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Can a 70 year old marry a 17 year old? Famous lawyer gives his verdict on Facebook


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I've actually seen worse. Not that long ago, I witnessed a German 92 year old living with an 18 year old here in Udon. If that wasn't bad enough, they had already been together for 2 years. I heard he died just shortly after, but I'm still baffled and speechless about it, like <deleted> ?

(Yeah, I'm not joking)

Another couple I met in the very same village is a 86 year old (also German) being married to a 24 year old. While it's less controversial legally, biologically and neurologically, I can't help using the exact same words again, <deleted> ?

It's just not right...

Jealous? biggrin.pngcheesy.gifcheesy.gifwhistling.gifwai.gif

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If you don't agree with Asian culture go back to the biggoted western ways. If the couple are happy. What is the problem?

If you were to ask let's say 10.000 17 year old girls around the world if they would be happy with a 70 year old husband I think 9.999 would say no. but of course i'm just a biggoted western 555....

however, i don't care how total strangers feel (happy or sad)... 555

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Can I add a rather more personal note than I think most of the previous posters are able. I am 73. My wife is 31. I was divorced in 1998, lived alone and unhappy for 14 years. Met my wife in 2012, we lived together for 3 years, to assure compatibility, married March 2015. Both very happy. I give my wife a better life style than she has ever enjoyed before - two bedroom house, swimming pool, A/C's, hot water in bathroom. When I die, which is almost certain to be well before her, I shall leave her a rich (by Thai standards) woman. To those of you who criticise - I can only say "Mind your own damned business". Good luck to them both.

Exactly so.

Couldn't agree more.

If no laws are broken, then its no-one's business but the newlyweds.

l knew a white couple in PNG, she was 65(looked younger)& he was a long haired git of 20.

They seemed very happy & no-one forced either of them to stay together.

l have had both younger & older girlfriends, much younger & much older.

To all you, "not righters" & moralisers, Butt Out, lts got jack sh!t to do with you.

Congratulations and I sincerely mean that.

Back to topic using your relationship as an example: There is a lifetime of difference between a 31yo woman and 17yo juvenile child.

Yep, I am going to moralize and call a bs, especially on examples above.

I really and I mean really have nothing against a pimple faced 17 year old girl fancying an old geezer. Same the other way around. I think government should not put their nose into people's lives unless there is abuse going on.

However, this wedding.... I dunno. Money is being exchanged. Was this wedding girl's idea or her parents? Yep, the money part bothers the heck out of me. I call this slavery. Sorry.

C'mon, it's called Sin sod and occurs at every, yes every Thai wedding....seems to be the custom in Lao, Vietnam and Cambodia as well!! wink.pngthumbsup.gifwai.gif

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Yep, I am going to moralize and call a bs, especially on examples above.

I really and I mean really have nothing against a pimple faced 17 year old girl fancying an old geezer. Same the other way around. I think government should not put their nose into people's lives unless there is abuse going on.

However, this wedding.... I dunno. Money is being exchanged. Was this wedding girl's idea or her parents? Yep, the money part bothers the heck out of me. I call this slavery. Sorry.

You just arrived here, did you? Money is always changing hands at rural marriages in Thailand, and often city marriages as well. Anything else is considered an insult to the girl's family. It also has practical purpose, helping to finance the wedding which can be an expensive event, typically with 500-1,000 guests, and helping to establishing the newly weds' new life, although this probably isn't the case here. Often nowadays however, the money is for show only, or is given to the couple after the wedding. I've seen numerous examples of the money being invested in a car later, which is crashed into a ditch by the drunk husband after couple of months.

It's also tradition that guests bring envelopes with money as gifts. Many places, those envelopes bear the name of the giver, and the names and amounts are catalogued, so that the family will know how much to give in return when a member of that family is getting married.

All these financial transactions have been a part of the financing of farms and villages in Thailand, and although they often aren't needed anymore, people like to keep traditions alive, just like we do in western countries with our obsolete traditions.

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Just to be clear, it was (initially) Thais who were questioning the legality, and perhaps the morality, of this marriage.

As with most things here, the "law" is subject to manipulation, interpretation and "nudging".
Section 1448. A marriage can occur only when the man and woman have finished their seventeenth year of age. But the Court may, in case of having appropriate reason, permit them to marry before attaining such age.
Prior to 1935, I think third wives could be purchased being of any age.
Betrothal section:
Section 1435. Minimum Age for Marriage
A betrothal can be effected only when the man and the women have completed seventeenth year of age.
The betrothal contrary to the provision of paragraph one is void.
Section 1436. Consent Required if Party is a Minor
If a minor will conclude a betrothal, the consent of the following persons is required:
his or her parents, in case both of his her father and mother are still alive;
his or her parent, in case his or her father or mother died, or is in condition of state of being unable to give consent, or is under the circumstances that make the minor unable to ask for such consent;
his or her adopter, in case the minor is an adopted child
his or her guardian, in case there is no person giving consent under (1), (2) and (3), or such person is deprived of parental power.
A betrothal concluded by the minor without the said consent is voidable.
Section 1437. Khongman and Sinsod
Betrothal is not valid until the man gives or transfers the property which is Khongman to the woman as evidence that the woman after the betrothal has taken place.
The Khongman shall become the property of the woman after the betrothal has taken place. Sinsod is property given on the part of the man to the parents, adopter of guardian of the woman, as the case may be, in return of the woman agreeing to marry. If the marriage does not take place causing mainly from the woman or on account of any circumstances that make the woman responsible therefore and make the marriage unsuitable for the man or make the man unable to marry that woman, the man may claim the return of the Sinsod.
The provisions of Section 412 to Section 418 of this Code on undue enrichment shall apply to the return of the Khongman or Sinsod under this Chapter, mutatis mutandis.
Section 1438 No Compulsory Performance for Marriage
Betrothal does not give rise to an action for compulsory performance of the marriage. An agreement to pay a penalty in case of breach of the betrothal agreement is void.
Section 1439. Breach of Agreement to Marry
After the betrothal has taken place if either party commits a breach of the betrothal agreement, such party shall be liable to make compensation. In case the woman commits a breach of the betrothal agreement, the Khongman shall also be returned to the man.
Section 1440. Compensation for Breach
Compensation may be claimed as follows:
for injury caused to the body or reputation of the man or woman;
for appropriate expenses or debt incurred in good faith by the betrothed , his or her parents or a person acting in the capacity of his or her parents in preparation for the marriage;
for damage suffered by the man or woman through having take appropriate measures affecting his or her property or other affairs relating to his or her occupation or earning in expectation of the marriage.
In case where the woman is entitled to the compensation, the Court may decide that the Khongman which has become her property is the whole or a part of compensation she will receive, or the Court may order for payment of the compensation without regard to Khongman that has become property of the woman.
Section 1441. Death before Marriage
Where one of the betrothal dies before the marriage, there shall be no claim for compensation. As for the Khongman or Sinsod, it need not be returned by the woman or on the part of the woman, irrespective if the death of either party.
Section 1442. Event that Makes Woman unsuitable for Marriage
In case where there is an essential event happening to the betrothed woman that make the marriage to the woman unsuitable, the man is entitled to renounce the betrothal agreement and the woman shall return the Khongman to the man.
Section 1443. Event that Makes Man unsuitable for Marriage
In case where there is an essential event happening to the betrothed man that makes marriage to the man unsuitable, the woman is entitled to renounce the betrothal agreement and the Khongman need not to be returned to the man.
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In fact people as young as 15 can marry if the parents agree but the matter may need to be ratified by a court so it is clearly understood that both sides agree. Permission in such cases might be given when a pregnancy is involved.

I would've though a lengthy jail sentence would be given if a pregnancy was involved in a 15 year old's marriage...

The legal age of consent is 15.

The authorities in Thailand are mostly lenient towards the fathers of too young mothers if he marries the girl and takes care of her and the kid. In any case, that's a much better alternative for the child than having no money and a father in prison.

It's important to understand also that less than 50 years ago, it was very common for girls in rural Thailand to marry and get children around the age of 15, and the husband was very often much older than her, like between 25 and 40. There were many advantages to solutions like that, not least the fact that he was more mature and had the financial means to take care of his wife. Don't expect Thailand to suddenly follow our western norms in all areas. It's a sovereign country after all.

The moralizers should also keep - or gain - an historical perspective in all this. Until the early 1900s the age of consent (whether to sex or to marriage) in almost all 'Western' countries was in the range 10-12. None were over 13.

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I've actually seen worse. Not that long ago, I witnessed a German 92 year old living with an 18 year old here in Udon. If that wasn't bad enough, they had already been together for 2 years. I heard he died just shortly after, but I'm still baffled and speechless about it, like <deleted> ?

(Yeah, I'm not joking)

Another couple I met in the very same village is a 86 year old (also German) being married to a 24 year old. While it's less controversial legally, biologically and neurologically, I can't help using the exact same words again, <deleted> ?

It's just not right...

In your mind this is wrong, so please tell us what "Your Law Book" would state the minimum and maximum ages for both genders who would require your approval for marriage.

Please send a copy to the media magnet Rupert Murdoch who obviously doesn't own TV.

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70 and 17 is apparently not to the liking of many TV's opinion makers.
What about 86 and 26 ??
Would that be acceptable in anglosaxon communities ?

Or is it only acceptable when the bride;
""Asked why they had married, she told Huffington Post Live: "Well for me it meant more security, knowing that I am the one for him."
""

you can Google Hugh and Crystel Hefner, in the U.S.A.

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Can I add a rather more personal note than I think most of the previous posters are able. I am 73. My wife is 31. I was divorced in 1998, lived alone and unhappy for 14 years. Met my wife in 2012, we lived together for 3 years, to assure compatibility, married March 2015. Both very happy. I give my wife a better life style than she has ever enjoyed before - two bedroom house, swimming pool, A/C's, hot water in bathroom. When I die, which is almost certain to be well before her, I shall leave her a rich (by Thai standards) woman. To those of you who criticise - I can only say "Mind your own damned business". Good luck to them both.

When you die, I'm pretty sure she'll be in no rush to look for some bloke in his 70's, but probably a Thai bloke around her age.

Wombat says it all. He bought his wife.

Some think this is ok.Personally I find it repulsive.

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Can I add a rather more personal note than I think most of the previous posters are able. I am 73. My wife is 31. I was divorced in 1998, lived alone and unhappy for 14 years. Met my wife in 2012, we lived together for 3 years, to assure compatibility, married March 2015. Both very happy. I give my wife a better life style than she has ever enjoyed before - two bedroom house, swimming pool, A/C's, hot water in bathroom. When I die, which is almost certain to be well before her, I shall leave her a rich (by Thai standards) woman. To those of you who criticise - I can only say "Mind your own damned business". Good luck to them both.

Exactly so.

Couldn't agree more.

If no laws are broken, then its no-one's business but the newlyweds.

l knew a white couple in PNG, she was 65(looked younger)& he was a long haired git of 20.

They seemed very happy & no-one forced either of them to stay together.

l have had both younger & older girlfriends, much younger & much older.

To all you, "not righters" & moralisers, Butt Out, lts got jack sh!t to do with you.

Congratulations and I sincerely mean that.

Back to topic using your relationship as an example: There is a lifetime of difference between a 31yo woman and 17yo juvenile child.

Yes the 30 year old has been working for 13 years, now is past it in most Thai men's eyes, so looks for an old rich gullible foreigner.
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TIT so forget any pretence about the law, money trumps everything.

n

TIT? So it wouldn't happen in the civilized west?

Google a bloke called Hugh Hefner, he is a lot older than this young Thai bloke and does three (white girls) at a time. Doesn't pay sinsot though.

TIT

Yes Hefner marries women much younger than himself but they are older than this 17 year old and know what they're doing only too well.

Does this 17 year old or has she been ' encouraged ', and I'm being polite, by her parents ? What's the bet the man contacted mum and dad and worked everything out before the girl was even included ?

No old Hugh takes naked photos of 16 year olds ( with mums permission) and publishes them in an American stickmag, nice of you to defend the farang while attacking the Thai bloke.

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everyone gets morally outraged about this. this is nothing, you want to get upset about something get upset about all the single mothers in thailand who have no way to get no support from the father. who gives a f### about marriage and age gaps any more? way i see it if the 17 year old is consenting and as long as any kids they may have are supported then everything is just peachy.

I agree with you to an extent, but the lawyer also added it would be legal if she was 15 and he raped her first(as it would be for a minor)....still just peachy?

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

I am probably classed as one of the "moral crusaders" but there is a world of difference between a 23 year old and 17 year old.....something just sticks in the craw about that.

And the fact that despite being common in Thailand, the sin sot feels like a purchase(though I think that with all marriages) of a 17 year old girl.

And my view is probably warped by being a father and not wanting my daughter to marry until she is atleast 45

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

You obviously don't care what people think.

Would you say your relationship is a business one or one of love?

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

You should have grown up by now.
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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

You obviously don't care what people think.

Would you say your relationship is a business one or one of love?

Well we love each other. We do everything together, we travel together, we're currently living on the family farm with other adults & 4 children while our 2-storey house 30 minutes drive away is under construction, we provide for the children's education and are developing the farm away from rice & cassava so that life there is more sustainable for the long-term ... Does my money play a role in all that? No doubt, it helps to smooth the way but he's very clear that he would love me even without it ...

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TIT so forget any pretence about the law, money trumps everything.

n

TIT? So it wouldn't happen in the civilized west?

Google a bloke called Hugh Hefner, he is a lot older than this young Thai bloke and does three (white girls) at a time. Doesn't pay sinsot though.

TIT

Yes Hefner marries women much younger than himself but they are older than this 17 year old and know what they're doing only too well.

Does this 17 year old or has she been ' encouraged ', and I'm being polite, by her parents ? What's the bet the man contacted mum and dad and worked everything out before the girl was even included ?

No old Hugh takes naked photos of 16 year olds ( with mums permission) and publishes them in an American stickmag, nice of you to defend the farang while attacking the Thai bloke.

I think you'll find he doesn't anymore.

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I've actually seen worse. Not that long ago, I witnessed a German 92 year old living with an 18 year old here in Udon. If that wasn't bad enough, they had already been together for 2 years. I heard he died just shortly after, but I'm still baffled and speechless about it, like <deleted> ?

(Yeah, I'm not joking)

Another couple I met in the very same village is a 86 year old (also German) being married to a 24 year old. While it's less controversial legally, biologically and neurologically, I can't help using the exact same words again, <deleted> ?

It's just not right...

Why is it not right?

It may be against your moral principles, and against what you have been taught in the west, but that doesn't say it isn't right here.

Marriage isn't only about sex........................wink.png

It's a complete myth that this kind of marriage is acceptable in Thai society, or that huge age gaps are the norm. The attitude of Thai society towards large age gaps very much mirrors that of the west. I'm not ageist, but this is a common thing I hear westerners say and it's simply not true. People have exactly the same prejudices towards big age gaps here as they do back home, it's just that most foreigners don't speak the language and therefore don't hear Thai people's opinions. Thai people may appear less judgmental because most tend not to get into serious debates about such things , but the off the cuff comments among friends are exactly the same as you hear back home. The large majority of Thais marry someone of their own age of thereabouts (within 5 years of their age), as they do in the west.

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

Is gay marriage legal here? It isn't back home(Australia)....but should be. It's amazing how backwards Australia are in that respect.

Just asking out of curiosity, probably could have googled it but I am on here anyway.

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I've actually seen worse. Not that long ago, I witnessed a German 92 year old living with an 18 year old here in Udon. If that wasn't bad enough, they had already been together for 2 years. I heard he died just shortly after, but I'm still baffled and speechless about it, like <deleted> ?

(Yeah, I'm not joking)

Another couple I met in the very same village is a 86 year old (also German) being married to a 24 year old. While it's less controversial legally, biologically and neurologically, I can't help using the exact same words again, <deleted> ?

It's just not right...

Maybe she was 'caring' for him, lots of older people have a paid carer.

She was obviously getting something from him and vice versa

We weren't a party to what happened behind closed doors, it could all be very innocent

I don't understand why people don't mind their own business

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

Is gay marriage legal here? It isn't back home(Australia)....but should be. It's amazing how backwards Australia are in that respect.

Just asking out of curiosity, probably could have googled it but I am on here anyway.

Not recognized officially here but at village level, they have no difficulties with it. And neither does Buddhism ("Marriage is for 2 people who love each other."). Half the village turned up for ours and we laughed and sweated our way thru the morning as the old man who lead the ceremony mumbled his prayers and the old ladies kept on correcting him ... A marriage ceremony is about social recognition: a public declaration of commitment and acceptance by the community. We have that in spades here, and nowhere we go in Thailand from BKK to village do we encounter a problem.

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I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

I sincerely wish you all the best. But take care as in 30 years of living here I have heard of and seen hundreds of stories where it all ends up sour.

The relevance wasn't so much if it was a gay bar but whether it was one where you pay for sex.

BTW, a tell tale sign would be if you were asked for sin sot(dowry) or not as this would be a ridiculous thing to ask for ebtween same sex couples.

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70 year old marrying a 17 year old?

Reminds me of when Peter Sellers married Britt Eckland. He had a heart attack shortly afterwards.

He britt off more than he could screw!

I'll be off, Taxi's waiting...

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