Chiangmai is getting expensive and slowly changing ....these days

[kalbo123]

Chiang Mai changed, period.

But I guess all places change.

I have to admit Chiang mai did not get better over the years.

Traffic sucks, Nightlife is ruined.

Prices are up.

People don't seem as friendly anymore as 15 years ago when I first came here.

But for some reason I don't care, start living more in my own environment and do not expect too much service anymore in any place, if I do get it I am pleasantly surprised. And will visit the place again until they start changing to the lazy mode.

Works well for me, still like it here.

I Would not know a good alternative either.

[dcnx]

No, he's right. There's been a change just in the past five years. Everything has become much more busy. Little touches of service have disappeared. Small stuff, but it adds up. For the most part, they no longer put your bags into your cart at Tops. The cashiers at Rim Ping often don't give that pretty little wai when they hand you your change. (The cashiers at Tops always were a little lazy about this).

Outrageous.

The little people not bowing and worshiping us.

They should be accused of stealing and locked up for their disrespect.

Do you not remember the friendly nature of the Thais? Those little touches are what make them unique. The wai is part of their culture, as is the friendly attitude. That was part of the attraction.

[MissAndry]

But for some reason I don't care, start living more in my own environment and do not expect too much service anymore in any place, if I do get it I am pleasantly surprised. And will visit the place again until they start changing to the lazy mode.

Customer service and politeness in London is exceptional.

When I moved to CM last month I was amazed how rude all the shop staff are.

In Tesco's Queensway, if ever there was a queue at the checkout, security would grab my basket and swipe me through the 'self service' tills.

Always a friendly comment and chat in EVERY shop, pub and coffee bar, and offers of help if I didn't appear entirely 'with it'.

Carry a big bag on the tube stairway, every time, someone would take it and carry it for me.

I couldn't imagine a more helpful and polite population anywhere else in the world.

[1FinickyOne]

Nancy and Chee - the type of friendliness and respect and gentleness is still alive out in the countryside. My spoken Thai is pretty good and I love engaging people and the reactions that I get... but I have been here a long time too. However, I just had a group of 5 people come from USA and stay in the local city for 4 days. They had a wonderful rapport with all the clerks and kids working and the ladies doing massage at the temple... and they have no thai... they had so much fun.

my guess would be that any bigger city living is stressful and takes its toll on that gentle traditional Thai attitude that you remember from the past. But even in CM, I have found that proceeding with a smile and light heart, maybe a joke here and there and that old school set of Thai ways returns quickly.

[Nowisee]

geez....

i understood what LawrenceChee meant - yes the tuk tuks are overpriced and can you believe how many Russians and Chinese fell for the 5K Bath latex pillow scheme/scam?

and i understood what NancyL meant.....even my wife who is Thai complains how Thai people are not as friendly and helpful here anymore...."getting more and more like Bangkok" she always says...nothing about imperialism or disrespect...

i'm sure others understood too but always looking for an argument every chance they get.

Since it's a US Holiday, I am going to agree with Oscar's posts on this matter. No one needs to bow down to me, or even call me "Sir." I do expect people to do the jobs they are being paid to do, at whatever wage, to do them in a civil manner. Grunting, and ignoring customers is impolite in any language. Again, it's the "soft bigots," who tell us to expect less than we would from other humans..."they are Thai."

I agree with Lawrence and Nancy, too, although the home improvement people leaving you alone is an improvement itself. But, I agree the good, classic places, that I would crave for, when in the States are more than slowly disappearing. As far as restaurants and bars..the number has been cut in half in only a few years. Too many "brain dead" staff, when a few caring, competent ones would be fine. Places getting squeezed on rent. Owners with obvious gambling debts. And don't get me started on warm, old beer in a dirty glass...it's much more of a standard and not an exception. I know of one place in the entire province that will consistently do a beer right, and that is my LG refrigerator in my 20K USD condo.

A few Saturday evenings ago, I did about a 5 Km walk through Su Thep. I did not see one place that was worth stopping at for a casual beer. I just about decided that I would move to Bangkok and leave the Chines to enjoy Lanna slowness and underachievement. Chiang Mai will always be a special place, but I'm tired of dealing with bullcrap.

Increasing prices just to increase prices without giving more value is a sure way to lose customer base... that is what is happening in many places here. Restaurants, condos, guesthouses, etc.

The smart places are maintaining their prices for their customer base and continuing to be good successful businesses.

The greedy businesses are losing out and ultimately losing... and good for them, they deserve to die.

Most of the staff and employees in the basic business segment don't have the skills to provide basic customer service. As someone said... brain dead.

Burn something and serving it is common. Cross contamination, poor food handling skills and making people sicking sadly common place.

I've seen quite a few places around where I live close. I admit I don't know why. One thing for sure is they raise prices on the farang.

I do know the places that have been consistent with their quality, quantity, prices (regardless of farang or thai) and service are still doing very well and they deserve that.

I'd have to agree with KKK, there are few good places to enjoy around here... in contrast to my last visit to Saigon... I had a great time, good people, good service, good product.

This is just my opinion. Time and observation will tell.

[whatsupdoc]

geez....

i understood what LawrenceChee meant - yes the tuk tuks are overpriced and can you believe how many Russians and Chinese fell for the 5K Bath latex pillow scheme/scam?

and i understood what NancyL meant.....even my wife who is Thai complains how Thai people are not as friendly and helpful here anymore...."getting more and more like Bangkok" she always says...nothing about imperialism or disrespect...

i'm sure others understood too but always looking for an argument every chance they get.

Since it's a US Holiday, I am going to agree with Oscar's posts on this matter. No one needs to bow down to me, or even call me "Sir." I do expect people to do the jobs they are being paid to do, at whatever wage, to do them in a civil manner. Grunting, and ignoring customers is impolite in any language. Again, it's the "soft bigots," who tell us to expect less than we would from other humans..."they are Thai."

I agree with Lawrence and Nancy, too, although the home improvement people leaving you alone is an improvement itself. But, I agree the good, classic places, that I would crave for, when in the States are more than slowly disappearing. As far as restaurants and bars..the number has been cut in half in only a few years. Too many "brain dead" staff, when a few caring, competent ones would be fine. Places getting squeezed on rent. Owners with obvious gambling debts. And don't get me started on warm, old beer in a dirty glass...it's much more of a standard and not an exception. I know of one place in the entire province that will consistently do a beer right, and that is my LG refrigerator in my 20K USD condo.

A few Saturday evenings ago, I did about a 5 Km walk through Su Thep. I did not see one place that was worth stopping at for a casual beer. I just about decided that I would move to Bangkok and leave the Chines to enjoy Lanna slowness and underachievement. Chiang Mai will always be a special place, but I'm tired of dealing with bullcrap.

Increasing prices just to increase prices without giving more value is a sure way to lose customer base... that is what is happening in many places here. Restaurants, condos, guesthouses, etc.

The smart places are maintaining their prices for their customer base and continuing to be good successful businesses.

The greedy businesses are losing out and ultimately losing... and good for them, they deserve to die.

Most of the staff and employees in the basic business segment don't have the skills to provide basic customer service. As someone said... brain dead.

Burn something and serving it is common. Cross contamination, poor food handling skills and making people sicking sadly common place.

I've seen quite a few places around where I live close. I admit I don't know why. One thing for sure is they raise prices on the farang.

I do know the places that have been consistent with their quality, quantity, prices (regardless of farang or thai) and service are still doing very well and they deserve that.

I'd have to agree with KKK, there are few good places to enjoy around here... in contrast to my last visit to Saigon... I had a great time, good people, good service, good product.

This is just my opinion. Time and observation will tell.

Or could it just be that restaurants increase their prices because rent, wages and ingredients all went up in price?

It is quite normal for prices to go up over time, it doesn't necessarily have to do with greed..

[moe666]

Get over it folks things arechangeing every where, why do you think most of the people who voted to leave the euro union where typically over 45 years old, old people do not like change. I got over the poor service here years ago, MOST of the Service People do not SPEAK ENGLISH gosh how are they going to talk to you and give you award winning service.

[LawrenceChee]

I'm only 41 and don't think I'm old :-)

In this fast pace world and I am guilty living that way in the fast paced business environment and cut throat business...I really chose Chiangmai as a home base because a few years ago when you returned home, you have this silly grin on your face knowing that your flight was the only one for the hour and you don't have to rush, immigration at the counters were all relaxed and when you fly out, you know there is only Black Canyon in the departure area ....

Now when yo return home and I have flown 75 times this year already...the lines is massive, you pray to god that your flight didn't land after a Chinese one as the visa on arrival will be filled to the brim and the traffic at the lanes outside and the taxi queues is running so fast it makes the bangkok taxi queue system with the printer and the unit there looks calm in relative terms....

my ride into town used to 120 baht and now its 250 baht...all still cheap in relative to NY or London...but we lost all these in a span of 5 years ....so it does get one worried.

I have driven as far as Mae on and beyond to look for a new retirement plot of land with the missus and hope that it wont spread beyond the 3rd ring road...

[MissAndry]

my ride into town used to 120 baht and now its 250 baht..

I think you were ripped off, they only charged me 150bht.

[Atum]

typical American attitude to the natives why are they not treating my like royalty after all im a bigoted white American,with more money than you,i deserve respect and first class service, TIT.its there country and its you who should be giving them respect,

Your attitude is incredibly arrogant! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Also, you contribute NOTHING to the topic.

[CMKiwi]

I'm not too sure where Trueblue is trying to get his self righteous jollies from. What Lawrence and Nancy were simply pointing out is how things have changed.

It's nothing to do with perceived individual status of us vs them. Crickey get a life man!

I would agree that service overall has taken a dive. And if having too many staff in a business where most of these young 'uns have their noses buried in their "smart" phones is progress....then I believe they are backing a failure.

It's not about old vs young either. It's about what is expected from service provider. If the staff aren't up to it then it behoves the employer / company to either 're - educate' the individuals or get someone whom wants to excel in their field.

Call this a rant if you must but I do get very tired of these people who take every opportunity to pass blame when a fault is pointed out.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious if an individual is being condicending towards workers/staff or labourers. This is not the case here.

Problem solving..... identify the problem, identify the cause, identify appropriate solutions and impliment them. Monitor.

[Oscar2]

the traffic here now is really a killer for me. i used to really enjoy getting out and doing things each and every day. now i dread going to certain areas at certain times of the day, trying to find a place to park, etc. i went into into town 4 times in the last few days and needed to come back to Sansai by early evening as i had business. 4 days, each day averaging 65 minutes to get back (i've tried every route imaginable). i mean it's pretty much like Bangkok. i hate this change in particular.

prices? well they do go up everywhere in the world. but quite a number of things are up here 100% in the last few years. it's simply greed.

everywhere changes, but this is too much, too fast.

[true blue]

typical American attitude to the natives why are they not treating my like royalty after all im a bigoted white American,with more money than you,i deserve respect and first class service, TIT.its there country and its you who should be giving them respect,

Your attitude is incredibly arrogant! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Also, you contribute NOTHING to the topic.

thank you for your nice compliements made my day/week,appreciate that keep the kudos coming.

[Atum]

typical American attitude to the natives why are they not treating my like royalty after all im a bigoted white American,with more money than you,i deserve respect and first class service, TIT.its there country and its you who should be giving them respect,

Your attitude is incredibly arrogant! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Also, you contribute NOTHING to the topic.

thank you for your nice compliements made my day/week,appreciate that keep the kudos coming.

I made your week?? You belong in Suan Prung Hospital.

[Torrens54]

No, he's right. There's been a change just in the past five years. Everything has become much more busy. Little touches of service have disappeared. Small stuff, but it adds up. For the most part, they no longer put your bags into your cart at Tops. The cashiers at Rim Ping often don't give that pretty little wai when they hand you your change. (The cashiers at Tops always were a little lazy about this).

When you go into the TV or household goods area of Central Dept store you can wander for hours and no one hovers, pointing to the item you're looking at making "helpful" observations like "blue" or "on-off". This used to annoy me, but now I miss it. The other day we went to Power Buy (part of the Central group) to purchase a clothes washing machine, same thing where Hubby and wandered around the store looking at every clothes washer (it should have been evident we were serious shoppers) and when we finally found someone who would make eye contact they had to go find the store manager to locate someone able to understand our poor attempts at Thai. Apparently he was the only one in the store who spoke English. Used to be more staff in places like this spoke English or at least made an attempt.

It's as if everyone is busier, more adsorbed in their phones, maybe studying Chinese now instead of English. I don't know. But there's definitely a different vibe.

Pretty accurate assessment of the situation Nancy.

My wife and I have noted the frequent lack of a friendly "Wai," at a number of places where it used to be a matter of course. Rimping and Makro in particular.

When my wife phoned Tesco Lotus in BKK last week, to inquire about when a particular "advertised product" would again be stocked in the Hang Dong Road store,(they've been out of stock of "Tesco Finest, Indian Curry Paste" for 6 weeks) shew was told in Thai that, "if we are out of stock, we are OUT OF STOCK!"

Yesterday we went to MK for lunch. Noticed a lack of staff, certainly no one to refill our drinks, as they used to. I had Dim Sum and noted the increase in price from a few months ago. I also filled out a "Customer Comment Slip," as I started doing some TEN Years ago, asking if they could provide HOI SIN Sauce with the Dim Sum. No one has ever bothered to respond to these requests, so for some years I have been bringing MY OWN.... half expect to be charged "Corkage" one of these days.

[happy Joe]

Chiang Mai changed, period.

But I guess all places change.

I have to admit Chiang mai did not get better over the years.

Traffic sucks, Nightlife is ruined.

Prices are up.

People don't seem as friendly anymore as 15 years ago when I first came here.

But for some reason I don't care, start living more in my own environment and do not expect too much service anymore in any place, if I do get it I am pleasantly surprised. And will visit the place again until they start changing to the lazy mode.

Works well for me, still like it here.

I Would not know a good alternative either.

Like you, I am happy in my village (Sansai), I essentially socializes with my lovely Thai neighbors, I order on Ali or Lazada and I go to Chiang Mai mainly for food shopping at Makro and Rimping.

The reasons are not increasing prices but the atmosphere evolving in a clean preppy way that does not correspond to my dream of the tropics.

[streetsweeper]

I'm not too sure where Trueblue is trying to get his self righteous jollies from. What Lawrence and Nancy were simply pointing out is how things have changed.

It's nothing to do with perceived individual status of us vs them. Crickey get a life man!

I would agree that service overall has taken a dive. And if having too many staff in a business where most of these young 'uns have their noses buried in their "smart" phones is progress....then I believe they are backing a failure.

It's not about old vs young either. It's about what is expected from service provider. If the staff aren't up to it then it behoves the employer / company to either 're - educate' the individuals or get someone whom wants to excel in their field.

Call this a rant if you must but I do get very tired of these people who take every opportunity to pass blame when a fault is pointed out.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious if an individual is being condicending towards workers/staff or labourers. This is not the case here.

Problem solving..... identify the problem, identify the cause, identify appropriate solutions and impliment them. Monitor.

My God man, get a life that steers you away from Thai Visa Forums! Your sense of self-importance is way over the top. Your writing skills have deteriorated dramatically over the last short while and your messages are most often logic-garbled making you appear that you may in fact be writing after a spurt of imbibing.

[CMKiwi]

I'm not too sure where Trueblue is trying to get his self righteous jollies from. What Lawrence and Nancy were simply pointing out is how things have changed.

It's nothing to do with perceived individual status of us vs them. Crickey get a life man!

I would agree that service overall has taken a dive. And if having too many staff in a business where most of these young 'uns have their noses buried in their "smart" phones is progress....then I believe they are backing a failure.

It's not about old vs young either. It's about what is expected from service provider. If the staff aren't up to it then it behoves the employer / company to either 're - educate' the individuals or get someone whom wants to excel in their field.

Call this a rant if you must but I do get very tired of these people who take every opportunity to pass blame when a fault is pointed out.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious if an individual is being condicending towards workers/staff or labourers. This is not the case here.

Problem solving..... identify the problem, identify the cause, identify appropriate solutions and impliment them. Monitor.

My God man, get a life that steers you away from Thai Visa Forums! Your sense of self-importance is way over the top. Your writing skills have deteriorated dramatically over the last short while and your messages are most often logic-garbled making you appear that you may in fact be writing after a spurt of imbibing.

Wrong on all counts. And you are??? Stick with your avatar name, yes I am now being condescending.

[Sandy Freckle]

Unfortunately and increasingly, this is the way things are heading.
And a side issue of people posting commentary re: changes that affect us all...., is that replies are posted from 'other' people who purposefully choose to 'dis' and flame commentators for their comments.
Why do so many people these days seemingly choose to respond to commentary posts with (seemingly default) agro and abusive intent ?

[1FinickyOne]

Lawrence - I think part of the issue you are having is due to the worldwide population increases... and when you look at all these condo units being built when lat years have not been sold, I think that is what the builders are seeing too... add in that China is nearby and has a growing middle class and this becomes a cheap place to visit and live too...

You are in a bit of a bind in needing an airport nearby.

[MissAndry]

Lawrence - I think part of the issue you are having is due to the worldwide population increases... and when you look at all these condo units being built when lat years have not been sold, I think that is what the builders are seeing too... add in that China is nearby and has a growing middle class and this becomes a cheap place to visit and live too...

You are in a bit of a bind in needing an airport nearby.

The Thai population (and the British population, along with most western countries) are decreasing.

You post is not relevant to either country. Maybe if we were in India or China, but we aren't.

Can't really understand why anyone would think a population increase on another continent affects anything here?

Can you help me out with this?

[Gonzo the Face]

Lawrence - I think part of the issue you are having is due to the worldwide population increases... and when you look at all these condo units being built when lat years have not been sold, I think that is what the builders are seeing too... add in that China is nearby and has a growing middle class and this becomes a cheap place to visit and live too...

You are in a bit of a bind in needing an airport nearby.

The Thai population (and the British population, along with most western countries) are decreasing.

You post is not relevant to either country. Maybe if we were in India or China, but we aren't.

Can't really understand why anyone would think a population increase on another continent affects anything here?

Can you help me out with this?

With almost 500 posts in a month, you cannot be serious with this statement ????????

[garryjohns]

Lawrence - I think part of the issue you are having is due to the worldwide population increases... and when you look at all these condo units being built when lat years have not been sold, I think that is what the builders are seeing too... add in that China is nearby and has a growing middle class and this becomes a cheap place to visit and live too...

You are in a bit of a bind in needing an airport nearby.

The Thai population (and the British population, along with most western countries) are decreasing.

You post is not relevant to either country. Maybe if we were in India or China, but we aren't.

Can't really understand why anyone would think a population increase on another continent affects anything here?

Can you help me out with this?

Both Thai and British populations are in fact increasing,albeit not hugely

As for the 2nd paragraph?..Gonzo has that already covered.

[Teak]

Service to the non Thai speakers has always been challenging in CM and beyond. In the 'old days' you would sit down in a restaurant and use your best Thai language skills to order. The waitress would dutifully take your order with a cute wai and off to the kitchen. After a half hour you are no longer able to be noticed and your waitress had disappeared into the back. They simply did not understand you and hoped you had the grace to simply leave. It was either the Bier Stubbe or correct your pronunciation. Not that hard to receive good service from someone that can actually understand you in their own country.

People seem to miss the Wai...maybe the people giving the Wai never received a reply.

The Wai is a tricky business...how high to reply ? There could be endless discussions on wai etiquette. Who goes first, how high...oh no, mine was higher than his, or mine was lower...but, I know he is more connected than myself and he deserved a higher wai. A wai can be given, but not retracted :-) But, to give a wai too high makes you look foolish. :-(

If you go to the same place often, try a simple dip of the head and a 'kawp' . Doesn't take much to connect.

As for CM...it has always been a place to get drunk, laid and get out. Still good for that.

.....Ken

[Mark123456]

I'm not too sure where Trueblue is trying to get his self righteous jollies from. What Lawrence and Nancy were simply pointing out is how things have changed.

It's nothing to do with perceived individual status of us vs them. Crickey get a life man!

I would agree that service overall has taken a dive. And if having too many staff in a business where most of these young 'uns have their noses buried in their "smart" phones is progress....then I believe they are backing a failure.

It's not about old vs young either. It's about what is expected from service provider. If the staff aren't up to it then it behoves the employer / company to either 're - educate' the individuals or get someone whom wants to excel in their field.

Call this a rant if you must but I do get very tired of these people who take every opportunity to pass blame when a fault is pointed out.

Sometimes it is clearly obvious if an individual is being condicending towards workers/staff or labourers. This is not the case here.

Problem solving..... identify the problem, identify the cause, identify appropriate solutions and impliment them. Monitor.

My God man, get a life that steers you away from Thai Visa Forums! Your sense of self-importance is way over the top. Your writing skills have deteriorated dramatically over the last short while and your messages are most often logic-garbled making you appear that you may in fact be writing after a spurt of imbibing.

Wrong on all counts. And you are??? Stick with your avatar name, yes I am now being condescending.

He's right about your writing though: it's "someone who wants to excel in their field", not 'whom'.

[hml367]

Service to the non Thai speakers has always been challenging in CM and beyond. In the 'old days' you would sit down in a restaurant and use your best Thai language skills to order. The waitress would dutifully take your order with a cute wai and off to the kitchen. After a half hour you are no longer able to be noticed and your waitress had disappeared into the back. They simply did not understand you and hoped you had the grace to simply leave. It was either the Bier Stubbe or correct your pronunciation. Not that hard to receive good service from someone that can actually understand you in their own country.

People seem to miss the Wai...maybe the people giving the Wai never received a reply.

The Wai is a tricky business...how high to reply ? There could be endless discussions on wai etiquette. Who goes first, how high...oh no, mine was higher than his, or mine was lower...but, I know he is more connected than myself and he deserved a higher wai. A wai can be given, but not retracted :-) But, to give a wai too high makes you look foolish. :-(

If you go to the same place often, try a simple dip of the head and a 'kawp' . Doesn't take much to connect.

As for CM...it has always been a place to get drunk, laid and get out. Still good for that.

.....Ken

When were thes "old days" ? That could mean a lot of different things to people on Thai Visa forums.

For myself, I cannot recall ever being completely ignored as some people have posted about in this topic. I have had something delivered in a restaurant that is not what I expected. I believe it has always been my fault in the language part of the order.

I also feel a bit different than "they should speak English to me" in any situation in Thailand. I try my best to communicate, and often I am not able. Then I excuse myself from the situation. I don't recall ever that the Thai person has disappeared.

I am just adding my experience..... I am not arguing the point. There are different experiences for sure. I believe many times a person's attitude can effect the perspective.

[MissAndry]

With almost 500 posts in a month, you cannot be serious with this statement ????????

Of which 450 were in Brexit topics.

Wondering why someone would make a personal attack on a complete stranger, seems odd, as well as incredibly rude.

Have I offended you while you were posting under a different username?

[Jdiddy]

25-30baht/kg rambutans and mangosteens and 30 baht drinking coconuts seem to be a thing of the past this season ive noticed

[Oscar2]

With almost 500 posts in a month, you cannot be serious with this statement ????????

Of which 450 were in Brexit topics.

Wondering why someone would make a personal attack on a complete stranger, seems odd, as well as incredibly rude.

Have I offended you while you were posting under a different username?

possibly you offended him while you were using one of your many usernames?

[Mark123456]

With almost 500 posts in a month, you cannot be serious with this statement ????????

Of which 450 were in Brexit topics.

Wondering why someone would make a personal attack on a complete stranger, seems odd, as well as incredibly rude.

Have I offended you while you were posting under a different username?

I think the fact you seem unaware Thailand, China, and India are all on the same continent has surprised many posters. Someone with your vast intellect and undoubtedly superior education, when compared to the run-of-the-mill plebs that frequent this forum, would have been expected to be acquainted with such facts. Speaking for myself, I feel let down as I have tended to worship you in the past: you seem to think you are better than everybody else and I naturally believed you.