Realities of teaching in Thailand without work permit

[Kenny202]

Been looking into working in Thailand as a teacher. Was looking at TEFL courses etc but don't have a degree so looks like obtaining a work permit even with TEFL almost impossible. I'm up country and from experience it would seem many of the private schools or language schools are reluctant to go through the rigmoral / expense of obtaining a WP for a teacher with or without a degree or qualifications. Please don't misunderstand my post. If I do go into this field, I want to do a good job and take it seriously but seems to me many of these "schools" are more interested in a baby sitter or just having a white face in the place rather than the kids actually learning something and this seems to be more the case in private schools where you would expect a better level of education. I mean a school willing to take someone with no experience to teach kids not only English but Science and maths? Classes contain kids of ages 5 through to 12! How could you teach these kids on the same level?

No class plan, no learning tools. Keep them busy and entertained. Guaranteed pass.

So, it appears to me there are many teachers here working without work permits, particularly out in the sticks..... and to some degree on and off it looks like the government tolerates this based on the availability of English teachers. I don't expect anyone to come on here and openly state they are working without a WP but realistically, what would happen to someone who got caught out in this situation? I think legally the official penalty can be deportation / fine / jail but would this really happen? Anyone have any experience or first hand knowledge of this? Of course the school I spoke to said "NO PROBLEM"

[tonray]

Yes...they will a actually deport you. Many have been sent away.

[Happy Grumpy]

A mate of mine rooted one of the teachers at his school.

He considered it a fling, she didn't.

She called up immigration to report him for working on a Tourist Visa.

They came, took him out of the school, fined him 500 baht, and off you go.

That's the only experience that I can offer on the subject. I would suspect that plenty more posters will have all sorts of hearsay and rumors. Off with them.

[Kenny202]

A mate of mine rooted one of the teachers at his school.

He considered it a fling, she didn't.

She called up immigration to report him for working on a Tourist Visa.

They came, took him out of the school, fined him 500 baht, and off you go.

That's the only experience that I can offer on the subject. I would suspect that plenty more posters will have all sorts of hearsay and rumors. Off with them.

Thanks for your honesty mate. You can actually root them? hahaha. Im thinking maybe worth the risk now (only joking!)

[tonray]

A mate of mine rooted one of the teachers at his school.

He considered it a fling, she didn't.

She called up immigration to report him for working on a Tourist Visa.

They came, took him out of the school, fined him 500 baht, and off you go.

That's the only experience that I can offer on the subject. I would suspect that plenty more posters will have all sorts of hearsay and rumors. Off with them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/

[Happy Grumpy]

I should probably say, that that's the only first hand (or any hand) experience of someone being reported or 'caught'

About half the guys I play football with are teachers here (in BKK) AFAIK almost none of them have WP's for a variety of reasons, most have been here teaching for 5-10 years, none has ever reported knowing someone to have gotten in any type of trouble for doing so.

hope that helps.

[gdgbb]

"Please don't misunderstand my post. If I do go into this field, I want to do a good job and take it seriously..."

Make up your mind, are you going to work illegally without the required qualifications or are you going to take it seriously?

Some pupils may take learning from a foreigner seriously only to find he was taking the piss out of them, the authorities and the system designed to protect them from people like you.

[lostinisaan]

I mean a school willing to take someone with no experience to teach kids not only English but Science and maths? Classes contain kids of ages 5 through to 12! How could you teach these kids on the same level?

Some 5, or 6 year old kids are better in English than some grade six, or 11 or 12 year old ones. Those schools usually do an entrance test and the groups are mixed with different age groups based on their level of English.

You 'were' looking for a TEFL course, Do a TEFL with real students, not an online one to learn various techniques, some classroom experience/management etc, but it will be very different when you walk into your first real lesson

And believe me, teaching English to Thai kids ( of course subjects as well) is a very difficult job.

If you know somebody who lets you sit in some of his/her lessons would be good for you and who knows after a while you might get an offer from a nearby school?

That on the other hand will 'teach' you a lot more than a course and you'll immediately see how difficult such a job can be.

A lot of schools don't have enough teachers and some labor departments and Immigration in several provinces let foreigners be trainers.

Completely legal, with a work permit and Non-B visa. Nothing in Thailand is impossible.

Such a TEFL course is always mentioned at websites like ajarncom, but that's the deal and the reason why the small adds are free.

.I guess Sponsors made it happen that they have to add this requirement to a job advertisement. Forget the online ones, wasted money.

Or make a few sets of your resume and go from school to school in your preferred area, be well dressed and mannered and you might find a teaching position.

Good luck !! .

.

[DP25]

A mate of mine rooted one of the teachers at his school.

He considered it a fling, she didn't.

She called up immigration to report him for working on a Tourist Visa.

They came, took him out of the school, fined him 500 baht, and off you go.

That's the only experience that I can offer on the subject. I would suspect that plenty more posters will have all sorts of hearsay and rumors. Off with them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/

The thing with that case, is that they were working for an illegal company in an office teaching people online in China. Basically operating an illegal call center and employing foreigners. That's a very different situation, immigration does not tolerate stuff like that when they learn about it.

There are a lot more than 17 illegal teachers at government schools in Chiang Mai, there are probably hundreds. Immigration could walk in to almost any school at any time and find illegal teachers. The Chiang Mai call center case very clearly crossed the line of what they will tolerate.

[Bernard Flint]

The ones i know are getting about 20,000 baht a month, i wouldnt get out of bed for that pittance

[Franky Bear]

You're not a teacher in any way or form. You are an opportunist taking advantage of a poor country for your own gain.

To be a genuine teacher takes years at University learning so many different angles, from spotting if a child is being abused at home, to the actual subject you want to teach.

You do not have that skill like95% of the "teachers" in this country.

[Kenny202]

You're not a teacher in any way or form. You are an opportunist taking advantage of a poor country for your own gain.

To be a genuine teacher takes years at University learning so many different angles, from spotting if a child is being abused at home, to the actual subject you want to teach.

You do not have that skill like95% of the "teachers" in this country.

Jesus theres some miserable, rude and ignorant human beings on this forum. Did you only read the first three words of my post? I never said it was easy nor did I say I was qualified. I was amazed at their willingness to take just about anyone to teach not only English but science and Maths. If you read my post I excused myself from the position, hardly an opportunist "Franky bear". Jesus! Is that what the kids call you?

The topic of my post were the "realities" here and the reality is that many private schools will take just about anyone as long as there is a white face in the place to justify the expensive tuition fees. In my opinion the problem isn't with the people seeking work as much as the private schools and employment agents lack of regard for the kids education. I don't think even the parents generally give too much of a toss as long as the kid gets a pass. Typical of many things in the land of smiles. Not concerned with the details only the outcome.

By the way, there are several senior Thai teachers within my wife's family who cant work out a simple percentage or fraction without a calculator, are totally unaware of their neighbouring countries and don't know the difference between Australia and Austria. University degree or not Im sure someone with any training or speaking experience and a reasonable western education would be at least a good supplement to the poor education most receive

[brewsterbudgen]

You're not a teacher in any way or form. You are an opportunist taking advantage of a poor country for your own gain.

To be a genuine teacher takes years at University learning so many different angles, from spotting if a child is being abused at home, to the actual subject you want to teach.

You do not have that skill like95% of the "teachers" in this country.

Most teachers in Thailand teach EFL and usually to classes of adults.

[Franky Bear]

Jesus theres some miserable, rude and ignorant human beings on this forum. Did you only read the first three words of my post? I never said it was easy nor did I say I was qualified. I was amazed at their willingness to take just about anyone to teach not only English but science and Maths. If you read my post I excused myself from the position, hardly an opportunist "Franky bear". Jesus! Is that what the kids call you?

The topic of my post were the "realities" here and the reality is that many private schools will take just about anyone as long as there is a white face in the place to justify the expensive tuition fees. In my opinion the problem isn't with the people seeking work as much as the private schools and employment agents lack of regard for the kids education. I don't think even the parents generally give too much of a toss as long as the kid gets a pass. Typical of many things in the land of smiles. Not concerned with the details only the outcome.

By the way, there are several senior Thai teachers within my wife's family who cant work out a simple percentage or fraction without a calculator, are totally unaware of their neighbouring countries and don't know the difference between Australia and Austria. University degree or not Im sure someone with any training or speaking experience and a reasonable western education would be at least a good supplement to the poor education most receive

My Kids called me , "Dad" strangely enough.

I'm far from miserable. Don;t resort to that knickers when stark realities are pointed out. You and these "teachers" are parasites. I don't care what the Thai side of this is. This is about you and your kind preying on the foul way the Thai education system works.

[Kenny202]

Jesus theres some miserable, rude and ignorant human beings on this forum. Did you only read the first three words of my post? I never said it was easy nor did I say I was qualified. I was amazed at their willingness to take just about anyone to teach not only English but science and Maths. If you read my post I excused myself from the position, hardly an opportunist "Franky bear". Jesus! Is that what the kids call you?

The topic of my post were the "realities" here and the reality is that many private schools will take just about anyone as long as there is a white face in the place to justify the expensive tuition fees. In my opinion the problem isn't with the people seeking work as much as the private schools and employment agents lack of regard for the kids education. I don't think even the parents generally give too much of a toss as long as the kid gets a pass. Typical of many things in the land of smiles. Not concerned with the details only the outcome.

By the way, there are several senior Thai teachers within my wife's family who cant work out a simple percentage or fraction without a calculator, are totally unaware of their neighbouring countries and don't know the difference between Australia and Austria. University degree or not Im sure someone with any training or speaking experience and a reasonable western education would be at least a good supplement to the poor education most receive

My Kids called me , "Dad" strangely enough.

I'm far from miserable. Don;t resort to that knickers when stark realities are pointed out. You and these "teachers" are parasites. I don't care what the Thai side of this is. This is about you and your kind preying on the foul way the Thai education system works.

I meant the "kids" at school weirdo. Hope the students didn't call you "dad". I'm not sure if you're claiming to be a university qualified teacher or not but your comprehension skills aren't too sharp are they? Neither is your grammar or punctuation for that matter hahaha. Halve your meds genius. What a nasty, miserable human being you are.

[Franky Bear]

I meant the "kids" at school weirdo. Hope the students didn't call you "dad". I'm not sure if you're claiming to be a university qualified teacher or not but your comprehension skills aren't too sharp are they? Neither is your grammar or punctuation for that matter hahaha. Halve your meds genius. What a nasty, miserable human being you are.

I'm not a teacher.

[Kenny202]

I meant the "kids" at school weirdo. Hope the students didn't call you "dad". I'm not sure if you're claiming to be a university qualified teacher or not but your comprehension skills aren't too sharp are they? Neither is your grammar or punctuation for that matter hahaha. Halve your meds genius. What a nasty, miserable human being you are.

I'm not a teacher.

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

[Franky Bear]

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

My kids are in the Thai education system (not for much longer thankfully)

This isn't a battle of anything. it's pointing out to you that you are NOT in any way or form a teacher and shouldn't even be considering being one. Even the teachers i know and drink with agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near a school in reality but it allows them to stay in Thailand. I don;t mind honesty like that to be honest.

Now, stop being agressive and assuming anything about me. This is a subject that is open to anyone with a kid in this terrible schooling.

[Kenny202]

You called me and many others a parasite? Is that you not being aggressive or assumptive?

Go away

[Franky Bear]

You called me and many others a parasite? Is that you not being aggressive or assumptive?

Go away

That's not an agressive stance. it's a fact.

One word answer.

Have you got a degree in teaching (any subject) from your home country? A yes or no answer is all we need.

[Scott]

Next inflammatory or off-topic post will result in a suspension.

The OP has asked a reasonable question. Stay on topic.

[manfredtillmann]

my wife was tought (the spell checker as an amazing lack of knowledge regarding irregular verbs) by thai teachers, went to high school, to uni, she never had one farang teacher and... she knows NOTHING.

she honestly has not got a clue - and she is not dumb at all.

she does not know geography, neighboring countries, asean, vietnam war (her mother fled from laos!!!), she's been to australia 3 times and germany once still can't locate them on the world map.

i deliberately don't try to change this - marriage #3 - got better things to do, but i encourage every reasonably educated and motivated foreigner to give these poor, ignorant people a glimmer of education. it might change their perception that the world and the universe revolves around thailand.

[up-country_sinclair]

The reality is that you're not qualified to teach English in Thailand.

The reality is that you have a good chance of being arrested and deported.

[lostinisaan]

my wife was tought (the spell checker as an amazing lack of knowledge regarding irregular verbs) by thai teachers, went to high school, to uni, she never had one farang teacher and... she knows NOTHING.

she honestly has not got a clue - and she is not dumb at all.

she does not know geography, neighboring countries, asean, vietnam war (her mother fled from laos!!!), she's been to australia 3 times and germany once still can't locate them on the world map.

i deliberately don't try to change this - marriage #3 - got better things to do, but i encourage every reasonably educated and motivated foreigner to give these poor, ignorant people a glimmer of education. it might change their perception that the world and the universe revolves around thailand.

I better hold my breath.

[bamukloy]

"Seems to me many of these "schools" are more interested in a baby sitter or just having a white face"

I may be a cynic but i think all they are pretty much interested in making money.

If in a nakon nowhere Isarn they will tell you the budget is low and you get maybe 15-20 a month,but for sure they will probably con the parents into paying more for a "intense English program" with this hotshot teacher they had to source from Bangkok...all BS

dont listen to all the other wallys on here. You wont see any officers come to take you away. If you know the Pooyai you can even ride a bike around Isaan for years and never anyone stop you or ask for a licence.

The only trouble is if you cause big scene with the director but blacklisted..no way.

Maybe in Bangkok you will have trouble if you work amongst farangs..best to keep away from them

[Kenny202]

You called me and many others a parasite? Is that you not being aggressive or assumptive?

Go away

That's not an agressive stance. it's a fact.

One word answer.

Have you got a degree in teaching (any subject) from your home country? A yes or no answer is all we need.

Who is "WE" Franky bear? You have a mouse in your pocket? I love people who come on here and state "WE" like you have the support of others behind you or you speak for all. All you did was come on here with nasty, negative, misguided and rhetorical statements.

Let me say, I do not have a university degree. I think I mentioned that or at least alluded to it. I did complete school and completed a 4 year trade in

Electrical wiring / contracting with associate certificates in Electronics and Engineering. I left that industry many years ago and was a corporate trainer / National Operations manager.

Now "WE" want to know what you do "Franky bear"?

I will also say I agree with you in regards to the Thai education system. It is dreadful. I also have a child and I despair at the thought of him going to school. One thing I have learned is that I wont be sending him to a private school. Thing I haven't mentioned, and I in no way claim this to entitle me to teach here....I lived in a remote village for a year. Most wonderful respectful kids I have ever met. Most of them lived dirt floor huts, ate rats...frogs. Happiest kids I ever seen in my life. My wife's uncle, a district head teacher, who lived next door asked me if I could come and speak to the kids in English sometimes at the school. Not for money, just to help out. They didn't have funding for an English teacher. We already had groups of kids coming to our home on weekends armed with their English books for some help. In actual fact I think they were more interested in eating farang food and spending sometime in a nice house which was fine with us. Truly lovely kids. I think their parents had pushed them into going to learn English with the farang.

Thing that struck me was that they were enthralled watching documentaries about animals, world events, different countries they didn't even know existed. Try getting a kid back home to watch a show like that. They have no choice other than watch the inane drivel they show on FTA TV here. My point being, the kids want to learn in most cases. The system lets them down and they become disillusioned and lazy. I would have 120 really poor kids sitting cross legged and super well behaved for at least an hour in that little government village school. Seems to me in a private school they just do what they want. Play facebook, wander outside as the mood takes. Teacher has no control as the kid is guaranteed a pass. If the teacher dares to chastise or make an example of the kid mom and dad are there complaining the next day. And mom and dad complaining is far worse than the kid not learning anything. Its about the fees. And these are the privileged kids that will end up in the universities, have all the opportunities and will be operating on people, running the country etc.

So every week I would go to the school with my wife. She would handle the Thai side of things and I would ask them questions about their life...their likes...sports they like. I in turn would tell them things about Australia, my travels. Basically an open discussion with what ended up being the whole school 120 kids assembled for an hour. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I got as much out of it as the kids. Did I teach them proper English? Grammar etc. No. Did they learn something? Absolutely. After that year we moved away and unfortunately I couldn't spend time with the kids anymore. They did manage to employ a Thai "English" teacher. The wife's uncle was eager for me to meet her. He probably thought I would be happy to speak English with someone. She kept putting it off. In the end, I met her by chance at a school festival. She couldn't understand a bloody word I was saying! She said it was my accent. Now I don't have any sort of a thick accent and I'm well versed in talking to Thai people who understand English very "Sa lowly". Apart from the usual "How are you" "I fine thank you" "what is your name" she didn't have a clue. She's still working there 2 years later. School I spoke to last week just lost an English teacher. She couldn't control the kids. Well she got the job as an English teacher....had a degree in fashion design or something. She was Bhutanese....didn't speak English or Thai. I guess there are foreign people here using or abusing the system and aren't sincere about what they're doing. Does all this make me or others parasites?

[Kenny202]

"Seems to me many of these "schools" are more interested in a baby sitter or just having a white face"

I may be a cynic but i think all they are pretty much interested in making money.

If in a nakon nowhere Isarn they will tell you the budget is low and you get maybe 15-20 a month,but for sure they will probably con the parents into paying more for a "intense English program" with this hotshot teacher they had to source from Bangkok...all BS

dont listen to all the other wallys on here. You wont see any officers come to take you away. If you know the Pooyai you can even ride a bike around Isaan for years and never anyone stop you or ask for a licence.

The only trouble is if you cause big scene with the director but blacklisted..no way.

Maybe in Bangkok you will have trouble if you work amongst farangs..best to keep away from them

15-20k no. I have been offered between 25-30k on several occasions. That was upfront too without bonuses etc. I heard someone else claim 20k too. Just not true in my experience. I mean its not a fortune either but we should keep the facts right for anyone interested. I guess if you were in a more competitive area the pay may be lower.

Im in Isaan. I don't know about a properly trained English teacher but someone with any degree here don't seem to get a lot more, maybe 35-37k month.

[Kenny202]

my wife was tought (the spell checker as an amazing lack of knowledge regarding irregular verbs) by thai teachers, went to high school, to uni, she never had one farang teacher and... she knows NOTHING.

she honestly has not got a clue - and she is not dumb at all.

she does not know geography, neighboring countries, asean, vietnam war (her mother fled from laos!!!), she's been to australia 3 times and germany once still can't locate them on the world map.

i deliberately don't try to change this - marriage #3 - got better things to do, but i encourage every reasonably educated and motivated foreigner to give these poor, ignorant people a glimmer of education. it might change their perception that the world and the universe revolves around thailand.

Well my wife doesn't have an extensive education but she's far from stupid. Saying I heard when I first came to Thailand....Thais aren't stupid, but they do stupid things.

When I first got here I went to live with her in her home at the village. She had a small plot of land growing what I came to know as Tapioca, or Cassava. For those of you in the city a root vegetable they grow here, crush up and make I think starch powder out of it. Must be used in food manufacturing or something because it is grown all over rural Isaan.

Anyway, I'd never seen it before so I asked her.....what do they use this for? She just stared at me blankly.....(embarrassed didn't know the answer)

"up to company". What do you mean? Another blank stare. She'd been growing and picking this stuff for 20 years and never thought to ask what its purpose was.

That sums up the Thai education system for me. Lack of wonder, reasoning....any ability to think more than one move ahead. "get headache".

Lazy brain....taught to them at a very young age.

[Franky Bear]

Who is "WE" Franky bear? You have a mouse in your pocket? I love people who come on here and state "WE" like you have the support of others behind you or you speak for all. All you did was come on here with nasty, negative, misguided and rhetorical statements.

Let me say, I do not have a university degree. I think I mentioned that or at least alluded to it. I did complete school and completed a 4 year trade in

Electrical wiring / contracting with associate certificates in Electronics and Engineering. I left that industry many years ago and was a corporate trainer / National Operations manager.

Now "WE" want to know what you do "Franky bear"?

I will also say I agree with you in regards to the Thai education system. It is dreadful. I also have a child and I despair at the thought of him going to school. One thing I have learned is that I wont be sending him to a private school. Thing I haven't mentioned, and I in no way claim this to entitle me to teach here....I lived in a remote village for a year. Most wonderful respectful kids I have ever met. Most of them lived dirt floor huts, ate rats...frogs. Happiest kids I ever seen in my life. My wife's uncle, a district head teacher, who lived next door asked me if I could come and speak to the kids in English sometimes at the school. Not for money, just to help out. They didn't have funding for an English teacher. We already had groups of kids coming to our home on weekends armed with their English books for some help. In actual fact I think they were more interested in eating farang food and spending sometime in a nice house which was fine with us. Truly lovely kids. I think their parents had pushed them into going to learn English with the farang.

Thing that struck me was that they were enthralled watching documentaries about animals, world events, different countries they didn't even know existed. Try getting a kid back home to watch a show like that. They have no choice other than watch the inane drivel they show on FTA TV here. My point being, the kids want to learn in most cases. The system lets them down and they become disillusioned and lazy. I would have 120 really poor kids sitting cross legged and super well behaved for at least an hour in that little government village school. Seems to me in a private school they just do what they want. Play facebook, wander outside as the mood takes. Teacher has no control as the kid is guaranteed a pass. If the teacher dares to chastise or make an example of the kid mom and dad are there complaining the next day. And mom and dad complaining is far worse than the kid not learning anything. Its about the fees. And these are the privileged kids that will end up in the universities, have all the opportunities and will be operating on people, running the country etc.

So every week I would go to the school with my wife. She would handle the Thai side of things and I would ask them questions about their life...their likes...sports they like. I in turn would tell them things about Australia, my travels. Basically an open discussion with what ended up being the whole school 120 kids assembled for an hour. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I got as much out of it as the kids. Did I teach them proper English? Grammar etc. No. Did they learn something? Absolutely. After that year we moved away and unfortunately I couldn't spend time with the kids anymore. They did manage to employ a Thai "English" teacher. The wife's uncle was eager for me to meet her. He probably thought I would be happy to speak English with someone. She kept putting it off. In the end, I met her by chance at a school festival. She couldn't understand a bloody word I was saying! She said it was my accent. Now I don't have any sort of a thick accent and I'm well versed in talking to Thai people who understand English very "Sa lowly". Apart from the usual "How are you" "I fine thank you" "what is your name" she didn't have a clue. She's still working there 2 years later. School I spoke to last week just lost an English teacher. She couldn't control the kids. Well she got the job as an English teacher....had a degree in fashion design or something. She was Bhutanese....didn't speak English or Thai. I guess there are foreign people here using or abusing the system and aren't sincere about what they're doing. Does all this make me or others parasites?

Tl;Dr till you asked me what i do....I'm a mechanical engineer.

[bamukloy]

What really makes me laugh is these guys claiming everyone else is "taking the piss" if you dont have a degree. And who in their right mind would have a real teaching degree from a real unversity..paying 10s of thousands $US to come and work in Thailand for $200 a week?

Its like an argument i see many times. Prats going on about how they have degree...when you ask them what degree, and they something like...engineering lol

So i ask you who can rightly be an English teacher?

Some guy with Engineering degree or a trade qualified electrician with no degree? Lol

and you can teach English here with any degree..so Mr (not education) degree holder...you are just as fake as anyone else and you must be silly and/or desperate to work here, putting up with the shit..for PEANUTS .lol