Crackdown On 'Coyote Girls'

[cobra]

Well as long as we're cracking down,

Lets also crack down on coyote ugly girls,

[JimsKnight]

Well, I don't have a problem with a ban on "lude" dancing at religeous festivals. As for being an adult at 18,20 or whatever, well being from the UK I consider it 16, in the US they consider it 21, Thailand seems to consider it 20. Many countries have different opinions, is it fair to bash Thailand for having a younger age than the US?

I think the big concern here seems to be the rising power of the conservative Thais imposing more and more restrictions. It was happening under Thaksin and it seems like little chance of relenting under the new regime. One of the big appeals for me when I first came to Thailand was the tolerance and freedom to do what you wanted as long as you weren't directly affecting other people. Unfortunately that seemed to have ended a long time ago, and the fall of Thaksin doesn't appear to be making any difference, infact, it may well have accelerated.

Here Here, it started back in 2001 and from there onward.

[britmaveric]

Better ban the tele - most of the bad influences come from there.

[sossn]

I totally agre with this crackdown and it should apply to all bars as well in Thailand thai women are very imature even at 25

[sonnyJ]

I totally agre with this crackdown and it should apply to all bars as well in Thailand thai women are very imature even at 25

Immature?

So should it be 35?

////

And Kanchanaburi along the railroad// tracks has so many local beer// gardens with quickie rooms in the back.....

That totaally rhymes man. Cool that is

[Oleg_Rus]

Unfortunately a lot of Thais, especially young Thais, think that all that comes from west is primarly good while they actually are not even familiar with the rules in the west. They would not realize that one sitting on Jesus Christ's head would be offending while they get upset when one sits on Buddha's head.

What I try to illustrate here is that among the quantity of bull shit they get fed with through western TV and movies, they are not able to distinguish what is acceptable and what is not really to be copied and/or imported as even in the west it would be inappropriate.

I see an increasing number of female students wearing skirts getting shorter and shorter so that one would be tempted to ask whether they are on their way to school or to "work". Trying not to let this phenomen escalate appears reasonable and understandable. I think Thailand is very generously offering sexual freedom in given areas.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that half naked chickie's are needed at every spot where some brand or non-brand product is sold or where otherwise people need to be attracted. Thais should realize that they have their own culture and their own values. It is normal that these values and do's and don'ts change (they do in the west), but it's moving too fast and going too far.

What a load of c**p! get real, man - we're here, chicks are here and fresher they are - is just better. I'd GIVE THEM GREEN LIGHT! I want to see them 24/7 every place - 7-11, subway, dept store, banks - every m/f/ where!

[khall64au]

Forgive me if I am busting in on this discussion without doing my 5-pages of TV research - BUT - according to a Bangkok Post story (this past Monday, I do believe) - the Go Go Dancers of Bangkok will be given the opportunity to attend FORMAL ballroom and latin dance classes to train in classic dance for health, artistic & professional certification - thus assisting them in recognition of a more socially-acceptable occupation as well as achieving personal gratification & certified workplace-standards.

Is it not about time (as most girls seem to be from poor backgrounds with few opportunities)!?

Go grrrrrrrrrls, get down!!!!!!!! Go-go Dance Union United....

Snicker as you will (some gentlemens )

[Richard W]

Personally, I think if you're old enough to pay taxes, or die or kill for your country, then you're old enough to do anything the rest of the population can do.

I'm not aware of any minimum age for paying tax.

[bkkandrew]

The last couple of wat festivals I've been to have had these girls. They'd do the bump and grind or dry hump a pole trying to entice the men to part with 10 baht for a dance or whatever. I don't say that there might not be appropriate venues for these activities, but the wat festival is not it. Incidences of rape and gang rape at these fairs has climbed sharply. There is very little oversight save for the local puyai. It really is a very inappropriate activity given the location and occasion.

What evidence do you nhave to support this supposition?

[bkkandrew]

Several persons in this thread have inquired as to whether under 20yo's are children. In fact, they are. By Thai law, one does not reach the age of majority until 20, until which point every decision they make (including dating) is theoretically subject to parental approval.

"Steven"

What are you talking about? Even the age of consent in Thailand is only 15. This includes Male/Female sex, M/M sex, and F/F sex.

This is technically true, but there is an "age of majority" legally which is 20, until which time the parents must also approve of anything that happens to their children for it to be legal (technically).

"Steven"

According to CIA factbook, the age limit for voting for example is 18 and not 20 years.

What the $%£*!?* has the CIA got to do with Thais and life in Thailand? FYI the USA is not the centre of the universe!

Edited October 30, 2006 by bkkandrew

[astral]

Actually according to the Interpol site it is 13.

But hey, what would I know - I just read it in some other thread somewhere else and the link checked out as accurate.

Clearly the Interpol site is out of date.

The age of consent was indeed 13 back in the 80's but was raised to 15 in the mid 90's.

Between 15 and 20 the consent of parents is required, or you will be liable to kidnapping charges.

For other legal matters, such as buying property etc the person must be in their 21st year,

ie over 20

[ratcatcher]

Where it all started.

"Don't just get drunk.Get ugly"

Huh!

[mijan24]

I thought 'Coyote Girls' were at a certain A go-go place in Soi Marine Pattaya ?

"Coyote Girl" style of dancing is not acceptable at or as part of a religious ceremony. This is a very sensible statement.

All the debate about 16, 18, 20 or 21 leaves out the $$ factor - these young girls are lured/attracted into these jobs by the $$ and once in the loop are easily exploited by canny Thai/Farang operators.

Instead of knocking why not offer solutions and if all you can offer are lewd thoughts/ideas YOU are showing why some people are not welcome here in Thailand.

Purely my opinions only at this stage.

[Hublet]

Oh for goodness sake - there is a time and a place for everything and this type of thing should not be held at a Buddhist Temple (Kmer Temples are totally different. PLease do some reading before you make comments you know nothing about). Her Majesty has a point and I agree. It is not the Thai, nor Buddhist, way.

Amongst many other Mijan24 has a point

Instead of knocking why not offer solutions and if all you can offer are lewd thoughts/ideas YOU are showing why some people are not welcome here in Thailand.

It has nothing to do with the legal age. That is a cultural issue and as such it is up to each country to make their own laws and the citizens of that country to abide by those laws. If you don't like it, as a guest in that country, leave. And if all you want is to see is this sort of thing in the streets and at temples, and not discreetly behind closed doors, then you need to get a life and grow up. Think about others for a change and not just yourselves.

People wonder why children are turning out the way they are these days. Look around you, look at what your are showing these children. How are they suppose to learn what is right and what is wrong when they are subjected to witness this sort of tripe. Many very sick people like the age of consent to be the lowest possible - think about that - why???????

[hardy1943]

"Coyote Girl" style of dancing is not acceptable at or as part of a religious ceremony. This is a very sensible statement.

I agree with you on that statement completely.

However was recently invited to a house warming party by a high ranking Police officer,

they had 6 scarcely dress girl dancers as entertainment, some of them did not look to me even 20 years old, was also asked if I wanted to take some home, price 1000 baht.

Also to my surprise had a group of lady boys perform.

Is this common in Thailand?

[Jai Dee]

Education Minister opposes to measure to ban people below 20 to become coyote dancers

The Education Minister, Prof. Dr. Wichit Srisa-arn, disagrees with the measure to restrain people under the age of 20 to become Coyote dancers, while requesting the temples not to stage such explicit shows.

Prof. Dr. Wichit spoke about this measure, saying thorough consideration is required because people have the personal rights to do so. Instead, there should be measure to promote youths to be fully conscious of what is right and what is wrong. He said the main issue does not concern the Coyote dancers, but it deals with the temples that allow such inappropriate show to be performed in their locations. Thus, the abbots and officers of the temples have to bar such display from their sites. He added that if Coyote dances are taking place in certain educational institutions, he will be fully responsible on this matter and implement stringent measures to solve it.

The Education Minister said he does not know whether the Coyote dancers are students or not, and therefore, his ministry could not do anything about it. However, if they are actually students, other students will have to help administer this issue as well.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 31 October 2006

[Bottlerocket]

They say that this is becuase of Western society. However, I can't recall ever passing a church with scantily clad dancing girls outside soliciting men for "lewd" dancing. Our people wouldn't pass a law, the churchgoers would run 'em out. Take responsibility for your lack of responsibility Thailand.

[LaoPo]

In other words....the Ministry of Education does not agree with the Ministry of Culture as said in post #1, or am I wrong ?

LaoPo

"Social Development and Human Security Minister...."

How many ministries are involved in this matter and how many 'Ministries' are there anyway ?

LaoPo

Edited October 31, 2006 by LaoPo

[Jai Dee]

Social Development and Human Security Minister says local administrative organizations should administer coyote dances

Social Development and Human Security Minister Paiboon Wattanasiritham reckons that the local administrative organizations should play an important role in supervising the youths who are involved in the “coyote dances”.

Mr. Paiboon commented on the appropriateness of the “coyote dances” during the Naga Fireballs Festival in the province of Nong Khai, saying this was an example of a social value from a certain group of people. He also said he knew that many provinces were interested in showing “coyote dances” in public places such as the opened market. In order to solve this problem, relevant agencies from all sides need to consider it together, and the local administrative organizations should have a key role in working it.

Mr. Paiboon agrees with the Ministry of Culture’s projected measure to prohibit people below 20 years of age to perform “coyote dances”. He said it is a good move, but academic research needs to be conducted to support such measure. He said people can still be exposed of other wrong values through various means of media such as internet, television, and printed documents.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 31 October 2006

[navajo]

Ban on under-20 girl presenters/dancers urged

BANGKOK: -- The Culture Ministry will push for a new ministerial regulation that will ban students under 20 years of age from working as scantily-clad product presenters and dancers at events.

The Culture and Education ministries will soon meet to discuss on the issuance of the regulation.

"The regulation can be issued under the Children Protection Act and it can take immediate effect," Ladda Tangsupachai, who heads the Culture Ministry's cultural monitoring centre, said Monday.

....

Are 19 year olds children?

[Canadianvisitor]

Well, I believe there should be a way to change the way

in which the migration of young girls turn to selling their services.

It is engrained in the culture it seems. Personally, I have no interest

in all of the services a bargirl has to offer.

I do however like to buy the girls a ladydrink and chat to them.

Not too many really love the work, but it seems to be a career choice

for the girls at a certain age.

If the "crackdown" had some "meat" and maybe a way to get the young girls

some sort of options it would be a true sign of change.

Myself I cannot help to believe that any sort of "crackdown" is just going to

further organise an underground where the situation is far less open to any scrutiny.

I have no suggestions for a resolution to any options for the girls,

but there has got to be some way to have them become more than a sexual commodity.

[udon]

Tried to find Coyote Dancers on YouTube........

Anyone got a video?

[taxexile]

Well, I believe there should be a way to change the way

in which the migration of young girls turn to selling their services.

It is engrained in the culture it seems. Personally, I have no interest

in all of the services a bargirl has to offer.

I do however like to buy the girls a ladydrink and chat to them.

Not too many really love the work, but it seems to be a career choice

for the girls at a certain age.

If the "crackdown" had some "meat" and maybe a way to get the young girls

some sort of options it would be a true sign of change.

Myself I cannot help to believe that any sort of "crackdown" is just going to

further organise an underground where the situation is far less open to any scrutiny.

I have no suggestions for a resolution to any options for the girls,

but there has got to be some way to have them become more than a sexual commodity.

sensible , wise , insightful and eloquent , are four words that do not spring to mind when reading the above.

[thymode91]

...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

?

Its actually quite interesting this is happening because a similar situation is also occuring in Cambodia, a crack down against immoral activities (i.e. wearing a short skirts, adultery, etc..) that our not part of their culture? Funny thing is if these people actually took a look at their cultural history, they would realise it is a part of their culture. I see this as an increasing trend over the world where conservative governments are becoming increasingly more autocratic.

Anyway, anyhow..... That is their country--they can impose such rule if they wish to.

[Spenthouse]

Thailand a centre of Buddism?

sure why not? it is already centre of the universe isn't it?

[BigSnake]

What will they go after next, maybe getting the stray dogs off the street,leaving POOp everywhere. out the poor girls are just trying to make a living.

[mijan24]

"Coyote Girl" style of dancing is not acceptable at or as part of a religious ceremony. This is a very sensible statement.

I agree with you on that statement completely.

However was recently invited to a house warming party by a high ranking Police officer,

they had 6 scarcely dress girl dancers as entertainment, some of them did not look to me even 20 years old, was also asked if I wanted to take some home, price 1000 baht.

Also to my surprise had a group of lady boys perform.

Is this common in Thailand? Yes at house blessings, when young boys go into the the monkhood,etc etc - A time and place for all sorts of entertainment as they say.

Edited October 31, 2006 by mijan24

[animatic]

I agree with ending this at Temple fairs.

Not at all appropriate.

But as usual the responce is overkill.

What do pretty's at car shows have to do

with lewd dancing at temple fairs?

Now the only ones flashing their tits in public

will be katoeys!

Legal since their Thai ID cards say they are MEN.

Edited October 31, 2006 by animatic

[s.pylos]

What will they go after next, maybe getting the stray dogs off the street,leaving POOp everywhere. out the poor girls are just trying to make a living.

maybe a crackdown on monks in Pantip, or in china town buying VCD (sometime porn) or smocking in the wat compound, or eating after noon?

The Shanga does need to clean the air...

[sandy]

[jean-pierre]

First of all I happen to totally agree with the statement, regarding scantily clad dancers, made by Her Majesty. Coyote girl style dancing in the vicinity of a temple is inappropriate according to the Five precepts of Buddhism. I doubt the comments would have been so public if the dancing had taken place at a sports stadium or other suitable venue

THE FIVE PRECEPTS

All religions have some basic rules that define what is good conduct and what kind of conduct should be avoided. In Buddhism, the most important rules are the Five Precepts. These have been passed down from the Buddha himself.

1. No killing---------- Respect for life ( Ask politicians and police involved in slayings of drug dealers two years ago. Ask personnel involved in Tak bai incident))

2. No stealing--------- Respect for others' property (Ask Thaksin and his cronies)

3. No sexual misconduct-------Respect for our pure nature (Ask any Thai woman and man involved in sex industry)

4. No lying ----------Respect for honesty. (Ask any Thai politician)

5. No intoxicants----------Respect for a clear mind. (Ask any Thai citizen who drinks alcohol)

Western culture is always used as a scapegoat by Thais as having a negative and destructive influence on their culture. Really?

They (the culture vultures) seem to react by immediately blaming the decadent west. How about a little self examination?

Was there killing in Siam before westerners came?

Have land grabs, cheating, scamming the poor, acquiring vast wealth and paying no taxes,only been a recent phenomenon?

Have Thais only recently discovered sex and sexy behaviour? Who mostly uses Thai brothels? Farangs ?

Was there prostitution in Siam before western influence?

When did some Thais learn to lie their heads off? Did they import corruption from America or Europe? I don't think so.

Has alcohol use only been allowed since the first western tourists arrived? Ask any rice farmer.

Moderation in all things would be a good start here instead of overreaction to every problem.

Think things out before planning an event and think twice before banning something.

Certainly the intent of the comments made by H.M. The Queen was totally appropriate but the people in the administation need to think wisely before passing ineffective laws.