Computer "warning beep"for too many Visa Exempts

[thecyclist]

Often been discussed on this forum that on arrival the computer will alert the IO to an excess of Visa Exempts.The number cited,as far as I remember,was six.Was wondering how far back the computer's "memory" goes.Lets say they are spread out over 5 years, would that still result in an alert?And do airport and land borders are the same in this respect?

[manfredtillmann]

what is 'excess of visa exempt' entries?

has this number been defined? is there such a thing?

as far as i am aware a select number of nation's citizens are entitled to stay in the kingdom of thailand for a defined number of days without the need of obtaining a visa. so? who is counting? and why?

am i - as an australian or german citizen - not entitled to arrive, stay 30 days, leave, arrive again.........???

[elviajero]

• Your whole history is on the immigration system.

The flag is triggered after 6 entries over a short timescale, but I don't think anyone knows for sure what the timescale is. Entries made 5 years wouldn't count.

[elviajero]

what is 'excess of visa exempt' entries?

has this number been defined? is there such a thing?

as far as i am aware a select number of nation's citizens are entitled to stay in the kingdom of thailand for a defined number of days without the need of obtaining a visa. so? who is counting? and why?

am i - as an australian or german citizen - not entitled to arrive, stay 30 days, leave, arrive again.........???

• There is no published limit but anyone considered a 'visa runner' can be denied entry. Visa runner being someone that is using visa exempt entry to stay/work here long term.
• They are counting because the Tourist Visa Exempt Scheme has been abused for years by people not entering for tourism.
• You are entitled to visa exempt entry only if you meet the entry rules/regulations.

[thecyclist]

• Your whole history is on the immigration system.
• The flag is triggered after 6 entries over a short timescale, but I don't think anyone knows for sure what the timescale is. Entries made 5 years wouldn't count.

[thecyclist]

Well the computer programmers of the immigration department would know, if it is an automatic alert,what in terms of entries and time scale triggers this alert.

[johnatong]

Well the computer programmers of the immigration department would know, if it is an automatic alert,what in terms of entries and time scale triggers this alert.

Best you address your question to the Thai Immigration Service.

[jacksam]

Don't think it really matters. Many reports of people with "x number" being given a warning that next time they enter Thailand they need to enter with a visa. May well ask the question that does that mean visa exempt are done for that person even if broken with visa or prolonged stay outside los.

[Farma]

I've had 14 visa exempt entries in the past 3 years. 7 of those were in the past 6 months.

I haven't been flagged or queried on arrival.

[jacksam]

I've had 14 visa exempt entries in the past 3 years. 7 of those were in the past 6 months.

I haven't been flagged or queried on arrival.

Many have.

[thecyclist]

Maybe the crackdown on in-outs is gradually easing.

[PeteM3]

I'm in and out most weekends, no problems.

[bubba1]

Maybe the crackdown on in-outs is gradually easing.

My guess is people with a lot of visa exempt stamps that stay a few days or a week don't have a problem. It's the ones that stay the full 30 days and extend for another 30 several times have the problem

[Brer Fox]

I have been coming and going on visa exempts now for about 9 years. Trips are always Hanoi/Bangkok/Hanoi and are about six weeks apart for a duration of three weeks. Never been queried or "beeped".

[elviajero]

Maybe the crackdown on in-outs is gradually easing.

Not for the group that immigration are targeting. Staying here long term using back to back visa exempt entry is no longer viable.

[Saenchai]

I got the warning after around 200 days in country. Then I was brought to office from chief and had to explain the reason I stay here. Did that and was let in.

Happened at DMK.

[HerbalEd]

As usual, there are many conflicting assumptions/guesses being stated here as fact by bar-stool experts.

Edited June 4, 2016 by HerbalEd

[JackThompson]

Maybe the crackdown on in-outs is gradually easing.

My guess is people with a lot of visa exempt stamps that stay a few days or a week don't have a problem. It's the ones that stay the full 30 days and extend for another 30 several times have the problem

I would also like to know exactly what the time-limit or other factors are on the Visa-Exempt 'over-use warning system'. But while we are making guesses, might it be possible that this is a system which can/is being updated/changed to account for additional factors?

For example, many oil-workers on shifts were reporting problems when this warning-system first went into use, though there is no visa which suits their circumstances (the 6-mo METV would work, but it not offered in the region where they work and play). Considering that one of these visitors likely contributes more foreign-exchange currency into the Thai economy per-yr than ~1000 Chinese tourists on all-inclusive package-tours, it would be foolish to cause them problems. I've seen fewer reports from oil-shift workers lately, which could indicate that time out of the country is now factored into their system.

It is also possible that the authorities do not reveal the algorithm, because its becoming public would enable people to 'game' it to get the maximum use out of VE Entries. Not knowing what the 'rule' is, I only use Tourist Visas, due to this ambiguity, which results in additional visa-income. They could get a much, much more if we could pay 10K directly to Immigration every 3 months to avoid visa-runs, but per my understanding, this would require re-writing the Laws.

[elviajero]

I would also like to know exactly what the time-limit or other factors are on the Visa-Exempt 'over-use warning system'. But while we are making guesses, might it be possible that this is a system which can/is being updated/changed to account for additional factors?

For example, many oil-workers on shifts were reporting problems when this warning-system first went into use, though there is no visa which suits their circumstances (the 6-mo METV would work, but it not offered in the region where they work and play). Considering that one of these visitors likely contributes more foreign-exchange currency into the Thai economy per-yr than ~1000 Chinese tourists on all-inclusive package-tours, it would be foolish to cause them problems. I've seen fewer reports from oil-shift workers lately, which could indicate that time out of the country is now factored into their system.

It is also possible that the authorities do not reveal the algorithm, because its becoming public would enable people to 'game' it to get the maximum use out of VE Entries. Not knowing what the 'rule' is, I only use Tourist Visas, due to this ambiguity, which results in additional visa-income. They could get a much, much more if we could pay 10K directly to Immigration every 3 months to avoid visa-runs, but per my understanding, this would require re-writing the Laws.

I think that, as it stands, TIB are happy to leave it to the discretion of the IO and the 'warning system is just a tool. Not knowing a definitive limit/rule is frustrating but it is probably better because if they go back to imposing set limits, which IMO they eventually will, it will affect many visitors like the O&G workers.

You are probably right that the unknown limits do prevent the system being played and force people buy visas. Not sure it's just about the money as there are many ways they could increase revenue. It's a long standing problem that many have used the visa exempt scheme to stay long term (illegally working) which was never the intention of the scheme.

[lkv]

I would also like to know exactly what the time-limit or other factors are on the Visa-Exempt 'over-use warning system'. But while we are making guesses, might it be possible that this is a system which can/is being updated/changed to account for additional factors?

For example, many oil-workers on shifts were reporting problems when this warning-system first went into use, though there is no visa which suits their circumstances (the 6-mo METV would work, but it not offered in the region where they work and play). Considering that one of these visitors likely contributes more foreign-exchange currency into the Thai economy per-yr than ~1000 Chinese tourists on all-inclusive package-tours, it would be foolish to cause them problems. I've seen fewer reports from oil-shift workers lately, which could indicate that time out of the country is now factored into their system.

It is also possible that the authorities do not reveal the algorithm, because its becoming public would enable people to 'game' it to get the maximum use out of VE Entries. Not knowing what the 'rule' is, I only use Tourist Visas, due to this ambiguity, which results in additional visa-income. They could get a much, much more if we could pay 10K directly to Immigration every 3 months to avoid visa-runs, but per my understanding, this would require re-writing the Laws.

I think that, as it stands, TIB are happy to leave it to the discretion of the IO and the 'warning system is just a tool. Not knowing a definitive limit/rule is frustrating but it is probably better because if they go back to imposing set limits, which IMO they eventually will, it will affect many visitors like the O&G workers.

You are probably right that the unknown limits do prevent the system being played and force people buy visas. Not sure it's just about the money as there are many ways they could increase revenue. It's a long standing problem that many have used the visa exempt scheme to stay long term (illegally working) which was never the intention of the scheme.

That's your interpretation of it. A visa exempt tourist was contributing nothing in a year, whereas a tourist visa user contributes up to 13,000 baht per year, extensions included.

Nothing to do with any illegal working.

[elviajero]

I would also like to know exactly what the time-limit or other factors are on the Visa-Exempt 'over-use warning system'. But while we are making guesses, might it be possible that this is a system which can/is being updated/changed to account for additional factors?

For example, many oil-workers on shifts were reporting problems when this warning-system first went into use, though there is no visa which suits their circumstances (the 6-mo METV would work, but it not offered in the region where they work and play). Considering that one of these visitors likely contributes more foreign-exchange currency into the Thai economy per-yr than ~1000 Chinese tourists on all-inclusive package-tours, it would be foolish to cause them problems. I've seen fewer reports from oil-shift workers lately, which could indicate that time out of the country is now factored into their system.

It is also possible that the authorities do not reveal the algorithm, because its becoming public would enable people to 'game' it to get the maximum use out of VE Entries. Not knowing what the 'rule' is, I only use Tourist Visas, due to this ambiguity, which results in additional visa-income. They could get a much, much more if we could pay 10K directly to Immigration every 3 months to avoid visa-runs, but per my understanding, this would require re-writing the Laws.

I think that, as it stands, TIB are happy to leave it to the discretion of the IO and the 'warning system is just a tool. Not knowing a definitive limit/rule is frustrating but it is probably better because if they go back to imposing set limits, which IMO they eventually will, it will affect many visitors like the O&G workers.

You are probably right that the unknown limits do prevent the system being played and force people buy visas. Not sure it's just about the money as there are many ways they could increase revenue. It's a long standing problem that many have used the visa exempt scheme to stay long term (illegally working) which was never the intention of the scheme.

That's your interpretation of it. A visa exempt tourist was contributing nothing in a year, whereas a tourist visa user contributes up to 13,000 baht per year, extensions included.

Nothing to do with any illegal working.

Nothing? Really? Where have you been for the last 10 years?

If it was just about the money they could scrap the scheme, charge on entry or limit the entries/permission to stay. It's about the overuse and inappropriate use of the scheme, illegal workers and increasing revenue from those that overuse the scheme.

[lkv]

Nothing? Really? Where have you been for the last 10 years?

If it was just about the money they could scrap the scheme, charge on entry or limit the entries/permission to stay. It's about the overuse and inappropriate use of the scheme, illegal workers and increasing revenue from those that overuse the scheme.

Yes. Nothing to do with illegal workers. Really.

Illegal working is mostly done by Burmese. They don't use a visa. In fact, they don't use a passport. Because they don't have one. It's 500 baht plus another 500 for using the motorbike on the islands.

[thecyclist]

There are probably many factors,but the Thais' inconsistency, their need to complain and find fault,more so when it has to do with farangs, is a major and stable one.They're simply unable to just let things be for a while.Has there ever been a couple of years without changes to the immigration policy?The immigration department gets a new chief, and he immediately has to clamp down on and tighten up his predecessor's policies to show that he is the boss.

[elviajero]

Nothing? Really? Where have you been for the last 10 years?

If it was just about the money they could scrap the scheme, charge on entry or limit the entries/permission to stay. It's about the overuse and inappropriate use of the scheme, illegal workers and increasing revenue from those that overuse the scheme.

Yes. Nothing to do with illegal workers. Really.

Illegal working is mostly done by Burmese. They don't use a visa. In fact, they don't use a passport. Because they don't have one. It's 500 baht plus another 500 for using the motorbike on the islands.

What do the Burmese have to do with the conversation. They don't qualify for the tourist visa exempt scheme.

There was an announcement made in 2014 by the MFA (see attached) concerning visa runners using the visa exempt scheme which states that the clampdown on visa runners is ........

aimed to prevent visa runners who abuse the visa exempt scheme from illegally working in Thailand.

A guidline was also issued to immigration officers (see attached) for the inspection of nationals entering under the visa exempt scheme.

3.1 Upon complete evidence of entering the Kingdom for tourism purpose and not for

working purpose, alien shall be granted for permission to stay for 15, 30 or 90 days as

set out in the bilateral agreements.

Visa Runner Definition.pdf

[lkv]

We're talking about different things. I have seen those documents before. And I have been in Thailand for 7 years.

Your logic: They have published documents telling us the reason, so that is the reason.

My logic: They are big fat liers. Proof: Thai Visa news forum daily threads.

We don't believe those but we believe these.

Anyways, we are going off topic but I hope you understand what I am saying.

It's the easiest excuse to throw it on farangs, like a previous poster was saying.

The reasons for doing that are more complex and belong to a political discussion that has no place in this section.

But to come back on topic:

Visa exempt not OK

Tourist visa still OK for now

METV great for visa runs (the more extended definition of visa runs)

Thai Elite ideal for tourism.

Edited June 5, 2016 by lkv

[4evermaat]

I got the warning after around 200 days in country. Then I was brought to office from chief and had to explain the reason I stay here. Did that and was let in.

Happened at DMK.

Can you elaborate on the reason you stay? (the one you told immigration)