Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[chiang mai]

Does anyone have the names and phone numbers of reputable insurance companies that offer accident insurance?

AA Insurance Brokers are sponsors on Thai Visa, Peter is the owner. They are very good at answering all insurance related questions and obtaining quotes/options, perhaps send Peter a PM.

[csabo]

This is the question that puts all the others into the shade. I certainly don't wish to die in Thailand due to inadequate health insurance, and I think I have it covered. In view of the large numbers of guys that don' t have enough to fork out the ฿400 000 or ฿800 000 for an extension, I imagine that there are many here that expect their Thai families to look after them and then pay their medical expenses.

It really is the down side and unacknowledged aspect of expat life for many here,

When exactly is it your understanding this money is "forked out"?

[csabo]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it was a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Whew is that all it takes? A few hundred thousand USD in liquid assets? Peanuts! With that fact in mind it's a wonder how insurance companies make money at all.

[1happykamper]

Hot topic. However.. And respectfully.. I think a lot of you worry waaaaay too much.

[losworld]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

I understand your point but it's all about odds Colin. The health insurance company is betting this won't happen to the majority of people and if it did they would be bankrupt long ago. Those uninsured are betting it will not happen to them and the odds are well in their favor. However, if it does happen without insurance it can be catastrophic.

[JanPeder]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

I have the same thoughts. If I get sick (afraid big operation - heart and cancer) I will go back to Sweden. Before I paid about 57 % taxes in Sweden. So I dont feel bad about going back to Sweden and use my rights (free care).

But I have one insurence. Accident. Because of the traffic. I only pay 10 000 bath/year.

In three years nothing happen.

I also save, in the bank, about 700 dollars every month. In case something bad happen....... for me or my family...we only use goverment hospital. And as far my experience are. They are good.

[ignis]

We've been through this one before::

Health insurance is not a good deal unless you get real sick thus the guys who like to say on here that they are 'way ahead' for not buying heath insurance because they didn't get real sick. Most people do not expect to get real sick. But of the small percentage of people that do get real sick, probably close to 100% of them never expected to get real sick either.

You also have to factor in that some of those on here that say that they self-insure and would never buy health insurance are medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

re medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

And of course that is entirely their fault and they should jump off a balcony because their situation in life was different from yours - I assume you can afford insurance? So you must be a 'good person." What of those who can not, either here nor in there home country? They're just 'bad people' right? And they should just accept that eventually they will be forced to commit suicide? Right?

Health insurance is something you should buy before you become a medical basket case, not after. I signed up for health insurance within months of arriving full-time in Thailand 15 years ago when the premiums were reasonable and I had no medical conditions that would deny coverage. That may not be the case if I tried to buy insurance today.

If you think I should have answer for those with limited financial resources and potentially large medical expenses and/or advanced age and no insurance either in Thailand or their home country, I don't.

quote - Health insurance is something you should buy before you become a medical basket case, not after -...

All very well for some.. myself had 'medical conditions' since the age of 10...... then in my 40's diabetes, blood pressure, and now well in my 60's have even more, many which would be excluded in any claim if I had insurance.

​From experience as I posted before even with the best Insurance there is no warranty there going to pay out.

[NancyL]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

Good question about how can I (and others) assists elderly expats with serious health problems who can't afford medical treatments. We're the members of Lanna Care Net and we've been thru training and are aware of the resources available both here and in the clients home country for assistance.

For example, many Americans who served in the U.S. military, even for a brief period, aren't aware that they're qualified for assistance if they're low income and/or have high medical bills once they're over age 65. They think VA benefits are only for those who made a career of the U.S. military. I've guided numerous U.S. vets (and their widows) thru the minefield that is the application process for VA benefits. (Sadly, VFW membership is available only to those who actually served overseas, but the benefits I mentioned are available to all vets who served during the specified timeframes)

Other examples of how we can help -- in keeping elderly expats with health problems complient with their Thai immigration requirements. This is one reason I keep myself current on what's happening at Imm., because I'm helping or advising older people with health problems on how to deal with 90 day reports and extensions, including medical extensions.

Other ways we can help -- some of our members are retired doctors and nurses. They visit clients in their homes weekly to check that they're taking meds properly, educate Thai family members on how to prepare food that older westerners find appealing, go with clients to doctors appointments to help them "listen, ask good questions and remember" what the doctor says.

Sometimes clients decide to return to their home countries, but are overwhelmed in figuring out the details -- how to get rid of their stuff here, find a place to live in their home country, make travel arrangements, pack, even how to get to the airport. All this can be difficult if you have diminished physical and mental capabilities and especially difficult if you need to access to the social services of your home country when you return. Needless to say, often our caseworkers spend much time on the phone talking with officials in their clients home countries. Where possible, we have caseworkers of the same nationality as the clients.

Let's see -- the list just goes on. I could keep writing. No case is truly hopeless. Yes, some people truly aren't able to pay their bills. The gov't hospitals will work out a payment plan. Often one of our caseworkers is on the scene during that process to make sure the client understands what he's signing and the process for making payments. Sometimes, it's physically difficult for the client to get into the hospital each month to make the payments and amazingly, there isn't a good mechanism for paying via bank transfer. Some of our caseworkers collect the payments each month and scan and email the receipts to the clients, and eventually pass along the paper copy. Unfortunately, we started to do this when we found clients were giving money for contract payment to their neighbors or maids and then not bothering to ask for receipts. And the hospital would have no record that the client's payment contract was being fulfilled.

The gov't hospitals have a human rights obligation to treat someone in an emergency condition, regardless of ability to pay. Thus, a foreigner who is living from pension-check-to-pension-check can show up at their E/R in the midst of a heart attack and they will treat and stabilize him. That bill can be as high as 150,000 baht. But they'll send him home with a bagful of meds and a payment contract with the strong advise that he needs to have several cardiac stents installed to prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of his life.. But, that is considered an "elective procedure" and they won't perform that surgery unless 150,000 baht is deposited first. Of course, if the expat has no savings and is only able to pay off the bill for the initial heart attack at a rate of 10,000 baht per month, he better pray that he stays very, very healthy.

[JLCrab]

We've been through this one before::

Health insurance is not a good deal unless you get real sick thus the guys who like to say on here that they are 'way ahead' for not buying heath insurance because they didn't get real sick. Most people do not expect to get real sick. But of the small percentage of people that do get real sick, probably close to 100% of them never expected to get real sick either.

You also have to factor in that some of those on here that say that they self-insure and would never buy health insurance are medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

re medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

And of course that is entirely their fault and they should jump off a balcony because their situation in life was different from yours - I assume you can afford insurance? So you must be a 'good person." What of those who can not, either here nor in there home country? They're just 'bad people' right? And they should just accept that eventually they will be forced to commit suicide? Right?

Health insurance is something you should buy before you become a medical basket case, not after. I signed up for health insurance within months of arriving full-time in Thailand 15 years ago when the premiums were reasonable and I had no medical conditions that would deny coverage. That may not be the case if I tried to buy insurance today.

If you think I should have answer for those with limited financial resources and potentially large medical expenses and/or advanced age and no insurance either in Thailand or their home country, I don't.

quote - Health insurance is something you should buy before you become a medical basket case, not after -...

All very well for some.. myself had 'medical conditions' since the age of 10...... then in my 40's diabetes, blood pressure, and now well in my 60's have even more, many which would be excluded in any claim if I had insurance.

​From experience as I posted before even with the best Insurance there is no warranty there going to pay out.

Not all very well for some, but all very well for most. If they don't bother to buy health insurance when they are young and reasonably healthy, then that was most often a choice even if your circumstances were different.

And then there are some who figure the chance that they won't have any major incident and will come out ahead by not purchasing health insurance when they could -- then, if they don;t have a major incident, they can then congratulate themselves for being smarter than those who didn't have a major incident but DID buy insurance and who are suckers.

When you mention that insurance companies don't pay out, all I can say is, when you read stuff like that, you are only getting to hear one side of the story.

[hml367]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

Good question about how can I (and others) assists elderly expats with serious health problems who can't afford medical treatments. We're the members of Lanna Care Net and we've been thru training and are aware of the resources available both here and in the clients home country for assistance.

For example, many Americans who served in the U.S. military, even for a brief period, aren't aware that they're qualified for assistance if they're low income and/or have high medical bills once they're over age 65. They think VA benefits are only for those who made a career of the U.S. military. I've guided numerous U.S. vets (and their widows) thru the minefield that is the application process for VA benefits. (Sadly, VFW membership is available only to those who actually served overseas, but the benefits I mentioned are available to all vets who served during the specified timeframes)

Other examples of how we can help -- in keeping elderly expats with health problems complient with their Thai immigration requirements. This is one reason I keep myself current on what's happening at Imm., because I'm helping or advising older people with health problems on how to deal with 90 day reports and extensions, including medical extensions.

Other ways we can help -- some of our members are retired doctors and nurses. They visit clients in their homes weekly to check that they're taking meds properly, educate Thai family members on how to prepare food that older westerners find appealing, go with clients to doctors appointments to help them "listen, ask good questions and remember" what the doctor says.

Sometimes clients decide to return to their home countries, but are overwhelmed in figuring out the details -- how to get rid of their stuff here, find a place to live in their home country, make travel arrangements, pack, even how to get to the airport. All this can be difficult if you have diminished physical and mental capabilities and especially difficult if you need to access to the social services of your home country when you return. Needless to say, often our caseworkers spend much time on the phone talking with officials in their clients home countries. Where possible, we have caseworkers of the same nationality as the clients.

Let's see -- the list just goes on. I could keep writing. No case is truly hopeless. Yes, some people truly aren't able to pay their bills. The gov't hospitals will work out a payment plan. Often one of our caseworkers is on the scene during that process to make sure the client understands what he's signing and the process for making payments. Sometimes, it's physically difficult for the client to get into the hospital each month to make the payments and amazingly, there isn't a good mechanism for paying via bank transfer. Some of our caseworkers collect the payments each month and scan and email the receipts to the clients, and eventually pass along the paper copy. Unfortunately, we started to do this when we found clients were giving money for contract payment to their neighbors or maids and then not bothering to ask for receipts. And the hospital would have no record that the client's payment contract was being fulfilled.

The gov't hospitals have a human rights obligation to treat someone in an emergency condition, regardless of ability to pay. Thus, a foreigner who is living from pension-check-to-pension-check can show up at their E/R in the midst of a heart attack and they will treat and stabilize him. That bill can be as high as 150,000 baht. But they'll send him home with a bagful of meds and a payment contract with the strong advise that he needs to have several cardiac stents installed to prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of his life.. But, that is considered an "elective procedure" and they won't perform that surgery unless 150,000 baht is deposited first. Of course, if the expat has no savings and is only able to pay off the bill for the initial heart attack at a rate of 10,000 baht per month, he better pray that he stays very, very healthy.

NancyL,

Can you please clarify the 2d paragraph relating to VA benefits. What will VA pay for when a veteran is living in Thailand?

Also, I believe VFW is not only living abroad, but active service for a specified length of time in a qualified combat situation... is this correct?

[LivinLOS]

I dont take insurance.. I dont believe in collectivization.. You would have to assume your under average to think it pays.. In a way insurance is yet another tax on the poor.

I have access to funds that can cover any medical issue.

In 15 years I have had only a few illnesses.. Until a year or 3 ago I was way ahead.. Then my wife ended up in ICU and that cost me a bit.. I got bust by a bad Thai driver and that cost me too.. But the courts awarded me that damage.

I am way ahead of having bupa for the last 15 years, but admit thats now down to only being 50% ahead rather than 90% ahead that it was a couple of years ago.

If you dont have ready access to a couple hundred k USD, in very liquid assets.. Have insurance !!

Whew is that all it takes? A few hundred thousand USD in liquid assets? Peanuts! With that fact in mind it's a wonder how insurance companies make money at all.

My point remains.. Insurance is for those who cant meet the costs. The wealthy dont really need it, and as insurance is a business, if you have assets, then you 'should' be able to beat the odds. Not everyone does, but thats just the law of averages.

Having a few 100k baht on tap, isnt enough to not have insurance.. then your better off having something. But if you have access to funds. It then becomes a personal choice. I have other issues with collectivization and its a partly moral position also.

When choosing to be an expat, you also make a conscious choice to be more self reliant, you dont have 'home country' assistance to fall back on. Those are all part of the choices we make, hopefully with open eyes, when we choose to become one.

[cyberfarang]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

Good question about how can I (and others) assists elderly expats with serious health problems who can't afford medical treatments. We're the members of Lanna Care Net and we've been thru training and are aware of the resources available both here and in the clients home country for assistance.

For example, many Americans who served in the U.S. military, even for a brief period, aren't aware that they're qualified for assistance if they're low income and/or have high medical bills once they're over age 65. They think VA benefits are only for those who made a career of the U.S. military. I've guided numerous U.S. vets (and their widows) thru the minefield that is the application process for VA benefits. (Sadly, VFW membership is available only to those who actually served overseas, but the benefits I mentioned are available to all vets who served during the specified timeframes)

Other examples of how we can help -- in keeping elderly expats with health problems complient with their Thai immigration requirements. This is one reason I keep myself current on what's happening at Imm., because I'm helping or advising older people with health problems on how to deal with 90 day reports and extensions, including medical extensions.

Other ways we can help -- some of our members are retired doctors and nurses. They visit clients in their homes weekly to check that they're taking meds properly, educate Thai family members on how to prepare food that older westerners find appealing, go with clients to doctors appointments to help them "listen, ask good questions and remember" what the doctor says.

Sometimes clients decide to return to their home countries, but are overwhelmed in figuring out the details -- how to get rid of their stuff here, find a place to live in their home country, make travel arrangements, pack, even how to get to the airport. All this can be difficult if you have diminished physical and mental capabilities and especially difficult if you need to access to the social services of your home country when you return. Needless to say, often our caseworkers spend much time on the phone talking with officials in their clients home countries. Where possible, we have caseworkers of the same nationality as the clients.

Let's see -- the list just goes on. I could keep writing. No case is truly hopeless. Yes, some people truly aren't able to pay their bills. The gov't hospitals will work out a payment plan. Often one of our caseworkers is on the scene during that process to make sure the client understands what he's signing and the process for making payments. Sometimes, it's physically difficult for the client to get into the hospital each month to make the payments and amazingly, there isn't a good mechanism for paying via bank transfer. Some of our caseworkers collect the payments each month and scan and email the receipts to the clients, and eventually pass along the paper copy. Unfortunately, we started to do this when we found clients were giving money for contract payment to their neighbors or maids and then not bothering to ask for receipts. And the hospital would have no record that the client's payment contract was being fulfilled.

The gov't hospitals have a human rights obligation to treat someone in an emergency condition, regardless of ability to pay. Thus, a foreigner who is living from pension-check-to-pension-check can show up at their E/R in the midst of a heart attack and they will treat and stabilize him. That bill can be as high as 150,000 baht. But they'll send him home with a bagful of meds and a payment contract with the strong advise that he needs to have several cardiac stents installed to prevent future heart attacks and improve the quality of his life.. But, that is considered an "elective procedure" and they won't perform that surgery unless 150,000 baht is deposited first. Of course, if the expat has no savings and is only able to pay off the bill for the initial heart attack at a rate of 10,000 baht per month, he better pray that he stays very, very healthy.

Thanks.

According to what I have been reading in the immigration threads it seems that some elderly expats are hard pushed to find agency fees to extend their retirement visas each year and why a lot of them are taking the route of queuing up for hours at the Prom. So I guess having to dig up 300000 baht for medical is going to be near impossible for them if they are living from hand to mouth each month. Why some people would choose to live this way goes beyond my understanding. They must sure be desperate to leave their own countries for some reasons.

Now then, now then, now then, I have a suggestion for Thai visa if I may be so bold. Considering how important these medical issues are, could it be possible to start a specific medical insurance forum where insurance companies could advertise their services, that could include Thai hospitals advertising their services with advice on how to obtain health care in our own countries and other important medical issues. This would work on different lines from the current medical forum based on facilities and costs instead of people discussing their health problems. I am sure there would be a lot of insurance companies and private hospitals keen to become sponsors as Thai visa is a main source of information in the ever expanding Farlang populations in Thailand.

I don`t know what Lanna care is but it sounds good and it seems you are knowledgeable and have a trusted reputation among Chiang Mai expats and could also be a valuable resource on those forums as an advisory if you`d be willing to take that on.

I`m just throwing out an idea and would like to hear from admin and others if they think this is a good idea or not?

[JLCrab]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

[TheSiemReaper]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

[chiang mai]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

For the vast minority of us that do, I elect not to insure and rather to pay as I go, (if I need to), as long as that's OK with you!

[JLCrab]

Electing not to insure presumes that there would be an insurance company willing to insure you.

After I had been insured in Thailand for several years, I decided to apply for policies from some of the international policy insurers that advertise on Thai Visa or at least their ads appear through AdSense. I applied to 4 simultaneously so I could answer the question NO that no insurer had ever turned me down for coverage.

All four insurers rejected my application. So I stayed with what i already had.

From one of those insurers:

Dear Mr. Crab -- Our Underwriting Department has carefully reviewed your enrollment application. However, in view to the medical conditions declared your enrollment application has been declined.

And a second:

We received the above referenced XYZ Medical Plan application and according to our Underwriting Guidelines, we are not able to offer JL Crab coverage. It is not our policy to provide explanations of our underwriting practices. There are several reasons for this, disclosure of medical information that the patient may not already know, professional liability and confidential business practices.

(Have a Nice Day)

[billd766]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

OK. I will go home if you personally guarantee to look after my Thai wife and son for the rest of your and their lives.

Why should I have to abandon my Thai family just because you think it is a good idea?

[anto]

>>All four insurers rejected my application. So I stayed with what i already had.<<.......The fact that i disclosed that i take medication for H.B.P.,was enough for Insurance to not cover for any kind of heart related illness .

[TheSiemReaper]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

OK. I will go home if you personally guarantee to look after my Thai wife and son for the rest of your and their lives.

Why should I have to abandon my Thai family just because you think it is a good idea?

Nice, so you had a child and can't take the responsibility for insuring you are healthy enough to raise it? Incredible parenting; I can see why you'd want to shift that job to someone else but I'll pass all the same thanks.

[NancyL]

This is in answer to questions raised in response to my previous post. I'm not going to quote them because I think I'll exceed the limit for nested quotes.

With regard to VA benefits available for U.S. vets over aged 65 who are either low income and/or have high medical bills: http://www.benefits.va.gov/pension/vetpen.asp

The vet must be over aged 65 and have served at least 90 days during certain specified wartime periods. The service does not have to have been overseas: http://www.benefits.va.gov/PENSION/wartimeperiod.asp

Medical expenses, including those in Thailand, are counted as a deduction against income when figuring if someone is eligible to receive the pension. Basically, the low income pension will "top off" other sources of income to reach to benefit level spelled out in this chart: http://militarybenefits.info/veterans-pension-rate-table/ You'll note three categories: the basic pension, "housebound" and "A&A" which stands for "Aid & Attendance". If a vet needs ongoing care, then a doctor can complete VA forms that will permit him to be certified as either "housebound" or in need of more round-the-clock attention and the amount paid by the VA increases. Note -- this same program also includes a pension for widows and the widow does not have to have lived in the U.S. to be able to receive the pension.

The local and country VFW helps its members to apply for these and other VA benefits. In order to join the VFW, someone must have served in the military overseas in a conflict. Not everyone who is eligible for the VA low income pension is able to join to the VFW, so Lanna Care Net can advise those people in how to apply for the VA benefits. Incidentally, the local and country VFW has been a very helpful resource for Lanna Care Net in advising us on how to work with the VA. They aren't an easy group to work with!

About another post that was in reply to mine. I find the ThaiVisa Health forums to be excellent. I check them daily and have learned much about health and specifically health care in Thailand. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/23-health-body-and-medicine/ And there's an Insurance forum where members compare experiences with different types of Insurance: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/ It's not as active, and I think often overlooked by expats shopping for insurance.

[louse1953]

I had been under pressure from back home and also the wife here to take out accident and health insurance, but never having been ill in my life or having an accident needing more than a plaster it wasnt important for me.

What was spelt out, was that it was equally as important for my family so they would have something less to worry about.

Then my instinct told me, you have been here 5 years and the chances/odds of a road accident are increasing every day.

I certainly cannot afford to be finding 300k and upwards for what might only be a broken leg let alone anything worse.

i think when people accept how selfish they are being they will take out a policy not just for them self but for their wife.

You are wrong about your odds,they are the same every day.

[chiang mai]

Electing not to insure presumes that there would be an insurance company willing to insure you.

After I had been insured in Thailand for several years, I decided to apply for policies from some of the international policy insurers that advertise on Thai Visa or at least their ads appear through AdSense. I applied to 4 simultaneously so I could answer the question NO that no insurer had ever turned me down for coverage.

All four insurers rejected my application. So I stayed with what i already had.

From one of those insurers:

Dear Mr. Crab -- Our Underwriting Department has carefully reviewed your enrollment application. However, in view to the medical conditions declared your enrollment application has been declined.

And a second:

We received the above referenced XYZ Medical Plan application and according to our Underwriting Guidelines, we are not able to offer JL Crab coverage. It is not our policy to provide explanations of our underwriting practices. There are several reasons for this, disclosure of medical information that the patient may not already know, professional liability and confidential business practices.

(Have a Nice Day)

We have debated this subject many times thus you know my views on it, what you don't perhaps know is that from time to time I have tested the waters to see if buying insurance makes sense and whether anything has substantially changed.

Most recently I went through the process with Pacific Cross, AXA International and one other company. PC wanted a full history and a comprehensive medical which I was only too happy to comply with since I was due any way. The results of the medical were overwhelmingly positive with only one small surprise in the form of uric acid levels, drink more water the doc. said. AXA didn't really want much of anything apart from the premiums on the understanding that no pre-existing condition was covered for the first couple of years and was then subject to a review of the past five years - AXA premiums of around 15k baht a month which didn't seem like good value to me. PC premiums were lower but subject to a co-pay on the first 300k and a 100k deductible plus a list of exclusions which meant I was effectively eligible for covered treatment of dandruff and ingrown toenails only!

So yes, I can get coverage but at those sorts of numbers and under those T & C's, no thank you.

[LivinLOS]

Personal insurance for the wealthy is a no-brainer as the premiums are minor and there is a big upside if something goes wrong ... and rich people like situations with a big upside. The notion that wealthy people don't buy insurance because they have the funds to cover any type of catastrophe is a myth.

... or as in a famous US commercial why a rich person like him should care about the small matters:

" How do you think a person like me got to be a person like me."

Spot on. I have never seen so much ridiculous justification for an unjustifiable position as in this thread. From; "I'll jump off a balcony" (sure you will), to "rich people don't insure" (you're having a laugh). Insurance is a shared risk proposition. Some of us will claim, some of us won't but the potential upside will nearly always outweigh the potential downside. The idea that as long as you have 3 million Baht, you're OK is absolutely ridiculous. And the vast majority of posters don't have 3 million Baht in liquid assets either. Waiting four years to sell your house while you have cancer will quickly teach you the difference between liquid assets and those that aren't.

If you live in a developing nation like Thailand - you should have health insurance. It should be a condition of any long-term visa for the country (including and perhaps, especially, retirement). No insurance? Then go home.

You just have to accept that not everyone thinks like or is in the same position as you..

Lets say you didnt have only 3 million baht.. but a small buffer in life, say in excess of 3 - 5 mil USD.. Much of which in near cash / liquid assets.. Where is the upside in 'shared risk' ?? Whats going to happen to me I cant just cut a cheque for ??

Some people need to accept that even a mulit million baht medical emergency, wouldnt make much of a dent in overall personal assets. Especially given the cost of medical care here.. Sure no one wants it to happen, but if it did it wouldnt cause any lost sleep over the cost, only the health issue.

[JLCrab]

It would just gall some fabulously wealthy persons to have to shell out a couple hundred thousand dollars for a medical condition that might have only cost them 10-20 thousand dollars in premiums spread out of a large number of years which is why they go with the premiums.

Back in the days of clipping newspaper grocery store coupons, it was well established that there were 2 demographics who used those coupons extensively: Those who were very poor and those who were very rich. I think some on here don't seem to grasp that mentality.

BTW I presume that the gents on here, for whom a multi-million baht medical bill would be but a trifle in their net assets, are Brits -- maybe that makes a difference vs. an American POV.

[hml367]

This is in answer to questions raised in response to my previous post. I'm not going to quote them because I think I'll exceed the limit for nested quotes.

With regard to VA benefits available for U.S. vets over aged 65 who are either low income and/or have high medical bills: http://www.benefits.va.gov/pension/vetpen.asp

The vet must be over aged 65 and have served at least 90 days during certain specified wartime periods. The service does not have to have been overseas: http://www.benefits.va.gov/PENSION/wartimeperiod.asp

Medical expenses, including those in Thailand, are counted as a deduction against income when figuring if someone is eligible to receive the pension. Basically, the low income pension will "top off" other sources of income to reach to benefit level spelled out in this chart: http://militarybenefits.info/veterans-pension-rate-table/ You'll note three categories: the basic pension, "housebound" and "A&A" which stands for "Aid & Attendance". If a vet needs ongoing care, then a doctor can complete VA forms that will permit him to be certified as either "housebound" or in need of more round-the-clock attention and the amount paid by the VA increases. Note -- this same program also includes a pension for widows and the widow does not have to have lived in the U.S. to be able to receive the pension.

The local and country VFW helps its members to apply for these and other VA benefits. In order to join the VFW, someone must have served in the military overseas in a conflict. Not everyone who is eligible for the VA low income pension is able to join to the VFW, so Lanna Care Net can advise those people in how to apply for the VA benefits. Incidentally, the local and country VFW has been a very helpful resource for Lanna Care Net in advising us on how to work with the VA. They aren't an easy group to work with!

About another post that was in reply to mine. I find the ThaiVisa Health forums to be excellent. I check them daily and have learned much about health and specifically health care in Thailand. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/23-health-body-and-medicine/ And there's an Insurance forum where members compare experiences with different types of Insurance: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/ It's not as active, and I think often overlooked by expats shopping for insurance.

Thank you.

[chiang mai]

Nail, head! Americans are conditioned to buy insurance, it's part of their culture, not yet entirely so in the UK but headed that way for sure.

[JLCrab]

Nail, head! Americans are conditioned to buy insurance, it's part of their culture, not yet entirely so in the UK but headed that way for sure.

The availability of reasonably priced comprehensive health insurance in Thailand, which was not available to me in US, is one of the reasons that my late father acquiesced to my moving to Thailand. What others do is up to them.

BTW I head to US next month for 3+ weeks and as my Thai-based insurance will not cover me there (other than for accident) I bought a 3+ week travel policy. So to guy who once queried: Yes -- I am still buying that health insurance, silly me.

[Kwasaki]

There is no insurance

Well as you can read on the thread there is l have a card for health insurance now and a card for accident insurance also a card for the gov hospital.

All better than what l had before, nowt.

[Rancid]

I am biased, in the past I've never found it easy getting money of of insurance companies, as such I don't have any at all.

I live a healrhyish lifestyle so certainly don't see the need for health insurance. That aside I can fly home if I needed something that wasn't an emergency.

That being said, observing the excitement a new geriatric hospital ignited, and the frequent posts on where to buy cheap pharmaceutical drugs, I assume many are in quite poor health.

For the drug dependent or infirmed, it probably is a good idea, seems it would depend on your circumstances.

[LivinLOS]

It would just gall some fabulously wealthy persons to have to shell out a couple hundred thousand dollars for a medical condition that might have only cost them 10-20 thousand dollars in premiums spread out of a large number of years which is why they go with the premiums.

Well I may not be fabulously wealthy.. I am well off enough that I can afford any medical issue..

It doesnt gall me at all to be self reliant.. I am above average healthy.. I would rather take my own risks in life and pay my own bills.

Insurance, pensions, managing assets, etc etc.. I want no part in any club that would have me as a member.