TechnikaIII Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The real killers will never be charged. The evidence has been so corrupted, the truth has forever disappeared into the national sinkhole of lies and cowardice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelplatoon Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Constantly and frequently Thai Police investigation is a shambles. I see it all the time. Wrong notes on questioning reports, people clearly showing an alibi and it says: confessed to all charges. If they wouldn't have a translator present they'd be scapegoats. On the subject of social media: see police stooges making posts about suspects guilt even before (and later not being) convicted!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy Joe Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This thread shows that social media now act exactly like the tabloids by raising irrelevant the scabrous subjects for the sole purpose to react. Or when trolls are inside ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Let's hope justice prevails and these guys are released! Wouldn't justice prevailing mean the real killers being found guilty and sentences in a court of law? No, it means both. No, it may mean both if B2 are innocent, but like their guilt, there seems no solid proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The Samui Times editor is completely emotionally and personally involved in this case and should disclose her involvement in it. A few days ago even inserting text to change the entire premise of the documentary Murder in Paradise as " stay away. murderers lurk.." it was nothing of the sort, and was almost balanced - for the first time we hear Motriawt crosssed that line AFTER bodies were wrapped and he is an appointed law enforcement office- a deputy of sorts as his brother, the head of the vilage has every right to appoint him. Just one of the BS lies going out to " prove" his involvement The justice pages are all about censoring and banning contrary opinions, and CSI la is all about getting clicks and dissing anyone who exposes that. Can't have justice without truth, and can't have truth with censorship. Here's a great post on a FB page I did not write it but wish I had. It is regarding an article in The Nation about social media and how it is narrowing discourse, not expanding it. It discusses the commentary of philosopher Zygmunt Bauman, for example this passage: "He notes that most people use social media not to embrace new thinking but to "cut themselves a comfort zone where the only sounds they hear are the echoes of their own voices and the only things they see are the reflections of their own faces"; which if you go to any of the so called "Justice" pages set up to propagate the narrative that Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats you will see (provided you want to see) how this echo chamber mentality is not just common, it is strictly enforced. Any opposing view, even one backed with facts is rejected.The end result is a few nodes of inbred, reality-challenged fundamentalists that seek salvation through proselytizing.Some time ago I noticed the similarity of that beheaviour with religious fanatics, listening to a debate against Creationism this line was as applicable to that sort of fundamentalism as it is to the "Koh Tao Truthers""your (mind) is blinded by faith and a doctrinal obligation to defend the sacred fables against all reason. That's what apologetics is all about, you assume your conclusions at the onset for reasons that have nothing to do with actual information and then you make up whatever excuse necessary to rationalize or justify your baseless assumptions regardless of what the facts are."Time and time again I've seen those "Truthers" repeat their fables, even when they have been debunked through clear evidence, they.don't.care, they just repeat them again and again. You can't have Justice without the Truth, and clearly they don't care about the Truth; they hold facts contrary to their presupositional beliefs in contempt, and will create any ad-hoc rationalization to dismiss them. The problem is that creates a feedback loop were this made on the spot rationalizations get kicked around Social Media and soon become "Facts".Then of course is the deliberate creation and spreading of outright lies, which in that culture of believing or at the very least never challenging everything that appears to fit in the preferred narrative goes on completely unfettered.So what's bad about all this? That tomorrow it could be you, or someone you care for, on the receiving end of it; so I, for one, chose to take a principled stand against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Let's hope justice prevails and these guys are released! Wouldn't justice prevailing mean the real killers being found guilty and sentences in a court of law? No, it means both. No, it may mean both if B2 are innocent, but like their guilt, there seems no solid proof. Seems to me that several crimes occurred that night, never have understood why Lin and Phyo were guilty of rape, so that automatically meant murder of both. Maybe just one murder - David- to facilitate the rape. Could that be the disconnect in evidence- several crimes, several people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfalfa19 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Slow news time in Samui? I can't think of any other reason why this article of reconstituted issues should be published at this time. How can the people/person who did this terrible crime live with himself? He has two people in prison under the sentence of death for something they clearly did not do. He murdered two people for his own psychopathic desires and has caused endless pain, emotional and otherwise to many people. It is beyond me to countenance such mentality. It's about time the Thais fingered him and put an end to the misery that this has caused. Sadly, I feel that the people responsible for this horror are not capable of feeling remorse. I think they are only upset because of the massive amount of money they have had to pay for the cover up. I feel they have been getting away with assault, rape, and even murder for a long time, and are used to getting away with it, to the point that they feel invincible. They are laying low for the time being, because this whole debacle has brought them way too much heat. But in time, they will return to what is their normal behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Constantly and frequently Thai Police investigation is a shambles. I see it all the time. Wrong notes on questioning reports, people clearly showing an alibi and it says: confessed to all charges. If they wouldn't have a translator present they'd be scapegoats. On the subject of social media: see police stooges making posts about suspects guilt even before (and later not being) convicted!! And who has put out this info? And why have I found him not so trustworthy lately? And how much other crap is floating around from his fan club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzz Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 What a pile of garbage. All these same issues all over again. Like lack of witnesses... Does the author truly believe that there would be witnesses to the murder hanging around that cove in the middle of the night? It's almost as if the author wasn't familiar with the case at all and just read some conspiracy Facebook pages. What a pile of garbage your post is . Its almost as if you were not familiar with koh tao and just read about it on the internet. I have been to koh tao twice a year from 2008 until the murders and have nevr been since and out of respect for the dead i will not. I stayed mostly about 100 metres from where they were killed and spent many an hour sitting on the beach sometimes 3/4 am and NEVER in all that time was the beach deserted. Thais catching squid , lovers , drunks , there are lots of people on the beach all night and lots of dogs . Shops and resorts are all open metres from the beach all night . There were probably dozens of people within 100 metres of the murders when they happened . I know the owner of the bar by sight and took an instant dislike to him and never went to his bar at least 7 years ago . Means nothing but before you slag people off you need to use the matter between your ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I wiĺl add my 2 cents again. They got the right 2. No mafia...just 2 dirtbags and they got caught. The british police got involved and no way would they not have said something if they knew these 2 were innocent! Stop already and execute them and be finished. There are British police posting on this thread And people so emotionally involved with the convicted, it borders on a pathological disturbance. Now I hear libel suits are being threatened to shut people up- especially about erred DNA memes that floated around last January on FB pages. Would really be interesting to see Thai judges have a look at that one-especially Surat Thani ones. Is anyone going to make a screen play out of this entire scenario 'cause it would make a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronwparker Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 What nonsense the unelected PM saying no Thai could commit these crimes when they happen so oftten with no Burmese as scapegoats!!! These guys are so obviously innocent that the International community should put massive pressure on Thailand!! Money talks and they will listen to the USA more than any other country!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This crime should have been all wrapped up with the dna results but missing clothes and incompetent by local police whether deliberately or not no one will believe the military hi so court decision guilty until the appropriate dna evidence is produced and independent tests outside Thailand are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Trial by Social Media, what next, bring back the good old lynch mob? Because that's what judging people on the court of public opinion can lead to. The editor of the Samui Times has abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity, or just plain decency for that matter; what she wrote here in nothing short of a propaganda piece, full of deception, factual inaccuracies and outright lies. One example (out of many):"Interestingly Montriwat first claimed to be the man on the CCTV TV but later police confirmed it was Wai Phyo, despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images, and that in fact Nomsod has a rather than more passing resemblance to the images seen and that during the court case an expert testified that thanks the to the unique gait of the man, it could not have been the defendant." The first paragraph is not true, Montriwat never said such thing, the last part is also not true, no expert testified that in court, it was Andy Hall presenting a "gait analysis" from a person who is not accredited on that and that testimony was dismissed for what it was, hearsay by a non expert. Then this part "despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images" now it's clear that the author of the article is just lying trying to deceive people, she added this picture to support her "case" Yes, thinning patch indeed, because those pictures were taken after he was arrested and his hair had been shaved. There's no two way about it, the author is lying, and like this one thousand and one other "Facts" uncovered by the Internet Sleuths she praises, they are lost in a cloud of speculation, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies. This are the people that are supposed to be fit to make judgements? Three lies in one paragraph, and that's not a fluke, the article in it's entirety is a steaming pile of BS. This is a picture of Wei Phyo on the day after he was arrested, with his hair before shaving, of course the author of the article wouldn't publish this one because A) it shows that he looks very much like the running man, and B ) because, according to the "They are Scapegoats" narrative he had been recently beaten nearly to death to extract a confession, anyone can spot any bruises, scraps or anything? Stop with the <deleted> lies already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Anything done rightly or wrongly, lawfully or otherwise, will be done to the satisfaction of the "authorities" who can then pat themselves on their collective backs while saying "Aren't we great!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 This crime should have been all wrapped up with the dna results but missing clothes and incompetent by local police whether deliberately or not no one will believe the military hi so court decision guilty until the appropriate dna evidence is produced and independent tests outside Thailand are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 There was, is and will probably always be reasonable doubt as to their guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveinAsia Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Let's hope justice prevails and these guys are released! Wouldn't justice prevailing mean the real killers being found guilty and sentences in a court of law? Court of law? Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phycokiller Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 unless the British police got DNA samples from the bodies and they can be matched with somebody this case will remain unsolved, altho that doesnt mean the Burmese wont be sacrificed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not sure but isn't owning a news publication reserved for Thais? I understand the site s owner is no longer in Thailand, might be a case of needing to block a site that is putting out complete fabrications. Is it MICT that is responsible for such matters, or did that change recently ? Others using personal FB pages to spread a lot of very nasty opinions about the junta ( and police emails that were obtained illegally) might want to reconsider a few thoughts of late regarding some retaliatory actions. Screen shots are our friends... Reminds me to post up that DNA meme dissection... Trial by Social Media, what next, bring back the good old lynch mob? Because that's what judging people on the court of public opinion can lead to. The editor of the Samui Times has abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity, or just plain decency for that matter; what she wrote here in nothing short of a propaganda piece, full of deception, factual inaccuracies and outright lies. One example (out of many):"Interestingly Montriwat first claimed to be the man on the CCTV TV but later police confirmed it was Wai Phyo, despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images, and that in fact Nomsod has a rather than more passing resemblance to the images seen and that during the court case an expert testified that thanks the to the unique gait of the man, it could not have been the defendant." The first paragraph is not true, Montriwat never said such thing, the last part is also not true, no expert testified that in court, it was Andy Hall presenting a "gait analysis" from a person who is not accredited on that and that testimony was dismissed for what it was, hearsay by a non expert. Then this part "despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images" now it's clear that the author of the article is just lying trying to deceive people, she added this picture to support her "case" running-man-wai-phyo-hair.jpg Yes, thinning patch indeed, because those pictures were taken after he was arrested and his hair had been shaved. There's no two way about it, the author is lying, and like this one thousand and one other "Facts" uncovered by the Internet Sleuths she praises, they are lost in a cloud of speculation, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies. This are the people that are supposed to be fit to make judgements? Three lies in one paragraph, and that's not a fluke, the article in it's entirety is a steaming pile of BS. This is a picture of Wei Phyo on the day after he was arrested, with his hair before shaving, of course the author of the article wouldn't publish this one because A) it shows that he looks very much like the running man, and B ) because, according to the "They are Scapegoats" narrative he had been recently beaten nearly to death to extract a confession, anyone can spot any bruises, scraps or anything?10247_191297354553966_309668673804381757_n.jpg 10255664_167427003616827_1542313092971708374_n.jpgStop with the <deleted> lies already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenterry Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not sure but isn't owning a news publication reserved for Thais? I understand the site s owner is no longer in Thailand, might be a case of needing to block a site that is putting out complete fabrications. Is it MICT that is responsible for such matters, or did that change recently ? Others using personal FB pages to spread a lot of very nasty opinions about the junta ( and police emails that were obtained illegally) might want to reconsider a few thoughts of late regarding some retaliatory actions. Screen shots are our friends... Reminds me to post up that DNA meme dissection... Trial by Social Media, what next, bring back the good old lynch mob? Because that's what judging people on the court of public opinion can lead to. The editor of the Samui Times has abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity, or just plain decency for that matter; what she wrote here in nothing short of a propaganda piece, full of deception, factual inaccuracies and outright lies. One example (out of many): "Interestingly Montriwat first claimed to be the man on the CCTV TV but later police confirmed it was Wai Phyo, despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images, and that in fact Nomsod has a rather than more passing resemblance to the images seen and that during the court case an expert testified that thanks the to the unique gait of the man, it could not have been the defendant." The first paragraph is not true, Montriwat never said such thing, the last part is also not true, no expert testified that in court, it was Andy Hall presenting a "gait analysis" from a person who is not accredited on that and that testimony was dismissed for what it was, hearsay by a non expert. Then this part "despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images" now it's clear that the author of the article is just lying trying to deceive people, she added this picture to support her "case" running-man-wai-phyo-hair.jpg Yes, thinning patch indeed, because those pictures were taken after he was arrested and his hair had been shaved. There's no two way about it, the author is lying, and like this one thousand and one other "Facts" uncovered by the Internet Sleuths she praises, they are lost in a cloud of speculation, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies. This are the people that are supposed to be fit to make judgements? Three lies in one paragraph, and that's not a fluke, the article in it's entirety is a steaming pile of BS. This is a picture of Wei Phyo on the day after he was arrested, with his hair before shaving, of course the author of the article wouldn't publish this one because A) it shows that he looks very much like the running man, and B ) because, according to the "They are Scapegoats" narrative he had been recently beaten nearly to death to extract a confession, anyone can spot any bruises, scraps or anything? 10247_191297354553966_309668673804381757_n.jpg 10255664_167427003616827_1542313092971708374_n.jpg Stop with the <deleted> lies already. I really don't think the majority of readers are swayed by your assertions. Even if the B2 are guilty, none of the crucial 'evidence', including the alleged DNA samples taken, has been verified, substantiated or validated. You may ask the question as to why? There is no logical answer except that the prosecution didn't possess any. They relied on 'normal' Thai practice that the court would believe the RTP's assertions, which is not a legal modus operandi. Hence the conviction of murder and rape (based on hearsay) was unsafe, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyman Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Great piece by Samui Times. Well written indeed. But who cares? In the end, even all the social media in the world won't be able to change much here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Not sure but isn't owning a news publication reserved for Thais? I understand the site s owner is no longer in Thailand, might be a case of needing to block a site that is putting out complete fabrications. Is it MICT that is responsible for such matters, or did that change recently ? Others using personal FB pages to spread a lot of very nasty opinions about the junta ( and police emails that were obtained illegally) might want to reconsider a few thoughts of late regarding some retaliatory actions. Screen shots are our friends... Reminds me to post up that DNA meme dissection... Trial by Social Media, what next, bring back the good old lynch mob? Because that's what judging people on the court of public opinion can lead to. The editor of the Samui Times has abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity, or just plain decency for that matter; what she wrote here in nothing short of a propaganda piece, full of deception, factual inaccuracies and outright lies. One example (out of many): "Interestingly Montriwat first claimed to be the man on the CCTV TV but later police confirmed it was Wai Phyo, despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images, and that in fact Nomsod has a rather than more passing resemblance to the images seen and that during the court case an expert testified that thanks the to the unique gait of the man, it could not have been the defendant." The first paragraph is not true, Montriwat never said such thing, the last part is also not true, no expert testified that in court, it was Andy Hall presenting a "gait analysis" from a person who is not accredited on that and that testimony was dismissed for what it was, hearsay by a non expert. Then this part "despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images" now it's clear that the author of the article is just lying trying to deceive people, she added this picture to support her "case" running-man-wai-phyo-hair.jpg Yes, thinning patch indeed, because those pictures were taken after he was arrested and his hair had been shaved. There's no two way about it, the author is lying, and like this one thousand and one other "Facts" uncovered by the Internet Sleuths she praises, they are lost in a cloud of speculation, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies. This are the people that are supposed to be fit to make judgements? Three lies in one paragraph, and that's not a fluke, the article in it's entirety is a steaming pile of BS. This is a picture of Wei Phyo on the day after he was arrested, with his hair before shaving, of course the author of the article wouldn't publish this one because A) it shows that he looks very much like the running man, and B ) because, according to the "They are Scapegoats" narrative he had been recently beaten nearly to death to extract a confession, anyone can spot any bruises, scraps or anything? 10247_191297354553966_309668673804381757_n.jpg 10255664_167427003616827_1542313092971708374_n.jpg Stop with the <deleted> lies already. I really don't think the majority of readers are swayed by your assertions. Even if the B2 are guilty, none of the crucial 'evidence', including the alleged DNA samples taken, has been verified, substantiated or validated. You may ask the question as to why? There is no logical answer except that the prosecution didn't possess any. They relied on 'normal' Thai practice that the court would believe the RTP's assertions, which is not a legal modus operandi. Hence the conviction of murder and rape (based on hearsay) was unsafe, IMO. And who says the evidence is unverified? Social media sites and cling on types looking for publicity. That DNA " expert" is not an accredited trial witness- in any nation and only possesses a bachelor's degree - hardly an expert no matter what her ( self edited) "Linked- in " profile states. I understand she has a book foe sale at $ 60 AUS. And so the police labs are complicit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robm579 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 What a crock of <deleted>.... This is not "trial by social media" This is the public standing up against the completely and probably deliberate mis management of the crime scene and evidence... And the subsequent arrests... The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....? Fingers and questions should be raised at those responsible in the Thai Police ... And heads should roll...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMagician Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 From the above Post #1: "No mention was made of what a great relief it was that two psychopathic killers were no longer on the loose, and the beaches of Koh Tao were once again safe to enjoy." Since the two murders last September 2014 and the arrest of the 2 now convicted of those crimes, no one has fortunately similarly been bludgeoned to death and left on the beaches of Koh Tao. When that has ever been mentioned before on these pages, the response has generally been: Those psychopathic killers still on the loose are clever and just biding their time. Headslap. You really think that is evidence of their guilt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtsabai Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The resident Kho Tao trolls were quick to act, some even using the same name. How are your benefactors treating you folks, good these days I guess? The murders are being forced to lay low, they will strike again, can't stop. They had killed before and will kill again. My friend and long time resident of death island long ago packed up his farang gf and split from Thailand completely. He knew one of the B2. That entire case was so screwed up not even a black man in Mississippi would have been convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindMagician Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 this isn't a "whodunnit" - regardless of who is guilty or not the procedures by both police and courts were so shoddy that any conviction - let alone a death penalty - is just too questionable to be enacted. the thai authorities by their handling of this affair have lost all credibility Can't lose what you don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 What a crock of <deleted>.... This is not "trial by social media" This is the public standing up against the completely and probably deliberate mis management of the crime scene and evidence... And the subsequent arrests... The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....? Fingers and questions should be raised at those responsible in the Thai Police ... And heads should roll...!!! The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....? And who says it isn't? Social media. People emotionally involved with large FB followings. What turned my thinking around was the initial narrative, " Police planted evidence..." that then- after the verdict- became police messed with lab results ( and the police lab is ISO accredited - another lie put out that it wasn't) So police planted DNA evidence, or otheriwse created a false chain and then either were incompetent or faked test results. Is that what you're arguing happened? From the above Post #1: "No mention was made of what a great relief it was that two psychopathic killers were no longer on the loose, and the beaches of Koh Tao were once again safe to enjoy." Since the two murders last September 2014 and the arrest of the 2 now convicted of those crimes, no one has fortunately similarly been bludgeoned to death and left on the beaches of Koh Tao. When that has ever been mentioned before on these pages, the response has generally been: Those psychopathic killers still on the loose are clever and just biding their time. Headslap. You really think that is evidence of their guilt? Well every natural and accidental death since ( some completely fabricated even) has been used in attempts to exonerate them, so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I'm amazed that the documentary did not mention (and this forum seems to have forgotten) the Thai taxi driver who was forced by the police to give a statement against the two lads, under threat of pain and all sorts of other threats. The guy refused which shows that there are some Thais prepared to do the right thing - or rather, are not prepared to do the wrong thing. For me this is a big thing, the fact that the police felt the need to manufacture 'evidence'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 A picture is worth....( credit to AleG) Running man and Zaw Lin at his arrest a couple of weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I'm amazed that the documentary did not mention (and this forum seems to have forgotten) the Thai taxi driver who was forced by the police to give a statement against the two lads, under threat of pain and all sorts of other threats. The guy refused which shows that there are some Thais prepared to do the right thing - or rather, are not prepared to do the wrong thing. For me this is a big thing, the fact that the police felt the need to manufacture 'evidence'. Are you sure this happened? Are you sure it wasn't part of a crafted narrative- because just about everything on this thread, and the dozen otheres in support of the innocence of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo is based on social media assertions. Then when lazy reporters ( and forum news teams..) start to quote fb pages, you know something stinks. When producers of documentaries are pals with quasi legal types putting out memes about footprints that never existed, you know the BS is piling on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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