What Happens if 6 Days Late with Renewing Extension of Time (Retirement)?

[Barefoot]

I am an American citizen who first obtained a non-immigrant "O" visa in 2007 and ever since I have received (in Jomtien) annual extensions of stay based on retirement. This year's extension expires on May 3. For the past couple of years, I have availed myself of the very convenient U.S. Embassy outreach program to Pattaya to obtain my income letter. Unfortunately, this year they visit Pattaya on May 6, three days after my extension expires. Due to medical reasons, it is very discomforting for me to travel to Bangkok and to deal with the whole inconvenience of traffic, time sitting at the embassy, and so on. Thus, it surely would be wonderful if I could instead use the May 6 outreach opportunity to obtain my income letter (I need it because I do not keep much money in this country).

I have always met my deadlines so I am not well educated on options/penalties, particularly in view of the new overstay rules. It seems that there is no grace period for an extension of time based on retirement. Does anyone have any recent (post March 20 overstay rules) information about whether being several days late can be overlooked with a modest overstay fine? Is there any way to "bridge" my extension of time based on retirement for a week (Immigration closed on May 5-6)? And if there was such a way, would I have to start all over again with a new visa and extension of time based on retirement? I really want to avoid having to reapply and jump through all of the hoops.

I am steeling myself for the high probability of having to go up to Bangkok in April for a discomforting day, but if anyone has any alternatives, I would be most pleased to hear it. I have only recently learned that I could have obtained my income letter up to six months in advance, so I should have used the February outreach visit to obtain my letter. Live and learn. Thanks in advance.

[ubonjoe]

Not sure how receptive immigration will be applying for your extension 6 days late. I think you will also find that the 9th of May will be a very busy day since immigration will of only been open 2 days the week before.

The fine will be 3000 baht for the overstay.

I suggest you make the trip to Bangkok for the income affidavit. The wait at the embassy will be short. I have done 8 of them there and I don't recall it ever toking more than half an hour.

You will need to make an appointment to get the income affidavit. See: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/acsappointment.html

You can download the affidavit or fill it out online before going to the embassy that will also save you some time there. See: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/notarial-services.html#income_affidavit

Perhaps you could use some of the 3000 baht you will save from not paying an overstay to hire a car to take you to the embassy to make the trip easier.

[OJAS]

Are you married to a Thai national? If so, you could apply for a 60-day extension of stay for the purposes of visiting her as an interim measure.

Otherwise, I can see no way of avoiding a hellish trip to Bangkok in your case (and I really do empathise with you on this). Were you to let your extension of stay lapse you would probably need to start all over again with a fresh non-O visa for which you would need to steel yourself for a trip to Vientiane or Penang. And they would require to see financial evidence in the form of an Embassy affidavit before issuing you with a single-entry non-O. So no getting away with a prior trip to Bangkok in any event, unfortunately.

Edited March 31, 2016 by OJAS

[Barefoot]

Thanks to both of you for your kind replies. The marriage option is unavailable, so it looks like I will have to travel to Bangkok.

[elviajero]

There doesn't seem much choice but to go to Bangkok for the income affidavit. If you don't renew your extension before May 3rd you will be on overstay which is not a good idea in the current climate. Although there is a good chance they will accept the application a few days late they can charge 500 per day in overstay fines.

It might be worth a phone call/visit to the Jomtien office well ahead of May 3rd. A big maybe, but if you explain the medical situation maybe they will accept an application without the income affidavit and put the application under consideration for 30 days. That would keep you legal and give you time to get the income affidavit. There's probably a small chance they'll play ball but if you don't ask you don't get! Immigration have surprised me several times in a positive way over the years.

[Barefoot]

There doesn't seem much choice but to go to Bangkok for the income affidavit. If you don't renew your extension before May 3rd you will be on overstay which is not a good idea in the current climate. Although there is a good chance they will accept the application a few days late they can charge 500 per day in overstay fines.

It might be worth a phone call/visit to the Jomtien office well ahead of May 3rd. A big maybe, but if you explain the medical situation maybe they will accept an application without the income affidavit and put the application under consideration for 30 days. That would keep you legal and give you time to get the income affidavit. There's probably a small chance they'll play ball but if you don't ask you don't get! Immigration have surprised me several times in a positive way over the years.

Thanks for your suggestion about visiting the Jomtien office ahead of time. I have been considering such an approach, and bringing with me a letter from my Thai doctor. "Excuses" tend to be viewed more favorably when they are offered well before a violation (extension expiration) than after the violation.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Barefoot

[chrisinth]

There doesn't seem much choice but to go to Bangkok for the income affidavit. If you don't renew your extension before May 3rd you will be on overstay which is not a good idea in the current climate. Although there is a good chance they will accept the application a few days late they can charge 500 per day in overstay fines.

It might be worth a phone call/visit to the Jomtien office well ahead of May 3rd. A big maybe, but if you explain the medical situation maybe they will accept an application without the income affidavit and put the application under consideration for 30 days. That would keep you legal and give you time to get the income affidavit. There's probably a small chance they'll play ball but if you don't ask you don't get! Immigration have surprised me several times in a positive way over the years.

It may also be an idea to contact your embassy and see if this can be done through the EMS services, completing the form, submitting by mail with SAE included.

If your medical condition is such that a doctor's letter could be obtained, the above could be a possibility. Obviously depending on how receptive the embassy is.

[lopburi3]

Affidavit must be signed in presence of Consular Officer - it can not be done by mail.

There might be a possibility that immigration would accept application for extension without meeting requirements and provide normal 7 days to leave and perhaps allow you to return to continue or make new application before that time expires.

[JLCrab]

Personally, I would not consider anything other than what Joe suggested above which is to get a comfortable car and driver for your trip into Bangkok and the US Embassy on Wireless. Your current extension expiration is a hard date stamped into your passport and anyone at the IMM Office in Jomtien who tells you it's OK to renew after that date might not be there or be overruled the day you go in to get your further extension.

If you disrupt your continuous stay on extensions via retirement, you might not be eligible for any grandfather-type provisions should the extension regulations change some time down the road.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab

[fullcave]

You will be fined 500 THB pay and get a stern warning. It happened to me once. Not much fun but they are reasonable if you are a couple days late.

[bluebluewater]

I would take NO chances and would endure the trip to BKK. If, in spite of your best efforts and whatever understandings you might think that you have with your Immi office, things go to crap and your extension of stay is not renewed, that one day trip to BKK will look like a day on the beach for all the other hoops you will have to jump through to get things sorted again.

[colinchaffers]

Personally, I would not consider anything other than what Joe suggested above which is to get a comfortable car and driver for your trip into Bangkok and the US Embassy on Wireless. Your current extension expiration is a hard date stamped into your passport and anyone at the IMM Office in Jomtien who tells you it's OK to renew after that date might not be there or be overruled the day you go in to get your further extension.

If you disrupt your continuous stay on extensions via retirement, you might not be eligible for any grandfather-type provisions should the extension regulations change some time down the road.

what is a "grandfather-type" provison?

[JLCrab]

The following is from the current Immigration Police Order 327/2557 at 2.22 (Extension) In Case of retirement (however):

6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

If your extension expires 3 MAY 2016 and your new extensions starts say 9 MAY 2016 you are no longer on consecutive stay. No grandfather-type exceptions for you should that occur down the road. With the above, someone on continuous stay and over 60 years age would only have show income of 20K per month versus the 65K for others or only 200K in the bank versus 800K

Note that the 1998 date is the same as when issued in the previous Police Order 777/2551 when the continuous stay required would only have been 10 years.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab

[PETERTHEEATER]

JLCrab, you're going to have to explain that to me. The 'following criteria' is a statement of yours using dates supplied by the OP. Is something missing here or am I thick?

[ChrisKC]

Thanks to both of you for your kind replies. The marriage option is unavailable, so it looks like I will have to travel to Bangkok.

For two years running my retirement extensions were delayed by two and three days (including a weekend) after expiry. On both occasions I was treated with understanding as it was my paperwork not quite right relating to money in the bank.

Even though there are new enforcements on Overstayers I doubt if you will have any trouble other than the fine which I had to pay and it was recorded in my passport. Immigration are not looking for Overstayers like you and me.

I am not sure about the precise discomfort you will endure with a trip to Bangkok but, like others, I would suggest you bite that bullet; get yourself really organised, go, and appreciate it is only once a year.

As a matter of Interest, I have just (29 March) had a successful retirement extension application in Chiang Mai that I decided would be better than those days in May* when there are so many days Immigration are closed and therefore much busier when they eventually open again.

You can apply up to 45 days in advance of the expiry date (depends on the Office)

* Last year I changed from a May expiry to an April one because my passport expired then.

In any event, take your time, get it right - and good luck

[JLCrab]

JLCrab, you're going to have to explain that to me. The 'following criteria' is a statement of yours using dates supplied by the OP. Is something missing here or am I thick?

If his current extension expires on 3 MAY 2016 and his new extension starts 9 MAY 2016 then he would be no longer on continuous stay and most likely not eligible for the exception as in the Police Order at 2.22 - 6 above. Currently it seems OP has been on continuous stay via retirement extension since 2007

I would not want to be in a position to claim such an exception down the road and then have gaps between the expiration of one extension of stay and the beginning of another.

Here is the whole section of the current Police Order extension of stay via retirement. The 'grandfather' section is at (6):

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000

( -b-) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

Note: I added the bold to the numbers.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab

[peterb17]

There is an agent who I believe will obtain the paperwork required- I think they ask a very reasonable 300 baht for the service .

However this was with the UK embassy , so I am not sure if they could do this for you. Located near BigC on Sukamvit

[lopburi3]

UK does not use the same system - for US it must be signed before Consular Official making it a federal offence if any information is false.

As for retirement grandfather it only applies to those on extension at time of an increase - as long as you continue after the increase you can use the old financials. So unless there was a change during the time he did not have extension it would not effect poster.

[peterb17]

UK does not use the same system - for US it must be signed before Consular Official making it a federal offence if any information is false.

As for retirement grandfather it only applies to those on extension at time of an increase - as long as you continue after the increase you can use the old financials. So unless there was a change during the time he did not have extension it would not effect poster.

Thanks , had a suspicion would not be the same, but was only an idea to save the OP from an uncomfortable trip to Bangkok

[JLCrab]

The change was made on Police Order 777/2551 saying you had to be on consecutive stay since 1998 meaning consecutive stay for the 10 years prior to 2008/2551. I take that to mean with no gaps. Not even 1 day. That is how I am managing my affairs. Up to you if different.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab

[ubonjoe]

The change was made on Police Order 777/2551 saying you had to be on consecutive stay since 1998 meaning consecutive stay for the 10 years prior to 2008/2551. I take that to mean with no gaps. Not even 1 day. That is how I am managing my affairs. Up to you if different.

I think that part of the police was done long before 2008. It was certainly in the 2006 police order. I think it was done when the police order was issued that raised the financial requirements went into effect.

[david555]

Affidavit must be signed in presence of Consular Officer - it can not be done by mail.

There might be a possibility that immigration would accept application for extension without meeting requirements and provide normal 7 days to leave and perhaps allow you to return to continue or make new application before that time expires.

I think this is a rule for American embassy ....., as I get every year my affidavit by ems , whole procedure by ems mail , but not American embassy but Belgium embassy ..., just now doing new ID card also whole by EMS mail procedure .

[JLCrab]

The change was made on Police Order 777/2551 saying you had to be on consecutive stay since 1998 meaning consecutive stay for the 10 years prior to 2008/2551. I take that to mean with no gaps. Not even 1 day. That is how I am managing my affairs. Up to you if different.

I think that part of the police was done long before 2008. It was certainly in the 2006 police order. I think it was done when the police order was issued that raised the financial requirements went into effect.

The 777/2551 Police Order at 2.22 (6) specified a consecutive stay via retirement extension of 10 years to be eligible for the exemption to the new rules. If there is a gap between 2 retirement extensions, it is not consecutive stay and would not qualify for any such exemptions. That is how I interpret it. If others choose to interpret it differently, up to them.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab

[TKDfella]

As elviajero quite rightly points out, overstaying in the current situation is not a good idea. One just doesn't know if overstay will be recorded on your file and used against you in the future and although this might be pure speculation with the current crackdown I just wouldn't chance it.

[johnatong]

Affidavit must be signed in presence of Consular Officer - it can not be done by mail.

There might be a possibility that immigration would accept application for extension without meeting requirements and provide normal 7 days to leave and perhaps allow you to return to continue or make new application before that time expires.

I think this is a rule for American embassy ....., as I get every year my affidavit by ems , whole procedure by ems mail , but not American embassy but Belgium embassy ..., just now doing new ID card also whole by EMS mail procedure .

I very much doubt an "affidavit" can be obtained by post.

Suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

[ubonjoe]

The change was made on Police Order 777/2551 saying you had to be on consecutive stay since 1998 meaning consecutive stay for the 10 years prior to 2008/2551. I take that to mean with no gaps. Not even 1 day. That is how I am managing my affairs. Up to you if different.

I think that part of the police was done long before 2008. It was certainly in the 2006 police order. I think it was done when the police order was issued that raised the financial requirements went into effect.

The 777/2551 Police Order at 2.22 (6) specified a consecutive stay via retirement extension of 10 years to be eligible for the exemption to the new rules. If there is a gap between 2 retirement extensions, it is not consecutive stay and would not qualify for any such exemptions. That is how I interpret it. If others choose to interpret it differently, up to them.

I don't recall any police order mentioning 10 years they all stated the date in 1998.

Clause 2.22 of 327/2558 is exactly the same as 777/2551 there were no changes made to it. Have a look yourself, Police order 777-2551 extension of stay rules EN - T&G (1).pdf

[david555]

Affidavit must be signed in presence of Consular Officer - it can not be done by mail.

There might be a possibility that immigration would accept application for extension without meeting requirements and provide normal 7 days to leave and perhaps allow you to return to continue or make new application before that time expires.

I think this is a rule for American embassy ....., as I get every year my affidavit by ems , whole procedure by ems mail , but not American embassy but Belgium embassy ..., just now doing new ID card also whole by EMS mail procedure .

I very much doubt an "affidavit" can be obtained by post.

Suggest you look up the meaning of the word.

I can only confirm that I receive that year by year that way from my Belgium embassy...no matter what the latin language say ...

Edited March 31, 2016 by david555

[lopburi3]

The 1998 date was when the retirement changed to the single type of 50 years/65k - those that had retirement extensions on that date could continue to use the previous criteria as long as they keep extending without a lapse. There was no requirement to have been on such extensions for any period of time and likely would not be if this happens again.

[Barefoot]

Thanks to everyone for the wise and helpful posts. I'll head up to Bangkok this time and next year I will take care of the income letter during an earlier Pattaya U.S. Consulate outreach visit.

[JLCrab]

As I said, you can interpret the word 'consecutively' any way you choose.

Some new Police Order might say:

As of January 1, 2019, the new requirements for extension of stay based on retirement are 100K per month income or 1.2 million baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months.

Anyone who has consecutively been permitted to stay in The Kingdom based upon retirement since January 1, 2009, shall be subject to the criteria of 65K baht per month income or 800K baht in a Thai bank account for 3 months.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JLCrab