New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[nontabury]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Given his posts on other topics, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd like UKIP.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Which is why I keep saying (but nobody takes me seriously) that he is TRYING to encourage Brexit votes. Nothing else explains the OTT arrogant, offensive comments!

It's simple,he is arrogant. He'll have easily fitted in with the so-called elite here in Thailand. Proberbly thinks he's one of them.

[Grouse]

Much as I dislike the cost and corruption of the EU, I agree with Sandyf above - the EU has done far more for workers' rights than any Brit. govt. would ever have allowed, left to their own devices .

Tell that to the French strikers.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Do you know what they're striking about? They already have MUCH better conditions than English workers

[nontabury]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

So, just for our amusement, please tell us who you rate? Corbyn? Thatcher? Go on, give as a laugh! How many terms did Major win? Blair? Your criteria for success must be pretty demanding.

Oh! Wait a minute, they're both pro Remain! That's why they are failures ( unlike Redwood and Gove - he's a bit odd)

Both Blair nor major are fit to even wipe Thatchers bum , they are not good enough , i wont even bother listing what they did to Britain as we all know , so just keep on telling yourself how wonderful they were , but your in a very small club and it gets smaller as time goes on .

"Both Blair nor major"

Did what to Britain?

Thatcher destroyed British society and cut manufacturing from 25% of GDP to 10%

I did not say that either Major or Blair were wonderful. But they did less damage than Thatcher. (Who's dead, in case you hadn't noticed).

You sir, are so ignorant that you must be a Brexiteer!

Well if i am so ignorant ,i have lots of people just like me as i get lots of likes , funny ,not seen one like on any of your posts , you must be the only bright one in the village or maybe the only one in the village , and we all know what most villages have one of

Brilliant. Although it does make me very angry to realise my hard earned taxes went towards paying for His superior education.

What a waste of money and resources!?

Yes, brilliant indeed!

Such mordant humour. Caustic, acerbic, sardonic even! And the satire! I love satire! Nearly as good as Benny Hill!

But I digress

Yes I was fortunate to go up to university when only 4% of school leavers did so. All fees paid. And board & lodgings. Even beer money!

I revealed which university but I will not reveal which college. Semi-conductor physics. Six years including post grad! All free!

I then made chips for a living. Did reasonably well. Probably paid more taxes than the pair of you together if that makes you feel better.

Look, I know you have a chip on your shoulder (ha! Chip! An ASIC maybe?) but a university education is a great thing. Free in most of EU. And Scotland. And Wales.

Pity it was undermined by new labour trying to get young people off the unemployed list after the nasty party gutted most manufacturing. A first degree from a UK university is now not worth much. In fact, going back to Thatcher's bum, there's suitable paper for you!

So, be happy! Your taxes were not wasted after all! Actually, I'm probably older than you. I first went to university in 1972.....

How do you do it Grouse? Wrong,Wrong,Wrong on ever point. So yes my hard earned taxes were wasted on Your education.

[Grouse]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

So, just for our amusement, please tell us who you rate? Corbyn? Thatcher? Go on, give as a laugh! How many terms did Major win? Blair? Your criteria for success must be pretty demanding.

Oh! Wait a minute, they're both pro Remain! That's why they are failures ( unlike Redwood and Gove - he's a bit odd)

Both Blair nor major are fit to even wipe Thatchers bum , they are not good enough , i wont even bother listing what they did to Britain as we all know , so just keep on telling yourself how wonderful they were , but your in a very small club and it gets smaller as time goes on .

"Both Blair nor major"

Did what to Britain?

Thatcher destroyed British society and cut manufacturing from 25% of GDP to 10%

I did not say that either Major or Blair were wonderful. But they did less damage than Thatcher. (Who's dead, in case you hadn't noticed).

You sir, are so ignorant that you must be a Brexiteer!

Well if i am so ignorant ,i have lots of people just like me as i get lots of likes , funny ,not seen one like on any of your posts , you must be the only bright one in the village or maybe the only one in the village , and we all know what most villages have one of

I wish you lots of likes! There are indeed many like you!

Frankly I don't give a damn.

Oh but you do ,or you wouldnt be posting so often ,

Hilarious! You really don't get it do you?

I really don't care what your opinion is. Really!

I do care what happens though

It saddens and angers me that there are so many, uninformed, poorly educated fools holding fort. It's a kind of sick voyeurism really. I'm just aghast!

I'm 99% sure that you are an agent provocateur.

The rude, arrogant posts make no sense otherwise.

Kind thought!

But no, I really am that arrogant, that snobbish. Howevet, I am not a narcissist as one contributor had it. I don't have the legs for it!

Just between you and me I anger quite quickly. It's a VERY important decision. It won't affect me greatly, I'm 62 now and had a very fulfilling life. But the wrong decision could and probably will affect my greater family. I'm thinking about trans European career opportunities, the social justice of the EU and the peace we've enjoyed. I worry about trans Atlantic drift to American "values"

And then we have these startlingly stupid comments about John Major completely ignoring his excellent piece on Andrew Marr. I should keep my temper under control but sometimes let fly with both barrels! Sometimes, a bit of heat is a good thing in an empassioned debate don't you think?

Not everyone has your ability to weigh the pros and cons in a rational way. That's fine, but when they start to force their point of view from very insecure ground, I will push back ?

Just because it does not agree with your train of thought, it does not make people uneducated/stupid or whatever else you care to call people. People may not be as educated you but that should make no bit of difference...who are you to be-little them? At 62 you should know better. I used to work with people like yourself when I did my full service in the military. We called them officers.....educated idiots...not that I am saying you are one because I have no right to, just the same as you have no right. I have earned the right to vote which way I (as have others) like by defending my country and make sure " people who earn more that Cameron" can do so. I you dont like what people are saying then don't answer..I tried that with your posts, but getting fed up of seeing it now

You're not listening to me.

I have made clear that voting one way or the other or agreeing with either position does not make someone a fool. However this is a hugely important decision and not to be taken lightly. It angers me that people take strong positions when they clearly have not weighed the facts. It's a question of BALANCE. I have been quite open about my misgivings including democracy and excessive migration.

It also depresses me that so many people are so gullible. Why is that? You have any ideas?

[Grouse]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

So, just for our amusement, please tell us who you rate? Corbyn? Thatcher? Go on, give as a laugh! How many terms did Major win? Blair? Your criteria for success must be pretty demanding.

Oh! Wait a minute, they're both pro Remain! That's why they are failures ( unlike Redwood and Gove - he's a bit odd)

Both Blair nor major are fit to even wipe Thatchers bum , they are not good enough , i wont even bother listing what they did to Britain as we all know , so just keep on telling yourself how wonderful they were , but your in a very small club and it gets smaller as time goes on .

"Both Blair nor major"

Did what to Britain?

Thatcher destroyed British society and cut manufacturing from 25% of GDP to 10%

I did not say that either Major or Blair were wonderful. But they did less damage than Thatcher. (Who's dead, in case you hadn't noticed).

You sir, are so ignorant that you must be a Brexiteer!

Well if i am so ignorant ,i have lots of people just like me as i get lots of likes , funny ,not seen one like on any of your posts , you must be the only bright one in the village or maybe the only one in the village , and we all know what most villages have one of

I wish you lots of likes! There are indeed many like you!

Frankly I don't give a damn.

Oh but you do ,or you wouldnt be posting so often ,

Hilarious! You really don't get it do you?

I really don't care what your opinion is. Really!

I do care what happens though

It saddens and angers me that there are so many, uninformed, poorly educated fools holding fort. It's a kind of sick voyeurism really. I'm just aghast!

I'm 99% sure that you are an agent provocateur.

The rude, arrogant posts make no sense otherwise.

Kind thought!

But no, I really am that arrogant, that snobbish. Howevet, I am not a narcissist as one contributor had it. I don't have the legs for it!

Just between you and me I anger quite quickly. It's a VERY important decision. It won't affect me greatly, I'm 62 now and had a very fulfilling life. But the wrong decision could and probably will affect my greater family. I'm thinking about trans European career opportunities, the social justice of the EU and the peace we've enjoyed. I worry about trans Atlantic drift to American "values"

And then we have these startlingly stupid comments about John Major completely ignoring his excellent piece on Andrew Marr. I should keep my temper under control but sometimes let fly with both barrels! Sometimes, a bit of heat is a good thing in an empassioned debate don't you think?

Not everyone has your ability to weigh the pros and cons in a rational way. That's fine, but when they start to force their point of view from very insecure ground, I will push back ?

As I said, an agent provocateur that is best ignored.

Up to you. Nobody is forcing you to react. But I reiterate. I mean what I say.....

[Grouse]

A distorted viewpoint obviously biased to your views on the EU.

Conditions of membership are exactly that, it doesn't matter which club you want to join.

And your posts are not distorted by bias ?

Of course they are - mine certainly are.

It is pointless to any debate to simply accuse 'the other side' of bias - that is inherent in any discussion.

I can respect an opposing view when it is presented sensibly and rationally. Suggesting that Britain cannot stand its own (which it will not be doing anyway) without the EU is neither.

I am very happy to say that being part of the EEC has brought some benefits to the UK. It is not all negative. However, the club has changed, and the rules with it, making it a club I no longer wish to be a member of.

You are quite right, bias is human nature but there is a fine line between emphasis and distortion.

Conditions of membership are what they are, you accept them or you don't, no one is insisting anything.

If for example, you joined a golf club that was men only and then a few years down the road the committee voted to allow female members, something you objected to. You would be quite entitled to be outraged but you have to abide by the democracy of the committee so you are free to leave the club of your own volition. You would be well aware of the other clubs available, their membership policies and fees. In other words you would be possession of all facts necessary to make an informed decision.

Therein lies the problem with this referendum, no one has the facts pertaining to the cost of joining another club or membership policies. Unfortunately none of the campaigners will stick to the facts of the issue in hand and attempt to enlighten the general public, both sides of the fence try to push a hypothesis based on weak assumptions.

My views have not been influenced by anyone but based on real events, anyone that needs a reminder should read Brewsters post No 266. I should also point out that in 1990 I was responsible for implementing an EU directive that was introduced to try and prevent unnecessary deaths but at the time it was perceived as nothing more than interfering bureaucracy. You only have to see some of the threads on this forum to see how hypocritical some are, they criticise the Thais for what was common place in the UK a few years back.

Immigration is an important issue but at the end of the day it is all about money. World trade will in due course be controlled by large trading blocs. The ASEAN countries have taken this on board and are heading for their own single market. People should remember what happened to corner shops when supermarkets came along.

The UK public can vote to leave the EU and the government could choose to stop immigration completely, but without economic growth the NHS will still be under pressure and there will still be problems with housing,benefits,pensions and unemployment. It really is all about the financial well being of the country.

Wise words. I appreciate the balance which is quite rare on TV?

[Grouse]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

I try to keep them at least at arms length

[Grouse]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

[Grouse]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Given his posts on other topics, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd like UKIP.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Well spotted sir! I am indeed anti Muslim which does not sit comfortably with some of my other views. I have listed the reasons why. Personally, I do not advocate anything drastic. Just ban fancy dress and halal meat.

[chiang mai]

I'm sorry to interrupt this "beat up Grouse" session, let me just say:

I think it's hugely telling that the Brexit folks never want to talk about the numbers, not even their own and that's really surprising to me, I think maybe this is because they can't.

What this says is that whilst Team Brexit is happy to say all numbers put forward by the Remain group are rubbish and nonsense, they really don't understand the impacts of what they really mean.

OK cool, don't say you weren't warned and don't come bleating later about exchange rates, increased mortgage rates, reduced value of pensions (including drawdowns) and so on.

EDIT to add: Cameron exposes six untruths about Brexit put forward by Boris/Gove.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/eu-referendum-new-orb-poll-leave-brexit-campaign-closing-gap/.

[Caps]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Given his posts on other topics, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd like UKIP.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Well spotted sir! I am indeed anti Muslim which does not sit comfortably with some of my other views. I have listed the reasons why. Personally, I do not advocate anything drastic. Just ban fancy dress and halal meat.

I can agree with you there

[i claudius]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

Don't know about being won with American money,everything was on lend lease ,in fact Britain only just finished paying America back the money a few years ago ,Germany got let off ,that's why we were in such a bad way financially

[Grouse]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Given his posts on other topics, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd like UKIP.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Which is why I keep saying (but nobody takes me seriously) that he is TRYING to encourage Brexit votes. Nothing else explains the OTT arrogant, offensive comments!

It's simple,he is arrogant. He'll have easily fitted in with the so-called elite here in Thailand. Proberbly thinks he's one of them.

Elite? Thailand? Don't make me laugh!

TG have a VIP check in desk! What are they thinking?

[Grouse]

John Major , a failed MP a failed politician , like Blair ,the more he tells us to stay the more i think we should leave .

So, just for our amusement, please tell us who you rate? Corbyn? Thatcher? Go on, give as a laugh! How many terms did Major win? Blair? Your criteria for success must be pretty demanding.

Oh! Wait a minute, they're both pro Remain! That's why they are failures ( unlike Redwood and Gove - he's a bit odd)

Both Blair nor major are fit to even wipe Thatchers bum , they are not good enough , i wont even bother listing what they did to Britain as we all know , so just keep on telling yourself how wonderful they were , but your in a very small club and it gets smaller as time goes on .

"Both Blair nor major"

Did what to Britain?

Thatcher destroyed British society and cut manufacturing from 25% of GDP to 10%

I did not say that either Major or Blair were wonderful. But they did less damage than Thatcher. (Who's dead, in case you hadn't noticed).

You sir, are so ignorant that you must be a Brexiteer!

Well if i am so ignorant ,i have lots of people just like me as i get lots of likes , funny ,not seen one like on any of your posts , you must be the only bright one in the village or maybe the only one in the village , and we all know what most villages have one of

Brilliant. Although it does make me very angry to realise my hard earned taxes went towards paying for His superior education.

What a waste of money and resources!?

Yes, brilliant indeed!

Such mordant humour. Caustic, acerbic, sardonic even! And the satire! I love satire! Nearly as good as Benny Hill!

But I digress

Yes I was fortunate to go up to university when only 4% of school leavers did so. All fees paid. And board & lodgings. Even beer money!

I revealed which university but I will not reveal which college. Semi-conductor physics. Six years including post grad! All free!

I then made chips for a living. Did reasonably well. Probably paid more taxes than the pair of you together if that makes you feel better.

Look, I know you have a chip on your shoulder (ha! Chip! An ASIC maybe?) but a university education is a great thing. Free in most of EU. And Scotland. And Wales.

Pity it was undermined by new labour trying to get young people off the unemployed list after the nasty party gutted most manufacturing. A first degree from a UK university is now not worth much. In fact, going back to Thatcher's bum, there's suitable paper for you!

So, be happy! Your taxes were not wasted after all! Actually, I'm probably older than you. I first went to university in 1972.....

How do you do it Grouse? Wrong,Wrong,Wrong on ever point. So yes my hard earned taxes were wasted on Your education.

As I say you REALLY don't get it do you?

Are you going to vote?

It's the ultimate binary question. As I told you before there are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary and those who don't ?

[Grouse]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

Ain't you relocated to Greece yet...?

I have places here, Edinburgh and Switzerland (Canton Valais - where they know a thing or two about referenda! [they're not called plebiscites for nothing]). I have no interest in Greece (well named).

[Grouse]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Have you "personally" read the Actual policies of UKIP,or have you formed an opinion based on other peoples interpretation of these policies?

I have read their literature online. Farage is a reasonable bloke in the pub. But have you heard the supporters? Dear God

[Grouse]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

Don't know about being won with American money,everything was on lend lease ,in fact Britain only just finished paying America back the money a few years ago ,Germany got let off ,that's why we were in such a bad way financially

Again please read the FACTS. What was repaid and what was not

WW2 did break us

But what about the Marshall plan? Good? I think so. Remember the iron curtain descending? What were the priorities?

[arjunadawn]

Surprise. Surprise! MPs are already pre floating a trial balloon that a Brexit...well, it doesn't really mean 'exit.' Parsing the referandum language that doesn't appear to elaborate on market, etc, MPs state they've a majority of pro EU MPs to basically screw over the people.

As Bilderberg elites meet in Germany to shape their despotism UK MPs are pretty much making clear that it's not over till...well, it's just not over if the vote is LEAVE. What's next? Unexpected military mobilization? Terror attack necessitating Remain? Total monetary injury? Some other factor whereby the people scream "REMAIN?"

I'm uncertain most can link below so I'll excerpt briefly. Folks have no real idea how far they're really F__d already!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627618/Pro-EU-MPs-plot-guerilla-war-BLOCK-Brexit-rules-immigration-trade-voters-decide-quit-EU.html

MailOnline Byline/Intro follows:

"Pro-EU MPs plot guerilla war to BLOCK Brexit from rules on immigration and trade even if voters decide to quit the EU"

"Whatever the result on June 23 most MPs have campaigned for Remain"

"Claimed they could use Commons majority to stay in the Single Market"

"Defying the results of the referendum would provoke a constitutional row"

"Completing Brexit will need a series of laws to be repealed or passed"

"It means there will be a series of Commons votes as the process develops"

[Mosha]

A distorted viewpoint obviously biased to your views on the EU.

Conditions of membership are exactly that, it doesn't matter which club you want to join.

And your posts are not distorted by bias ?

Of course they are - mine certainly are.

It is pointless to any debate to simply accuse 'the other side' of bias - that is inherent in any discussion.

I can respect an opposing view when it is presented sensibly and rationally. Suggesting that Britain cannot stand its own (which it will not be doing anyway) without the EU is neither.

I am very happy to say that being part of the EEC has brought some benefits to the UK. It is not all negative. However, the club has changed, and the rules with it, making it a club I no longer wish to be a member of.

You are quite right, bias is human nature but there is a fine line between emphasis and distortion.

Conditions of membership are what they are, you accept them or you don't, no one is insisting anything.

If for example, you joined a golf club that was men only and then a few years down the road the committee voted to allow female members, something you objected to. You would be quite entitled to be outraged but you have to abide by the democracy of the committee so you are free to leave the club of your own volition. You would be well aware of the other clubs available, their membership policies and fees. In other words you would be possession of all facts necessary to make an informed decision.

Therein lies the problem with this referendum, no one has the facts pertaining to the cost of joining another club or membership policies. Unfortunately none of the campaigners will stick to the facts of the issue in hand and attempt to enlighten the general public, both sides of the fence try to push a hypothesis based on weak assumptions.

My views have not been influenced by anyone but based on real events, anyone that needs a reminder should read Brewsters post No 266. I should also point out that in 1990 I was responsible for implementing an EU directive that was introduced to try and prevent unnecessary deaths but at the time it was perceived as nothing more than interfering bureaucracy. You only have to see some of the threads on this forum to see how hypocritical some are, they criticise the Thais for what was common place in the UK a few years back.

Immigration is an important issue but at the end of the day it is all about money. World trade will in due course be controlled by large trading blocs. The ASEAN countries have taken this on board and are heading for their own single market. People should remember what happened to corner shops when supermarkets came along.

The UK public can vote to leave the EU and the government could choose to stop immigration completely, but without economic growth the NHS will still be under pressure and there will still be problems with housing,benefits,pensions and unemployment. It really is all about the financial well being of the country.

We agree on many things - that perhaps should not be such a surprise - especially your last sentence.

Where we maybe differ is on how we view the same things.

The golf club analogy is excellent. I would actually leave the club if I felt strongly enough about my principles. Only then would I look for a new club and where I could play my golf. If something is fundamentally wrong to me then I would step away first and look for solutions later. As much as I would like a gilt-edged soft landing with water-tight guarantees, I know this is not possible.

I don't actually agree about the large trading blocs and these often create more problems than they solve. Thailand's handling of the ASEAN 'integration' is a classic example. Trade is about supply and demand and if demand exists for supermarkets rather than corner shops then society will evolve. There will always be opportunities for those with a skill/product that can be delivered cost effectively backed up by quality service.

I may be a lone voice but I think the one opportunity we missed was to adopt the EURO. Not full monetary union, just the currency. That in itself would have helped tourism and trade with Europe.

Re the Euro, you can't cherry pick. I think we'd be forking out more.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Mosha]

Sliced bread is an abomination. Should be illegal. Cameron should be publically flogged for putting the country at risk because of a few nasty party back benchers.

You freely admit voting UKIP. That rag tag bunch of xenophobic psychos? Poor you? Have you sought help? I guess it must be hard for you....

Xenophobics, next you'll be coming out with racist/ bigots. Well that's what those,who are loosing the argument resort to calling people. A question to you Grouse, one of the main concerns,which will certainly have a bearing on the result is open borders. Most of the population are against the present EU policy of facilitating the movement of economic migrants across the EU. Many of those future Economic migrants wish to enter the UK, including in these numbers are tens of thousands of Muslims who have no intention of integrating. What is your thoughts on this problem. And how will it influence your vote?

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

Given his posts on other topics, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd like UKIP.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Well spotted sir! I am indeed anti Muslim which does not sit comfortably with some of my other views. I have listed the reasons why. Personally, I do not advocate anything drastic. Just ban fancy dress and halal meat.

Actually I agree with you for once, my home town is lost. I just think your pro Europe views are inconsistent with your other views.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[nontabury]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

Ain't you relocated to Greece yet...?

I have places here, Edinburgh and Switzerland (Canton Valais - where they know a thing or two about referenda! [they're not called plebiscites for nothing]). I have no interest in Greece (well named).

Would this be the same Switzerland ---------

[Grouse]

Some should remember that the UK is only free because others came to their aid.

They couldn't do it alone then and they cannot do it alone now.

Some should also remember that many of the countries in the EU were defeated by the German invasion and if it were not for the UK and the dominions may possibly have been in the position that they are in now with no say in anything.

I think that without the USA coming in when it did, nearly 3 years after the UK and the Dominions were fighting together, it would have taken much longer to achieve victory.

I am not going to explain WW2 here. Just take it from that it was won with Soviet blood, American money and British intelligence. The Russians lost somethings like 100:1 our fatalities. You would be better advised to look at WHY it started.

Ain't you relocated to Greece yet...?

I have places here, Edinburgh and Switzerland (Canton Valais - where they know a thing or two about referenda! [they're not called plebiscites for nothing]). I have no interest in Greece (well named).

Would this be the same Switzerland --------- image.jpeg

The very same

I have a bomb proof shelter fully stocked

No point locking the car, they have a better car than you

Very few English!

What more could one ask?

It's also a heterogenous land with 4 formal languages none of them English

It is a federal country. Each state/canton has a high degree of autonomy

It is in the centre of the EU

It has only 10% UK population

There are no oiks!

[billd766]

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

I have read their policies and to be fair they available here online.

They are only a couple of click from your mouse away.

http://www.ukip.org/local2016

[nontabury]

Well you asked for it

UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front.

I may well be losing the argument to the seething masses of great unwashed, uneducated under classes. Fine you win.

I'm out.

May I suggest you snuggle up to the Americans?

BTW, try and get your facts right. Try and find out about refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, free movement of people, Schengen. You are so badly informed, it's just not amusing. I see Brexiteers much like the massed orks in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Finally, do me a favour and stay in England with your football, your dumbed down TV, your hip hop, your celebrity culture, your tattoos, your crap education, your lack of civil society. I will be elsewhere in Germany or Scandinavia.

Quote "UKIP supporters are deeply unpleasant people. No humanity, no common decency. No place for such people in UK. Much same as National Front."

You have just condemned over 4,000,000 British people without knowing any of them and they are from all walks of life, from young and old, male and female, all sorts of jobs.

Your arrogance and ignorance is showing yet again. Do you actually know ANY UKIP supporters personally?

I know quite a few personally from several walks of life, many of them professional engineers and senior managers.

To be fair, he has a point about UKIP supporters - although its always possible that supporters haven't read the policies or haven't worked out that those policies are bad news for the average and poorer paid.

I have read their policies and to be fair they available here online.

They are only a couple of click from your mouse away.

http://www.ukip.org/local2016

Good job there Bill.

Now perhaps someone on the remain side can provide the present policies and the future policies of the Un-elected government in Brussels.

[Thaiwine]

One pound today trading at Bangkok bank 50.53 to 52.20 so more Baht for your pound.

On Yahoo Finance one pound buys you

USD 1.4458

Euro 1.2825

I thought we could see how it goes ourselves

[MJP]

The European Union always was a CIA project, as Brexiteers discover

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Telegraph . . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

[Thaiwine]

The European Union always was a CIA project, as Brexiteers discover

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Telegraph . . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

If we are a pawn in someone else's game all the more reason to throw a spanner in the works.

[Basil B]

Well I have liquidated all my UK equities...

If the vote goes for Remain then I will reinvest as soon as the result is clear if we do vote for Britexit then I will invest in none UK equities.

[MJP]

Well I have liquidated all my UK equities...

If the vote goes for Remain then I will reinvest as soon as the result is clear if we do vote for Britexit then I will invest in none UK equities.

I know the finance director of one of Europe's largest companies, a German chap. He said exactly the opposite.

[arjunadawn]

The European Union always was a CIA project, as Brexiteers discover

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Telegraph . . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

Is it really any surprise that the archeticts of Operation Gladio would conspire to fold European countries into a gristmill where the byproduct was docility and pliability? Is it really a surprise that both EU and US are being intentionally unseated by massive population shifts? One must subscribe to an absurd accidental view of history to offer current events are natural, autonomous evolution. It's AGENDA!