Crackdown on Phuket condo owners confirmed

[spidermike007]

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

[spidermike007]

Something fishy going on here. "in fact close to 100,000 rooms in the province that are being operated like hotels "

There are only 17 pages on Airbnb around 340 rooms, so where do they get the 100k rooms from? And how do those people advertise them? Real estate agents wouldn't be interested in nightly or weekly rentals, to much effort for a small commission . Im starting to think they would be mostly Thais or the chubby smiling guy is telling us porkies

As usual, they are making it up, as they go along. A hotel association, with deep pockets, and well connected members asked them to say that. They will say anything they are asked.

[mcfish]

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

Dont think you have read all the posts. Its going to benefit the other condo owners who bought into a home and not a short time hotel. Its already banned in Bangkok and soon to be Nation wide

[Mysterion]

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

It benefits the people who bought condominiums for legal personal use or for those owners legally leasing them out long-term. It will also benefit the hotels that are legally hotels.

[NamKangMan]

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

Dont think you have read all the posts. Its going to benefit the other condo owners who bought into a home and not a short time hotel. Its already banned in Bangkok and soon to be Nation wide

So, you are effectively saying the are putting the brakes on property investors here, by only allowing the owner to occupy, or leases greater than 1 month, which does not suit the majority of tourists.

That's not great news for the property industry.

I would like to see the stats on investment properties to owner occupied properties on Phuket.

[mcfish]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

[impulse]

 

Been going on for years. Wonder why the crackdown now?

Many wrongs have been going on for years and even decades that past elected governments did not fix.

But this government has started fixing issues since two years ago.

That is an amusing post. What are they actually fixing? What has really improved?

How is restricting the renting of condos as daily rentals going to benefit anyone but the hotel owners? Please explain to me, the benefits you see coming from this administration.

Dont think you have read all the posts. Its going to benefit the other condo owners who bought into a home and not a short time hotel. Its already banned in Bangkok and soon to be Nation wide

So, you are effectively saying the are putting the brakes on property investors here, by only allowing the owner to occupy, or leases greater than 1 month, which does not suit the majority of tourists.

That's not great news for the property industry.

I would like to see the stats on investment properties to owner occupied properties on Phuket.

 

I'd agree with you completely of they were passing new rules. But they're enforcing rules that have always been on the books.

Still, I hope they have the compassion to re-evaluate the rules and find ways to keep anyone from taking a financial shellacking.

Maybe a condo swap program where residents can freely swap their condos with investors whose buildings register and go hotel... Just a brain fart. I'm sure smarter (and more vested) people than me can come up with some better ideas.

[NamKangMan]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

Are you taking into account Agoda, and similar websites?

[impulse]

 

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

 

Could just be an indication that AirBNB is a tiny part of the big picture. I can envision hundreds of Chinese officials hiding their ill gotten gains in Thai condos, then renting them out for zero dollar tours through Chinese travel agencies, without ever darkening the door of their property (or paying a dime to AirBNB or anyone Thai).

They could be nipping something in the bud here that we can't even foresee- much less appreciate the benefit of.

[NamKangMan]

@ impluse

It was always my prediction that certain property owners would be left "holding the can" here. It was not if, just when.

This is another step towards that, at a time when Phuket needs all the foreign investment it can get.

Probably some HiSo Thai hotel / resort owners are starting to see profits drop, and see this as a way to increase business, so complained.

I understand many expats living here in condos are happy with this "crackdown" however, if the owner has moved on from Phuket, and can not sell their condo, despite it being on the market for years, and is using some short term rental to cover costs, what's stopping the owner from walking away for their condo completely, and not contributing to management fees, maintenance, insurance etc etc?

Wouldn't all condo owners in the block want all owners to contribute, thus lowering the price for all?

[mcfish]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

Are you taking into account Agoda, and similar websites?

Agoda has 2400 hotels and rooms on their Phuket website. let say another 5 websites have the same thats still only 12,000 hotels and rooms and lets say half are condo rooms thats 6000

So where do the other 94000 rooms come from?

These are just crazy rough figures but something is amiss

[NamKangMan]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

Are you taking into account Agoda, and similar websites?

Agoda has 2400 hotels and rooms on their Phuket website. let say another 5 websites have the same thats still only 12,000 hotels and rooms and lets say half are condo rooms thats 6000

So where do the other 94000 rooms come from?

These are just crazy rough figures but something is amiss

"Phuket officially has about 50,000 hotel rooms but we know that there are in fact close to 100,000 rooms in the province that are being operated like hotels through rentals on a daily basis,” said the vice governor."

They are saying there are about 50,000 rooms operating illegally.

I agree, the figures are inflated, but you can't have a "crackdown" without inflated figures.

[impulse]

@ impluse

It was always my prediction that certain property owners would be left "holding the can" here. It was not if, just when.

This is another step towards that, at a time when Phuket needs all the foreign investment it can get.

I don't disagree with you there. But anyone who sees dozens of building cranes in the midst of a running ton of unoccupied condos has just bought into a bubble. You can put off the reckoning, suck in another few thousand investors and give others time to cash out. But there will be a reckoning.

My disaster forecast is when Chinese investors buy huge blocks of condos in selected projects (many through nominees) to concentrate them and make it easy for the Chinese owned (through nominees) tour buses to drop off their charges from the Chinese owned chartered flight they just deplaned at the airport.

Not much $$ left for the struggling local Thais in that scenario. And, what do you figure your chances of selling at a decent price would be in that building?

[stevenl]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

Are you taking into account Agoda, and similar websites?

Agoda has 2400 hotels and rooms on their Phuket website. let say another 5 websites have the same thats still only 12,000 hotels and rooms and lets say half are condo rooms thats 6000

So where do the other 94000 rooms come from?

These are just crazy rough figures but something is amiss

Did you include the illegal hotels and guesthouses?

[mcfish]

You can get an idea from Air BNB stats a few posts back 340 rooms all up for rent. I think the 100K rooms mentioned is pure fantasy

Are you taking into account Agoda, and similar websites?

Agoda has 2400 hotels and rooms on their Phuket website. let say another 5 websites have the same thats still only 12,000 hotels and rooms and lets say half are condo rooms thats 6000

So where do the other 94000 rooms come from?

These are just crazy rough figures but something is amiss

Did you include the illegal hotels and guesthouses?

Impossible to know. I give up..

[KittenKong]

So, you are effectively saying the are putting the brakes on property investors here, by only allowing the owner to occupy, or leases greater than 1 month, which does not suit the majority of tourists.

That's not great news for the property industry.

I would like to see the stats on investment properties to owner occupied properties on Phuket.

Personally I dont give a flying XXXX about the property industry here, or about the idiots who thought it was a good thing to invest in.

I only care about peace and quiet in my building and eliminating the massive extra wear and tear that results from short-term rentals and which doesnt benefit the building or resident co-owners at all. So the more regulation the better as far as I'm concerned.

[KittenKong]

I understand many expats living here in condos are happy with this "crackdown" however, if the owner has moved on from Phuket, and can not sell their condo, despite it being on the market for years, and is using some short term rental to cover costs, what's stopping the owner from walking away for their condo completely, and not contributing to management fees, maintenance, insurance etc etc?

Wouldn't all condo owners in the block want all owners to contribute, thus lowering the price for all?

Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees, regardless of whether they use their unit or not. These fees are billed regularly and continue to mount up, with an added large interest penalty every month after a few months of non-payment.

Delinquent owners can be barred from common areas and can have their water cut off. Their unit cannot be sold until all bills are settled. In extreme cases an application can be made to the court to sell the unit and recover the oustanding fees.

[Mysterion]

Poll-

If the "crackdown" on short-term/daily rentals was truly enforced in Phuket, what would be the impact on condominium sale prices in Phuket?

A- not a significant impact

B- up to 10% decline

C- 10%-20% decline

D- more than 20% decline

E- and increase in prices

My guess is D.

What are your thoughts?

[stevenl]

Poll-

If the "crackdown" on short-term/daily rentals was truly enforced in Phuket, what would be the impact on condominium sale prices in Phuket?

A- not a significant impact

B- up to 10% decline

C- 10%-20% decline

D- more than 20% decline

E- and increase in prices

My guess is D.

What are your thoughts?

A, this is just a small part of the market.

[mcfish]

Poll-

If the "crackdown" on short-term/daily rentals was truly enforced in Phuket, what would be the impact on condominium sale prices in Phuket?

A- not a significant impact

B- up to 10% decline

C- 10%-20% decline

D- more than 20% decline

E- and increase in prices

My guess is D.

What are your thoughts?

A, this is just a small part of the market.

+1 I dont think that many farang condos are involved. Probably the Thais running illegal guesthouses would just register and pay tax

[ozyjon]

They will never find me,,

www.airbnb.com

if i can find you,, so can they !

[NamKangMan]

So, you are effectively saying the are putting the brakes on property investors here, by only allowing the owner to occupy, or leases greater than 1 month, which does not suit the majority of tourists.

That's not great news for the property industry.

I would like to see the stats on investment properties to owner occupied properties on Phuket.

Personally I dont give a flying XXXX about the property industry here, or about the idiots who thought it was a good thing to invest in.

I only care about peace and quiet in my building and eliminating the massive extra wear and tear that results from short-term rentals and which doesnt benefit the building or resident co-owners at all. So the more regulation the better as far as I'm concerned.

I rent here, so couldn't really couldn't care less either.

However, as mentioned in Post 130, what could / would happen to your condo block, if / when co-owners simply walk away, because the condo can no longer pay its way, and they can't sell it?

[NamKangMan]

I understand many expats living here in condos are happy with this "crackdown" however, if the owner has moved on from Phuket, and can not sell their condo, despite it being on the market for years, and is using some short term rental to cover costs, what's stopping the owner from walking away for their condo completely, and not contributing to management fees, maintenance, insurance etc etc?

Wouldn't all condo owners in the block want all owners to contribute, thus lowering the price for all?

Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees, regardless of whether they use their unit or not. These fees are billed regularly and continue to mount up, with an added large interest penalty every month after a few months of non-payment.

Delinquent owners can be barred from common areas and can have their water cut off. Their unit cannot be sold until all bills are settled. In extreme cases an application can be made to the court to sell the unit and recover the oustanding fees.

"Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees" - I think you missed the part where I said "they COMPLETELY walk away." Similar to a business going into receivership.

Where are you going to send the bill, and how will payment be enforced?

Basically, the owner no longer wants to live on Phuket, can't sell the condo, can't rent the condo so it pays its way, so walks away.

The arrears bills can not be taken out of the forced sale of the condo if it doesn't sell.

There's been properties on the market here for years. Say they sell the condo at a real fire sale price, just to recoup the outstanding bills, what type of cheap charlie buyers, who will become your neighbors, do you think this would attract?

Get it?

[mcfish]

I understand many expats living here in condos are happy with this "crackdown" however, if the owner has moved on from Phuket, and can not sell their condo, despite it being on the market for years, and is using some short term rental to cover costs, what's stopping the owner from walking away for their condo completely, and not contributing to management fees, maintenance, insurance etc etc?

Wouldn't all condo owners in the block want all owners to contribute, thus lowering the price for all?

Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees, regardless of whether they use their unit or not. These fees are billed regularly and continue to mount up, with an added large interest penalty every month after a few months of non-payment.

Delinquent owners can be barred from common areas and can have their water cut off. Their unit cannot be sold until all bills are settled. In extreme cases an application can be made to the court to sell the unit and recover the oustanding fees.

"Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees" - I think you missed the part where I said "they COMPLETELY walk away." Similar to a business going into receivership.

Where are you going to send the bill, and how will payment be enforced?

Basically, the owner no longer wants to live on Phuket, can't sell the condo, can't rent the condo so it pays its way, so walks away.

The arrears bills can not be taken out of the forced sale of the condo if it doesn't sell.

There's been properties on the market here for years. Say they sell the condo at a real fire sale price, just to recoup the outstanding bills, what type of cheap charlie buyers, who will become your neighbors, do you think this would attract?

Get it?

You dont need to be a football hooligan to smash out a good deal. Its usually the smart types that accumulate deep discount properties

Your pushing a strange angle for your argument

[NamKangMan]

Poll-

If the "crackdown" on short-term/daily rentals was truly enforced in Phuket, what would be the impact on condominium sale prices in Phuket?

A- not a significant impact

B- up to 10% decline

C- 10%-20% decline

D- more than 20% decline

E- and increase in prices

My guess is D.

What are your thoughts?

I would suggest there would be some distressed sales in the immediate future, followed by more condos going onto the market for sale, which would put downward pressure on prices, in an already stagnant market.

Your post talks of percentage decreases in sale price, but the properties would have to sell first, before a decline can be realized.

Property is not moving on Phuket, hence, I have put forward to the forum the possibility of condo owners eventually just walking away. Much the same as a bar owner walks away.

That said, I can't see the authorities being able to abolish this form of short term rental on Phuket anytime soon.

[NamKangMan]

I understand many expats living here in condos are happy with this "crackdown" however, if the owner has moved on from Phuket, and can not sell their condo, despite it being on the market for years, and is using some short term rental to cover costs, what's stopping the owner from walking away for their condo completely, and not contributing to management fees, maintenance, insurance etc etc?

Wouldn't all condo owners in the block want all owners to contribute, thus lowering the price for all?

Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees, regardless of whether they use their unit or not. These fees are billed regularly and continue to mount up, with an added large interest penalty every month after a few months of non-payment.

Delinquent owners can be barred from common areas and can have their water cut off. Their unit cannot be sold until all bills are settled. In extreme cases an application can be made to the court to sell the unit and recover the oustanding fees.

"Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees" - I think you missed the part where I said "they COMPLETELY walk away." Similar to a business going into receivership.

Where are you going to send the bill, and how will payment be enforced?

Basically, the owner no longer wants to live on Phuket, can't sell the condo, can't rent the condo so it pays its way, so walks away.

The arrears bills can not be taken out of the forced sale of the condo if it doesn't sell.

There's been properties on the market here for years. Say they sell the condo at a real fire sale price, just to recoup the outstanding bills, what type of cheap charlie buyers, who will become your neighbors, do you think this would attract?

Get it?

You dont need to be a football hooligan to smash out a good deal. Its usually the smart types that accumulate deep discount properties

Your pushing a strange angle for your argument

It's the same as tourism here.

The TAT seek out "high end" tourists, yet, the majority of tourists to Phuket are cheap package holiday Chinese.

Send the property market into free fall on Phuket, and all you will attract are "low end" buyers - cheap charlie expats.

Once again, devaluing the Phuket brand.

[Pinot]

Lot of different thoughts here but I think we can say, enforcement of this law is going to send the prices of condos lower, maybe a lot lower.

I hope it stops the development.

[ozyjon]

You could do it the old fashion way.

[KittenKong]

I rent here, so couldn't really couldn't care less either.

However, as mentioned in Post 130, what could / would happen to your condo block, if / when co-owners simply walk away, because the condo can no longer pay its way, and they can't sell it?

The building would apply to the court to have the unit sold, as I mentioned.

I think that you should care even if you rent. Short-term tenants are rarely good neighbours and they overuse the facilities that you pay rent to enjoy.

[KittenKong]

"Co-owners cannot just walk away from their common fees" - I think you missed the part where I said "they COMPLETELY walk away." Similar to a business going into receivership.

Where are you going to send the bill, and how will payment be enforced?

Basically, the owner no longer wants to live on Phuket, can't sell the condo, can't rent the condo so it pays its way, so walks away.

The arrears bills can not be taken out of the forced sale of the condo if it doesn't sell.

There's been properties on the market here for years. Say they sell the condo at a real fire sale price, just to recoup the outstanding bills, what type of cheap charlie buyers, who will become your neighbors, do you think this would attract?

Get it?

In this situation the unit would be sold by the court. Whilst the price might be lower than average I dont think that this would have a significant impact as nearly all owners would rather sell at any price themselves than walk away and lose the lot. The only reason that property stays on the market for years is because it is overpriced.

I dont think that the real cheap Charlies have the money to buy a condo, even at 30% of current prices, and I dont see huge ghettos forming as a result of mass abandonment of units. I could be wrong though. If if does happen in my building I will either sell fast or simply abandon my own unit and leave it to the cheap Charlies also. Unlike some I have no faith in Thailand and so I only spent a tiny proportion of my money on property here.