Too many visa waiver entries?

[kane666]

I have been coming to Thailand for the last 8+ years, ~ 7 times a year staying for 10-21 days at a time. I have never applied for a visa just come in on the 30 day waiver for Aus citizens.

In April I stayed 30 days and arrived on Thursday last week for another 30 days only to be refused entry. Never even 1 single day overstay ever.

After much arguing I was eventually let in but told I would have to apply for a visa in Australia next time if I wanted to come again. They told me the automatic 30 days for Aus citizens was only allowed 3 times a year. When I asked them how exactly I was supposed to know this before I arrived they laughed and said I should have asked them...

BTW this wasn't flagged by the immigration officer, he showed me the screen where the system had automatically flagged me.

If I am pushed to get a METV for $225 in future then so be it but as I never stay more than 30 days it seems pointless. My more immediate problem is I have to go to China for business for 3 days June 18-21 and then back to BKK which means another argument when I arrive. Is there actually any set limit on the number of times you can come in on a 30 day visa waiver? Is it published anywhere?

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

There is no written limit on the number of visa exempt entities you can do over any period of time.

Immigration gets an alert at 6 entries. The officer then should review your history to see if you have been doing in/out visa runs to live here on exempt entries.

Not sure where the office officer came up with the 3 entry limit.

They cannot deny you entry for having to many entries. They can only do it under section 12 of the immigration act. The most common reason is lack of financial proof and/or suspicion of working here. Having the equivalent of 20k baht in cash would take care of the financial proof. Some proof of income from outside the country would help for the other.

[kane666]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

[NanLaew]

Once you're flagged and in the system, expect to be pressed for evidence that you are NOT working in Thailand each time you enter. The OP is lucky in that the Immigration officer acquiesced and did show him that he was in the system and let him in. Less fortunate travelers only have to take the officers word for it. Since there is indeed nothing writ and it can be at the whim of the individual Immigration officer at any given time so follow ubonjoe's sage advice with cash in hand and proof of sustaining funds and stay cool and you should be fine. I would suggest that there's probably less chance of extra harassment entering at Don Meuang but a much higher chance of confrontation at Phuket. Avoid southern land border crossings.

If you can squeeze getting a visa somewhere in your travels, maybe better for the future.

[T1000]

Immigration gets an alert at 6 entries.

Over what period of time? I am sure I have got that many since my first trip many years ago, but have never been asked a single question. Is there any 'out of county' time that resets the count? Perhaps a new passport gives a new life? Please clarify.

[ubonjoe]

Immigration gets an alert at 6 entries.

Over what period of time? I am sure I have got that many since my first trip many years ago, but have never been asked a single question. Is there any 'out of county' time that resets the count? Perhaps a new passport gives a new life? Please clarify.

Only immigration know over how long time nor what will reset it. No info from them about it.

A new passport will not help since the old and new one will be linked in immigration's data base.

[JackThompson]

Immigration gets an alert at 6 entries.

Over what period of time? I am sure I have got that many since my first trip many years ago, but have never been asked a single question. Is there any 'out of county' time that resets the count? Perhaps a new passport gives a new life? Please clarify.

We cannot clarify because, there are many unwritten, inspecific, selectively-enforced, and continually-changing rules applied at Thai consulates (re: the issue of visas) and at border crossings. There is a recent thread for more discussion on the '6 Visa Exempt Entry' mystery-rule. Your case blows my theory (in that thread), that perhaps they were no longer flagging people who stay out of the country for weeks between entries - as it is clear they are not working:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/922326-computer-warning-beepfor-too-many-visa-exempts/

The best you can do is have the cash to reduce the chances of the "lack of funds for support in Thailand" excuse for denial being used - though there was a recent case at Don Muang where the entrant showed the money (many times the required amount), but they used this rule anyway (he had been out of the country for months, prior to this entry).

If they decide to say they "think you are working," there is no way you can "prove" a negative. Non-existent jobs don't offer anti-paycheck receipts. Proof of other income may or may not be considered - a smooth crook would have faked income-docs, right? But it cannot hurt to bring it.

For frequent visitors and long-time stayers, you are basically spinning the immigration-roulette wheel each time you enter. Some entry-points have better odds than others, and land and air entry-points have different consequences for denial. At both land and air crossing-points, you do have the right of appeal, but this includes staying in their detention facility, for up to 7 days, while that plays out. This is where your cash and proof-of income could be presented to a senior official, assuming you feel this punishment (jail time, essentially), is worth the chance of obtaining entry at that particular location. I am not aware of any reports from those who appealed which could provide a window into the experience/treatement afforded those who choose this option.

The consequences of deinal at land-borders is to simply return to the other country and try again another time or place. If you enter at an Airport, be prepared for the possibility you may be forced to buy a ticket home - not just 'somewhere else', but to your home country - and to pay for a guard to watch you until you board that flight.

Note that, according to the most recent report, if your appeal is denied at an airport, you will not be given the opportunity to change the date on an existing return ticket, and will be forced to purchase a new ticket home. It is unknown if you will be frog-marched in handcuffs from the detention-center to your flight if you loose an appeal, as you would if caught on overstay. Part of the leverage used to encourage you to give up and go away without any due-process, is to offer you the kinder alternative of being guarded (sans handcuffs) in the departures lounge until you leave that day - though you may be denied any food and drink during this time. See a recent report here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760825-rejected-at-the-airport-with-a-valid-visa/?view=findpost&p=10806375

[scubascuba3]

The application form in UK says only 3 visa exempts allowed, it doesn't state over what period but what ive been reading on here and another forum is people are regularly now getting warned they will not be allowed entrance without a visa.

[ubonjoe]

The application form in UK says only 3 visa exempts allowed, it doesn't state over what period but what ive been reading on here and another forum is people are regularly now getting warned they will not be allowed entrance without a visa.

Could you post a link to that application form.

I have seen the wrong info on the Thai embassy website that mentions the old 90 days in 6 months rule that ended in 2008.

Immigration can warn all they want but there is to no rule to support that warning.

[scubascuba3]

The application form in UK says only 3 visa exempts allowed, it doesn't state over what period but what ive been reading on here and another forum is people are regularly now getting warned they will not be allowed entrance without a visa.

Could you post a link to that application form.

I have seen the wrong info on the Thai embassy website that mentions the old 90 days in 6 months rule that ended in 2008.

Immigration can warn all they want but there is to no rule to support that warning.

See 2 below. I havent got a link as their website hasnt been updated.

[darrendsd]

The above ties in with the statement on Thai Visa Service that Immigration can give 3 consecutive Visa exempt entries

http://www.thaivisaservice.com/

[IMA_FARANG]

There is no written limit on the number of visa exempt entities you can do over any period of time.

Immigration gets an alert at 6 entries. The officer then should review your history to see if you have been doing in/out visa runs to live here on exempt entries.

Not sure where the office officer came up with the 3 entry limit.

They cannot deny you entry for having to many entries. They can only do it under section 12 of the immigration act. The most common reason is lack of financial proof and/or suspicion of working here. Having the equivalent of 20k baht in cash would take care of the financial proof. Some proof of income from outside the country would help for the other.

As was said....there is no sure limit.

If you can afford it get at least one 60 day tourist visa in that mix.

two benefits of a tourist visa in between visa exempt entries are:

• you can extend that 60 day Tourist visa entry for another 30 days at immigration for a 1900 Baht fee, giving you a total of 90 days legal stay in country.
• If you enter on a 60 day Tourist visa, and you need to leave the country for a few days and then return....you can get a single exit re-entry permit for 1000 Baht which will keep your tourist visa valid during that short exit and re-entry period.

[NanLaew]

The decisions on these matters are arbitrary and indiscriminate. If you like playing pot-luck, knock yourselves out.

[ubonjoe]

The above ties in with the statement on Thai Visa Service that Immigration can give 3 consecutive Visa exempt entries

http://www.thaivisaservice.com/

That is mostly intended for border crossings and does mention the alert. It also says they can ask you to get a tourist visa. It does not say you have to.

The info from the embassy is not really correct since it says you must get a tourist visa.

The OP was told that after many visa exempt entries. Not just three of them.

[darrendsd]

The above ties in with the statement on Thai Visa Service that Immigration can give 3 consecutive Visa exempt entries

http://www.thaivisaservice.com/

That is mostly intended for border crossings and does mention the alert. It also says they can ask you to get a tourist visa. It does not say you have to.

The info from the embassy is not really correct since it says you must get a tourist visa.

The OP was told that after many visa exempt entries. Not just three of them.

Sorry Joe but it does say system alert, it also says they can ask you to come back with a valid visa, in my mind that reads you will be refused entry, the main words are come back

From the ThaiVisaService site

usually Thai Immigration can give 3 consecutive visa exempt stamp per passport or until System Alert. Valid for ASEAN, Westerners, Russian and Japanese. If System Alert than Thai Immigration will ask you to go to a Thai Embassy and come back with a proper visa.

[lkv]

....

The OP was told that after many visa exempt entries. Not just three of them.

The way I am reading it is, it does not matter that he had 100 visa exempts last year. If this is some sort of a new rule then he had 3 this year and he was attempting his fourth (perhaps).

Scubascuba3's attached image is interesting. It says you MUST apply for a tourist visa after 3 visa exempts. It's unclear if per calendar year, over the last 12 months, etc.

Edited June 9, 2016 by lkv

[scubascuba3]

I'm not sure what you are meant to do when you land go to immigration and they refuse entry (so far I've only heard of warnings, no one has mentioned being refused entry).

[ubonjoe]

....

The OP was told that after many visa exempt entries. Not just three of them.

The way I am reading it is, it does not matter that he had 100 visa exempts last year. If this is some sort of a new rule then he had 3 this year and he was attempting his fourth.

Scubascuba3's attached image is interesting. It says you MUST apply for a tourist visa after 3 visa exempts. It's unclear if per calendar year, over the last 12 months, etc.

There is not a new rule. There would have to be a new police order issued and that has not been done.

That is from the embassy in London and cannot be relied on to be the correct. They still have this on the website that was rescinded in 2008.

"Foreigners who enter Thailand under the Tourist Visa Exemption category and would like to leave and re-enter may only stay for a cumulative duration which does not exceed 90 days and is within a 6-month period from the date of first entry."

Edited June 9, 2016 by ubonjoe

[lkv]

....

The OP was told that after many visa exempt entries. Not just three of them.

The way I am reading it is, it does not matter that he had 100 visa exempts last year. If this is some sort of a new rule then he had 3 this year and he was attempting his fourth.

Scubascuba3's attached image is interesting. It says you MUST apply for a tourist visa after 3 visa exempts. It's unclear if per calendar year, over the last 12 months, etc.

There is not a new rule. There would have to be a new police order issued and that has not been done.

Ok maybe I expressed myself the wrong way. They changed the flag system in the computer to 3 per calendar year (let's say). How would you interpret the leaflet from the UK Consulate then? Edited June 9, 2016 by lkv

[scubascuba3]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Edited June 9, 2016 by scubascuba3

[lkv]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Meaning Jan 2016 to Dec 2016 or over the last 12 months of travel?

[scubascuba3]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Meaning Jan 2016 to Dec 2016 or over the last 12 months of travel?

The last 12 months

[ubonjoe]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

[scubascuba3]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

Seems odd to ignore whats on the form and which has also been confirmed by phone. There has been many threads recently (not last year) on here and PA where people are being warned about not being allowed in on visa exempt next time, unless its just a bluff?

[lkv]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

Seems odd to ignore whats on the form and which has also been confirmed by phone. There has been many threads recently (not last year) on here and PA where people are being warned about not being allowed in on visa exempt next time, unless its just a bluff?

Well I guess we will find out soon enough won't we? Over the next few days/weeks from TV posters caught by surprise.

I tend to believe these forms coming directly from inside the consulate, whilst they don't necessarily update the website.

scubascuba3, is there any way you would scan that document in full when you have time and post it here?

Edited June 9, 2016 by lkv

[scubascuba3]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

Seems odd to ignore whats on the form and which has also been confirmed by phone. There has been many threads recently (not last year) on here and PA where people are being warned about not being allowed in on visa exempt next time, unless its just a bluff?

Well I guess we will find out soon enough won't we? Over the next few days/weeks from TV posters caught by surprise.

I tend to believe these forms coming directly from inside the consulate, whilst they don't necessarily update the website.

scubascuba3, is there any way you would scan that document in full when you have time and post it here?

The image further up the thread includes the important points, you're aren't missing anything useful.

[ubonjoe]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

Seems odd to ignore whats on the form and which has also been confirmed by phone. There has been many threads recently (not last year) on here and PA where people are being warned about not being allowed in on visa exempt next time, unless its just a bluff?

I would call it a bluff since many people have been warned and entered again after getting warned.

[darrendsd]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

Thai embassies and consulates are not good choices for getting information about entries to the country. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with rules governing entry to the country. Immigration is responsible for those rules.

Seems odd to ignore whats on the form and which has also been confirmed by phone. There has been many threads recently (not last year) on here and PA where people are being warned about not being allowed in on visa exempt next time, unless its just a bluff?

I would call it a bluff since many people have been warned and entered again after getting warned.

And at least one person has reported being refused entry that we know of

As the unnofficial limit for visa exempts seems to have been cut from 6 to 3 (2 sources saying this) there could be more to this than people see

I guess we will find out in the coming months

[scubascuba3]

I wonder why the Thai authorities want to stop it? The guys are working abroad often so maybe its just that they aren't getting visa fees.

[elviajero]

I just called a UK Thai consulate and the limit is 3 visa exempts in a year, doesn't matter if consecutive or not.

I wouldn't rely on any information given by the Embassy/Consulate staff on immigration policy. The Embassy website is still referring to the 90 day in 180 day rule that was abolished in 2008.