguided Thais? They are the continued result of their own bad karma carrying over from life to life. Takes many lifetimes to break free of samsara!

The entire planet is populated with poor, unforunate and misguided people. That is not some unique karmic stigma, peculiar to the Thai people.

[rockyysdt]

Indeed, that is a most neutral offer, and, a very attractive perspective. Unfortunately, I just don't believe in "IF", anymore. Thanks, just the same though, and best regards

I don't understand what you mean by "IF" Ben.

On the subject of "belief", my Mindfulness practice has shown me much about belief.

Beliefs are conditioned states.

Most humans have beliefs.

Beliefs are not always synonymous with facts.

However beliefs control our lives.

Often beliefs inhibit our ability to think/evaluate individual situations, the thinking process going straight to a subconscious belief even if it doesn't fit a situation.

I liken such thought patterns as a jail (gaol) sentence with invisible bars.

We go through life believing we are free men when in reality we a prisoners of our beliefs.

Beliefs which were largely installed in infancy by our carers between the age of birth until six, but mostly between birth and two.

It's tragedy.

We are slaves to others beliefs without realizing it.

Far better to be open minded, a difficult task.

This is why it's better to try to live life observing without attachment, neither believing nor disbelieving but being open.

What is the truth?

Who is correct?

What is our purpose?

What?

The only true answers can come from self experience.

Experience for oneself and then one will know.

Or, one lives a life fixed by ones beliefs, destined to repeat them only with different people, different places and different times, or until ones brain atrophies with old age.

If we look at our lives closely, all we are doing is enacting our individual programmed scripts.

Until awakened, if this is possible, one way of escaping our prisons is through the practice of sharpening ones awareness.

Awareness of body, awareness of breath, awareness of mind, awareness of feelings, and awareness of our interaction with the world. This can be facilitated with acts of Metta, Karuna, & Mudita, a way of focusing away from ego, through compassion for others.

The power of Conditioning and Belief is so great most rarely escape its clutches.

Trauma can lead to change, but even this change eventually succumbs over time.

I no longer wish to be a prisoner.

[VincentRJ]

Very insightful posts, Rocky; and welcome back after your hiatus in posting on the forum.

Part of the difficulty in understanding our conditioning, is the difficulty in remembering events in our life that occurred at an early age. For example, I apparently spent the first 3 years of my life on a farm in Wales whilst my father was fighting in WWII. However, I have no conscious memory of any event that occurred during those first 3 years in Wales. When I was approximately the age of 3, my parents moved to the suburbs in England where I recall having my first memories.

Perhaps I can now deduce that my love of nature, forests, wildlife, and my later interest in natural farming techniques such as Permaculture and Hugelkultur which I experimented with, after my early retirement from office work, are connected to those early, subconscious experiences of life on a small-scale farm in Wales.

On a broad scale, it seems fairly obvious that everything we do and think must be a result of an interaction between our genetic make-up and our conditioning which consists of all the experiences we've been exposed to since the time we were developing in our mother's womb, and all the education we've been exposed to, both formal and informal.

As Rogers and Hammerstein wrote:

You've got to be taught

To hate and fear,

You've got to be taught

From year to year,

It's got to be drummed

In your dear little ear

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid

Of people whose eyes are oddly made,

And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,

You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,

Before you are six or seven or eight,

To hate all the people your relatives hate,

You've got to be carefully taught!

[Enoon]

Have you seen the more recent motion picture rendition "The_Day_The_Earth_Stood_Still"?

After 10,000 years of recorded human behavioral history (this current civilization), the fact that there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the Homo Sapien (people) species, should be abundantly clear by now, to all "thinking" people.

All organized religions (Buddhism included) proselytize the exact same principles, yet the religious teachers do not set the practice example, of what they preach. So, why should the Thai notion of Buddhism be expected to produce better results, all things of the foregoing, considered?

Now, re: the reincarnation question! Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate, immediately again, to the human lifeform, on this planet? Again, all things, of current human events, considered. Perhaps, in another 5,000 years, assuming the human species finally "grows-up", and then manages not to destroy what remains of this planet's fragile eco-system,................then maybe.

Otherwise, thanks, but no thanks. I'd prefer to maintain considerable distance from the human species, and take my chances by moving progressively along, to a new, and totally different lifeform, and a far more consciously productive civilization of living beings, assuming that such a civilization actually exists, within the Cosmos.

"Why would any reasonably intelligent, sentient human being, have the remotest desire to reincarnate"

They don't.

I think you will find that, in Buddhism, reincarnation is automatic and that the highest "achievement" one can attain is to avoid reincarnation as reincarnation means returning to the world (or some other "place") of suffering.

However, because most can't do what is necessary to avoid reincarnation they do "things" in their current existence to try to ensure that the next place is, at least, no worse.

Speak to a "proper" Buddhist or do some more reading to find out if what I have written is correct as:

"Half-knowledge is worse than ignorance" Thomas B Macaulay

I accept your subtle insult as being an expected par for the course reply, especially when coming from the average genre of posters to the TVF. Obviously sir, your are definitely no exception to that average, arrogant Islander's point of view. Thomas Jefferson truly hit the nail squarely on the head, back in 1776.

Now, since you, are apparently better educated than myself, on the current topic, then perhaps you would be generous enough to put me in contact with that "proper" Buddhist, that you obviously are so well-acquainted with, eh?

Hence, unless you're just another pretentious forum blow-hard, then I look forward to receiving your "educational" roadmap, on the PM board. Surprise me, for a change. Cheers,

Dear Ben,

I got a message in my email that a PM had been started but all I found was a "like" so I presumed that the the invite had been withdrawn (perhaps I had not understood what was intended)

I have only just seen the message as, since 1st April, I have been in transit to:

"This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,

This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,

This other Eden, demi-paradise,

This fortress built by Nature for herself

Against infection and the hand of war,

This happy breed of men, this little world,

This precious stone set in the silver sea,

Which serves it in the office of a wall,

Or as a moat defensive to a house,

Against the envy of less happier lands,

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England" Richard II, William Shakespeare.

By "proper" Buddhist I meant someone who lives the life prescribed in the teachings of Buddha or someone who is a learned student and really knows what they are talking about. Certainly not me. I once read what was virtually a truncated "Dummies" guide to Buddhism and also a tiny pocket book of Zen parables, both of which came to me by chance and were unrequested. The rest has been picked up in a random and unstructured way from Wikipedia, ("half-knowledge...etc").

I don't know if you could find someone like that nearby, as many people seem to think they are very few and far between in Thailand. Perhaps someone of a "Forest Temple"?

[AYJAYDEE]

have you ever wondered about why christians misbehave knowing that it threatens their chances of going to heaven?

[rockyysdt]

have you ever wondered about why christians misbehave knowing that it threatens their chances of going to heaven?

Subconscious habits and beliefs.

Very powerful.

Most formed between the ages of birth and six.

Find yourself in a scenario which touches on these and your responses will kick in.

You might hate yourself later or through Delusion you might justify your actions.

We are all prisoners of our underlying beliefs and conditioning.

[AYJAYDEE]

have you ever wondered about why christians misbehave knowing that it threatens their chances of going to heaven?

Subconscious habits and beliefs.

Very powerful.

Most formed between the ages of birth and six.

Find yourself in a scenario which touches on these and your responses will kick in.

You might hate yourself later or through Delusion you might justify your actions.

We are all prisoners of our underlying beliefs and conditioning.

my point was ALL people do what he is singling out Buddhists for doing

[nongai]

Those unfamiliar with Buddhist teachings might take offence to the word ignorance and assume it refers to stupidity which is the modern way it is taken. In the Buddhist sense ignorance means not knowing or having an incorrect understanding of the truth or what is real. In that context we are all ignorant, at least when we are reborn, since it is that ignorance of the workings of rebirth and karma, and of course the 4NT & 8FP, which has caused us to create the karma which led to our rebirth. We now have the exceptionally difficult opportunity, created by being reborn into the human realm, and at a time when the teachings are still able to be found studied and practiced, to get well enough upon the path to freedom from rebirth in a very few remaining lives.

[nausea]

And you really believe this? Mostly, I just accept that when I die, that is it. It's what I do in this life that matters.

[rockyysdt]

And you really believe this? Mostly, I just accept that when I die, that is it. It's what I do in this life that matters.

What you say about this life is sensible.

You can only live in the present.

In terms of what happens when you die, this is speculation either way.

Much better to have an open mind.

[nongai]

Why any need for speculation?

The Buddha laid it all down often in his teachings. Members here like to quote sources like 'Access to Insight', but then in the next breath seem to doubt the truth of the teachings.

There are many teachings about the various types of karma which will take effect as we die and lead us to our next rebirth. Death proximate karma, habitual karma, weighty karma etc.

http://www.buddhanet.net/t_karma.htm